Cool C, Big Lurch & Kidd Creole: Behind Bars

Before we get into today's episode, we want to

take a moment to acknowledge the weight of what we're discussing.

This episode of Queue Points explores real criminal cases involving artists from hip

hop history that include murder, violence, substance use, and crimes against a minor.

While our focus remains on the cultural and historical context

of these stories, the details are graphic and disturbing in places.

If topics are difficult for you, please take care of yourself first.

You can always come back to this show when you're ready or not at all.

We appreciate you listening, and we do not take these stories lightly.

Now let's get into it.

Greetings and welcome to another episode of Queue Points podcast.

I am DJ Sir Daniel.

And my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my government

as Johnnie Ray Kornegay III.

And, um, Sir Daniel, hip-hop talks a lot about law enforcement and how

it impacts people and communities, and we have a number of examples

of rappers who have ended up in prison for murder in that list.

Absolutely.

You know, the thing about rappers and some rap music, um, uh, aside from Chuck

D coining it as the, um, rap music as like the, the CNN, I'm not... That's not a

specific, a, a direct quote, but likening rap music to being the 24/7 news network

of the, of the, the community, right?

Like you always know about what's going on in the hood, and a lot of

rappers talk about, um, street justice and handling things on their own.

Some of it is fictitious, and some of them are really about that life.

And unfortunately, when the rhymes come to life Real life comes

into play and law enforcement is involved, and sometimes that can

parlay into real-life consequences.

And automatically, right off the bat, Jay Ray, the biggest example of that

that I thought of as we were getting ready for this episode was Snoop Dogg

early in his career, like when he, I mean, really taking off and about to

launch his, his solo album off of the success of being a part of The Chronic.

In 1993, Snoop Dogg was charged with murder along with his, um, bodyguard.

And, um, that trial, that case took about three years to, to reach a, a conclusion.

And in February 20th of 1996, Snoop Dogg and his bodyguard were acquitted

of murder charges, and the jury found, um, just ruled that it was self-defense.

But this was, uh, again, um, in regards to the 1993 shooting, uh,

shooting death of a Philip Woldemariam.

And I just, I will never forget the visuals.

Back then, kids, MTV, new breaking news, breaking news.

It was either John Norris or Kurt Loder that broke the news of, um, Snoop Dogg

being acquitted of these charges, and I'll never forget the footage of him in

court hearing the verdict and folding into his praying hands and his, um, his, uh,

legal team hugging him and surrounding him, and he's just clasping his hands in

prayer and just being really thankful that he did not, he was not a guilty charge.

Because if that had happened, Snoop Dogg, w- the Snoop Dogg that we

have today probably would not exist.

Oh, not probably, would definitely not have existed.

Uh, but Jay Ray, some, some of our hip-hop heroes did not fare as well as

a Snoop Dogg and did not have the type of legal representation that he had.

And so we're gonna talk about people that in fact have not fared so well.

Yeah.

Um, it's interesting that we, uh, started with that kind of overview of, of the

Snoop Dogg case because of course Snoop Dogg was famously signed to Death Row, and

currently, I think, owns Death Row at this point in time that we're recording this.

But it's gonna lead us into kind of the first conversation, and actually

in, uh, the, the list of, of, uh, artists that we're gonna talk about,

this is actually the oldest case.

It's 30 years old this year.

So to give a bit of background, um, about this particular case,

uh, this particular case happened in the Philadelphia Metro area, so

it's like outside of Philadelphia.

And on January 2nd of 1996, three folks attempted to rob

a PNC Bank in Feltonville was actually where this took place.

And an officer named Lauretha Vaird responded to the silent alarm that

the, uh, bank had, uh, had tripped and was subsequently shot and

was actually, and actually died.

So she was murdered in the course of responding to that alarm.

As it turns out, as the, uh, case unfolded, uh, there was, uh, three local

Philly folks who, uh, did that robbery.

So it was a, a gentleman by the name of Mark Canty and two names

that we know, and I'm gonna actually mention their rapper names.

