Diana Ross, Gladys Knight, Patti LaBelle, and Remembering Angela Bofill: Divas of '83

Episode Transcript

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[00:00:00] How to Support Queue Points

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[00:00:50] Opening Theme (Music by Danya Vodovoz)

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[00:01:21] Welcome to Queue Points Podcast

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DJ Sir Daniel: Greetings and welcome to another episode of Queue Points podcast. I am DJ Sir Daniel

Jay Ray: And my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my governments as Johnnie Ray Kornegay III, what is happening folks?

DJ Sir Daniel: Queue Points podcast is dropping the needle on black music history. And this episode is no different. Jay Ray. What's going on with your brother? How are you feeling?

Jay Ray: Listen, I am feeling really good. I have been able to stay out of this heat. Amen.

And you know, and so I'm feeling, you see, I got my shoulders going.

[00:01:53] Diva Talk: Jackie Washington Day

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Jay Ray: We talking about the divas tonight

DJ Sir Daniel: Hey.

Hey,

Jay Ray: Hey, so I'm feeling really good. How about you, man?

DJ Sir Daniel: I am doing the same. Uh, as I told you before we came on the air, I had the most life changing nap. It was a post swim, post sauna, um, post meal nap. And it just, uh, I think I slipped into another world, but I came back in enough time to, to do this and join you for this episode of Queue Points. So I am feeling refreshed and ready to go,

but I want, but I quickly, I want to make sure that everybody, I hope you've done your laundry.

Please make sure you've done your laundry because we are on the precipice. Of Jackie Washington day,

Jay Ray: the grand

DJ Sir Daniel: we talking about divas and there's no the ultimate diva than Jackie Washington,

Jay Ray: Absolutely. Listen, July 15th. It's a Monday. Get yourself together. Do that laundry. Cause you know, people, Jackie Washington day, people just, you know, they just dropped in or Jackie Washington day. Shout out to Jennifer Lewis and the brilliance that is Jackie Washington. Mm

DJ Sir Daniel: um, Jennifer Lewis and, and, um, whoopie Goldberg who delivered that line about Jackie Washington day, really? Because I think, okay, fun fact, everything that whoopie Goldberg did in Jackie's back was improvised. Because she was on the set of Girl Interrupted, which is why she had on that

Jay Ray: nurses. Right.

DJ Sir Daniel: And so most of her lines were improvised, like, um, Robert, Robert, um, Townsend

fed her some like, um, some, some facts and some parameters of what they're talking about. And she ripped that, she ripped that whole thing, July 15th, people just, people doing a large ramp. Boom.

But Jerry, before we get into the divas of

[00:04:07] Listener Appreciation and Support

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DJ Sir Daniel: 83, you know, let's talk to our folks and thank them for joining us. And, but also welcome the new listeners and tell them what they need to do.

Jay Ray: Absolutely. Thank you all so much. As DJ Sir Daniel said, we are so grateful for y'all being here and joining us for this episode of Queue Points. So you are already. doing the most important thing that you can do. You are listening, you are watching, and that is absolutely important. And it don't cost you nothing.

You are right here. Just tuning in. Thank you so much for doing that. If you want to do us a solid share, Queue Points with your friends, family, colleagues, because if you love Queue Points, chances are they will love Queue Points too. If you want to go a step further, and we want you to go a step further, you should visit our website at Queue Points.

com. You could sign up for our newsletter. You can also read our blog, which is called Queue Points Magazine at magazine. Queue Points. com, also free. And if you want to keep the lights on over here at Queue Points, you see these glowing lights behind myself and DJ Sir Daniel. If you want to do that, you can shop our store at store.

Queue Points. com. And really quickly, we, Sir Daniel and I, we did a post about this. this. We thank y'all so much for supporting the QPoint store. We have been seeing sales regularly in the store. It really is helpful and helps us to be able to do the things that we do on this show every day. So just thank y'all.

Thank y'all. Thank y'all so much for supporting us.

DJ Sir Daniel: Absolutely. We appreciate you and continue. That's the most important part part. There's always somebody new that you can get some, um, Queue Points merge for in your life. But let's hit it. Let's get onto this. subject at hand.

[00:05:51] Celebrating the Divas of 1983

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DJ Sir Daniel: 1983 was a magical year for, um, a few ladies. These ladies were going to talk about in particular.

Um, but let's start at what prompted this conversation in March, which is the beginning, the beginning of airy season. Diana Ross kicked things off with her 80th birthday. Then shortly after that, uh, Gladys Knight turned 80. Patti LaBelle a couple days after Gladys turned 80. And it was a magical moment.

These women have really stood the test of time. They, they're pretty much, if you think about it, literally, they are the last ones standing. Like from their class, they Of performers,

quite a few of their peers have passed away, even, you know, even the ones that they say that people thought were better than them, or you know, was the true divas, they've all passed away but they're still here,

and they're still Functioning lovely, looking good, sounding good, performing regularly.

So, um, before we do anything more, I think we need to give it up to them for, like, surviving all that they have, reaching the age of 80, they came through Jim Crow, segregation, after segregation, all of, you know, all of that in the pursuit of, you know, Providing music to several generations.

