Where the ‘Back to Life’ Beat Really Came From ft. Just Drawz

Transcript

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Sir Daniel: they actually got it from Graham Central Station. Uh, The Jam is where that beat comes from. So if you wanna, if you wanna hear where it came from, a lot of people think it's Ash, it's, um, uh, Soul Searchers?

Ashley's Roachclip. A lot of people think it's that, but it's not. It's actually Graham Central Station.

Sir Daniel: Greetings and welcome to another episode of Queue Points podcast. I am DJ Sir Daniel

Jay Ray: And my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my government as Johnnie Ray Kornegay III. And Sir Daniel, we, we have a dope podcast duo on the show. It's been a while since we have had a podcast duo on the show, and these brothers are really dope,

We have Darius and Jeff from the Just Drawz podcast. Just Drawz is a space where real conversations live and performative nonsense does not. It is a show hosted by two Black gay men who are smart, sometimes funny, they're all the times funny actually, and not afraid to say the quiet parts out loud. Darius and Jeff talk life, love, sex, culture, mental health, politics, pop culture, and everything in between from Black qu- from a Black queer lens that stays honest, unfiltered, and rooted in the truth.

Welcome to Queue Points podcast, the Just Drawz podcast.

What's

DMC: of applause. What's up? What's up? What's up?

Sir Daniel: just drows.

Jeff: Thank you. Thank you.

Just Draws. Drawz

Just

Jay Ray: Drawz

DMC: draws.

Jay Ray: Drawz So

okay, so this is actually a question we need to ask. How did y'all come up with the name Just Drawz?

DMC: All right. So it was me.

Sir Daniel: The culprits

DMC: I'm the culprit. So interestingly enough, and I've, we've talked about this on our podcast too, is it re- literally came to me in a dream. Um, I have... My loved ones, I like to say my loved ones bring me ideas in my sleep when I'm sleeping. And so they brought me a lot of different things. Sometimes if I'm thinking about something or I'm really kind of ruminating on something, I'll go to sleep and my loved ones will come in and say, "Okay, here's, here's the answer to that."

And one night I had a dream that Jeff and I had a podcast, and in the dream it was called Just Drawz. And even the name, the fact that it was raw, vulnerable, and stripped down as if you were in your Drawz, those was the kind of conversations we were having, all that came to me in the dream. so I called Jeff the next morning on the way to work or the gym, or I think I was on my way to the gym, and I was like, "Hey, guess what?"

I was like, "I had a dream that you and I had a podcast, and here was the name of it. It was called Just Drawz, and it was called this because of this, and this and that." And so we laughed it off and kinda went on with life about it, and probably about a month, three weeks to a month later, a mutual friend of ours at the time reached out to us and was like, "Hey, would you be interested in doing a podcast?"

With him and another guy. Um, another, you know, mutual friend of ours. And so we were like, "Okay. Let's, let's give it a shot. We'll, you know, check it out and see what it's about." And so then from there, uh, we started as a foursome, and when we were thinking about names, there was one name that kinda came about and I looked it up and I was like, "Oh, there's another podcast, like, that's already called this."

So I said, "All right, y'all." I said, "Let me throw this out here. This was a name that I had a dream about. What about this?" And so if you go back and listen to our pilot episode, you'll hear Jeff say, "All right, we are here today with the tentatively titled Drawz, Just Drawz podcast." You know. And so from there it just kinda stuck, and we've held onto it since then

Jeff: Yeah. Yep, yep. Everything just kinda aligned at the time. I kinda worked on the technical things because we were an audio-only podcast at the time, and I worked a little bit in audio, making my own custom sound mixes, and I don't do that anymore. Um, but it was something that I was interested in at a time. And I also, uh, worked with a little video editing and the software that I was using at the time, um, the audio and the video kind of worked together, or they worked, their, this interface is very, is the, the similar to the same.

And I was doing that with some of the video game clips that I would make. Um, and so adding all that together, it kinda made it where, "Okay, well, I know how to do all the technical stuff. All we need to do is just record it, and then we'll get everything out there." And we ended up putting it up on YouTube and Spotify,

Jay Ray: here you go

Jeff: here we are.

Um, what is this? This is, I think, our third-year anniversary, um, since our first episode uploaded, actually. Um, uh, yeah, we're past it actually. Um, but yeah. Here we are three years later and, uh, we transitioned to video, I think, within the first 18 months. Um, and we've just been kinda going full forward, um, ever since.

Um, we did... You know, it's only two of us. It's not four anymore, but we did address that in a, in a podcast episode, so we, we've talked about that already.

DMC: Go check that out

Jay Ray: Yeah

Jeff: yeah, it's, it's been going well, and there's no love lost or any issues with our former castmates.

DMC: And we're just trying to be like you guys, you know?

Sir Daniel: wow. Listen, we, we understand the amount of work and dedication that it takes to do this. Three years, that's a lot of work. That's a lot of topics. And I, I, I'm curious, like, what's the one, like, topic or guest that continues to just, y'all just be like, "You know what? Such and such." That still pops up and people still talk about it, or you feel like that, that episode, that was it.

That, or that guest, that was it. That really just made,

Jeff: We

Sir Daniel: with us and with everybody, the

Jeff: We may not agree on the same one. W- we either gonna agree or we're gonna disagree.

Jay Ray: I love this. I

Jeff: But they're both gonna be,

DMC: we're so hive-minded, yeah, that it's like it's either we're all together or we're separate. Like, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah

Jeff: and my first one is maybe his second one or, or vice versa, it may be swapped. But I feel like our, um, the one we did on performative masculinity,

DMC: Mm-hmm. That was a good one

Jeff: that one I feel like 'cause we got a lot of, um, engagement from that discussion. Um, you know, we basically talked about performative masculinity and how that shows up and how people perform masculinity. Um, so that, that would, I would say that that would be the episode

DMC: Um, I think for me, I don't know. See, I'm the guy that doesn't like to talk about love, sex, and relationships like every other gay podcast, and I've said that on multiple episodes, and I say that to everybody that I talk to. I'm just like, "I hate talking about that all the goddamn time," because I feel like that is not all that I wanna talk about.