One of the rapper names was Steady B, and the other rapper name was Cool

C. All three of those individuals were convicted of this murder.

And actually, Cool C is the only rapper to this day who is

currently on death row serving time.

And Steady B is in, uh, prison for, for, for life.

So he has a life sentence in prison for, in connection to

the, the death of Officer Vaird.

And I remember, Sir Daniel, at the time, I'm curious to know how this played in,

in Atlanta, but at the time here, this was a huge case because Cool C and Steady

B, uh, yeah, you know, uh, hometown dudes, part of the Hilltop Hustlers

crew, which included Three Times Dope.

In ni- between like '86 and '89, these brothers were like inescapable

in terms of musical output, like legitimate classics amongst all of them.

And this period of time was like, it represented how much

hip-hop had turned, right?

So by 1996, hip-hop was in an entirely different place.

So the kind of rapping that those brothers had been doing at the time

was way out of fashion by then, which of course impacted, uh, uh,

all of the things around their lives.

So the fact that their lives turned in this way was just kind of like jarring.

Um, but this whole situation ended up playing out kinda crazily in the,

the, the Philly area at the time.

But, um, definitely rest in peace to Officer Vaird.

And, but I'm curious, Sir Daniel, how did this play in the, in the Atlanta area?

Did y'all hear about this as it was going on?

So I, I can't really speak to the larger Atlanta area 'cause, you

know, in '96, that was right before the boom, you know, of after because

we were gonna have the Summer Olympics, and after that, that's when the influx

of people outside of this, and more people moving to the city happened.

So but I will, I will say as, as a hip hop head, as somebody, you know,

who grew up hearing those, you know, really revered and respected the

Philly scene, a lot of Philly rappers, was a, a fan of Cool C and Steady B.

So the news, uh, it was jarring to me.

It was, it was j- as you said, it was indicative of the fact that for people

from that era, the trying to continue making music or trying to continue living

a lifestyle that the music had at one time had afforded them, could not do

that anymore because that's something you definitely do out of, uh, desperation

to, to, to, to fund your life basically.

And, um, and this is not a judgment.

It is basically what people, um, commit these crimes do.

They sometimes they just commit them to live, continue to, to, to cr- create a

lifestyle, to have a roof over their head, to, uh, maybe even to fund more music.

'Cause, you know, at that time, if you don't have a major label, you gotta

come out of your own pocket to fund studio time and things like that.

So, um, I don't know if that has been explored as to have they been

given the opportunity to speak to why they committed the crime.

I, I can't really say, but I just know that it was very eye-opening.

It, it, it almost marked the end of an era for me, for someone who really enjoyed

that period, like you said, between '86 and '89, where it was really about fun,

and it just stripped away the g- the gloss and the, the charm and the happiness of...

You know, these are kids.

And I'm, I'm a kid and I'm thinking, "Oh These guys are,

are robbers and killers, wow.

And not knowing the history or the, the... Not even thinking about what it meant to

be a hilltop hustler, what it meant to really come from the streets, not knowing

any of that, it was very jarring and eye-opening, and kind of, it was one of

those moments where you are definitely, your childhood is kinda-- another piece

of your childhood is chipped away.

And y- and you're n- you never look at life ever the same again after that.

It's like, "Oh, this is real life. There are real-life consequences."

And then enter other... You know, at this point, we're heavy into, into

hustler music, and people openly talking about, um, hugging the block

and, you know, gunplay, gun talk.

All of these things are real things now.

So this really, like, mark, demark the, the end of an era.

You are no longer a child.

You are no-- This is no longer fun and games.

This is real life, and these are real-life consequences.

Absolutely, 100%.

Um, this, uh, particular case, uh, the next case that we're going to

talk about is incredibly gruesome.

Um, so I wanna preface before we get into this that this case is,

uh, particularly gruesome, and we talked about, uh, last Halloween

actually, we did a show on horrorcore.