Jay Ray: Um, these women in particular, sir, Daniel, when we think about our lives, there is never been a point where the voices of these women have not been part of the, our life experience

on the soundtrack. There is the music of each and every one of these women, and you are absolutely correct. We cannot say how important these women are enough.

And the women were, of course, talking about, you know, Diana, Gladys and Patty. There are, of course, there are many more, but we called these women out in particular to your point, right? They all turned 80. They're still doing it. They are still doing it. There are folks 20 years, their junior retiring. And these women are like, I can still get on stage.

I can still do my thing and still turn out a crowd. I know folks that have seen each and every one of these ladies over the last five years. And they're like, Oh, that show, that show went off like great show.

DJ Sir Daniel: Still, still giving it to you like the rent is due and the eviction notice is on the door and their clothes have been put out on the street. That's how, that's how hard these women still give it to you. And, And the appeal is still there. Like not only can they perform, but audiences still love them.

People are, they've over the, this over the decades have been able to accumulate fans that Just the art fairweather, they've accumulated fans that continue to support them throughout the years, despite what technology has changed, um, styles of music, who, you know, who cares that hip hop is the culture, you know, There are people that still could go out of their way to go out and support these women.

And I think that speaks even louder volumes than, than anything else. The fact that they've been able to hold onto their fan bases. And I'm just wondering, I don't know, is it just the fact that they've, they put in all that work all of those years or do they have a special sauce? I mean, of course they have a special sauce.

Each one of them are stars, but I don't know. What can we attribute? That hold that they have on their fan bases, too.

Jay Ray: that is a great question. And Sir Daniel, I really truly believe that it is the songs. Ultimately.

Um, I think ultimately it is the fact that these women have, um, sang songs that have been part of so many important moments in folks lives. And. To that earlier point that you made, it's cross generational, Right.

There are folks younger than you and I who can sing baby love.

It's just in their DNA. There are young people in their teens. We see it all the time on TikTok that's singing Love Needed One. You know what I mean?

So, uh, they're these women. The reason why they have such a chokehold is they were gifted with these amazing songs from these amazing songwriters worked with amazing producers to bring these songs to life and Talent brought those songs to life.

I think you just can't, you can't, um, uh, you just can't get lost. You get lost in all of it.

DJ Sir Daniel: Yeah. And you know, since we're speaking of songs, let's get to it. There's a reason why, um, we call this, we call on this episode Divas 83 or Divas in 83. Um, 1983 was a special year for them.

All three of these women dropped projects that Okay, I'm somewhere more impactful than others,

and we, and we're going to discuss that we'll talk about that Jerry and I are probably going to rank these albums from our favorite to least favorite.

[00:11:57] Diana Ross: The Album 'Ross'

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DJ Sir Daniel: And, um, so let's start it off the first one that on the top of the list is simply called Ross.

Jay Ray: So, you know, what's so interesting about this record. So Diana Ross is Ross. I actually

have, I actually have a copy of that. This

cover. So there are several personal story. Um, Diana Ross album covers often have inspired me as a photographer. So

I've baby Diana was going to give you a cover. Do you see this?

DJ Sir Daniel: Now, let me ask you this real quick. Does it fold out?

Jay Ray: It doesn't fold. Not this one. This one

doesn't fold out. Well, there's a reason though, and

I think I know the reason. But, um, we'll talk about that in a second. But, Ross came out in 1983. Diana Ross also has the interesting distinction of having many albums named after her first name, Diana, or her last name, Ross.

I think this is probably like the second Ross album. Um, And I think part of the reason for that is, um, Diana came from the school of, there was a lot of songs and a lot of recording and she was always releasing something. Right. So I'm sure some of it was just like, we're just calling this Diana. It's fine.

It's okay. So it's cool. It's Diana. It's Diana

73. Um,

whatever. Right. But, um, this album, Interestingly enough is, um, Ray Parker Jr. produced part of this record, uh, a few songs on this record. Um, you have, um, Gary Katz who produced the bulk of it. Um, Diana Ross, uh, so during Diana Ross's RCA years, so this is her third RCA album. Diana Ross was releasing one album a year. During her RCA contract. This is her third release. Okay,

so

DJ Sir Daniel: Wow.

Jay Ray: One release a year. So, um, so the first release she produced completely The second release included Muscles with Michael Jackson on RCA. This is the third release. The lead single was Pieces of Ice From this record produced by Gary Katz. Um What's interesting about this record? I'm curious to get your thoughts sir, Daniel. I will share that You So Diana in 83 had ascended to, she was a superstar.

This is the album that directly preceded the Central Park concert.

So this is the album that was out, that came out like right before that concert. Um, she was a megastar and she was an international star. And these songs are just pop songs. Here's the thing. They're fine. That's the problem. The songs are

just fine.

DJ Sir Daniel: Yeah.

Jay Ray: They don't stand out. They're just pop songs with Diana Ross on vocals, but it's not distinct enough to make it like a thing. Whereas like I'm coming out and all of that stuff was like, no, these are like definitive. These songs are fine. Pop songs.

But that's it. Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: So, and to put it in, in the terms of the young people today, this, this album was a flop. They, they would, I think the young people would call this album a flop

considering the run that Diana Ross had had, like, to your point. Um, Who that I'm coming out all of that stuff to come before this, the, um, the performance at Central Park, like you said, they would have considered this a flop.

