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Greetings and welcome back to another episode of Q Points podcast,

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dropping the needle on black music history.

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I am DJ Sir Daniel, and my.

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Name is J Ray, sometimes known by my government as Johnny Ray Korngay

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III.

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What's happening, people?

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Well, I can tell you what's happening, J Ray P.

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Diddy is.

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To say that he's in trouble is an understatement.

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We're now 120 more allegations deep, and the saga just continues.

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More artists that he's worked with are coming out with their own

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tales of working with him.

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But you know what?

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You and I were having a conversation about a.

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A video that we recently saw featuring Johnny Gill.

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Yes, and Johnny Gill, of course, we know.

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Iconic, legendary vocalist, member of Lavert sweating.

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Gill, also a member of new edition, of course, was reflecting

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on his time and new edition's time working with Diddy on Bad boy.

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And you and I looked at each other like, that's right.

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I completely forgot about that.

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Yeah, that was a perfect.

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That was a moment in time.

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It's wild when you think about it now, one that it was that many

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years.

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So that is the 20th anniversary of the release of New

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Edition's album on Bad Boy, which was called One Love.

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It was their 7th album, released in November of 2004.

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So we're really coming up on it on the Bad boy universal.

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We got a lot to talk about there leading up to this record.

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But you know, what's interesting about this album, for

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me, personally, Sir Daniel and I do want to have us get into what

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Johnny Gill said.

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What's interesting for me, though, about this album is I literally

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forgot.

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So there was home again.

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Yes.

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And then there was one love in my mind.

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They were the same out.

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Same, same J ray, same.

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I was like, so that wasn't on hot tonight, wasn't on the home again.

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Oh.

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Huh.

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I literally said the same thing, and I figured out why we feel

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this way, sir Daniel, the reason why we feel this way, and

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this speaks to kind of the omnipresence of bad boy in that era

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between, like, 96 and, like, the early two thousands, was that,

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of course, Diddy produced the single from the home again record.

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And for whatever reason, I merged these two things together

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and was like, oh, yeah, one love.

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Of course.

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That I remember.

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I remember the hot tonight that was on there, and I thought

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it was all six of them.

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And it wasn't until I was getting ready for this show, sir

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Daniel, where they were, like, only five members were in the group.

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And I'm like, no, that don't make no sense.

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It was six members in the group.

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It wasn't.

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This is a totally different record.

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It was not.

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It was supposed to be a celebration of new edition finally

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leaving MCA.

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Cause they had been with MCA for decades.

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Yes.

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They were finally leaving MCA.

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And they were also.

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They also got their masters.

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Big deal.

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Which is a huge deal for artists.

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You hear them talk about it to this day, about getting their masters,

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getting the original reel to reels, in their case.

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Yep.

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Of their recordings.

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They, like you said, they had not put an album out in seven years.

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So it just kind of felt like, you know, Diddy is Diddy and bad

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boy records.

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As you mentioned, J rate has been running things, for lack of

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a better term, for close to a decade now.

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They've had a great track run.

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They've had.

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They got this new deal with Universal Records, which that just

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was not a good era for bad boy, in my opinion, and clearly yours

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as well.

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But they actually signed a j ray in 2002.

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Yeah.

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Guess when the album finally came out, 2004.

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So there's a two year gap.

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There's two years of being in the studios.

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Yep.

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Two years of, I'm sure, photo shoots, two years of writing.

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And the only thing that I can think of, J Ray, is that they were

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just.

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There was too many chefs in the kitchen.

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Cause when you look at who was on the roster, as far as producers,

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J Ray and writers, first of all, new edition, of course, being

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the consummate performers that they are, are writing as well.

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This is not just.

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We're gonna sit here and let you know.

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This is a collaboration.

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Absolutely.

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They are new addition.

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They have had hit after hithenne as a group and solo.

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They are seasoned performers.

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So by then, new edition is 20 years into their career.

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They are veterans.

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They are.

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They are veterans.

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They are heads of state, in my opinion.

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And so, of course, the album roster of producers includes, you

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know, your Stevie J's.

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You got your.

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Now you got your Mario Winans, Ryan Leslie, who is a whole nother

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conversation.

