"Iesha," Kris Kross and the Child Icons of 90s Music

Episode Transcript

*DISCLAIMER: Transcripts are created using AI, and may not accurately represent the content exactly as presented. Transcripts are provided as a courtesy to our listeners who require them.

[00:00:00] How To Support Queue Points
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Jay Ray: Hey, what's up? Good people. It's Jay Ray, the cohost of Queue Points. And I wanted to come to you because there are two really important ways that you can support our show. One is by subscribing to it, wherever you listen to, or watch your podcast. Queue Points is pretty much everywhere. The other thing that you can do is you can visit us on Apple podcasts.

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We're always appreciative of you supporting Queue Points. We thank you so much for all that you've done for us so far and enjoy the show.

[00:00:50] Sponsored Ad: What's Poppin' Penny? Juneteenth Special
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[00:02:08] Intro Theme (Music by Danya Vodovoz)
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[00:02:39] Welcome to Queue Points Podcast
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DJ Sir Daniel: Greetings and welcome back to a brand spanking new episode of Queue Points podcast. I am DJ Sir Daniel

Jay Ray: And my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my government as Johnny Ray Cornegay the third. What's happening folks.

DJ Sir Daniel: Queue Points podcast is the number one rated top podcast in the world dropping the needle on black music history. As Jay Ray said, we are here world. We're ready to talk. First. Let me just check in with you. Jay Ray. What's been going on? It's been a robust day. Kind of day.

Jay Ray: It has been a row bus day. Let me just tell y'all I have been going all day. It has been nonstop. Even when I thought I was going to have a break. Nah, bruh. No, you're not going to have no break. So that's been going on Facebook. Yo, shout out to folks who are joining us on Facebook, getting the show on Facebook tonight was like, it took forever.

So I'm good. We're here. Everything is live. Shout out to all the folks joining us. Check in. Let us know where you took you joining us from sir. Daniel. How are you? Yeah,

DJ Sir Daniel: had a robust day, felt like I was on the go. And you know, sometimes like you were saying, you're doing the absolute most and doing your best. And for some people, it's just not enough sometimes. And you know what? It'll probably never be enough for certain people. So what do we do?

We keep on trucking. And I, I was just happy because I knew that later on, I was going to be here with you, Jay Ray and all our viewers and listeners, um, recording this new episode of Queue Points Podcast, which is very near and dear to our heart because, um, we were all at one point children

Jay Ray: we

DJ Sir Daniel: and at one point, Um, have had to participate in those Easter Sunday programs and Christmas plays and got our, you know, that's where we got our first little taste of being, what being on the stage was like.

So we're going to talk about, there's some people who got that, but they took it to another level and we're going to talk a little bit more about. 

[00:04:56] Slow Jams Can Heal Us Campaign
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DJ Sir Daniel: Kid the kids music renaissance as it were but Jay Ray before we do any of that You know, there's a new slow drag coming up in like a week or so, right?

Jay Ray: We love slow drag.

DJ Sir Daniel: we love slow drag and we love slow jams.

We love it so much that it is become our warcry for The year 2024 and beyond. So tell the people a little bit more about slow jams can heal us.

Jay Ray: Absolutely. So for those of you that don't know, um, this year Queue Points launched our Slow Jams Can Heal Us campaign. Uh, we came out the box, uh, Valentine's Day with a conversation with Whitney Jones, uh, Of slow drag. So make sure if you are in and around the Atlanta area, be sure to be following slow drag.

co because Whitney is amazing. She has a lot of dope events that is centering intimacy, intimacy, slow jams, black folks, blue lights in the basement, all the things, right? So get into it. Um, but, uh, in addition to Uh, the show about Slow Jams, we have merch so you can shop our store and buy some Slow Jams Can Heal Us merch.

Check it. It's Pride Month! Queue Points got you. We even have pride versions of Slow James Can Heal Us available. We got one with the brothers. We got one with the sisters. Buy what you want. We got mugs. We got bags. We got t shirts. We got hoodies. We got you. Because you know what? Queue Points loves y'all. You know what I'm saying, Sir Daniel?

You know what I'm saying.

DJ Sir Daniel: Absolutely. Because we're not going to play in your face, like target and Walmart and those places, you know, we, we love y'all. We love us for real.

Jay Ray: We love us for real.

DJ Sir Daniel: so we got the genuine artifacts, the genuine, uh, Um, paraphernalia for pride and beyond. So please make sure you join, go to our shop and purchase and get you something that you know, is actually going to come back to the community when you purchase it.