They would consider her, and we're going to talk about this later on in the show. All of the things, the accolades that you gave her international star movie star, um, She's a household name and they would consider her a flop because of this album. Now like you, um, I listened to this album and there wasn't anything on here that made me, that put, you know, gave me a tingle anywhere in my body.

There was just not, it was very, it was very much easy, easy listening. Um, this is like stuff that you would hear in the elevator.

Um, it's, Yeah, it's just non it's very safe. It's very tame. She was in her. I'm a pop. star crossover, um, adult contemporary artists here. You know, there's nothing that you can, you can play this for your grand, great grandmother

and, you know, not have to worry about them hearing anything, you know, trite.

So yeah, it really, this was not, This album didn't do anything for me. As a matter of fact, it's one of the few Diana Ross albums that I don't have.

Like, I don't have that every time. And I see it, I see it all the time. And I just be like, Oh yeah, there's that album and just pass by it. Cause it just doesn't do anything for me.

And what now did Richard Perry produce anything on there?

Jay Ray: No, so yeah, no, it was just Gary. Ray Parker jr. And and Diana herself.

Um

DJ Sir Daniel: cast, the funny thing about Gary is he produced, um, uh, uh, Steely Dan's the hit, um,

Jay Ray: hmm. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Um, there are several of them Um, but which one are you thinking of?

Cuz there's

DJ Sir Daniel: Michael McDonald is singing lead on. The one that

Jay Ray: Oh, oh black black cow. No a black cow

I think he did

DJ Sir Daniel: with the woman's name.

Jay Ray: Oh. Kipper is in

the chat. Kipper can, Kipper can, it'll come to us. But you're, to that point, right,

to this, uh, this point. So, Donald Fagan actually makes an appearance.

Uh, he wrote, uh, Love Will Make It Right. Um, and I think he's on backgrounds on that. song as well. Um, Donald Fagan, of course, half of, um, uh, Steely Dan. Uh, Gary

Katz was a producer for Steely Dan. So to certain, I know you're gonna find the song, Sir Daniel, but I one note I also want to make about Diana. at this time. Um, Kipper Aya, or was it Peg? Uh, Oh,

Kipper, Peg.

DJ Sir Daniel: Peg. Peg.

Jay Ray: Mark. Got it.

That was Mark McPherson. Thanks, Mark.

Um, real quick about Diana in this moment. Um, and I feel like this is an interesting time to be putting her alongside Patty and Gladys

because Diana is actually, this is kind of the beginning of her downswing. So. What's interesting is Diana in the very next year is about to have two huge hits. So, uh, she's about to have missing you, which was written by Lionel Richie. Um, and swept away, which was co produced by Daryl Hall. These two songs went off and that was from her album. Released in 84 called swept away. And so Diana Ross hit the charts again in 84 with these two tracks. But the interesting thing is that is the end of Diana's like chart reign in the United States. So 84. Four is kind of the last time that

Diana is a force on the charts. Obviously she's still a huge international star. She is today, but from a recording artist perspective, this album kind of marked the downturn and by the, by the time, um, eaten alive comes out in 85, it's like her, her chart reign is done.

And so that was kind of the, the downswing. So this started the downswing for Diana Rowe.

DJ Sir Daniel: For Diana Ross. So that's, that's Ross.

[00:20:03] Gladys Knight and the Pips: The Album 'Visions'

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DJ Sir Daniel: Um, right next to Ross, Gladys Knight and the Pips. Put down some, when I tell you

this album, Visions, Visions stands flat footed in the foundation of Funkin B and soul and deliverable. First of all, it's produced by Curtis Mayfield, correct?

Jay Ray: Oh, you know what? Who produced Visions? Let me

see. I let me see. Oh, producers. Here we go. This, uh, Visions. So we got Edmund Silvers on, um, production. Joey Gallo, Ricky Smith, um, Gladys and Bubba, um, Sam Dees. Oh, Richard Rudolph is on a track.

There's several producers. None

of them are

DJ Sir Daniel: several produce. No, I don't know where that came from. So nevermind that, but the, the product itself, uh, amazing. We have, of course, um, save the overtime for me, which is a mega hit to this day,

to this day and right before. So this album, it comes out a year, a year or two before Gladys Knight becomes her own television star.

Jay Ray: Exactly. So this is a very interesting time. Sir. Daniel, you took the words right out of my mouth. Visions. Is. Holds up. You can put on this album right now. It stands in the tradition of R& B. It is not trying to be, it is a modern R& B. What modern R& B sounded like in 83. This album sounds like it is a solid, yes.

Leon Silver's Kipper is like Leon Silver's influence was all up in it. Absolutely. Um, this record is. Kind of the thing that reminded you what was going to happen in Gladys Knight's career because to your point, Sir Daniel Gladys is about to go on the upswing after like visions we get all of the she's you know With the pips we get a love overboard after this we get all of these bops after this

DJ Sir Daniel: All the body roll music.

Jay Ray: All the body roll music comes after this, but this album really kicks it off superbly with Here's how you do a solid R& B record from a group that had been in the business for 20 years at this point, okay?

And they, baby, they were singing when they were kids.