So I'm always the one that comes up with stuff like, "Ooh, I wanna talk about this," or, "Let's talk about this." 'Cause when Jeff came with the performative masculinity, I was like, "Oh, okay, dope. Why don't we do a whole series? Like, and we'll do a performativity series, so maybe we'll do performative queerness, and then we'll do performative Blackness."

And so, like, I wanted to do all this extra stuff, and that didn't even get as much engagement as the performative masculinity. But I know the, one of the one episodes, our, our highest viewed episode to date now is the Gaying Over 40 episode, and I was just... Yeah, and that was, yeah, and I was just like, we literally were just, like, shooting the s**t it felt like on that one.

I was just like, "Okay, well, we're gonna do Gaying O-" Like Jeff will bring me an idea, and I'm like, "That's fine. Let's go. Let's do it." You know, I'm, I'm the one that's, uh, you know, that's like, "I'm ready. Let's, whatever we wanna talk about, we can talk about." Um, so that one was really good. We've had some good guests on the show, too.

Uh, my homeboy, uh, DeMarco, who lives in, uh, LA, DeMarco Majors. You probably would know him from, uh, he did a show years ago called Shirts & Skins, and he was a professional, uh, basketball player overseas. Um, he is an actor, model, all of this stuff. Um, he's did like three episodes with us. Um, I reached out and I was like, "Hey, can you come on and do these episodes?"

Uh, the first episode we did with him, the audio was so horrible due to connection that I was like, "This is ghetto. Can you, we need you to come back and do another episode." And so he came back and did a two-part episode with us, um, and that definitely got a lot of, of views and, and all of that stuff. But yeah, those two probably were good for me.

I, I like a lot of our stuff, to be honest with you, so

Sir Daniel: You should. You should be, 'cause you're your biggest fan. You have to be your biggest fan. I know Jay Ray and I, when we look back at, like, those first few episodes, we were like, "Were we in caves?" And it was so... It's, it's like when you think about how far, you know, how technology and, uh, and just the growth that you've, that you experienced over the years of doing the podcast, it truly is a labor of love, and I'm so glad that you all have stuck it out, and I'm super excited to continue this conversation, uh, with you on this episode of Queue Points podcast

Jay Ray: So we invited y'all here because we are gonna make a mixtape.

DMC: Mm-hmm. Um, and so the idea is, or the rule is we each have a song that tells the truth about some specific chapter, time in our lives. This can be sad, sentimental, happy. It- there's no rules about the kind of song that it is. That is completely up to us. Um, but this is our opportunity, our mixtape, to be able to kind of tell a little bit about us through music.

Jay Ray: So when we get to this, um, and we can all lean in, right? So but we do have to hit the three main points, right? So, uh, where were you when you kinda physically got into this song, right? Where does your mind go or what the first image is when you hear it today? And then what did that song do for you? Like, what did that song, uh, uh, give you permission to do or, or whatever that might be?

Like, why was this song so meaningful? So, and you can give us any other information about the song that you wanna give, too. So, um, I think we can jump into the mixtape. Um, and we can start with our guests. Either one of y'all can go. What's y- what's your song? Who's the artist? And, um,

tell us why this song

Jeff: Okay. So my song is Take Me With You by Prince from the Purple Rain soundtrack Um, so this song is important to me, or, or it has a core memory for me because I, as a kid, and I've talked about this on our show, I didn't really get into toys. Like, I had a couple of He-Mans, Transformers, this, that, and the other, other, but that really wasn't my thing.

I've always been into electronics. And so when I was in the fifth grade, 1980-something, um, I remember I asked my dad for a CD player because I wanted a CD, CD player. I was like, "Oh, this is cool. This is neat. This is gonna be crystal clear sound," blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Mind you, I'm, like, 11. Uh, but yeah, that, that's what I wanted.

And, um, that was the first CD that I purchased. I remember going to, uh, TG&Y to purchase, uh, the s- the CD. I remember it being, like, $17.99.

Jay Ray: CDs were high

Jeff: high. Like, you, you, like I don't, I didn't have that many.

Jay Ray: Right.

Jeff: But yeah, I remember it was $17.99 for the CD, and, you know, I heard it. And, and part, part of that, my, my brother and sister, they were, they're big Prince fans.

And so, um, we had everything. We had the, the, um, "1999" album, um, the controversy, all of that. Uh, so I was very familiar with his music. Uh, the mu- movie, you know, I wasn't supposed to watch it, but by the time it got on HBO, whatever it was on, I was able to see it. But yeah, that, that song stuck to me. And what I like about that song, or liked about it then, was 'cause it A lot of the music on that disc, on that soundtrack, was a lot of rock, and it sounded more, um, electronic and synthesized. And I liked that that music, even though I didn't have the word for it then, but it sounds more acoustic. And so it was so different from the other songs on the album for me, and it just kinda like, "Oh, I really like this.

I like the beat, I like the drums, I like the ching," um, song that, the sound that's in it. Like, it was just really good. And, um, even though Apollonia is not the best singer, but, you know, she brings what she brings to it, and it just works so well as a s- uh, as a duet. I, I feel like, um, it's just one of those songs that, for me, that's where I was when I first heard it, was in my room connected to my receiver that I had.

'Cause again, had these big 110-watt speakers, uh, a receiver, CD player, the tape deck, and the turntable, um, all separate components, just big ass shit in my room. Um, but yeah. Yeah, that, that was a core memory for me

Sir Daniel: I do have one question.

Jeff: Mm-hmm

Sir Daniel: Did your, did that CD come in a clear case or

Jeff: I know what you're about to ask. It was in the long box.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Sir Daniel: So, so now you, now audience, you can pinpoint how old Jeff is 'cause, you know, he's trying to be, he was trying to be discreet about it, but he admitted it was in a long box.