So boom, there's that on that. Um, Um, so Jerry, as usual, per usual, the social media has been on fire with lots of different, um, um, comments, um, stuff has been going on everywhere, but I think one of the, the moments that have Has really captivated the hearts and minds of viewers and listeners. Shout out to Mark McPherson.

Just got back from Detroit. He's chilling at home in, um, in Columbus, Ohio. Thank you for always joining us. Mark is always there and we appreciate you and love you. Thank you so much. Be like Mark, be like Mark, be faithful to Queue Points cause we're faithful to you. 

[00:07:48] The Rise of 90s Kid Groups
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Jay Ray: Even in just getting ready for this show, it just brought up that question that I think we're all asking after watching the Nickelodeon thing of should kids even be allowed to be in this industry?

Because when you look back, even just thinking about that new edition documentary, it's like, Oh my God, these kids were being put in such adult situations.

DJ Sir Daniel: Precarious situations too, like drugs on the table. Um, they were getting robbed for their money, you know, not being paid, compensated fairly, uh, grown women coming on to them. You know, that's a lot and it makes you, you're absolutely right. If especially now in this climate, we're, we're hyper, hyper vigilant about, um, boundaries and, and vulnerable people being taken advantage of this topic of child stars really makes you think like you think about their parents. You know, uh, we're going to move on from new edition cause there were parents before them, but you're talking about five boys from the projects. And if you know about the projects in the eighties, it weren't nothing nice. You know, the eighties, we talking about Reaganomics, um, Families devastated after the Vietnam war, when all their fathers and uncles and everybody came back drug addicts and, you know, just really terrible economics, Reaganomics and people being put in jail for, for selling crack and being on crack.

And so if your child has a glimmer of a chance to get you out of that. You're going to take it. And so it's like, on one hand, you can understand them putting their children in those, in those situations. And on the second hand, it's like, Oh, Oh, could we have met, could they have made better decisions? And I'm sure quite, if was it worth, that's an even better question, was it worth it?

Jay Ray: Um, I think we, we need to unpack that a little bit as we go through this. And I want to add something because we don't have her on the list, but my frat brother Jason in the chat, when we get to our prototype, we must add Tracy Spencer because I have a lot to say. And I think Tracy Spencer gets to the thing that we're about to talk about.

In fact. Let's just launch into the prototypes because I think this is great. Thank you, Jason, for bringing up Tracy because I just saw something where she talked about this very thing. Um, but when we were thinking about this, Sir Daniel and I were talking like there, there's all, there's tons of prototypes for like the type of stardom that we're talking about.

And one of them that, that came to mind for the both of us, obviously Stevie Wonder is a legend. But we often forget that Stevie Wonder was a child star. He was little Stevie Wonder. And the clap your hands just a little bit louder and out there. Sing, listen with that harmonica and Stevie Wonder, uh, was on stage.

So he was what? 12, 13 out here singing to these adults in the sixties. And even him having to Transition from like child star to like adult star, there's some great, there's a great story about the where I'm coming from album because it's like 1970 Stevie's like 20 years old and he finally is like, I want to do my own thing and Motown is giving him a little bit of room to like do his own thing, but They're not sure what is going to happen.

And obviously that record begins Stevie Wonder's classic period where he just was like banger after banger. And he was fortunately able to transition from child star to adult star. And that in itself is rare. Not everybody gets the luxury

DJ Sir Daniel: Not everybody does it and I think you know what the When it comes to making that transition, Jay Ray, you know what the biggest challenge or the biggest enemy to a lot of these child stars is? Puberty.

Jay Ray: because they're

DJ Sir Daniel: those voices change, baby, you don't know what you're gonna get when that voice changes.

Like we, Michael Jackson, primings. Well, an example of his voice, his gift being able to transcend his age, right? Even though people made fun of his speaking voice and all that, that singing voice was still there, was still intact. Stevie Wonder got to keep his, but, um, I'm thinking, hmm, who's somebody notable whose voice changed?

Like Tevin Campbell.

Jay Ray: Absolutely.

DJ Sir Daniel: is, I think, is a great example. Tevin Campbell, you know, because he was so young, was able to get up in those registers and to, you know, do his good old, his good Whitney Houston, uh, runs and singing like that. But as he got older, you know, that changed a little bit. But I, not to the point where he didn't do well, because I still think, you know, in his I'm ready era, he sounded like super good voice changed and everything, but he sounded really nice.