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I'm great to say.

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That's like the long.

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That's a whole other long conversation.

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That's a whole nother conversation to have.

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Dre and Vidal and funny enough, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis

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were producers on this album as well.

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J Ray, that's a lot of chefs in the kitchen.

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That's a lot of chefs.

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And, of course, you know, so the thing about it, and I think it

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was Michael Bivens, it might have been Ricky Bell that talked

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about this at the time.

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Bad boy, of course, didn't really want.

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They weren't really keen on the Jimmy jam and Terry Lewis edition.

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So Jimmy and Terry only did, I think, two songs on this record,

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if I'm correct.

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Yeah, they did two songs on the record.

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And most of that was because I think, you know, budget wise, you

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know, Diddy wants to keep everything in house with the hitmen.

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Right, of course.

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But of course, we know that new edition is like, nah, like, our

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big bangers is this.

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We, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis.

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Like, that's magic right there.

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How are we not going to have a record with Jimmy Jam, have songs

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with Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis?

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But I do want us to talk a little bit about the moment in time

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that new edition are actually coming into bad boy, because I think

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that does cloud what happened to so in the early, the late nineties.

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So this is 2000 and beyond.

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Bad boy changes a lot.

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So by 2002, when new edition signed to the head, all the original

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kind of the ogs are gone.

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So there's no more faith Evans, there's no more biggie, there's

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no more mace.

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Like, all of these people who were part of Bad Boy version 1.0

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have all moved on.

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And now we're into Bad Boy version 2.0, which Diddy had gone

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through.

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And because Diddy is the biggest star on the label.

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By design.

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By design, right.

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He grew to be the biggest thing on the label.

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Right.

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And of course, he went through his own challenges.

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This is after the club incident with the shooting and shine.

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And so, J.

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Lo, so Diddy is having a rough time chart wise in this era.

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And I remember when I heard about the fact that new editions

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signed with bad boy on paper, it made sense.

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It's like Diddy is from, you know, this era of.

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He understands r and B.

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He's helped to craft some of the most amazing r and B and ushered

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in some of the most amazing r and B acts will ever experience.

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And it's like, oh, yeah, no edition signing with him makes sense.

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And then, of course, we get into it and realize, like, oh, my

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God, this is actually kind of a mess because Johnny Gill alludes

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lose to that in the interview of like, yeah, it didn't work out

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the way we thought it was going to.

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Yes.

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So Johnny Gill's interview, he specifically recalls an incident

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where, you know, and he always prefaces.

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Prefaces the conversation by saying, hey, I've known Sean for

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years, which is true.

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They.

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You know, if you're in the music industry long enough, you're

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gonna run into the same people over and over again.

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Y'all are running in the same circles.

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You're probably on tour with each other.

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They know each other.

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Yes.

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They're in the same age group.

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This is so Johnny Gill is looking at him like, you're my peer.

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Yes, we're bros.

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Right.

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And so he recounts these really ugly incidents where Sean

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kind of oversteps his.

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The boundaries and, like, gets really flippant with him.

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And he was like, hey, now, wait a minute.

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Then this thing, you know, they're having these drop knockdown,

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drag out arguments and.

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Jerry.

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So I have a theory.

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As you mentioned, bad boy isn't really on the charts like that

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anymore.

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The roster is looking real funny because now the roster is made

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up of mostly reality tv stars.

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Diddy has transitioned from a recording star to a television star,

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thanks to MTV and the making the band series.

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Of course, you know, you've got, first of all, remember that.

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That whole weird moment in time where he had all these white

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acts like he had dream he had.

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What was it, Michelle?

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It was a Donnie Klang.

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Yeah.

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So he was.

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He was really, really, like, I guess, trying to, of course, cross

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over on in a major way by introducing non black acts to bad

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boy.

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And that really didn't work if you look at the roster and who actually

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was successful.

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But I go back to the making the band series.

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Diddy now has this television Persona of the mogul and the HNIC,

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everything.

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I'm the last.

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I'm the last stop for everything that goes on around here.

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Yes.

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And so I think he carried over that Persona, that.