DJ Sir Daniel: She was a child

right here in Georgia.

Jay Ray: Yup. And I can't say enough about this record, but I am going to tell y'all heaven scent is one of the best slow jams. There are so many like slow jams on this album that y'all can put in rotation. Um, but ain't no greater love. Love that save the overtime for me.

Love that when you're far away, I have so many songs on this record that I just absolutely adore. And, um, yeah, this is one of those ones that can stay in rotation. Can I say, Sir Daniel, what is interesting? I had never heard the Gladys Knight version because I never got, I remember the record from when I was a kid, but I never listened to this whole album straight through. I didn't know that she did a Wind Beneath My Wings either. So

DJ Sir Daniel: I think I heard, I had heard rumors about it. I know that she typically, what happens is you have somebody like a Gladys night, um, to do. A song like Wind Beneath My Wings, and then they'll give it, and they do well, but then they'll give it to, to a, a white, um, performer who gets all the accolades and everything.

We saw this happen. This happened to Gladys, and it happened to Patti with If You Ask Me To.

Jay Ray: yes, yes, yes,

yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: Cause, Patty did that first and then Celine kind of, you know, did her thing with it. Blew it out of the water. She, she did her thing,

but it's a pattern. We see that kind of pattern all the time when it comes to black performers.

Jay Ray: yeah. So, interestingly enough about, uh, when Beneath my wing, when beneath my wings on this album, it's credited as hero. That's another interesting thing about this song. It's sometimes credited as when beneath my wings, it's sometimes credited as hero. But check this out, sir Daniel. 'cause I did not know this.

I had to look it up in preparation for the show when Beneath my Wings, amen was appeared on. Colleen Hewlett Hewitt's album in 82, A Lou Rawls album in 83, Gladys Knight and the Pips album in 83 and a Gary Morrison 83. That don't even count the fact that like five, six years later, Bette Midler would do it and it would become this massive hit. So this song within like a year was shopped to so many artists and so many artists recorded it. And the one we kind of know. Really did

come out like seven years later.

DJ Sir Daniel: seven years, who and who wrote it?

Jay Ray: it was written by Jeff Silbar and Larry Henley.

DJ Sir Daniel: Wow.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: No, I know those publishing checks crazy. Caught crazy.

but so shout out to Gladys Knight and the pip pips for a, uh, a wonderful RB standard album. And then we're gonna, uh, and we saved, I think we saved the best for last. know you have some feelings

Jay Ray: have feelings.

[00:25:49] Patti LaBelle: The Album 'I'm in Love Again'

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DJ Sir Daniel: but I'm in Love again by Patti LaBelle might be.

I think if we're going to talk about cultural impact,

Jay Ray: Absolutely.

DJ Sir Daniel: that, this album contains two, two

Jay Ray: Two.

DJ Sir Daniel: Records that by the way, continue to be sampled,

continue to be turned into tick tock. So that's why what we were talking about earlier about generational impact, cross generational impact, this album and those two songs.

Of course, we're talking about Patti LaBelle, I'm in love again,

and, um, before you go, I just want to say when you listen to the album, first of all, there's all this, you can tell this is a lush orchestration, like Patti standing in one of those in the studios, like you see Aretha and all of them standing in the middle with the

Jay Ray: with the orchestra

DJ Sir Daniel: the strings and the wind and the wind section.

You can tell, That that's happening one, but Patti LaBelle for who we know her of

as the force on stage, Patti Patti,

she is exercising so much

Jay Ray: restraint

DJ Sir Daniel: in the beginning of this album. I mean, we get some disco cuts towards the end.

But she is practicing such restraint. The orchestration is beautiful.

Gamble and Huff, of course. You know, she's got the whole Philly sound. So Gamble and Huff have done their thing. But yeah, I don't know. This might be it for me. My number one.

Jay Ray: So, okay. We'll talk about that in a second. Um, I, I, I did not realize that both of those songs were from the same album. I would have bet money that one of these songs was on the spirit, the spirits in it when we were doing the research. Cause I remember when we had the meeting and we're like, Oh, we're going to do this divas in 83.

They all had a record. And I remember we were both like, Wait love need and want you and if only you knew is on the same album.

DJ Sir Daniel: The same album.

Jay Ray: Oh, I don't even know That's brilliant. So to your point, I think the first thing cuz I did not remember I remember the album cover for this record, but I did not remember the record I absolutely Absolutely agree.

So the first half of this album Um, it's squarely, well, one, it's a very jazz influence. So that's part of it too, where

you get to hear Patty and kind of like a jazz bag, which is really interesting to me. Cause I don't, I didn't remember a time where I heard her like that and restraint, the word that you use is the perfect word because I was like, Ooh, that tone, baby.

You're leaning into the singing part of this whole thing. And so the first half of that record is very organic. Um, you could tell that they're live instrumentation in the studio and for first half and then second half. Here's where my feelings come in. Second half is very squarely, 1983, synthesized R& B, but not in the Gladys Knight soulful way, and

DJ Sir Daniel: It's still disco y.

Jay Ray: it's still disco y, and it, in my opinion, doesn't really work. Um, So there's a,

there's a

DJ Sir Daniel: is that the stuff that Dexter Wonsell was working on? The up tempo records?