But sometimes those are things that, um, I think record labels I'm sure back then took into consideration or didn't take into consideration, like, Oh, their voice is changing. And if I'm not mistaken, I believe Menudo, if once your voice changed, you were

Jay Ray: Oh, they swapped you. They swapped you out and put

DJ Sir Daniel: swapped you out.

Jay Ray: Absolutely. Um, yeah, the voice changing thing is such an interesting opportunity. I think that there's, we're not talking about this artist in here. Cause we've already done a whole show on her and she's kind of really in the upper ages. But Brandy's voice changing.

It's kind of marvelous. I love. 1994 14 Brandy and I love 2024 Brandy to that husky deep. I like all of that carrying on so give me both versions and I'm good. But to that point about 88 was an interesting year because 88 when we when we you and I were talking. 88 really did start kind of this new crop.

One, New Jack swing is everywhere. You went from like kids here and there to like two artists showing up on the scene that were really young. 

[00:14:48] The Boys and Tracie Spencer: 80s to 90s Transition
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Jay Ray: So on one side you had Tracy Spencer. Right. And on the other side, you had the boys, right? Both came out, debut albums, 88. Symptoms of true love, you know, Tracy on that side.

And then down my heart, the boys on the other side, you know what I mean? These kids making these bops. These kids was out here making bops in 88.

DJ Sir Daniel: know what? The boys bring brat, bring brat, bring back a specific memory for me. So remember, I told you all about a Keisha that I went to school with. Well, there's another

Jay Ray: have a couple of keys.

DJ Sir Daniel: Those are quite a few Keishas in my class at back at Hanson place. Um, Keisha Drake. When I tell you shout out to Keisha Drake, Keisha Drake was the biggest Hakeem Fan from the boys suck to the point that we both would buy, you know, take our allowances and buy word up magazine, all the kiddie magazines, right?

Word up, uh, right on black beat, all of that rap city, everything we purchased those, it was to the point where if I was looking through my magazine and I would let them go through my magazine, if there was a poster of the boys,

Jay Ray: She

DJ Sir Daniel: was, it was up, it was like, boom. So, all right. So what are we going to do here?

She and I would actually swap posters. Like if there was a, a poster of salt and pepper or sweet, see somebody else that I wanted, we would swap posters. But if there was a Hakeem poster or a boy's poster, what's up, run that poster. Come on. Let me, let me get that, you know, you know, what's up.

Jay Ray: It's like garbage pail kids when you was a kid, when you traded.

DJ Sir Daniel: Yes, indeed. It was a, it was a serious thing. And those boys, another memory unlocked, Jerry. The very first time that the boys performed on Showtime at the Apollo. Everybody knows the world famous Showtime at the Apollo. Everybody

Jay Ray: They turned it out.

DJ Sir Daniel: But everybody knows about Miss Eva, Miss Eva,

Jay Ray: there?

DJ Sir Daniel: who may not remember, was this grown woman?

We couldn't really tell how old Miss Eva was, but she was a, she was a grown woman and she was At each and every recording of Showtime at the Apollo in the front now, she is most known for showing her appreciation to the male performers By standing in front of them and gyrating And she has been also known to touch them, like reach out and touch.

She's gotten very close. She's very close to the danger zones, to that, that square area. You know, y'all know what I'm talking about? The crotch watch area where she was, she would put her hands dangerously close around there because this was in the, the body roll gyrating era. So everybody was gyrating in front of Ms.

Eva and she was out there to get her feet, her feels off on television. Jay Ray, I was so concerned at my early age, was so concerned that when the boys got on there, I was like, is Miss Eva gonna try and feel on the boys? Is she gonna try and touch on them? And I was sitting there like, with secondhand embarrassment like, oh, please no, she's not gonna do this.

And I'm only what, 12 and 13 years old, so I can only imagine what other people were thinking or feeling.

Jay Ray: Yo, Miss Eva was the truth and you know what, shout out, interesting, the boys tidbit, um, Kipper Jones, a friend of this show, singer songwriter. Our friend, um, Hakeem has a distinction because, uh, Hakeem was a very talented musician and producer. He actually went on to produce the boys like records after like that first album.

Like there was a lot of Hakeem stuff, but anyway, outside of that group, Hakeem's first album. first production was on Kipper's debut album, which was really, really dope. So, um, I think it was ordinary story. Part two, uh, cut me no slack. If you go check it out, you can stream it. You will hear Hakeem at the beginning of this song, talking on this track and he actually produced the song.

So that's like his first production, uh, which is

DJ Sir Daniel: out to Hakeem for sure. He did. I think he did like a Chinese, a couple of Chinese rap and remixes as well for the, um, the song from the, the meteor man for you, for you.

