In this episode of Queue Points Podcast, hosts DJ Sir Daniel and Jay Ray revisit the 20th anniversary of New Edition's 'One Love' album on Bad Boy Records, exploring the collaboration between the iconic R&B group and Diddy. The discussion covers the creative control battles, production challenges, and the impact these conflicts had on the album's success. The hosts also touch on Bobby Brown's absence and the internal struggles within New Edition during this era. Tune in for a deep dive into the history of New Edition and their tumultuous partnership with Diddy, shedding light on how they navigated these significant career challenges. Join us on Patreon for exclusive, uncut footage and more insights. Don't forget to subscribe, share, and support Queue Points for more discussions on Black music history.
Topics: #NewEdition #Diddy #BadBoy #NewEditionOneLove #BlackPodcasters #BlackMusic #MusicPodcast
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00:00:16
Greetings and welcome back to another episode of Q Points podcast,
00:00:20
dropping the needle on black music history.
00:00:22
I am DJ Sir Daniel, and my.
00:00:25
Name is J Ray, sometimes known by my government as Johnny Ray Korngay
00:00:28
III.
00:00:29
What's happening, people?
00:00:30
Well, I can tell you what's happening, J Ray P.
00:00:34
Diddy is.
00:00:36
To say that he's in trouble is an understatement.
00:00:39
We're now 120 more allegations deep, and the saga just continues.
00:00:47
More artists that he's worked with are coming out with their own
00:00:52
tales of working with him.
00:00:54
But you know what?
00:00:55
You and I were having a conversation about a.
00:00:57
A video that we recently saw featuring Johnny Gill.
00:01:01
Yes, and Johnny Gill, of course, we know.
00:01:05
Iconic, legendary vocalist, member of Lavert sweating.
00:01:11
Gill, also a member of new edition, of course, was reflecting
00:01:17
on his time and new edition's time working with Diddy on Bad boy.
00:01:26
And you and I looked at each other like, that's right.
00:01:29
I completely forgot about that.
00:01:31
Yeah, that was a perfect.
00:01:32
That was a moment in time.
00:01:36
It's wild when you think about it now, one that it was that many
00:01:39
years.
00:01:39
So that is the 20th anniversary of the release of New
00:01:44
Edition's album on Bad Boy, which was called One Love.
00:01:50
It was their 7th album, released in November of 2004.
00:01:56
So we're really coming up on it on the Bad boy universal.
00:02:02
We got a lot to talk about there leading up to this record.
00:02:05
But you know, what's interesting about this album, for
00:02:10
me, personally, Sir Daniel and I do want to have us get into what
00:02:14
Johnny Gill said.
00:02:15
What's interesting for me, though, about this album is I literally
00:02:20
forgot.
00:02:22
So there was home again.
00:02:24
Yes.
00:02:25
And then there was one love in my mind.
00:02:28
They were the same out.
00:02:30
Same, same J ray, same.
00:02:34
I was like, so that wasn't on hot tonight, wasn't on the home again.
00:02:38
Oh.
00:02:39
Huh.
00:02:40
I literally said the same thing, and I figured out why we feel
00:02:44
this way, sir Daniel, the reason why we feel this way, and
00:02:47
this speaks to kind of the omnipresence of bad boy in that era
00:02:52
between, like, 96 and, like, the early two thousands, was that,
00:02:57
of course, Diddy produced the single from the home again record.
00:03:03
And for whatever reason, I merged these two things together
00:03:08
and was like, oh, yeah, one love.
00:03:10
Of course.
00:03:11
That I remember.
00:03:11
I remember the hot tonight that was on there, and I thought
00:03:14
it was all six of them.
00:03:15
And it wasn't until I was getting ready for this show, sir
00:03:18
Daniel, where they were, like, only five members were in the group.
00:03:22
And I'm like, no, that don't make no sense.
00:03:24
It was six members in the group.
00:03:25
It wasn't.
00:03:26
This is a totally different record.
00:03:29
It was not.
00:03:30
It was supposed to be a celebration of new edition finally
00:03:36
leaving MCA.
00:03:38
Cause they had been with MCA for decades.
00:03:40
Yes.
00:03:41
They were finally leaving MCA.
00:03:43
And they were also.
00:03:44
They also got their masters.
00:03:46
Big deal.