Y'all should definitely go back and check out that show.

But, uh, hardcore, horrorcore, sometimes hard to say, is a subgenre

of hip-hop that is, that leans more to the horror element of storytelling.

So, um, think, uh, uh, the Geto Boys and what they were doing, um, Gravediggaz,

or, you know, artists like that.

But there's another artist that was in that mix who is currently

serving a life sentence.

So Big Lurch was part of a rap group called The Cosmic Slop Shop,

um, and they were, uh, LA-based.

Uh, but he is Texas-born, but, so as with a lot of people from the South, they

kinda make their way into other places.

Landed in LA.

And Cosmic Slop, Slop Shop at the time, so this is in the early 2000s, were kinda

making a bit of a name for themselves, um, as, uh, in part of this horrorcore moment

in time that was kind of emerging, right?

Um, one of the other things a- about Big Lurch is, um, he, he used substances,

and one of those substances was PCP.

And Sir Daniel, unfortunately under the influence of PCP, um, uh, Big Lurch

attached, attacked his roommate, uh, a woman by the name of Tynisha Ysais.

I hope I'm, I'm saying, uh, Ty- Tynisha's name correctly.

But, um, attacked her in their LA apartment, and through a

stabbing- Um, and so she died.

But w- what turned this case into something gruesome, um, even more

gruesome rather, is he had been discovered walking the streets kind of, uh, uh,

covered in blood and, um, they found that he had ingested pieces of her.

So very gruesome case, um, that, that took place.

He was found guilty of first-degree murder, torture, and aggravated mayhem.

And, um, and they only, the jury only spended about an hour

of deliberation on this one.

And so as a result, he was convicted of two life sentences

without the possibility of parole.

Um, so he's currently in prison to this day and will be there

for the rest of his life.

Um, but rest in peace to Tynisha Ysais.

Um, but that is the story of Big Lurch and why he is currently in prison.

I don't think people... Well, maybe the people don't

remember or not, not remember, but maybe there's an audience that

doesn't know what PCP is or was.

PCP is like, I guess the predecessor to, um... The only thing I can

compare it to was when bath salts.

PCP, PCP was a, a hallucinogen, and a lot of people that took it

would, um, experience all kinds of crazy hallucinations, and clearly

it drove people to, to do weird things, um, outlandish things,

and this is an extreme case.

Used to be called angel dust, black acid, alien sex, all kinds of things

that it was called back in the day.

And yeah, it really was one of those things that you don't wanna

be around somebody that's on it.

It's interesting that you talk about, um, angel dust because when I

reflect on growing up And, and my uncles were very worldly, and so they would

often talk about, uh, the different substances that existed, some that they

would experience and some they wouldn't.

Angel dust was one of the ones that they would be absolutely like, "Never, ever,

ever do this." Like, it was, like, called out as, like, "Now stay away from that

and 'cause you'll lose your mind." It was kind of like the, the, the idea of it.

But, um, I remember that being, uh, if there was a drug that you were gonna stay

away from in the '80s, that was one of the ones that I remember them talking about.

Because the, those gentlemen in that age group, they came

back from the, from Vietnam, right?

They came back from the war, and a lot of them were... used substances

to, to take their mind off the things that they saw over there.

And okay, so, so Gen Z-ers out there that might be watching this, you

probably have seen this was floating on Instagram, I do remember, and TikTok.

Somebody had taken a clip of one of those after-school specials that Helen Hu- I

believe it was Helen Hunt was starring as a, a, a high school student, and

she and her boyfriend, um, were in one of the classrooms, and he was, he was

trying to get her to try this angel dust.

And she tried it the one time she tried it, and it just made her go crazy,

and she jumped out of the window.

And, and land... She didn't even die when she jumped out of the window.

She was just so strung out that, uh, she had glass all over her.

Y'all have seen that clip floating around on, on the internet definitely for sure.

But that is an extreme, um, example of what PCP angel dust

did to people back then, for sure.