Jay Ray: I love that

DJ Sir Daniel: he did a remix on it. I have to look. I have the 12 inch around her somewhere, but I'm sure he did. But yeah, you're absolutely right about the boys and bringing up Tracy Spencer.

Also.

Jay Ray: Oh my God.

DJ Sir Daniel: Brought up another point we were talking about for young men, their voices changing, making can make or break their career, but for young women, for girls transitioning into women. Wow. A lot of factors come into play, weight gain, um, developing breasts and hips. And starting to, and now what do you do with all of this, this new found male attention?

Jay Ray: Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: do you, I'm sure labels are like, how do we work around this? What are we going to do? Do we taper down? Do we want to say there was a story of somebody being taped down, if I'm not

Jay Ray: That is like, that's so crazy, but it was the eighties and the nineties. So I'm not surprised. Well, I think, Oh, you might be talking about Judy Garland. There's a Judy Garland story. I think of when they did that with her.

DJ Sir Daniel: I'm thinking about, I'm probably thinking, no, I'm thinking about the facts of life. They did this with the

Jay Ray: They did they did what they did this with the actresses so I do think Kim Fields had this happen as well, you're right Um, Tracy Spencer is such an interesting case because She comes to us in 88 with her debut album. We get the, she's like 12. So she's like a kid kid, right? I like the boys, although the boys were interesting because they were like brothers, it was like the one real older brother, but then it was like kids.

Um, Tracy was 12 years old, just kind of out front. Um, she had done the SAR search circuit. She had been kind of around for a couple of years. She tells this interesting story because Tracy, those first two records, especially the second record, the make a difference record has tender kisses and love me like these, these R and B classics on that second album.

Then Tracy disappears for like, nine years, right? Until she shows back up and, um, does the record in like 99. It's, it's about you. It's all about you. Not about me was on that joint. She had the one hit and here's what she talked about. Going back to our initial part of the conversation, she talked about the fact that, well, by the time she.

did her third album. She's like mid to late twenties. Early on her dad and her brothers would be with her all the time. She was never alone because her dad and her brothers were with her so she could do radio, do tours, do stuff like that because she felt she had the protection of having her father or her brother.

She said, but the difficulty came in. I think she talked about this on Questlove Supreme. The difficulty came in by that third album. She was like, I don't know. I was grown. Her dad was sick. Her brothers had families. Now she's now having to do this by herself. And now people start to try and take advantage of her because she's out there as a young woman by herself.

in this industry. And it was too. And she said, she called her mom and her mom said, she's like, my mom always said, when it got to be too much, just stop and come home. And she's like, that's exactly what she did.

DJ Sir Daniel: Wow. Yeah. Shout out to Tracy Spencer, Shanice. think because I need to make a few years before her, um, wow. Yeah. When I think about, especially when we talked about new addition earlier, um, we think about, of course, Maurice star, who is responsible for, you know, producing that record and, you know, putting some, putting them together.

And Maurice star, of course, later on found, uh, new kids on the block.

Jay Ray: Another

DJ Sir Daniel: And so you.

Jay Ray: kid's group.

DJ Sir Daniel: Phenom, phenomenal kids group and shout out to, I think it was Donnie Walberg, shout out to him a few years ago saying, Hey, listen, there wouldn't be any new kids on the block without new addition. So he got, he got some cool points for me for that one, for saying, listen, there would be no us without them.

But, um, I think about Maurice star. I think about Michael Bivens. I think about, um, Jermaine Dupri, we got to talk about Chris Stokes at some point, but these,

Jay Ray: about Chris Stokes at some point.

DJ Sir Daniel: but these are procurers of kiddie fandom, right? They, they had the, the Midas touch when it came to putting these kid groups together and shout out to Michael Bivens coming from A kid group. And what does he do? One of his first discoveries. Wait, were they first?

Jay Ray: I think so.

[00:24:58] Another Bad Creation and the 90s Kid Group Explosion
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DJ Sir Daniel: I think, yeah, they were the first, one of the first discoveries from, I guess, the Biv 10 camp was another, another bad creation,

Jay Ray: Yeah,

DJ Sir Daniel: which is, which was a landmark group for Atlanta in and of itself.

And then on top of that, they were all elementary age kids. In this group singing about Aisha. Mm-Hmm.

Jay Ray: You know, there's a couple of things. So the 90s. So this another bad creation really did open the door because while Sir Daniel and I were really thinking about this, it was like, okay, well, in the 80s, it was kind of a here and there in the 90s. You could throw a rock and hit like a popular. Teen, kid or teen acts.