Jeff: If I knew the exact year I, I would've told you. But yeah, it, it was, I had the long box that you had to open up, not the little seedy crystal case. No, you had to, you had the long box and then the crystal case was inside that

DMC: And how much was cabbage?

Jeff: That was not on my purchase list at the time. But I'ma tell you this, at the time I knew what a cabbage was 'cause I was told to go to the store and I brought back a lettuce instead of a cabbage once, and I never made that mistake again.

Jay Ray: I live for that. Oh my God. Now I had to... Oh, you know what? This is actually bringing up another question. So as a young Black boy buying a Prince CD, well, you said your, your siblings were Prince fans, so it was not weird. Okay. 'Cause I know in some households that might be weird, but okay, so in your household that would, that wouldn't

Jeff: Oh, yeah,

Jay Ray: Okay.

Jeff: We, we had it

Jay Ray: Cool

Sir Daniel: um, and, and was there There was something, was there something in this song that, you know, what we d- tend to do is we let the songs sing for us or express things for us. Was there something that Prince was able to express for you or what, did you find your voice somewhere in that song?

Jeff: At the time, no. I felt like to me it was just the rhythm of the song, the melody of the song, the violins in the song. Like I said, it's very acoustic track, and it just stands out off the disc for me. Um, but during that period of my life, you know, I didn't have the concept, uh, to say that it meant anything for me.

It wouldn't be until later on that it kinda took on a little bit of a different meaning, and I appreciate it more now than I do, than I did then

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm. I love that. I love that. Hmm. What you got?

DMC: All right, are y'all ready?

Sir Daniel: Oh, b- bated breath

DMC: Okay. It's Come Inside by Intro

Jay Ray: Oh, I love that song. Ah

Sir Daniel: you know about intro?

DMC: Sir,

Jay Ray: Kenny G Love Greene?

DMC: yeah. Okay? And the other two guys. Um, yes. Whom I cannot think of their names right now, but, uh, I definitely knew them at the time. So, Come Inside by Intro, the first time I heard this, when I was in high school, uh, I, I played in band since fifth grade, so I am a musician, um, in that respect.

And so in high school, uh, I marched in marching band in high school. And so our marching band was... We'd practice, you know, we'd start practice at, like, 9:00, and maybe run from 9:00 to, like, 11:30 or something like that, and then we'd get a, a hour and a half or so for lunch, and then we'd come back and, you know, from 1:00 to maybe, like, 3:30.

And so the thing was, uh, when we would go to lunch, you could either bring your lunch or if you knew of an upperclassman, 'cause I was a sophomore at the time when this album came out, uh, you could, um, you could ride with an upperclassman and they would go off campus somewhere. Uh, so they would go to a McDonald's down the street, or we would go to the mall and eat or whatever.

So I rode with, uh... That day, I happened to ride with a couple of girls that were, um, uh, in the band, and it was probably, like, three or four of us all together. And so my homegirl who was driving had a really nice system in her car, and she had, she had it on tape. She had the Intro album on tape, 'cause it came out in March of that year, and band camp was, like, in August.

And so she had it on, on tape. I'm sure it was on tape, 'cause I don't think it was... I don't think she had a CD player in her car. And so she put it in. Yeah, probably. Uh, because I didn't even know, I didn't even know the CD players were in the '80s. I was like, "What?" Down... What do you mean? Like, I thought that all that came out in the '90s.

Anyway, 'cause I was, I was, oh, I was taped down, okay? So, um, you know, winding it back. But so we... She played it in the car, and I remem- I remember the exact spot where I was when the song came on. And again, she had a really nice system in her car. And I was just like, "Why have I never heard this song?" Like, and I had, I had not had the tape.

I knew the group, and I had known some of the songs from, you know, the radio and stuff like that. But I was like, "This song is hot as..." Can I curse?

Jay Ray: Sure

Jeff: I've

DMC: this song is hot as fuck. Yeah, I was like, "This is crazy." And so I'm, I'm a slow jam type of dude, so I will just listen to slow jams. Like, if I'm cleaning up the house, I got slow jams playing.

If a special somebody or bodies come by, you know, I'm gonna play some slow jams. You know, if I'm in the car on the way to work, sometimes I'll listen to that stuff. But I was like, "This is so dope." And the reason it kinda hit so hard for me was during that time of my life, high school and, and I mean even college as well, like I was so carefree.

Like I enjoyed everything about everything that was going on at the time. I had, you know, friends. I was popular enough, you know, um, not like the guy that everybody wanted to be and the, the, the one that all the girls wanted to be with. Like it wasn't that type of deal, but it was, it was a really carefree and really cool and dope time, and I made a lot of good friends around that time.

And it just so happened that that song, like literally when, uh, you were... You sent out the, the information about, "Hey, come up with a song," that's the first song that went to my mind. And I was like, "Okay, why do I always go to that song?" Like if somebody says, "What's, what's a song that like you remember?" It's always that one.

There's a lot of other songs that I love to death, but that song really like takes me back to a space where I didn't have bills. I didn't have all these high society demonstrations of whatev, fuck them, whatever it is. Like we didn't have all of that stuff then. So sometimes when I'm in those moments and I'm like s- not stressed, but I'm just like tired and weary and everything else, I always kinda go back to those moments.

So that and the fact that, you know, I'm nasty sometimes, so

Jay Ray: Well, so I have a, a, a quick question. So for that song, when you, when you reflect on its meaning for you, did it, did it unlock... Did that song, s- the fact that that song came up for you first, yeah, so can you talk about, like, was it, uh, was it things that you had, had thought about? Was it, or was this song kind of like broadening your, your view about, uh, life, sex, love?

Talk about that a little bit

DMC: It, it really helped, like you said, broaden a little bit because songs at that time weren't as crass, I'll use that term, as kinda they are now. Like, they weren't like, "Oh, you know, get your dick and put this here and do..." Like, like it wasn't like that in your face kinda thing. There was a lot of innuendo.