00:03:47
Which is a huge deal for artists.
00:03:49
You hear them talk about it to this day, about getting their masters,
00:03:53
getting the original reel to reels, in their case.
00:03:56
Yep.
00:03:57
Of their recordings.
00:03:59
They, like you said, they had not put an album out in seven years.
00:04:03
So it just kind of felt like, you know, Diddy is Diddy and bad
00:04:10
boy records.
00:04:10
As you mentioned, J rate has been running things, for lack of
00:04:13
a better term, for close to a decade now.
00:04:17
They've had a great track run.
00:04:20
They've had.
00:04:21
They got this new deal with Universal Records, which that just
00:04:26
was not a good era for bad boy, in my opinion, and clearly yours
00:04:30
as well.
00:04:32
But they actually signed a j ray in 2002.
00:04:37
Yeah.
00:04:38
Guess when the album finally came out, 2004.
00:04:42
So there's a two year gap.
00:04:45
There's two years of being in the studios.
00:04:47
Yep.
00:04:48
Two years of, I'm sure, photo shoots, two years of writing.
00:04:53
And the only thing that I can think of, J Ray, is that they were
00:04:58
just.
00:04:59
There was too many chefs in the kitchen.
00:05:01
Cause when you look at who was on the roster, as far as producers,
00:05:07
J Ray and writers, first of all, new edition, of course, being
00:05:12
the consummate performers that they are, are writing as well.
00:05:17
This is not just.
00:05:18
We're gonna sit here and let you know.
00:05:20
This is a collaboration.
00:05:22
Absolutely.
00:05:23
They are new addition.
00:05:24
They have had hit after hithenne as a group and solo.
00:05:28
They are seasoned performers.
00:05:30
So by then, new edition is 20 years into their career.
00:05:33
They are veterans.
00:05:35
They are.
00:05:35
They are veterans.
00:05:36
They are heads of state, in my opinion.
00:05:39
And so, of course, the album roster of producers includes, you
00:05:43
know, your Stevie J's.
00:05:45
You got your.
00:05:46
Now you got your Mario Winans, Ryan Leslie, who is a whole nother
00:05:54
conversation.
00:05:54
I'm great to say.
00:05:55
That's like the long.
00:05:56
That's a whole other long conversation.
00:05:59
That's a whole nother conversation to have.
00:06:01
Dre and Vidal and funny enough, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis
00:06:06
were producers on this album as well.
00:06:08
J Ray, that's a lot of chefs in the kitchen.
00:06:10
That's a lot of chefs.
00:06:11
And, of course, you know, so the thing about it, and I think it
00:06:15
was Michael Bivens, it might have been Ricky Bell that talked
00:06:18
about this at the time.
00:06:21
Bad boy, of course, didn't really want.
00:06:23
They weren't really keen on the Jimmy jam and Terry Lewis edition.
00:06:26
So Jimmy and Terry only did, I think, two songs on this record,
00:06:30
if I'm correct.
00:06:32
Yeah, they did two songs on the record.
00:06:34
And most of that was because I think, you know, budget wise, you
00:06:40
know, Diddy wants to keep everything in house with the hitmen.
00:06:42
Right, of course.
00:06:44
But of course, we know that new edition is like, nah, like, our
00:06:48
big bangers is this.
00:06:50
We, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis.
00:06:52
Like, that's magic right there.
00:06:54
How are we not going to have a record with Jimmy Jam, have songs
00:06:57
with Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis?
00:06:58
But I do want us to talk a little bit about the moment in time
00:07:05
that new edition are actually coming into bad boy, because I think
00:07:09
that does cloud what happened to so in the early, the late nineties.
00:07:17
So this is 2000 and beyond.
00:07:21
Bad boy changes a lot.
00:07:24
So by 2002, when new edition signed to the head, all the original
00:07:31
kind of the ogs are gone.
00:07:33
So there's no more faith Evans, there's no more biggie, there's
00:07:36
no more mace.
00:07:37
Like, all of these people who were part of Bad Boy version 1.0
00:07:43
have all moved on.
00:07:45
And now we're into Bad Boy version 2.0, which Diddy had gone
00:07:52
through.
00:07:52
And because Diddy is the biggest star on the label.
00:07:56
By design.
00:07:57
By design, right.