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Gimme a cheesecake from Junior's Persona into a conversation

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with new edition, who are his age or maybe slightly older, who

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have been in the actual industry longer than him, are actual

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performers who have sold millions of records, consummate performers

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who get up there and do a two step like nobody else can.

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They can fall into choreography.

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These are seasoned professionals.

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J.

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Ray, it sounds to me like one love was not a collaboration.

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Yeah.

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One low was definitely a battle.

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A battle mostly with Diddy's, probably his ego and him trying to

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keep creative control over this project.

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When he didn't, he probably didn't realize that he could have

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gotten a lot further if it had been more of a collaboration instead

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of him trying to bully some grown ass men.

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And as we see here, it took.

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So the album.

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You want to talk about the stats?

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Let's talk about the stats.

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So they were signed, like I said, in November of 20, excuse me,

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2002.

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The album did not come out until 2004.

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The first single, hot Tonight, which was a battle in of itself,

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produced by.

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Ryan Leslie, by the way, produced by.

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Ryan Leslie, did not.

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According to new edition, the single did not reflect their maturity,

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and it did not reflect the maturity of their audience because

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they know who they are and they know who their audience is.

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They know how old the audience is.

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And this.

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This literally sounds like something you could give to a 112

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or day 26, right?

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Right.

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Yes.

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So listen, y'all, we can't do everything here on YouTube, so what

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you should do is you should definitely join our Patreon.

00:13:24
We have a version of this particular show with some extra footage

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from the one love era of new edition.

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Listen, J Ray is talking really greasy on this unedited version.

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I really think you need to check it out because he's in rare

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form and you never seen him talking like this.

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I had to step back myself.

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I couldn't believe it.

00:13:48
No.

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But on a serious tip, if you want us, you know, there's things

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that we can introduce and play on the backside, but we can't do

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it here because, you know, we'll get flagged in.

00:14:00
Yes.

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You know how YouTube does that thing.

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So make sure you subscribe and come on over.

00:14:05
Yes.

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Catch the raw, uncut footage.

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Trust me, you don't want to miss it.

00:14:10
The cool kids are over there.

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Come join the cool kids and just, you know, get all the behind

00:14:15
the scenes juice that, you know, you.

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Yeah.

00:14:17
Peace, y'all.

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Peace.

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So the album one love debuted at number twelve on Billboard's 200

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chart and number five on the Billboard r and B hip hop chart.

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Yep.

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Respectable for a band of that caliber.

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And new edition's audience wanted this record, of course.

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And honestly, from a commercial and critical perspective,

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the reviews were fine.

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People were like, no, this is actually a competent record.

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Diddy knows how to make sure that a record is clean, that it sounds

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good.

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All of the above.

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So people didn't have concerns with the quality of the album, per

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se, but it was some of this other stuff.

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It was some of the other stuff we were talking about the lack of

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cohesion between Diddy and new, new editions.

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And so the single, which, again, only single from the contention

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between.

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Between the label and the artist, they didn't really want that

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single to be the first thing, because this is.

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This is how you're reintroducing yourself after seven

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years of not releasing an album.

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This is not.

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This is not only how you're reintroducing yourself to your core

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audience, but there's a whole nother generation that is getting

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to no new edition.

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That single, j Ray, peaked at number 35 on Billboard's r and B

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chart and number 87 on Billboard's Hot 100.

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We're talking about new edition here, Jerry.

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This is new edition.

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This is.

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This is a super group.

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This is new edition.

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Bell, biv Devoe and Johnny Gill form to make Voltron.

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Right.

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At this point.

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And then.

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So by April of 2005, the album came out in November of 2004.

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By April of 2005, guess how many copies it actually sold.

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245 copies.

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I think Johnny Gill might have sold that on his own back in 1985.

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Right.

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With the record that people didn't even know.

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You know what I'm saying?

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This is.

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That's.

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While considering that, again, this is a.

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This is a heritage group.

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Yeah.

00:16:48
Yeah.

00:16:49
This is a heritage group.

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These are not some new jacks.

00:16:52
Yeah.

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You know, it's interesting.

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When I put this in perspective today, we would look at 245 and

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think, oh, my God, that record is such a hit.

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This is awesome.