And so I liked, because I was a wordsmith and I liked writing and stuff like that, like I really enjoy songs that are creative in that way, and that can talk about something without sometimes directly talking about it, but you know exactly that that's what it is. Um, and so that was the type of music that we were listening to kinda in the '90s.

It was a little bit more in your face than it was like in the '80s, but it was, it pushed the line just enough. And so it... And, and even if you go and listen to the, the album version of it with that outro at the end,

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

DMC: it was like, okay, I'm in the backseat of my homegirl's car and I'm like, "Okay, we might need to turn this off because, um

Sir Daniel: It's taking you there

Jay Ray: taking you

DMC: Nature's rising, you know, and I need to get out of this car in a minute, you know? So that kind of thing, you know. Uh, so yeah, it was, it was that. Mm-hmm. Yeah, go ahead

Sir Daniel: I

have another question, um, a follow-up. So, okay, let's, we're gonna, um, have space for Clinton Buddy Wyke, Jeff Sanders

DMC: Thank you. Yes, Jeff and, yep. Mm-hmm. I remember Jeff

Sir Daniel: and Kenny

DMC: and Kenny. Mm-hmm

Sir Daniel: so, so here's the thing. So do you recall how the death of Kenny Greene

impacted you? Because that was, he passed away in 2001. Um, he passed away to due to complications of HIV, um, on, that was, um, that was just, um, t- told publicly, that was made public.

And of course, his sexuality c- um, was made public after that as well. How did that impact you? Because you were in high school at the time, and, you know, um, as Gen Xers like me and Jay Ray, we talk about, uh, we have lots of episodes where we talk about how music coincided with the AIDS epidemic and how it made us feel.

And how, how did his, um, passing impact you?

DMC: I was so desensitized at the time to things that were what would have been considered like gay issues or what I-- Because at that time I wasn't interested in guys. I wasn't dating guys. I wasn't, I didn't have those desires to be with guys, so I was exclusively dating women. And so the thing that, the thing that really impacted me about his death was it was just like, "Oh, wow," like, "We lost another really good vocalist, and I wonder what's gonna happen to the group now," because this is one of my favorite groups.

You know, Boyz II Men is my all-time favorite group, male, you know, R&B group. En Vogue is my all-time favorite female group. So but there were all these other groups that I was like, "I enjoy them, I enjoy them, I enjoy them." So I think it was more or less a loss of another distinctive musical voice that I connected to, more so than it was, "Oh, he died of this sort of complication and this," and, and his sexuality was, you know, part of that.

Like, none of that hit me until maybe way later when I started Dating guys, thinking about, you know, dating in, in that way. And I was like, "Okay, that's interesting." And it, it's just interesting now that I'm thinking about both of me and Jeff's songs that, like, we both have had, like, these gay kinda undertones or these androgynous kinda undertones within both of the artists that we were really interested in or, or the songs that we chose.

So, um, yeah. But it didn't... It, it impacted me in that way, but not, like, in a way that it was like, "Oh man," like I'm really thinking about this. 'Cause I felt really detached from the idea of the AIDS epidemic. I knew it was going on, I knew everything that was happening, but it, it, it was that, "Oh, that's over there,"

Jay Ray: Hmm.

DMC: kinda thing at the time.

Mm-hmm.

Jay Ray: Uh, thank you for being vulnerable

DMC: Oh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely

Jay Ray: appreciate

Sir Daniel: other question. So if, if Jeff and, um, Darius are in the, in the vehicle together and say y'all are going on a ride, on a road trip, who's in control of the aux?

DMC: I have... Oh my God

Jeff: My rule is whoever is driving gets to dictate the music. But at the same time, you know, I'm also one that I'm open to requests, so

DMC: Okay, so let me say this. I'm kind of the opposite of that. If I'm driving, I don't mind if somebody else kind of takes control. Jeff and I have very different... I ain't gonna say very different taste, but, but different taste in music. We actually put together playlists, uh, every kinda quarter, uh, or, or, or season. And the first one that we put together was like, "Hey, we put this playlist together.

Go through and see which songs you think are him, and which songs you think are, you know, Darius or DMC." And it's so clear to me that it's like, "Okay, mm, yeah, that's mine. That's mine. That's mine." And even people that know me, I'll say, "Okay, listen to this, to the album and tell me which ones do you think is mine and which one is, is, is his."

And normally they can pick them out. They're like, "Okay, yeah, that's, that's you. That's, that's him. That's him," you know? So I don't know. I don't know how that would work. Yeah

Jeff: that is because Darius' musical choices, Jeff's musical choices.

DMC: out any farther, yeah, it would be even farther than that. 'Cause it's

Jeff: And there's nothing wrong with that

DMC: Yeah, and it's not. And it's like, really? What, what kind of song is this? Like, what, what are we talking about here? Yeah, and me, it's just like, oh, clearly I know that that's him right there, so.

Mm-hmm

Jay Ray: It's, it's interesting. Like, I'm one of those people, when I'm driving, I do not mind that someone else controls, uh, the music. It's, it's fine. Um, I grew into that though. That wasn't always true. Um, but I do require breadth 'cause I generally play like a lot of ... My mixes tend to be very layered, and there's a lot of different sounds in them.

So if someone is, like, doing it, I, I love some breadth. But I also, uh, just like people who play the stuff that they really like in their car, and so I can get into it too. Like, if you into it and this is your jam, cool. That's what we rocking with. I don't know no BTS songs, but if you like BTS and that's what we doing, sure.

DMC: Yeah, I'll get through it. Yeah, I'll definitely get through it. Yeah, and I might not do anything after that. But like it's interesting 'cause our play- I would love for you two to listen to our playlist or some of our playlists. I would love that and get your, your feedback on it. Um, but yeah, like even when, when I listen to our play- when we put our playlist together, I will run the entire playlist.

So even though I would never have chosen some of the stuff that Jeff puts on the playlist, like I don't even know some of the stuff Jeff puts on the playlist, but I'm like, "You know what? I'll listen to it," and I find myself bobbing to it. Like, like I just listened to one of our playlists before and I was like, yeah, you know, I'm singing the song.