Um, the next case that we are going to talk about is

actually a more recent case, but it involves a legendary rapper that

was part of a legendary rap crew.

So Kidd Creole, that's K-I-D-D Creole, um, is one of the founding members of

Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five.

So, um, I... We don't need to explain how significant Grandmaster Flash

and the Furious Five, uh, was as a group, um, and how it changed hip-hop.

But we have to remember that rappers from particularly that part of the golden era,

many of them, the, the riches we kinda see rappers experience today, when we look

back on that era, that's just not true.

Uh, Black Thought has this famous line, um, "Kool Herc w- Never

received a royalty check, right?

So these, like, people who are foundational don't experience the

same riches as, like, what we would see, like a Jay-Z or a Nas, right?

Correct.

So, um, Kidd Creole, um, this happened in 2017.

Um, he was convicted of fatally stabbing, uh, a, a man experiencing

homelessness in New York.

He had been on his way to, uh, work.

um, at a copy shop.

He worked overnight.

And as the story unfolded, it kind of started as there was an argument.

Uh, the way it wa- the way I remember the story kind of unfolding is that there

was this argument, it was self-defense, stabbed the man, story ends, da, da, da.

But as the story kind of unfolded, um, one of the things that came up was this

may have been, like, a gay panic sort of situation where Kidd Creole felt like

this person had been coming onto him.

Neither here nor there.

At the end of the day, um, the jury convicted, uh, Kidd

Creole in 2022, so this is what?

Five years later, of first-degree manslaughter.

Uh, he is currently serving 16 years in prison.

Um, and, uh, yeah, another tragic story.

Um, but yeah, Kidd Creole is currently serving 16 years for first-degree

manslaughter for the fatal stabbing of a homeless gentleman in New York.

I find it interesting, uh, these stories, except for Snoop and the

final story that we're gonna speak of, there are these people in the middle that

because there was a, a lull or a lag in their careers, or the, the

career was just nonexistent, makes you wonder, like, what the fame, what

fleeting fame can do to a person.

And it, fleeting fame in, in its- in of itself is a drug, right?

And then when you get a taste of it, you want more.

And then if you can't live up to the s- being in the spotlight, which

includes having to portray a certain l- lifestyle, it kinda opens you

up to these s- these situations.

You know, this gentleman is having to work a nine-to-five, a overnight

job, and was placed in this, in this situation where he came across this

individual that he had the incident with.

Not saying that n- things like this can't happen to any of us, but I just find it

interesting that that is, is the kind of the unifying factor in, in these cases.

And, um, but like I said in the beginning, not for everybody.

There are some people who, who kinda have it good.

And well, let's take Snoop for instance.

Because of the fame, who knows the, the like, um, what, what did Big say?

The ch- the, the, uh, cheddar breed jealousy.

Mm-hmm.

It kinda brings different eyes on you and brings attention

to you that you didn't necessarily have to worry about before, and

now you have to protect yourself.

And sometimes, and in Snoop's case, that's what it led to.

Uh, and the jury found that to be the case, that it was self-defense.

So this thing f- called fame, guys and girls, it's, it's not, it's

not what it's cracked up to be.

And to-- And especially now in this attention currency world that we

live in, it can re- it can really lead people to do some diabolical and

almost demonic things, and that's what this next case is going to highlight.

yeah, so this is actually an ongoing case.

Um, you know, it's so, it, it's interesting as we jump into this,

we've talked about rappers up to this point, and, um, you know, with

these, with these newer artists, it's sometimes hard to categorize them.

Like, are you a rapper?

Are you a singer?

What are you doing?

But anyway, the, the, the s- the, the, the case that we are gonna talk about

that all of you have probably heard about by now, but if you have not, uh,

there is a singer, rapper, songwriter named D4vd who is currently in jail.

He is awaiting trial for the murder of a girl that he was alleged- so

allegedly murdered, but allegedly was also in a relationship with.

This- Story is disturbing.