Jay Ray: well, okay. No, well, we have a Kenny Gamble is on one Leon Huff produced one. So no, uh, Cecil Womack. So Womack and Womack did a song

Love Bankrupt on this. Um, and then Joseph Jefferson did, uh, the, the final song. So no, the. The first half does have, the reason why that orchestration is happening though, there's a lot of Bunny Sigler in there.

And when Bunny Sigler is part of something, you're going to get a lot of instrumentation and orchestras and strings. I would be surprised if, um, I wonder if, I wonder who did the string arrangements on this. I'm actually going to look, uh, in a minute, but, cause I'm wondering if Richie Rome did string arrangements on this album.

Shout out to, uh, Richie Rome, rest in peace. But, um, What I will say is there's a keyboard, Kipper is still in the chat, I think, uh, and I could hear it as soon as body language started. So, Sir Daniel, it was the Yamaha DX7, I think is the keyboard, and that keyboard in particular has a piano sound that for whatever reason in the 80s, so many people used.

And I heard, as soon as I heard it, I'm like, oh, here comes. Here come the DX7, uh, uh, piano. Um, so anyway, I loved, loved the first half of this album.

I liked less the second half of this

DJ Sir Daniel: You, you wish you could like it

Jay Ray: I wish I could like the second half more.

DJ Sir Daniel: I want to love it more. Okay. So let's just rank them. I mean, for me, um, coming in last is definitely is Ross,

Jay Ray: We

DJ Sir Daniel: Diana Ross's album. Um, Hmm. Now that I'm thinking about it, I don't know. I'm only, I'm going to, I'm going to rank the way we said visions. This is number two and. I'm in love again, number one, only because like I mentioned of the, the cultural impact that those two songs, um, have today

and keep Patti LaBelle laced in shoes that she can kick off during her performances to this day.

So that's the only reason I'm, but that visions, I don't know. I mean, flat footed and singing, that's the empress of R& B. People need to give it up for, um, for

Jay Ray: for Gladys Knight

with

her family singing back there. Baby, there's bop dop a doo wop in on the thing. So, Dross is definitely number three for me. Um, I'm in Love Again is number two. Visions is number one. You know, I like the collection of songs on Visions. I like Visions as a whole better. I can play that joint through and be satisfied. And you know what? Visions is also a record for me that if people are like, I want to understand Gladys Knight. And I would be, I

would put this record in the list. I would be like, play this album.

DJ Sir Daniel: Okay.

Jay Ray: you'll,

you'll

DJ Sir Daniel: can see that.

Jay Ray: it. And I would put imagination in there. And I would be like, play this too. And you'll understand Gladys Knight. Gladys Knight. Um, shout out to, to miss Gladys Knight. But, um, I'm happy we did this because it was nice to go back and revisit these records. And I will say something about Ross really quick. The songs were fine. Like it was like, it wasn't like I wasn't annoyed by the listen. I just did. I just didn't care that much. So

it's fine. I just wanted to

say that like, it's fine.

DJ Sir Daniel: it's fine. I wish I loved it

Jay Ray: I wish I loved it more and these songs were just not going to be it. And John is in the chat. I know about this record because I remember when Pieces of Ice came out. I was Diana Ross stan. My obviously gay trait was that I was a huge fan of Diana Ross as a kid, y'all.

It was my OGT. Right.

DJ Sir Daniel: so young.

Jay Ray: and my dad brought me the album. got me. So.

Pieces of Ice was my joint. So, yeah. So it was fun.

[00:33:50] MPN Network Mid-Roll Ad

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[00:35:13] Iconic Diva Performances

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DJ Sir Daniel: Another reason why we wanted to do this episode and highlight these three women was because they are forever entangled.

Their lives are forever tied. I mean, forever entangled and for great reason, you know, every time they would be on stage, there was never a moment that they never had some type of interaction with each other.

One had something to do with the other.

What we're looking at now, this is playing, right?

Jay Ray: Mm hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: What we're looking at now is the Motown returns to the Apollo performance in 1985. And there you see her now, this is 85 to Jay Ray's point in the beginning, she was not, She didn't, she wasn't having anything on the charts at that point.

Matter of fact, she says in the beginning of this is that she came from a very long way, but she wanted to be here. So I, you know, I had to get here and I hope you enjoy it and blah, blah, blah. You know, in a very breathy voice and she starts off and as you all will see momentarily, they're singing totals.

I want to know what love is correct.

And you see, there are. Oodles and oodles of stars on that stage right now. You see, the only white person on there is George

Jay Ray: Michael, Only

DJ Sir Daniel: George Michael was a megastar at that point. But George Michael stayed true to his R& B roots and was upping the Apollo with all these black people.

Jay Ray: Yes. And also George Michael was like, I'm going to get in when I can fit in,

but I'm going to let these, I'm going to let them do what they doing.

DJ Sir Daniel: Because what, 'cause what Diane is doing right now for, for the listeners, what Diane is doing is she's singing the first verse, but she's warming up to what we call in the black community a mic toss. Uh, or in, in, or what people in the hip hop community will call a posse or a cipher.

They're about to pass the mic.