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Right?

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But physical copies.

00:17:04
Physical copies, right?

00:17:05
Like, oh, my God, that's a really great.

00:17:06
Y'all did that.

00:17:07
Y'all did that.

00:17:08
This is a hit album.

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But in 2004 and 2005, this is not it.

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Right?

00:17:17
And as a result, new edition has to be released.

00:17:22
Like, listen, we went out of this thing.

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We bow out.

00:17:26
Grand opening, grand closing, literally a year.

00:17:30
J Ray, from November of 2004 to November of 2005, the span of

00:17:37
the album.

00:17:38
One and done.

00:17:40
We are out of here.

00:17:41
Let us out of our.

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Let us out of this contract.

00:17:44
That's it.

00:17:45
Let's just wipe our hands.

00:17:46
But, Jerry, who's missing out of this?

00:17:49
I'm going to say, like, we haven't talked about the fact that

00:17:52
there is a member.

00:17:54
The king of R and B is not in this group.

00:17:57
And we're not.

00:17:57
Meaning that facetiously.

00:17:58
Bobby Brown is amazing.

00:18:00
King of R and B.

00:18:00
True.

00:18:01
J ray, where.

00:18:02
So we saw Bobby Brown in 1996.

00:18:06
Yes.

00:18:07
Part of the home again project.

00:18:10
But where was he during one love.

00:18:13
Well, so the interesting thing.

00:18:16
So new edition reforms in 1996, they do an album, home again.

00:18:21
It's amazing.

00:18:22
Everybody's excited to have new edition back.

00:18:24
So what do artists do, Sir Daniel, when they need to promote

00:18:27
an album they like?

00:18:28
We gotta go on tour.

00:18:29
On the road again.

00:18:30
We are new edition.

00:18:32
We gonna do all of our new edition stuff.

00:18:34
And then we gonna do our BBD, our Ralph T, our Johnny G, and our

00:18:39
bell biv Devoe stuff.

00:18:40
And it's gonna be amazing.

00:18:41
Bay, bae, listen, those brothers was scrapping Sir Daniel.

00:18:50
I believe it.

00:18:51
I mean, knock down drag outs.

00:18:53
But it's.

00:18:55
In all fairness, and all honesty, they've been doing that

00:18:58
since they were kids, which is to be expected.

00:19:01
You know, you've got growing men on tour with each other.

00:19:07
Everybody has different personalities, their own egos, of

00:19:13
course, and they're making money.

00:19:15
So, yes, you're gonna have a clash.

00:19:17
Of the titans, and that's the other big part.

00:19:19
So, yes, I know we did the whole thing about them arguing and

00:19:22
not getting along, but the other thing was from Bobby Brown's

00:19:26
perspective, he's like, I don't wanna split.

00:19:29
You know, you have, when you're in a group like this, like,

00:19:31
you gotta split the money up evenly.

00:19:33
Like now it's not five, it is six.

00:19:37
So when you've now been a solo act for as long as Bobby Brown had

00:19:40
been a solo act, those splits were also a thing as well.

00:19:45
He got a lot of kids and.

00:19:46
He got a lot of kids to take care of.

00:19:48
That was a whole different point of time in Bobby Brown's life

00:19:51
as well.

00:19:52
For sure.

00:19:54
Bobby did not sign on for the one love, the whole bad boy era.

00:20:00
But Sir Daniel, one thing that you said earlier, and I know we're

00:20:03
going to get out of here in a second, but I do think it is really

00:20:10
ironic is the wrong word.

00:20:13
I felt like new edition fighting so hard to get from under

00:20:20
the thumb and the foot of all of these MCA records.

00:20:25
Maurice Starr back in the day, all of these people that were like,

00:20:29
no, no, no, we're going to hold you down.

00:20:32
I think the other thing is going over there to bad boy.

00:20:36
They quickly figured out like, no, because he's already trying to

00:20:40
take control of stuff that we've worked so hard to get, regain

00:20:45
our control.

00:20:46
You can't have it.

00:20:48
You are absolutely right.

00:20:51
One caveat.