All of these stories are disturbing in, in their own ways and, and this one

definitely checks that box, uh, as one of, uh, uh, a particularly disturbing case.

And this artist is newer and way younger than any of the folks

that we have talked about so far.

He's quite a young man.

And but yes, currently, um, uh, this is underway, so the,

the, in, in, in California.

Um, Sir Daniel, did you know anything about D4vd as an artist before

all of this stuff came to light?

Not at all.

As you said, the The uncategorized type of music that he was doing just wasn't

for me, so he never popped up on my radar.

You know, I'm way out of the demographic for a lot of these new artists and the

algorithms that they are a part of.

So I-- But unfortunately, because his life has taken this turn, now

all-- it has all of our attention.

And you know, now we're very... People are, are, are holding a

magnifying glass to anyone that is carrying on any kind of relationship.

Anyone that's an adult is having any kind of relationships with people that

are way outside of their age range.

You know, especially if you're an adult, an adult-adult, anybody that's

like significantly lower or has, if you, has the, the word teen in their

age, it brings up a lot of suspicion.

So, and you know, the way people are moving, y-you just really have to,

they really have to watch themselves.

And because everybody has a heightened sense of awareness of how celebrities

in particular seem to move in a different world where they feel

like the rules don't apply to them.

So I feel like now more than ever, the public and law enforcement is

scrutinizing every and anybody that considers themselves a celebrity,

and they really have to move with some serious caution these days.

Yeah.

A- and, and to underscore that a bit too, like, I think what's unique about

the, the other cases that we've talked about exist outside of the realm

of, like, social media in the most, in the, for the most part, right?

Whereas- This D4vd case is interesting because there is a, a lot of, there's

a huge digital footprint for the re- the, the alleged relationship.

I know we keep saying alleged, but right now we have to say

that because this brother has not been convicted of anything.

But there's a lot of, of, of footprint of that, the alleged relationship.

There was a lot of, um, interaction with, like, the Discord universe.

Apparently D4vd had this very active Discord server and would, would talk

to, uh, his folks there because he was also, uh, uh, the way he got started

was, like, game- doing gaming videos, but the way he started making music was

he would, like, make his own music to put in the gaming videos so he wouldn't

get flagged and stuff like that.

Saying all that to say is it's just, like, really interesting, um,

because there's this disconnect.

I consider it a disconnect that kinda comes with living life in, like, you know,

these boxes, these digital boxes, right?

You're not actually interacting with people.

So there's that disconnect, uh, that happens.

But then there's also this hyper sharing of everything that's kind

of happening in your life with these people that don't really exist to

you as, like, a physical presence.

It's all very interesting to me that we're kind of at that place right now,

where it's like, you know, are y'all real folks out there in the world?

Are you a bot?

Are you an AI bot?

But yeah, this, um, more to come on this, this D4vd case.

This is becoming such a tabloid.

TMZ is always on it with something as it relates to this.

And, um, more importantly, pray for the family.

This was a little girl.

Yeah.

little girl.

I don't even think she was 15.

I think she was 14.

I think she was 14.

I

a child.

Literally a child.

Which, hmm, which brings up ano- another conversation about, I think

with, um, the coming of the, the upcoming Usher and Chris Brown.

N- and they have nothing to do with this case at all, but they're having--

they have a joint tour that's coming up, and the question has come up, like,

with are you allowing your teens and tweens to go to this show by themselves?

No.

That's a conversation that's c- that is a conversation

that's coming up, like j- buy them the tickets and drop 'em off.

It's happening a lot more than we realize, than we realize.

But that's a whole 'nother conversation.

oh, that is so interesting.

I think we do have to jump into... So definitely, maybe that's a, a live.

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That's right.

It's like I always say, in this life you have a choice.

You can either pick up the needle or you can let the record play.

I am DJ Sir Daniel,

My name is Jay Ray, y'all.

and this is Queue Points podcast, dropping the

needle on Black music history.

We will see you on the next go round.

Peace

Peace, y'all.