They're about to, people are going to get, you know, get a piece of the mic and sing their hearts out. Sing a verse. Uh, mostly it's when they get to the chorus, that's when everybody. Um, starts to get a piece, but sooner or later, wait, fun fact, Jesse Jackson is, is, um, holding Emmanuel Lewis

Jay Ray: It is, I, it is

so weird.

DJ Sir Daniel: is 15 at this point.

Jay Ray: I didn't, it's so funny that you mentioned that. I don't understand why people kept picking a manual Lewis up and like walking him around because Michael Jackson did

DJ Sir Daniel: Did it?

Jay Ray: And, and so now all of the people are what's another note I will make about this performance. And I kind of look,

okay, this is happening.

So.

DJ Sir Daniel: She's coming. She's

Jay Ray: Tell

him what's happened.

DJ Sir Daniel: All right. So Diana Ross famously sings Can somebody help me? And Patti LaBelle is standing in the wings saying, say less. And she, she does the ultimate sin and she had, well, the ultimate sin and hands over the mic to Patti LaBelle, who in two breaths has the, has the audience on their feet.

She is squalling the house down. Um, Diana Ross has his, like, she's just relegated herself to just singing along within the chorus in the background with everybody, because. True to the, to the, to the title of Diva, Al Jabbar just getting a piece, true to the title of Diva, Patti LaBelle took a moment.

Jay Ray: Mm

DJ Sir Daniel: I think Patti and people, people like to talk about Patti and she's how she does too much.

If you think about it, Patti LaBelle has been screwed. Scrapping

Jay Ray: hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: for her whole career, this woman, Diana Ross, allegedly took her, took her home girl out of the group, the blue bells and made her a supreme. So there's already already beef, you know, quite kind of, sort of, there's already a little, um, beef between them, but here they are standing on stage and Diana Ross to our point is a mega star.

Patti LaBelle is still scrapping and still trying to make things happen for herself. So this is a moment. I think Patti LaBelle is just a true performer and it's like, anytime I have the opportunity to sing, to open my mouth and to be, and to stand on stage, I'm going to make sure that you do not forget me.

Jay Ray: You know, I absolutely agree with that. I do think what's

Okay,

DJ Sir Daniel: them holding up Emmanuel

Jay Ray: just holding up. It's, it's so it's so weird. Um, uh, one of the things I think, I'm sure someone has done a study about this. We love people when they be carrying on black folks,

DJ Sir Daniel: Love it.

Jay Ray: where people carry. We are

going to support Patty LaBelle is cradling Emmanuel Lewis.

Y'all

I don't know.

DJ Sir Daniel: it's so cringe. It's so cringe, y'all.

Jay Ray: is, it is, it is, but that moment was a special moment. I think in time to just. See these women, and what's interesting about this, and we're about to have another moment because this is now 87. And once again, Diana Ross at the center, right? She's, she's

always, she is miss Ross, right?

So even

when she has it, baby, listen, even when Bill Cosby, Bill Cosby, who was at the height of his superpowers at that time,

he even says, miss Diana Ross. Yes, the

crowd goes crazy. So then we go to 87. Diana is, has her big hair. Diana has, she's always got her big hair as she is, I guess, hosting the American Music Awards

DJ Sir Daniel: Mm

Jay Ray: and is going to welcome to the stage. Dionne Warwick, because that's what Friends Are 4 has now, the year prior, is the biggest song. Now, Dionne has got her curly wig. This is the wig that Whitney was wearing,

like, years later. Mm hmm. It's the curly wig. Look at Dionne. Look at Dionne. Dionne got her curly wig on. She gonna fluff this hair a little bit, and she's gonna give you a And, uh You know what I'm saying?

DJ Sir Daniel: Please talk about the, the, the, the diva embrace that they all do,

the side hug into a cheek kiss. It's, it's, it's standard for the course. All of them do it mostly because I figured out mostly when you've gotten your hair done and you've gotten your makeup done. You don't want to do anything to smudge makeup or get anything out of place.

So I think that's part of the reason why you see most of these women do a side hug and a cheek kiss, meaning that they let their cheeks kiss each other. They don't actually use their lips because, you know, you can't smudge your makeup. All right. I think what the best part that's

Jay Ray: It's coming.

[00:42:20] Diana Ross and Gladys Knight's Tense Reunion

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Jay Ray: It's coming right now. Hear it.

DJ Sir Daniel: is that Diana Ross has called Gladys Knight to the stage, who, of course, is an original member on this, this particular song.

That's what friends are for. And she goes in for the side hug and the cheek kiss. And I could just, but she doesn't hold on

Jay Ray: She does it like that. Dion you see how Dion is still holding on Diana?

Gladys is not.

DJ Sir Daniel: I ain't with the fakeness. I ain't with that fake ish. You know what you did, girl. You know what you've done over the years.

Jay Ray: Oh, this

is such a moment.

DJ Sir Daniel: tell them, what, what lies beneath between Gladys Knight and Diana

[00:43:03] Motown Memories and Rivalries

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Jay Ray: So, you know, there's a lot of stories about this, but this really does go back to Motown years

for Gladys. So, and you know, people forget this, but Gladys Knight and the Pips were a Georgia, a Georgia group who ended up being

signed to Motown. And. The Queen of Motown was one Diane Ross, okay? And they were not treated, they, and Gladys Knight has said it many times, they were not treated kindly, uh, during their Motown years, and they were more than happy to move on. But, um, there's a lot of old, bad blood As it relates to that, but I will say this. We just saw it, sir. Daniel. Listen, Gladys came on that stage. Gave miss Ross that side hug and sang down.