They were just everywhere. Um, another bad creation. I remember hearing one. I had never heard the name Aisha like on the radio and like, we'd never heard it in a song. It's just like I had a Aisha in my class. So Of course, we could sing Aish, it

DJ Sir Daniel: Aisha,

Jay Ray: you got to make, you know, I'm sure she got tired of little boys singing that song to her.

DJ Sir Daniel: poor Aisha is across the, the

Jay Ray: Poor Aisha's, um, but you have these little kids singing songs that would appeal to other little kids, you know, I didn't feel like Aisha was too grown. Um, even playground, then playground comes is like, I don't know which song came first, but, um,

DJ Sir Daniel: Aisha was first,

Jay Ray: was first and then playground. Um, so these. Right.

They were cool. That was the name of the album cooling at the playground, you know with these let's talk about the fashion these big clothes There's a big probably cross colors hats

DJ Sir Daniel: wearing their clothes inside out

Jay Ray: Theirs was inside out. So they weren't the

DJ Sir Daniel: they were being fashioned after Bell biv. Devoux,

Jay Ray: Yes

DJ Sir Daniel: so, because Michael was in charge of them and he was, you know, of course, from. The Biv and Belle Biv DeVoe. And so, so yes, they got all their fashion cues from Michael Bivins and B. B. D. And so that, uh, that appealed to, I think that was, I was what, maybe 14 going on 15.

So I'm getting in that, that area of Where other kids, like little kids, aren't going to appeal to me anymore because I'm getting up in, in age. But there was something I remember just remembering, like seeing them and what actually being bowled over by their dance moves, like how tight they were as a unit when it came to that dancing and shout out to, to, to, um, Michael Bivens and his producers, they always made sure those boys had, that their songs had a mean dance breakdown.

That they could show off.

Jay Ray: listen you we had to do it then ABC I Sadly, I don't remember the second record at all. They had a second record

DJ Sir Daniel: Again, the voice changes,

Jay Ray: changes and honestly by then Everything was moving so quickly hip hop was like swooping in and being in everything in a different way but They were, you know, they were just churned out.

There were just more kid groups that were being churned out over time. Because of course, from another bad creation, we get Subway. A lot of folks, we forget about them, but we get Subway. We get 702 that came out of that camp too. I

DJ Sir Daniel: who else we got out of that from um, another bad creations, the honey dips. They, they recorded the answer to They recorded the answer to Ayesha. One of them was named Ayesha.

Jay Ray: See, see the things that come out of this.

DJ Sir Daniel: The stuff that you forgot, Queue Points is going to remember for you.

Jay Ray: Absolutely. And so the, they really did open the floodgates in the 1990s. Cause that album hit early 91. 

[00:29:16] MPN Network Mid-Roll Ad
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[00:30:39] The Rise of Immature
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Jay Ray: one of the groups we mentioned, uh, in passing, Chris Stokes.

DJ Sir Daniel: Mm hmm.

Jay Ray: we're going to focus on

DJ Sir Daniel: Let's focus on the

Jay Ray: we're going to focus on the music.

Um, but immature, um, emerges and They in 92 are very reminiscent of another bad creation, except their thing was like this Bohemian, um, soul look thing. They kind of looked like little Lenny Kravitz's. Yes,

DJ Sir Daniel: way to describe them. Yes, you're absolutely right.

Jay Ray: they look like little Lenny Kravitz's except they were singing soul music. One of the things I figured out, Sir Daniel, because, uh, by the way, uh, let's talk about the original lineup. So the original lineup of M of Immature, later known as IMX, was of course Marcus Houston, Romeo, we all know Romeo. So Jerome Jones, uh, his name is Rome.

He went by Romeo. But the first, uh, member was, uh, Don Santos. He left the group in 93. Uh, his, he went by Half Pint. He was replaced by LDB, which most people know LDB because he's been in the group since. But, uh, One of the things I figured out, Sir Daniel, that was really interesting. So, I only remembered two early Immature songs.

I remembered the Munchies. I remembered that because that title was real fun. But two, their first single was Tear It Up. Tear It Up. Y'all go listen to this has the exact same song structure as Ain't Too Proud to Beg by TLC It's a very

DJ Sir Daniel: I'm gonna have to go back and

Jay Ray: go listen to that cuz I was like listening to tear it up.

I was like This is basically the same production, which of course came out that same year. So that's very interesting how that production, I was looking to see if there was any overlap in producers, but it doesn't look like there was, but, um, Immature, I remember my memory of them was seeing their music videos.