00:07:58
He grew to be the biggest thing on the label.
00:08:00
Right.
00:08:01
And of course, he went through his own challenges.
00:08:03
This is after the club incident with the shooting and shine.
00:08:07
And so, J.
00:08:10
Lo, so Diddy is having a rough time chart wise in this era.
00:08:17
And I remember when I heard about the fact that new editions
00:08:22
signed with bad boy on paper, it made sense.
00:08:26
It's like Diddy is from, you know, this era of.
00:08:31
He understands r and B.
00:08:33
He's helped to craft some of the most amazing r and B and ushered
00:08:38
in some of the most amazing r and B acts will ever experience.
00:08:42
And it's like, oh, yeah, no edition signing with him makes sense.
00:08:46
And then, of course, we get into it and realize, like, oh, my
00:08:49
God, this is actually kind of a mess because Johnny Gill alludes
00:08:53
lose to that in the interview of like, yeah, it didn't work out
00:08:58
the way we thought it was going to.
00:09:01
Yes.
00:09:01
So Johnny Gill's interview, he specifically recalls an incident
00:09:10
where, you know, and he always prefaces.
00:09:13
Prefaces the conversation by saying, hey, I've known Sean for
00:09:17
years, which is true.
00:09:19
They.
00:09:20
You know, if you're in the music industry long enough, you're
00:09:23
gonna run into the same people over and over again.
00:09:25
Y'all are running in the same circles.
00:09:26
You're probably on tour with each other.
00:09:28
They know each other.
00:09:29
Yes.
00:09:30
They're in the same age group.
00:09:32
This is so Johnny Gill is looking at him like, you're my peer.
00:09:35
Yes, we're bros.
00:09:36
Right.
00:09:37
And so he recounts these really ugly incidents where Sean
00:09:43
kind of oversteps his.
00:09:46
The boundaries and, like, gets really flippant with him.
00:09:50
And he was like, hey, now, wait a minute.
00:09:52
Then this thing, you know, they're having these drop knockdown,
00:09:54
drag out arguments and.
00:09:57
Jerry.
00:09:57
So I have a theory.
00:09:59
As you mentioned, bad boy isn't really on the charts like that
00:10:04
anymore.
00:10:06
The roster is looking real funny because now the roster is made
00:10:10
up of mostly reality tv stars.
00:10:14
Diddy has transitioned from a recording star to a television star,
00:10:19
thanks to MTV and the making the band series.
00:10:23
Of course, you know, you've got, first of all, remember that.
00:10:27
That whole weird moment in time where he had all these white
00:10:31
acts like he had dream he had.
00:10:33
What was it, Michelle?
00:10:34
It was a Donnie Klang.
00:10:36
Yeah.
00:10:36
So he was.
00:10:37
He was really, really, like, I guess, trying to, of course, cross
00:10:43
over on in a major way by introducing non black acts to bad
00:10:48
boy.
00:10:49
And that really didn't work if you look at the roster and who actually
00:10:54
was successful.
00:10:55
But I go back to the making the band series.
00:11:00
Diddy now has this television Persona of the mogul and the HNIC,
00:11:10
everything.
00:11:11
I'm the last.
00:11:12
I'm the last stop for everything that goes on around here.
00:11:16
Yes.
00:11:16
And so I think he carried over that Persona, that.
00:11:22
Gimme a cheesecake from Junior's Persona into a conversation
00:11:27
with new edition, who are his age or maybe slightly older, who
00:11:35
have been in the actual industry longer than him, are actual
00:11:40
performers who have sold millions of records, consummate performers
00:11:46
who get up there and do a two step like nobody else can.
00:11:49
They can fall into choreography.
00:11:51
These are seasoned professionals.
00:11:53
J.
00:11:53
Ray, it sounds to me like one love was not a collaboration.
00:11:58
Yeah.
00:11:58
One low was definitely a battle.
00:12:01
A battle mostly with Diddy's, probably his ego and him trying to
00:12:06
keep creative control over this project.
00:12:09
When he didn't, he probably didn't realize that he could have
00:12:13
gotten a lot further if it had been more of a collaboration instead
00:12:18
of him trying to bully some grown ass men.
00:12:21
And as we see here, it took.
00:12:25
So the album.
00:12:26
You want to talk about the stats?