DJ Sir Daniel: They were going to keep it cute.

They will always were. And Yeah.

[00:44:09] Diana Ross: The It Girl of Motown

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DJ Sir Daniel: So here's the thing. People would not compare Diana Ross vocally to Gladys Knight or to a Patti LaBelle. And we, you know, we're gonna make that clear. They don't compare vocally. But I think what Berry Gordy saw, what the rest of the world saw, is that Diana Ross Is, is an it girl.

You cannot stop looking at her. You can't, uh, now, although she is said that they were reporters were told to only speak to her when this was in the Supremes days, they were told. Only speak to Diane, Diana, only talk to her, direct your questions to her because she's the leader of the group.

Jay Ray: Mm

DJ Sir Daniel: And so of course that carries over into everything else, preferential treatment in dressing rooms, clothing, taking somebody else's band member.

Cause you saw them and you wanted them in your band, all of that, all of that stuff happens and you know, but what she does have, like I said, is star power. One of the funniest things to me, Jerry, is that. If you look at all of some, a lot of Diana's old performances, mama is always running to the

Jay Ray: Hmm. Right. Listen,

she's going to jog.

DJ Sir Daniel: it.

She's going to jog to the stage. She's going to have, she's going to be holding onto a

Jay Ray: a garment you know her right? Yes. Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: going to, and she's going to breath. She's going to breath and see a, um, uh, Uh, address the crowd and greet them and then she's going to have a good old time and that's just something you just can't buy you that you either you're born with it, basically, and she's got it.

She's got it. Now what she and what she also has is that she has the sense of when to, Put a little leg out and pull it back because she knows like at the, um, the,

Jay Ray: The Oprah thing, the legends ball,

DJ Sir Daniel: ball, all of them were there. And you know, that, that, that Sunday morning piece is the, is a part that's still viral to this day, but gospel brunch where Shaka, Patty, Gladys.

Um, some of the gospel girls, I can't think of their names right now, ate that microphone up. They did another mic toss. There's a lot of mic tossing in this episode.

They did another mic toss and Diana let them just say, Oh, y'all got it.

Jay Ray: listen, you have to know Diana Ross is an undeniable talent. Like, um, her tone, the way she delivers a song is just one of my favorite things. She's, she. Every singer has their thing. So walking funny that we're talking about Diana, uh, Diana Ross, but Janet Jackson just walked on the stage with a microphone.

So

she's participating in the, that's what friends are for peace. She's another one of those vocalists, right? That people will put in that this person can't whatever,

but the reality is they can, and they do it in their own way. And Diana Ross say it, say it. That woman's voice and tone goes. Those songs that we love are hits for a reason.

Those songs would sound completely different if Diana's voice was not on them. So divas, these were the, the divas

DJ Sir Daniel: The divas of 83. That's speaking of, it's funny that you mentioned Janet and people not thinking that Janet's voices, all of that, um, over the past weekend. I don't, I'm sure y'all saw her performance at essence. Um, weekend

Jay Ray: Mm hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: ate that performance. She completely, the microphone was on. She, her, um, her choreography, of course, is on a hundred and I mean, talk your stuff, Janet.

I was, what she said, I was a baby when my first number one came. This is when she was singing. When I think of you, this was her first number one, 86. She said, I'm 58 now and I'm still out here carrying for y'all and I'm still carrying the girl. So, I mean, and a lot of, and longevity, there's a lot to be said about longevity in this.

In this, um, industry that we call the music industry and business. And there's just certain things, talent that you just cannot. By, um, the way people pay attention to you, you just cannot buy or bottle that. They try to manufacture it today, but it's just not the same thing. And here we see three women who have organically, as the kids say, got it out the mud from day one, um, doing everything that it took to become superstars.

And to this day, we do not forget them. We still speak their names.

And I think it's so important that yes. We talked about all the conflict,

the, the line, the, the lying, the stealing or whatever that happened behind the scenes. But what they did show us was that there was room for more than one.

Jay Ray: Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: And they were able to still have magnificent careers of their own.

And nobody, yes, they waited so, you know, years later to speak their truths, but nobody was beefing publicly and, you know, people, nobody got shot or killed or, you know, nobody's in the tabloids and telling about each other's mess. I think, you know, I think maybe just it was the generation that they just didn't believe in airing everything out.

During your dirty laundry that has something that definitely has something to do with it.

And I think it worked in their favor.

Jay Ray: Yeah. And I also think part of it too, is you just don't have time when you are as busy as those women, you don't have time, right? You just like, listen, I'm about to drop this project. I got to do that. I have to work on my stuff, you know? And I think the other thing too, is that you talked about the fact that there was room, all of the records that I listened to. We're distinct in their own way. Like every single woman had their own style of delivering a song. And it's like, Oh, that's special. That's why you can like Gladys and Patty and Diana and the sister. We're about to talk about because you're going to get something from each and every one of them that is uniquely them. And it's okay. So that's why Stan, the Stan stuff is so weird to me. Cause I'm like,

child, you can like Nikki and Cardi and Meg. Like it's okay. They don't have to like each other. You can like all three of them.