I remember it being attached to, um, Bebe's Kids, uh, shout out to that movie and Tear It Up was I think on the Bebe's Kids soundtrack and I remember the music video and they just said Seemed so tiny like because they were they were kids

DJ Sir Daniel: And then the oversized clothes

Jay Ray: and the oversized clothes did not help It made them look like miniature people.

But uh, I remember them showing up I wasn't like a huge fan because I I don't know what it was about immature I didn't have this feeling with another bad creation, but maybe it's because it was a year prior For me immature felt I felt like I was too I was getting too I was too old for that You know, I was,

DJ Sir Daniel: Absolutely. Yeah. That's all I

Jay Ray: I was, um, these, these, I was probably like 13, 14. I was too old for that and what they were doing.

DJ Sir Daniel: I know those kids, you know, I remember them sitting on the couch. Um, with Donnie Simpson on Video, soul and their legs, feet were just, they weren't even dangling. They were just sitting up straight on the sofa. That's how tiny they were. They were literally babies when they came into the industry. And so funny we talking now.

I brought a video soul, another memory unlocked. You remember Pretty and pink.

Jay Ray: I do.

DJ Sir Daniel: were teenagers, but. Yeah,

Jay Ray: Yeah. Was a Milan. Malini was in

DJ Sir Daniel: Khan's daughter. Yeah. Yeah.

Jay Ray: You you actually May they were they were they were definitely on video. So I remember the video video So listen bet played the heck out of some pretty in pink Because they were on the top 20 several times And they only had the one single that I think was a hit hit but they I thought they were I thought they could have gone further, but here's the interesting thing and I think this is a good You part, a good piece to talk about this.

I think there was something about the culture in the early 90s, so between like 90 and 95, that allowed for these kids to kind of have these big splashes, but they never, many of them just couldn't transition beyond it. Right. So there was an appetite for it, but it was like, as audiences, we kind of chewed them up and spit them out or the industry themselves.

Like the kids at that point just got chewed up and spit out. And so before we know, we knew it. They had a hit song and the album barely charted. And then we never heard from them again.

DJ Sir Daniel: That's a fact. It's, think, a child. What we saw a lot of was Kid X were attached to some type of gimmick. And once the gimmick ran out and was over with, then it was like, Oh, now you want to really be taken seriously as a musician. Okay, kid, get out of here. You know, yeah. And imagine, but imagine being in hip hop.

Being a rap group and coming out like gangbusters

Jay Ray: Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: gangbusters. And then right, right. As you're coming out, hip hop is, is maturing or growing up into it's like teenager phase and troubled teenager phase and, and leaning into the gangster rap era. 

[00:36:46] Kris Kross and the Evolution of Kid Rap Groups
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DJ Sir Daniel: And of course we're talking about, we can't not talk about crisscross.

Jay Ray: big they were huge.

DJ Sir Daniel: another. Groundbreaking at acts for the city of Atlanta, another bad creator. And what was so funny was another, I didn't even realize it. They were both from Atlanta and crisscross came out dissing another bad creation, I thought was hilarious. It's like, Oh, you little kids, what you going to do?

Those little boys, they're just kids.

Jay Ray: you know,

DJ Sir Daniel: is wiggity,

Jay Ray: to that point around the gimmick, although I do think of all these groups. I actually think crisscross could have gone further and and I did watch some of this and what we could talk about it, but They had the gimmick. They wore the clothes, so they wore the clothes backwards, right?

DJ Sir Daniel: wiggity whack. I mean,

Jay Ray: We didn't we just so you know

DJ Sir Daniel: right.

Jay Ray: So jump becomes this monster hit Their album, Sir Daniel, check it. Their album, Totally Crossed Out, uh, which came out in, uh, 92, Um, went four, four million copies. So four times platinum. This is huge. These are physical copies, people. These

DJ Sir Daniel: had to sell records, people. And you had to go out and buy them.

Jay Ray: Right. 4 million physical copies of a thing were sold. Um, and that is huge. And they were, uh, of course, um, a product that came from Jermaine Dupri's camp and, uh, we love a JD. Um, and by the time I enjoyed their second album, uh, which came out, which In my mind came out years later, but that record came out a year after their first album.

And if you look at them, if you look at them on the cover of the first album and on the cover of the second album, they cause they're like, we as kids, you grow

DJ Sir Daniel: up like two inches. Yes. Okay. Prime example. Remember Jerry, when we would watch our favorite TV shows that had took kids our age and then all of us different strokes, I'll never forget what growing up, watching different strokes and they would go on hiatus and they would come back. Ty Bridges came back a whole man.