00:12:28
Let's talk about the stats.
00:12:30
So they were signed, like I said, in November of 20, excuse me,
00:12:36
2002.
00:12:38
The album did not come out until 2004.
00:12:43
The first single, hot Tonight, which was a battle in of itself,
00:12:49
produced by.
00:12:49
Ryan Leslie, by the way, produced by.
00:12:51
Ryan Leslie, did not.
00:12:53
According to new edition, the single did not reflect their maturity,
00:12:58
and it did not reflect the maturity of their audience because
00:13:01
they know who they are and they know who their audience is.
00:13:05
They know how old the audience is.
00:13:07
And this.
00:13:08
This literally sounds like something you could give to a 112
00:13:13
or day 26, right?
00:13:14
Right.
00:13:15
Yes.
00:13:16
So listen, y'all, we can't do everything here on YouTube, so what
00:13:20
you should do is you should definitely join our Patreon.
00:13:24
We have a version of this particular show with some extra footage
00:13:29
from the one love era of new edition.
00:13:33
Listen, J Ray is talking really greasy on this unedited version.
00:13:38
I really think you need to check it out because he's in rare
00:13:42
form and you never seen him talking like this.
00:13:45
I had to step back myself.
00:13:47
I couldn't believe it.
00:13:48
No.
00:13:48
But on a serious tip, if you want us, you know, there's things
00:13:52
that we can introduce and play on the backside, but we can't do
00:13:58
it here because, you know, we'll get flagged in.
00:14:00
Yes.
00:14:00
You know how YouTube does that thing.
00:14:02
So make sure you subscribe and come on over.
00:14:05
Yes.
00:14:06
Catch the raw, uncut footage.
00:14:08
Trust me, you don't want to miss it.
00:14:10
The cool kids are over there.
00:14:11
Come join the cool kids and just, you know, get all the behind
00:14:15
the scenes juice that, you know, you.
00:14:17
Yeah.
00:14:17
Peace, y'all.
00:14:18
Peace.
00:14:20
So the album one love debuted at number twelve on Billboard's 200
00:14:27
chart and number five on the Billboard r and B hip hop chart.
00:14:34
Yep.
00:14:34
Respectable for a band of that caliber.
00:14:37
And new edition's audience wanted this record, of course.
00:14:42
And honestly, from a commercial and critical perspective,
00:14:48
the reviews were fine.
00:14:50
People were like, no, this is actually a competent record.
00:14:52
Diddy knows how to make sure that a record is clean, that it sounds
00:14:56
good.
00:14:57
All of the above.
00:14:58
So people didn't have concerns with the quality of the album, per
00:15:04
se, but it was some of this other stuff.
00:15:07
It was some of the other stuff we were talking about the lack of
00:15:10
cohesion between Diddy and new, new editions.
00:15:15
And so the single, which, again, only single from the contention
00:15:21
between.
00:15:22
Between the label and the artist, they didn't really want that
00:15:26
single to be the first thing, because this is.
00:15:27
This is how you're reintroducing yourself after seven
00:15:31
years of not releasing an album.
00:15:34
This is not.
00:15:35
This is not only how you're reintroducing yourself to your core
00:15:38
audience, but there's a whole nother generation that is getting
00:15:42
to no new edition.
00:15:44
That single, j Ray, peaked at number 35 on Billboard's r and B
00:15:49
chart and number 87 on Billboard's Hot 100.
00:15:55
We're talking about new edition here, Jerry.
00:15:58
This is new edition.
00:15:59
This is.
00:16:00
This is a super group.
00:16:01
This is new edition.
00:16:02
Bell, biv Devoe and Johnny Gill form to make Voltron.
00:16:06
Right.
00:16:07
At this point.
00:16:09
And then.
00:16:09
So by April of 2005, the album came out in November of 2004.
00:16:16
By April of 2005, guess how many copies it actually sold.
00:16:23
245 copies.
00:16:30
I think Johnny Gill might have sold that on his own back in 1985.
00:16:35
Right.
00:16:36
With the record that people didn't even know.
00:16:39
You know what I'm saying?
00:16:39
This is.
00:16:40
That's.
00:16:40
While considering that, again, this is a.
00:16:45
This is a heritage group.
00:16:47
Yeah.
00:16:48
Yeah.