Like I've learnt the song because I listen to our stuff, you know. But-

Jay Ray: I love that

DMC: Mm-hmm

Jeff: Yeah. I feel like you could-- This is where non-plug, but we're on that platform. Spotify is good because in Spotify you can create a jam, and, you know, people can scan the QR code at the party or whatever, open it up on their phone and the device, and it'll be like, "Oh, well, I like this song.

Well, just queue it up." And you just send it to the speaker or the car, and that's all y- it takes to kinda like share the music. So I think that's a feature that people should use a lot more often. But yeah. Yeah, I think it would be fine. I don't think we'd be in the car fighting or anything like that. It would just be

very different.

DMC: yeah, if that's, if that's the case. Yeah. I'm good. Yeah

Jay Ray: Um, so I am curious, Sir Daniel, what's your song? What's your, what's your song that you picked for the playlist?

Sir Daniel: All right. Okay, so my song, and it just so happens to be right behind me, is Soul II Soul, "Back to Life."

Jay Ray: Great choice

Sir Daniel: to Life" for me, hmm, "Back to Life," we talking about 1989. This song and that group define a generation. And the song, that one in particular, because before, before "Back to Life," their huge hit was "Keep On Movin'."

And but "Back to Life" was a little bit more up-tempo, was a little bit more joyful. Um, and then years later, decades later, we found, find out what motivated Caron Wheeler's, um, penning of, of the lyrics to the song, the, the life and death experience that she had. And it makes total sense because I feel like "Back to Life" is a battle cry for a generation, um, because, you know, uh, we, we were latchkey kids.

We survived the war on drugs, the Just Say No campaigns. We, we, um, outlived the crack epidemic. We saw lots of... We saw friends and families being, um, affected directly, whether it was by actual drug use or, um, drug dealer violence in the streets. The way we, we carried ourselves in the streets, all of that was affected by crack, the crack epidemic.

And then of course, we're survivors of the, or we are the... We're on that end, in that end of the generation where we witnessed a lot of people dying from the AIDS epidemic. And so, and then we, we in fact are living at the height of the HIV and AIDS epidemic. And "Back to Life" was like, yo, 1989, we're about to go into a whole new decade.

Jay Ray: Yeah

Sir Daniel: This song is a battle cry. It is a call to action. Everybody, we have been living under Reaganomics and, you know, even though this next president wasn't that much better, we are about to embark on a new gener- on a new world, the '90s. And so it was just like, oh, we're on the precipice of technology. We just didn't know.

We knew something great was happening, but we just didn't know. And for me personally, the song landed for me because it was 1989. Um, our family had changed dynamics because I grew up an only child raised by a single parent. Um, she had gotten re... My mother had gotten remarried, and in that process, my, um, my mother and stepfather agreed that we were gonna start over brand new in St.

Petersburg, Florida, of all places. And I'm coming from New York. And so this is a, a complete culture shock for me. And so There's this transition, all these transitions that I'm going through at this young, this young age. I'm 13 going on 14, and while we're down there in St. Petersburg, Florida, um, they get divorced, and that's kinda ugly.

And then there's this whole, well, we gotta get out of here because there's too many bad memories, so we need to go back to New York. Going back to New York didn't work out, so we ended up coming to Atlanta. So I just remember that being a constant, uh, moment of change and evolution for me at such a young age of not feeling grounded anywhere in particular, but feeling like this music is constant for me.

The music is a constant for me. MTV, B- BET, those things are constant. They're, they're touchstones for me that can help me feel grounded. And at that age, I was feeling like those, the, that that was something that I could tether myself to, to, to regulate myself emotionally. And because, you know, a lot of kids could, could wild out going through those things, but I didn't.

I, I had music. I, I definitely feel like I had music. And the video, the video looked like, was so inspiring, them on rooftops dancing. These are people in the U- Black people in the UK. But, um, yeah, it, it just, it just was able to, like I said, to, to be emotionally grounding for me. And not for nothing, the song is iconic.

Jay Ray: It is

Sir Daniel: The, the use of that song in the beginning scene of Belly is iconic in and of itself because that, there's a special mix of "Back to Life" that they use in Belly. We all know there's a acapella part, and then the beat drops and if you've ever seen people in a party space when that beat drops, it's pure elation.

It's, it's this communal, um, thing that happens in DJ's experiences when people are together and they experience a sound at the same time, and you can see a, a movement in their bodies and s- in spirit. And that, that just does it for me every single time. And the last thing I will say about the song is that it also changed, um, it changed production as far as music is concerned.

Because if you ask any DJ or, or hip hop producer, they will tell you, they will refer to a song as having that Soul II Soul beat. And that's because it became the same way James Brown's "Funky Drummer" and The Honey Drippers' "Impeach the President," and I might be getting, doing too much for, for people that aren't into samples and whatnot.

Those particular break beats are s- have become synonymous in hip hop music, and people know them when they hear them. Soul II Soul did that with that beat that you, the underlying beat that you hear under, um, "Back to Life." It's kinda like a, a ch- a chugging train, a, a chicka-chicka, chicka-chicka, chicka.

And a lot of people, uh, um, in that, especially in the New Jack swing era that was coming about, and a lot of hip hop artists used that same beat. That beat changed things. I mean, so many people sampled it. We had DNA by, and, and Suzanne Vega's "Tom's Diner," and Vogue

Jeff: song.

Sir Daniel: Saying? En Vogue's Hold On, Maxi Priest Close To You.

I mean, so many people sampled it and, and just for those sample heads out here, um, they actually got it from Graham Central Station. Uh, The Jam is where that beat comes from. So if you wanna, if you wanna hear where it came from, a lot of people think it's Ash, it's, um, uh, Soul Searchers?

Ashley's Roachclip. A lot of people think it's that, but it's not. It's actually Graham Central Station. So that's just a little music lesson. But I say all of that to say that song impacted me and impacted a whole generation, and that's why I'm including it in our mixtape

Jeff: All right

Jay Ray: I love that song.