He was like 16. Oh, with a mustache. His voice was in the basement that happened on television. This is a prime example of what happens in the music industry. You're right. Crisscross, they grew like two to three inches. They grew their hair and they were rocking the cornrows and braids because that was very reminiscent of Snoop and Naughty by Nature, who of course, by at this time, like really were hip hop Supreme beings at the time.

So, and. I think they did a good job of matriculating through their, their age and getting with the sound of hip hop, the way hip hop was part of that was, they had the brat writing for them, of course, and she was, a little bit older,

Jay Ray: Mm hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: but I think they did a good job. They made some very credible hip hop songs at that time.

Those two albums, you know, it was a far cry from them missing the bus and wearing their clothes backwards. Remember that appearance on a different world.

Jay Ray: Oh, that's right.

DJ Sir Daniel: is in the, um, in Dwayne's summer camp where he was teaching them in some class, but, um, yeah, I think they did a good job. Jermaine Dupree, and we're going to talk about Jermaine later on in another segment, but Jermaine Dupree did an awesome job of.

Working with youth culture. I think he really hit his stride when he worked with crisscross, because of course he has silk times leather, which got him his first record deal with Columbia, but then, you know, that sometimes let it do what they did, but they didn't really had have as much impact as when crisscross came along.

And then, you know, Jermaine also had. ties, of course, with TLC. He did some production with them. And so, and they were adults, but they look like kids cause everybody was short. And then they were wearing the baggy

Jay Ray: The baggy

DJ Sir Daniel: So they look like kids too.

Jay Ray: Yep.

DJ Sir Daniel: had, they capitalized on kid nature and kid and kid culture and whatnot.

So shout out to Jermaine and rest in peace to Chris.

Jay Ray: Chris. No, Chris. So it was Chris Smith who's alive and it's

DJ Sir Daniel: Uh huh. William Kelly, Chris Kelly that has, um, transitioned years ago and which is really sad. I really wish he could have been around to see what everybody's doing because I believe Chris, Chris is, he's, I think he's a model or a photographer or something like

Jay Ray: like an art, a whole artist, like a visual artist now and is really always honoring his friends.

DJ Sir Daniel: Mm hmm.

Jay Ray: he's always said Chris Kelly was my best friend, right? And what I love about, I actually think. I think Kris Kross could have gone further. I appreciate that they stopped when they did. And Jermaine, I think, talked about this a bit.

It was like hip hop just changed so much. Even though their third album went to number 15 on the pop charts, number two on the R& B charts, and went gold. which was their last album in 96. That is nothing to sneeze at.

DJ Sir Daniel: At all

Jay Ray: That's a hit record. So I feel like they could have kept going, but it was just like the time.

And we've talked about this, that 96, 97 era. We've talked about it time and time again, rappers and artists, R& B artists who came before that were like, what do we do now? Cause this is a totally different thing. And you either figure it out and most didn't. They just kind of bowed out.

DJ Sir Daniel: Yeah. And, you know, some people came along and went, you know, made their money, got their hits and dipped. Um, we had people,

Jay Ray: Yeah. Who else we got? Cause there was so many. We just have a, have a long list.

[00:43:36] The Struggles of Child Stars in the Music Industry
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DJ Sir Daniel: So remember the youngsters out of Philly

Jay Ray: I do remember the

DJ Sir Daniel: were pretty dope illegal also out of Philly, um, left. I found them, um, Chi Ali, Chi Ali

Jay Ray: A plus.

DJ Sir Daniel: A plus,

Jay Ray: Okay. Quinden, Chris Stokes again. Rest in peace to Quinden. Um, real quick. Shaheem. I went back y'all. And as I was getting ready for this, I played that first Shaheen record came out in 94. He was like 14. I still really like this album. It is a quintessential 1994 hip hop album out of New York.

It sounds like what hip hop sounded like in 1994.

DJ Sir Daniel: there was a keep it on the real song.

Jay Ray: I'm sure was there on the real song. Let me see. Is there a right? I'm sure I'm looking here or he at least said it right But on and on is still a joint. So y'all should go play on and on by Shaheen I thought Shaheen had it like I really did think he could have gone further But I will tell you was crazy about this record.

And if this was my child, I would say oh hell nah he was cussing like all over this album as like a 14 year old and And no, because I remember illegal was doing that too. I remember that being a selling point.