00:16:49
This is a heritage group.
00:16:50
These are not some new jacks.
00:16:52
Yeah.
00:16:53
You know, it's interesting.
00:16:54
When I put this in perspective today, we would look at 245 and
00:16:58
think, oh, my God, that record is such a hit.
00:17:01
This is awesome.
00:17:02
Right?
00:17:03
But physical copies.
00:17:04
Physical copies, right?
00:17:05
Like, oh, my God, that's a really great.
00:17:06
Y'all did that.
00:17:07
Y'all did that.
00:17:08
This is a hit album.
00:17:09
But in 2004 and 2005, this is not it.
00:17:17
Right?
00:17:17
And as a result, new edition has to be released.
00:17:22
Like, listen, we went out of this thing.
00:17:25
We bow out.
00:17:26
Grand opening, grand closing, literally a year.
00:17:30
J Ray, from November of 2004 to November of 2005, the span of
00:17:37
the album.
00:17:38
One and done.
00:17:40
We are out of here.
00:17:41
Let us out of our.
00:17:42
Let us out of this contract.
00:17:44
That's it.
00:17:45
Let's just wipe our hands.
00:17:46
But, Jerry, who's missing out of this?
00:17:49
I'm going to say, like, we haven't talked about the fact that
00:17:52
there is a member.
00:17:54
The king of R and B is not in this group.
00:17:57
And we're not.
00:17:57
Meaning that facetiously.
00:17:58
Bobby Brown is amazing.
00:18:00
King of R and B.
00:18:00
True.
00:18:01
J ray, where.
00:18:02
So we saw Bobby Brown in 1996.
00:18:06
Yes.
00:18:07
Part of the home again project.
00:18:10
But where was he during one love.
00:18:13
Well, so the interesting thing.
00:18:16
So new edition reforms in 1996, they do an album, home again.
00:18:21
It's amazing.
00:18:22
Everybody's excited to have new edition back.
00:18:24
So what do artists do, Sir Daniel, when they need to promote
00:18:27
an album they like?
00:18:28
We gotta go on tour.
00:18:29
On the road again.
00:18:30
We are new edition.
00:18:32
We gonna do all of our new edition stuff.
00:18:34
And then we gonna do our BBD, our Ralph T, our Johnny G, and our
00:18:39
bell biv Devoe stuff.
00:18:40
And it's gonna be amazing.
00:18:41
Bay, bae, listen, those brothers was scrapping Sir Daniel.
00:18:50
I believe it.
00:18:51
I mean, knock down drag outs.
00:18:53
But it's.
00:18:55
In all fairness, and all honesty, they've been doing that
00:18:58
since they were kids, which is to be expected.
00:19:01
You know, you've got growing men on tour with each other.
00:19:07
Everybody has different personalities, their own egos, of
00:19:13
course, and they're making money.
00:19:15
So, yes, you're gonna have a clash.
00:19:17
Of the titans, and that's the other big part.
00:19:19
So, yes, I know we did the whole thing about them arguing and
00:19:22
not getting along, but the other thing was from Bobby Brown's
00:19:26
perspective, he's like, I don't wanna split.
00:19:29
You know, you have, when you're in a group like this, like,
00:19:31
you gotta split the money up evenly.
00:19:33
Like now it's not five, it is six.
00:19:37
So when you've now been a solo act for as long as Bobby Brown had
00:19:40
been a solo act, those splits were also a thing as well.
00:19:45
He got a lot of kids and.
00:19:46
He got a lot of kids to take care of.
00:19:48
That was a whole different point of time in Bobby Brown's life
00:19:51
as well.
00:19:52
For sure.
00:19:54
Bobby did not sign on for the one love, the whole bad boy era.
00:20:00
But Sir Daniel, one thing that you said earlier, and I know we're
00:20:03
going to get out of here in a second, but I do think it is really
00:20:10
ironic is the wrong word.
00:20:13
I felt like new edition fighting so hard to get from under
00:20:20
the thumb and the foot of all of these MCA records.
00:20:25
Maurice Starr back in the day, all of these people that were like,
00:20:29
no, no, no, we're going to hold you down.
00:20:32
I think the other thing is going over there to bad boy.
00:20:36
They quickly figured out like, no, because he's already trying to
00:20:40
take control of stuff that we've worked so hard to get, regain
00:20:45
our control.