DMC: May I ask a question?

Jay Ray: Of course you may

DMC: Given all of what you just said about it being a war cry and it being this thing that was unifying in nature, at the time in, in '89, did you feel all of what you just explained to us at that time as well? Or was that something that evolved as you grew into who you are now, and you began to see that, you know what?

That's exactly what this was. I like the song, but now I'm seeing all of it, all the dynamic, you know, the, the, the dynamics behind it

Sir Daniel: Yeah. Um, uh, you're right. I think it, of course at that age I wasn't thinking that,

DMC: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: um, globally and I wasn't dissecting things l- of that nature, but you're absolutely right, and I can see how it affected us now, especially in this podcast space that we're sharing. And, um, and being, um, being the part of the architecture of this, creating this archive of Black music history, I see now how important that song is.

You're absolutely right. Like as a child, I did not know how deep it affected me and how it was affecting all of us, but as I said, when you ha- if you ever see, if you're ever in a, a, a dance hall session when a DJ drops this song, you will see how it affects us, specifically, um, uh, members of, uh, of our generation.

You see how it affects us, and I think it, it's because of that and all of the collective, um, history that we were experiencing at that time

DMC: Got you. Awesome

Jay Ray: love that.

Sir Daniel: Jay Ray, you're up

Jay Ray: listen, um,

Sir Daniel: the, the aux cord is in your hands

Jay Ray: I'm going really contemporary, and actually I'm going to do something a little unconventional for me and take people really behind the scenes of, uh, a moment in time that was really a transitional period in my life. Um, so we are rewinding to 2009, actually. Um, I should make a note before I mention the song.

Um, 2008, three of my favorite albums of all time, like, came out that literally changed the way that I hear music. Um, I have these moments in my, my, uh, my history where albums will come out, and then it will shift everything that happens after that. So 2008 was actually a year where that happened three times.

So, but 2009, um, Tortured Soul released their Did You Miss Me album. And I was living in Michigan at the time. I was in a relationship at the time that was in a really weird spot that I couldn't explain. And so the song I am inserting into the mixtape is Tortured Soul's Unsteady. And so Unsteady is a song where, um, it is about a man who is feeling like something is wrong.

He knows the ground that he is standing on is shifting, and the person that he is with is part of that shift, and he is asking the question of, what, what do we do here? You know what I mean? And it was the first time in my relationship life, my adult relationship life, where I had felt that, where I was like, "Wait, something is happening, and I don't know what it is and how to make this better."

So, um, I first heard the song, um, and this actually goes back to immediately what comes to mind when I hear the song. That particular winter was one of the worst winters in, in, in, uh, Michigan history, and I lived an hour from the office. I used to work from home. I got a promotion which forced me to come into the office more frequently, which meant I was driving in the snow for two and a half hours every morning to get to the office.

Um, and you know, I had to be there, so I would queue up podcasts and CDs And this particular CD came on, so I absolutely envision me sitting in the dark, in the snow, driving down the highway with this song in my ear, and me repeating it because I'm like, "Yes, this, this is what, this is what I'm feeling.

This is exactly it," right? And it actually... It gave me the courage to have the conversation. Now, I didn't get the answer from the conversation. The answer revealed itself later. So I was unsteady for a reason. S- But the song gave me the language, to put to music what I was feeling, and it gave me the language to have the conversation, and that's why it is so impactful.

Um, everything after that, uh, shifted. I shifted jobs after that. We broke up. Um, sorta kinda, we got we- back together real fast after that, but we broke up. I moved. All of these things happened, like, after that. 2010, I ended up in Atlanta, so there was a lot of change in the works, and "Unsteady" really does, uh, uh, document, uh, uh, a period of my life, and a lot of people don't know that story.

So that is the song I'm dropping into the mixtape because it's a house joint. It's dope. And the beauty of house music, right, is you are on the dance floor dancing your heart out to this song that is like, "Oh my God.

DMC: Mm-hmm.

Jay Ray: My life is falling apart and this is... And I'm gonna dance it away."

Sir Daniel: twirling.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Sir Daniel: And I'm twirling, but I'm going to twirl my pain away.

Jay Ray: Yes.

Sir Daniel: Man,

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Sir Daniel: that.

DMC: Yes. Yeah, absolutely

Sir Daniel: totally get that. And okay, so has anybody else, is there like a song that you were experiencing like right before a breakup or during a breakup, and every time you hear it, you automatically think about that person? Yep. Yes, Jeff.

DMC: Yeah, yeah. I was like,

Jeff: I don't.

Sir Daniel: Yes, Jeff, come

Jeff: I'm laughing because I s- I, I disassociate with people when I break up. Like I, I'm not one of those people that like has a song that I would be like, "Oh, we broke up and now I gotta listen to this song." Like it does not ... I like breakup songs, but I'm more of the What I wanna say? Like Ariana Grande, "Problem."

You know, it's a breakup song, but it's pop. It's great. It's one of the best pop songs I think has ever come out. I think about that song, um, as far as like something that I would listen to just to listen to it just 'cause I like it. But when I'm done with a relationship, music doesn't really affect me like that.

Like I'll be... You know, I'm not one of those, "I gotta put my Mary J. Blige on to get over." Mm-mm. That, that's not

Sir Daniel: not even so much trying to get over, but like maybe there was a song that un- unbeknownst to you, they may have just introduced it to you or an artist and but even though, and you've adapted, you adopted that artist to become your own, but unfortunately they're linked to that person from here on out

Jeff: Jeff's

Sir Daniel: Jeff was like, "Mm, I don't have them

Jeff: They, that, they would get that from me before I got that from them. So no, I don't. I'm sorry. I just don't have any association. But, uh, my, my chuckling was because I was like, "I don't give a damn about none of that." 'Cause I know that that does not affect me. I don't associate the music with relationship, and no one that I've dated has really put me onto anything, uh, when it-- musically.