00:20:52
So like, Bobby Brown rejoined new edition right after they left

00:20:59
bad boy and went to support the One Love project, what was left

00:21:03
of it, right?

00:21:04
And they went on tour after that.

00:21:06
But you're absolutely right.

00:21:09
I couldn't have said it any better.

00:21:11
These are grown men who have literally come up in the industry

00:21:17
as children have gone, have gone up against every monster in

00:21:22
this industry that you can think of.

00:21:25
And for, you know, again, like I said, diddy is at this time, is

00:21:30
really feeling himself and wants to take creative control, keep

00:21:35
everything in house, of course, like you said, to keep it

00:21:39
more beneficial for him economically.

00:21:41
But these fellas are just like, no, you can't talk to us like

00:21:47
Duban.

00:21:48
We're not Danny B.

00:21:49
Kane.

00:21:50
You're not going to roast us and have us doing a dance battle

00:21:55
you can't do that with us.

00:21:56
No.

00:21:57
And so it's just.

00:21:59
It's really simple.

00:22:00
Let's surmise it, J Ray.

00:22:01
The factors that led to the failure of one love battle of creative

00:22:05
control between Diddy and new edition.

00:22:09
Strike one.

00:22:10
Two.

00:22:11
The lead single, did not reflect the group's maturity or the

00:22:15
maturity of their audience.

00:22:17
And number three, and most importantly, there was probably just

00:22:21
a lack of respect.

00:22:24
Yes.

00:22:25
A lack of respect for them as artists and for them as creative

00:22:33
creatives in this process.

00:22:36
So, yeah, guys, I hope you not.

00:22:40
Do you remember, is it clicking now you remember one love.

00:22:43
The album cover is white.

00:22:45
They're wearing baggy jeans right here for new edition at that

00:22:49
age.

00:22:49
Okay, so I do want to talk about that before we get out of here.

00:22:53
That was also really interesting.

00:22:55
So new edition has this baggy.

00:23:00
Like, it's like a.

00:23:01
Is it Sean?

00:23:02
They're probably wearing Sean.

00:23:03
They're probably literally wearing Sean John.

00:23:05
And they got.

00:23:07
So if you go back to home again, they're all in suits.

00:23:10
Da da da da da.

00:23:11
Yes.

00:23:11
And in this, very classy, right?

00:23:14
And in this, I'm like, so are they the locs now?

00:23:17
I'm not sure.

00:23:19
They're looking like a combination of the locs and soul,

00:23:22
for real.

00:23:24
Not up to new edition standards.

00:23:27
Sorry, guys.

00:23:29
But I hope you enjoyed this episode of Coupoints podcast.

00:23:31
We enjoyed bringing it to you, J Ray.

00:23:33
Let them know real quick how they could subscribe and be a part

00:23:36
of our magic.

00:23:37
Absolutely.

00:23:38
So thank you all so much for taking the time out of your schedule

00:23:41
to hear our voices and take a look at the work that we're doing.

00:23:45
If you enjoy this, go ahead and subscribe wherever you are.

00:23:48
We would really appreciate it.

00:23:50
Share the show with your friends, family, colleagues.

00:23:53
If you enjoy cue points, chances are they will as well.

00:23:56
We would absolutely appreciate it if you supported cue points.

00:23:59
You can certainly join our Patreon.

00:24:00
You can also shop our store at store dot cue points.com and make

00:24:04
sure that you follow us on social media at Cue Points pod and

00:24:09
visit our website to join our newsletter at cue points.com.

00:24:14
You'Re amazing.

00:24:15
You're amazing.

00:24:16
Sir Daniel.

00:24:18
This is Q Points.

00:24:19
So, listen, what do I always say?

00:24:21
In this life, you have a choice.

00:24:23
You can either pick up the needle or you can let the record

00:24:27
play.

00:24:27
I'm DJ Sir Daniel.

00:24:29
My name is Jrey, y'all.

00:24:30
And this has been Cue Points podcast, dropping the needle on black

00:24:34
music history.

00:24:35
We will see you on the next go round.

00:24:37
Peace.

00:24:37
Peace.

vocal groups

New Edition's Diddy Era: 'One Love' Is A Twenty Year Old Musical Moment We Forgot About