00:20:46
You can't have it.
00:20:48
You are absolutely right.
00:20:51
One caveat.
00:20:52
So like, Bobby Brown rejoined new edition right after they left
00:20:59
bad boy and went to support the One Love project, what was left
00:21:03
of it, right?
00:21:04
And they went on tour after that.
00:21:06
But you're absolutely right.
00:21:09
I couldn't have said it any better.
00:21:11
These are grown men who have literally come up in the industry
00:21:17
as children have gone, have gone up against every monster in
00:21:22
this industry that you can think of.
00:21:25
And for, you know, again, like I said, diddy is at this time, is
00:21:30
really feeling himself and wants to take creative control, keep
00:21:35
everything in house, of course, like you said, to keep it
00:21:39
more beneficial for him economically.
00:21:41
But these fellas are just like, no, you can't talk to us like
00:21:47
Duban.
00:21:48
We're not Danny B.
00:21:49
Kane.
00:21:50
You're not going to roast us and have us doing a dance battle
00:21:55
you can't do that with us.
00:21:56
No.
00:21:57
And so it's just.
00:21:59
It's really simple.
00:22:00
Let's surmise it, J Ray.
00:22:01
The factors that led to the failure of one love battle of creative
00:22:05
control between Diddy and new edition.
00:22:09
Strike one.
00:22:10
Two.
00:22:11
The lead single, did not reflect the group's maturity or the
00:22:15
maturity of their audience.
00:22:17
And number three, and most importantly, there was probably just
00:22:21
a lack of respect.
00:22:24
Yes.
00:22:25
A lack of respect for them as artists and for them as creative
00:22:33
creatives in this process.
00:22:36
So, yeah, guys, I hope you not.
00:22:40
Do you remember, is it clicking now you remember one love.
00:22:43
The album cover is white.
00:22:45
They're wearing baggy jeans right here for new edition at that
00:22:49
age.
00:22:49
Okay, so I do want to talk about that before we get out of here.
00:22:53
That was also really interesting.
00:22:55
So new edition has this baggy.
00:23:00
Like, it's like a.
00:23:01
Is it Sean?
00:23:02
They're probably wearing Sean.
00:23:03
They're probably literally wearing Sean John.
00:23:05
And they got.
00:23:07
So if you go back to home again, they're all in suits.
00:23:10
Da da da da da.
00:23:11
Yes.
00:23:11
And in this, very classy, right?
00:23:14
And in this, I'm like, so are they the locs now?
00:23:17
I'm not sure.
00:23:19
They're looking like a combination of the locs and soul,
00:23:22
for real.
00:23:24
Not up to new edition standards.
00:23:27
Sorry, guys.
00:23:29
But I hope you enjoyed this episode of Coupoints podcast.
00:23:31
We enjoyed bringing it to you, J Ray.
00:23:33
Let them know real quick how they could subscribe and be a part
00:23:36
of our magic.
00:23:37
Absolutely.
00:23:38
So thank you all so much for taking the time out of your schedule
00:23:41
to hear our voices and take a look at the work that we're doing.
00:23:45
If you enjoy this, go ahead and subscribe wherever you are.
00:23:48
We would really appreciate it.
00:23:50
Share the show with your friends, family, colleagues.
00:23:53
If you enjoy cue points, chances are they will as well.
00:23:56
We would absolutely appreciate it if you supported cue points.
00:23:59
You can certainly join our Patreon.
00:24:00
You can also shop our store at store dot cue points.com and make
00:24:04
sure that you follow us on social media at Cue Points pod and
00:24:09
visit our website to join our newsletter at cue points.com.
00:24:14
You'Re amazing.
00:24:15
You're amazing.
00:24:16
Sir Daniel.
00:24:18
This is Q Points.
00:24:19
So, listen, what do I always say?
00:24:21
In this life, you have a choice.
00:24:23
You can either pick up the needle or you can let the record
00:24:27
play.
00:24:27
I'm DJ Sir Daniel.
00:24:29
My name is Jrey, y'all.
00:24:30
And this has been Cue Points podcast, dropping the needle on black
00:24:34
music history.
00:24:35
We will see you on the next go round.
00:24:37
Peace.
00:24:37
Peace.
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