I'm gonna put it like that. So I'll say they would've gotten something from me. Now they may have an issue, but I, I don't know. It's, it's-- that's just not my experience.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm. What about you, Darius?

DMC: I do, but I can't think of those songs. It's like usually... And I get exactly what you're saying. Like, it may not necessarily be a song that I associate with the breakup or I associate to get over the breakup, but it's a song that I might have been listening to around that time and that breakup happened, and so whenever I hear that song, it takes me back to that moment.

And, and there's a few, but oh my God, like I can't really, I can't really think of... There's a, there's a couple of songs that There's an artist that graduated from my school, uh, my undergraduate alma mater, um, and her name is Shamia. Uh, she was actually on ABC's Rising Star, uh, for a little while, and she has... She does a lot of, like, parody songs. Like, she has a song called Spices, uh, and basically it's like Black people will keep spices for 20 whole years, and, like, that's the whole purpose of the song.

Um,

Sir Daniel: It's a

DMC: yeah, so that, that's her, and she, she's a amazing vocalist. But I had gotten turned on to some of her music, and with the last breakup that I had, I had downloaded a bunch of her songs, like, to, through Apple. And I remember when I was going to see my ex at the time, it was around Christmas, and I remember listening to her music in the rental car when I was on my way to his house, and that was the last trip that... Like, we haven't, we haven't really seen each other, like, since then 'cause we broke up during that period. And I remember when I listen to those specific songs, it takes me back to, "Oh, you know what? I was in the car at this point when I was listening to this song and I was listening to that." So I have associations with those, those songs, but it, they don't take me to a place where it's like, "Oh, let me turn this s**t off."

Like, it's, it's not anything like that. But definitely, uh, some of her stuff

Jay Ray: Mm.

Sir Daniel: I'm kinda embarrassed to say this, but, um,

DMC: It was keep

on moving.

Sir Daniel: uh, uh, Paula Cole's I Don't Wanna Wait for Our Lives to Be Over, the Dawson's Creek theme

DMC: Okay. Okay. Okay

Jay Ray: that

Sir Daniel: because one... I just remember one of our fr- One-- So this is the '90s, y'all, and people went out, and sometimes we would go to the, the record store because m- music is a thing that I connect with people on.

And we went to, went to HMV, and we got on a listening station. Listening stations, ladies and gentlemen, for those of you who are not old enough, were the-- where they would put CDs, multiple CDs in one player against the wall so that you can sample the CD before you bought it, and that way they would retain sales.

So if you knew what you bought, you knew what you listened to and you liked it, you knew that you were gonna buy it and that you weren't gonna return it. But anyway, I just remember having that, that moment in the middle of HMV, uh, record store, uh, kinda with this person and looking at them and like, I'm a...

Am, am, am, am, am I having a, a Dawson's Creek moment with this person? Like, it, it just, you know, I, I look back on it and I'm like, "This is so corny," but what's wrong with a little whimsy and corniness? I think if more, especially Black men,

Jay Ray: We need more of it

Sir Daniel: more whimsy and corniness and had a little, you know, Dawson's Creek moment

Jeff: Black Boy Joy

Sir Daniel: yeah, with somebody, you know, we would be a lot more safer than we are now with each other, so...

DMC: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: But I thoroughly enjoyed this, Jay Ray. Like, if you... You know, music, uh, like we see is a timestamp in our lives and, like, say we're just putting together a time capsule, y'all. What's that one song that you're putting in the time capsule that, and just will tell people who you are and, uh, just tells your story?

Jeff: Darius

DMC: Oh, sure. Uh, The Good Life by Kanye and T-Pain

Jay Ray: Good deal. Yeah

DMC: And only because honestly, real talk, and I'm not, this is not a brag or anything, I have had a good life. I really have. I mean, I can look back on everything that I have, quote, "been through," and I can look at other people's struggles, and I have not had those struggles.

I have, I have been thoroughly supported in most of my endeavors. You know, I have moments here and there, and I have relationships with, with certain people that are strained and are not, you know, the best, but of course we all have that. But overall, like, God has been good to me, and I have, I have prospered, you know, above and beyond, and I've, I've been able to do things that I put my mind to, and I've been able to accomplish things that a lot of people haven't.

So, I mean, that would be my, my time capsule song, real talk. Either that one or I was toggling between that one or "Golden" by, um, Jill

Jeff: Jill Scott

DMC: Yeah, so

Jay Ray: Good deal. Jeff, what you got?

Jeff: Okay. Um, mine is gonna be "Get It Right" by Aretha Franklin.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: on, get it right

Jeff: so I like this song similar to Darius is because it's, it's positive. Like it's telling you, "Hey, you know, let's get the day started. Let's get out here, get it working, and just keep at it, you know, stick with it." Um, it's positive. It drives you. It gives me a drive, I'll say.

It's a catchy song. Um, it's another one of those Luther Vandross produced tracks. Um, you know, so you know it's got a funky beat to it. Like it's, um, puts me in a good mood every time I listen to it because it's so positive. And similar to what Darius said, like it's one of those things that if I'm gonna wanna remember anything and leave for anyone, I would want it to be positive.

And my life has actually been pretty good. Like there's some things that of course I wish could be a little bit better, but on the, on the most part, I think I'm in a pretty good space. I've had, um, you know, I'm at the time, I'm, I'm 50, so I've had a lot of time to like sit back and start thinking about, okay, so I'm at this section of the life and I got to be a little bit realistic about what my tomorrows are gonna be.

And so it's made me a lot more reflective and look back and be like, "Okay, so was it really that bad that day that I thought about this, that, and the other? Hmm, probably not. But, you know, did I appreciate this thing that I probably should have a little bit more or could have? Hmm, I probably could have."

You know? So I think overall, you know, things have been going pretty well for me, and that song is just something that will lift my spirits up if I take the time to like listen to it and just kinda like vibe out, put my headphones in and just let it take me to where it takes me.

Jay Ray: Hmm.

Sir Daniel: Nice.