DJ Sir Daniel: Everybody was rough, rugged and raw back then. And wearing the laced up Timbs and beefing with each other. And um, but funny enough about the cursing, remember Shantae was 14. When that record came out and they had to bleep her a couple times, too. So that's always kind of been a thing in hip hop.

You know, we you kind of gave the kids some leeway with that. Can't forget Sammy. Sammy started out as a youngster. Lil Bow Wow is an anomaly

Jay Ray: Yep.

DJ Sir Daniel: We're talking about the 90s, but of course we can't not talk about child stars without talking about Bow Wow. For all intents and purposes, Bow Wow took what Jermaine was able to do with Chris Cross and Da Brat and like take it to another level.

Jay Ray: He did.

DJ Sir Daniel: He did that. He did that. We, you know, we make a lot of fun of with him. We have a lot of fun with him recent years because, you know, he's an adult trying to find his way in the world and he makes some corny choices from time to time, but there's nothing that could take away from Bow Wow's greatness during his reign in hip hop.

So shout out to Bow Wow. But I also want to, well, since we're in the still in the dog family, I want to give a shout out to the puppies. Hey little, why you dress so funky? La la la, it's so funky and wild too. Clearly, that's a regional

Jay Ray: Y2C!

DJ Sir Daniel: you from Florida, you know about the puppies.

Jay Ray: know the Funky Y2C up in the up north too. We heard the Funky Y2C.

DJ Sir Daniel: You know, and the seminal and very serious, your momma's on crack rock. Cannot forget that. But I want to shout out the puppies because they, you know, for all intents and purposes, they really hit a mark. Hit their, Hit their mark in the, um, the market at such a young age and being from Florida.

Cause nobody was really checking for Florida except for, uh, two live crew, which I want to say, rest in peace to brother Marquis who just passed away from two live crew is wow. Him and, um, and Tommy Wong there together again, you know, there's only Luke and mix master might left in from that crew, but, um, but yeah, so.

But the puppies, I had to shout out the puppies, the puppies did their thing. And it's a song that we remember fondly. And of course, let's give another shout out since Rico Wade just passed away. We got to give a shout out to Mr.

Jay Ray: Mr. Was I not told that story about the grandmom coming? Oh, I told it. No, I told it on our lives. So actually the people on Queue Points haven't heard that story. But, um, yeah, there was a woman who came into borders one day. I was working in the store and she was like, my, my grandson was in a group. And I want to order.

I want to see if I could get the album. And of course I have all the questions. I'm like, okay, well tell me a bit about the group, the cover. Do you know a song? I don't remember what triggered me. To. Start like singing Blackberry Molasses. I'm sure she said something But it was right and her one of her grandsons was in Mista and I was able to order I was like we don't have it in the store But I could special order them for you and I special ordered her like two three copies of Mista's debut album, Mista's only album, which is a classic.

If y'all, y'all have not heard that album, go listen to Mista's record. You can stream it, but, um, shout out to, uh, the Dungeon family, shout out to Organized Noise and rest in peace to Rico Wade. 

DJ Sir Daniel: Well, Jay 

[00:49:00] Wrapping Up and Final Thoughts
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DJ Sir Daniel: Ray, um, let's let the people know we we've held onto them long enough. We appreciate you all for checking us out. 

Jay Ray: Please stay connected to Queue Points. Thank you so much for tuning in and always supporting us. We really appreciate y'all. If you are hearing our voices, if you are seeing our faces, you are doing the most important thing that you can do, and that's listening and watching. Please subscribe wherever you are.

Just, you know, hit a little. Thing wherever you are and um share the show with your friends family colleagues if you love Queue Points chances Are they will love Queue Points too. That's the way it go Visit our website Queue Points. com. You could sign up for our newsletter. You can read Queue Points mag You can do all the things over there you can listen to all the show so you can search things see what you want to see and Last but not least as we talked about at the top of the show slow jams can heal us and other merches available in our store at store You DocuPoints.

com and we appreciate y'all

DJ Sir Daniel: We absolutely do. And what do I always say? Jay Ray in this life, you have a choice. You can either pick up the needle or you can let the record play. I am your candy boy, DJ Sir Daniel,

Jay Ray: and I'm Jay Ray y'all.

DJ Sir Daniel: and this is Queue Points podcast, dropping the needle on black music history. We'll see you on the next go round. Peace

Jay Ray: Peace. And for those of you that want to come on over, we're about to go on over on the IG and have a little bit of a key. Come and hang out. We ain't gonna be over there too long, but come and hang out over on the IG. We're gonna have a key. All right, y'all. Peace. 

[00:50:34] Closing Theme
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