Jay Ray: that

Sir Daniel: Jay Ray

Jay Ray: So I am dropping in the time capsule Never Stop by the Brand New Heavies.

Sir Daniel: I love

DMC: a good one

Sir Daniel: I love

Jay Ray: yeah, um, 1991, when that song came out, it felt so different than everything else that was on the radio at the time. They were still using live instruments. Everybody had shifted to, uh, keyboards and electronics and drum machines, and they came with this organic sound.

And of course, N'Dea Davenport, um, come in with just, like, this lush vocal on top. But m- more than anything, to this day, Never Stop is one of those songs that if it shuffles up in the car, the whole song is playing. And I genui- I just genuinely feel happy listening to that song. There is, you know, the story of love, but there's just, like, an empowerment to it of never stop, never give it up.

Even though it's about love, it can be about so many other things in life. And so if somebody picks up our time capsule, um, that's one of the joints I want them to hear is, uh, yeah, uh, Brand New Heavies, Never Stop. What you got, Sir Daniel?

Sir Daniel: This time capsule is gonna be on fire. Um, so I, I thought about this and I'm landing on Prince, "I Would Die For You."

DMC: Mm.

Sir Daniel: And I say that because it's the... Well, first, when you think about the placement of the song in the "Purple Rain" movie, it's towards the end. Um, there's a lot of lessons about, um, love and connection and, um, devotion, and which I, I find to be, um, a ongoing theme in my life about how I really-- When the people that enter my life enter my life, they've entered my life.

And so it just speaks to a dedication that I feel, and it's al- it's almost anthemic. And I, uh, you know, and so I, I, you know, I'm a little dramatic in that sense is, is that when I'm dec- making declarations, um, the, the song has to be anthemic and "I Would Die For You" is, is that song for me because I want people to know like, "Hey, if I, if I love you, you really should never, ever question that I loved you because...

And, and I'm hoping that I showed it in the best ways that I could in my particular love language." But, um, yeah, for the people, for the aliens that come by and they see our time capsule and be like, "S- what, what's this?" And they hear that, they gonna be rocking because our cuts are in there, and that's my cut, that's my, um, contribution to the time capsule.

Jeff: So I wanna say about that song because I have the soundtrack. Uh, one of my favorite things

DMC: it the long box?

Jeff: y- that well, I, the CD is in the CD

DMC: it was a lo- the long box?

Jeff: favorite things about the placement of that song on the album is that once on the CD, 'cause I have the CD, as it ends, it goes immediately to "Baby, I'm a Star."

And that is the first time I heard that I was like, "This is crazy." 'Cause like you would always get like a song and it would fade out and then the next song would start with the intro. No, it goes like bap, bap, bap and it's seamless. And I, that was just one of the greatest things,

Sir Daniel: Mm-hmm. And didn't it feel like you were in church? It felt like if it, that,

Jay Ray: does feel like you're in church.

Sir Daniel: feels like church. That's a praise and worship section in that, um, that album

Jay Ray: Well, Sir Daniel, well, well Sir Daniel has talked about this, like Purple Rain is like a scri- a spiritual, like, a Christian contemporary sort of spiritual record. We gotta do that show. Uh, and so Jeff, you might need to circle back around and we talk about Purple Rain.

Jeff: yeah. It's a no skip, it's a no skip disc

Jay Ray: yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Literally Prince became a superstar off of the, the back of that record. Um, this has been

amazing.

Before we get outta here, uh, Just Drawz, tell us where to, where to, where to, where should the people connect with y'all? Tell us all the things

Jeff: Okay, so we are on YouTube. Uh, if you go into the Google and type Just Drawz, J-U-S-T D-R-A-W-Z, we will be the first thing that comes up, so that's where you'll find the video version of our podcast. Uh, we also have, to make it easy, we have a Linktree. So if you go to L-I-N-K-T-R.E-E/justdrawz, just like I spelled it, uh, that'll take you to all the links to our social media.

Uh, that's gonna take you to our music playlist. Uh, that'll get you to the TikTok and, um, Instagram, Twitter, X, and even the Blue Sky link is there. Um, but if you wanna go right now, you can go to Instagram, thejustDrawzpodcast, uh, and that'll pull up our social-- Our main social media is on Instagram, but we're on Facebook as well

DMC: And go listen to those playlists too.

Jay Ray: Please

DMC: a, there's a lot of good stuff on there, so

Jay Ray: This has been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for taking the time. You're so welcome. Thank y'all for coming through. And just so y'all know, we also, um, if y'all pay attention, y'all should subscribe to Just Drawz because there are two people who make an appearance over there that y'all know.

So

DMC: Possibly, yeah.

Jay Ray: So

DMC: They might be, they might be in the queue. You never know.

Jay Ray: do that.

Sir Daniel: s- I see what you did there. I see what you did there. Yes, the cross-so-- this is the crossover event of 2026.

Jay Ray: Yes.

DMC: Correct

Jay Ray: Yeah, y'all. But listen, uh, thank you all so much for joining us. If you can see our faces and hear our voices, make sure that you subscribe wherever you are, and make sure that you subscribe to Just Drawz wherever they are as well. Um, visit our website at queuepoints.com. There you can navigate to, um, our Substack.

You can watch all of our archive episodes, and you can become a member and become a Queue Points insider, which unlocks, uh, the ability to see all of our other behind-the-scenes content and some other dope stuff that we have available on the website. So listen, thank y'all so much. We appreciate y'all, and we love

DMC: Thank you. Yes, love you right back and times 10

Sir Daniel: Most definitely

Jeff: to meeting up again one day

Sir Daniel: For sure. And it's like I say after every episode, in this life you have a choice. You can either pick up the needle or let the record play. I am DJ Sir Daniel

Jay Ray: And my name is Jay Ray y'all

Jeff: And I'm Jeff

DMC: And I'm Darius, AKA DMC, and we are

just

Drawz

Sir Daniel: And this is Queue Points podcast, dropping the needle on Black music history. We will see you on the next go-round. Peace, y'all.