DJ Sir Daniel: exactly. And that's it. Point blank.

[00:51:23] Angela Bofill's Legacy and Struggles

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DJ Sir Daniel: Um, you mentioned our next, so we've added a diva to this, to this mix that really deserves some shine. She had a landmark, uh, birthday. in May as well.

Um, Angela Bowfield, she turned 70 back in May. Um, unfortunately she passed away about a month later. Um, but she has struggled with some health issues for very, very long times.

She suffered a couple of strokes. Uh, I remember listening to, to Danielle Smith's interview with for the black girl songbook podcast. And Danielle nearly had me in tears, but just talking to her, you know, Angela Bofill had been singing all those years, but because of the strokes, sometimes she just couldn't remember songs or she couldn't remember, and these are songs that she wrote and the stroke had, you know, had taken that part away from her, her ability to sing at some, at some times, but we got to talk about 1983 as it pertains to Angela Bofill because she dropped.

The classic album too tough, and it was too tough. The title track. I mean, come on. Tough.

Jay Ray: Too Tough by Angela Bofill, the song is one of the best songs of the 1980s. Like for those that are listening, if you have never heard that song, just go drop it right now. You not going to be able to not dance. So this album is Arguably, because there are the jazz purists that will be like, No, Angela's first two albums are her first.

So Angela Beaufield, let's, let's talk about it real quick. So Angela Beaufield, much like a Patrisse Russian kind of came to, you our awareness. This is before, um, both you and I were really born Sir Daniel as kind of a jazz artist. So her

first two albums were jazz influenced albums. They were R and B albums, but definitely jazz influenced and solid.

You want to talk about two great records, this woman's Diction, I think is the right word. Like you understood the words that she was singing. She was a very precise songstress,

um, that had a style or her own. And, um, so. Like all the kids do. Clive Davis came calling and was like, I need you to come on over to the Arista. I'm sure Clive Davis was smoking like a Salem's or something and probably called the, you know, call the girls, Angie, baby, I want to get you in the studio, come on over here, you know, sure. It's

a white gay. I'm sure it was all, I'm sure it was all the things. I'm sure it was too much. Right.

But this,

DJ Sir Daniel: and he loved collecting black women.

Jay Ray: he loved collecting a black diva.

Okay.

So this record half produced by Narada, Michael Walden, the legend himself. Um, who of course goes on to the next year has Whitney Houston's

first album on lock. Um, but Narada, Michael Walden produces the first half of the record, which includes too tough. Um, and. Angela Beaufield herself produced the second half of the album.

Um, so the B side of the record and you know what's dope? So playing on this album, the whole album, Sheila Escovedo, one Sheila E

is doing percussion on this entire record. On the first half of the record is one American Idol alum, Randy Jackson is I think playing bass on this record. So there's like people whose names like. Who are their own stars who were

on Angela Beaufield's Too Tough. This joint right here, top to bottom, this record goes off. Like. Hehehe.

DJ Sir Daniel: It's a, it's a wonderful, I'm glad you brought up the jazz piece because I think, okay, so we talked about her technical, the technicalities of Angela Beaufield and her training, her writing. pen game was strong, but what I think a masterful vocalist always does is they're going to make you feel something they're going to make you feel what they what you need to feel through this song.

And she Always did that in every song. And there was always a, you can always feel like a bit of heartache attached to, of Angela both fill, um, vocal and there's this joy, but there's just a little, just a little sprinkling of, Hmm, that's, this is going through something, you know, she's, she's, she's, She's feeling a little bit of something, but all of her ballads, like what's the, um, the one on this is called, um, Tonight, Tonight

Jay Ray: yes. Uh, she actually produced that. Um, did she produce this? She's all tonight. I give it. No, that was a number out of

Michael

DJ Sir Daniel: I, Okay, so Tonight I Give In, like a lot of her ballads, uh, are very, Uh, it's just it makes you yearn for somebody even if you don't have somebody in your life or you do have somebody in your life and they're right there, but you still yearning for somebody like you. They're not there.

She'll make you do that.

She had that power that ability. And when I think about her, I think about Well, we're going to talk about a very famous, you know, viral moment that she had. But I think about her peers, like she came up in some really good company. We always saw her and Phyllis Hyman,

like gigging together, even when their careers were kind of like stationary.

They always get together because they had a relationship. They were friends. You know, they were part of that cloud. Like you said earlier that Clive Davis.

Jay Ray: Mm hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: Um, collective, but her, Mickey Howard, Shaka,

you know, imagine coming up those, those girls did not play vocally like you had, and they all, they all had a jazz influence.

If you think about it. Everybody had a jazz influence and they can be heard throughout this, these albums. And I just wish, I really wish Angela both feel like she got her flowers, but I really, really, really wish the world could have like really embraced her a little bit tougher, a little, you know what I'm saying?

Put her, have more moments of her. Like we all love this moment that she had on with Michael Jackson. And well, cause what was this? The

Jay Ray: think It was the

Grammys. It was the Grammys.

DJ Sir Daniel: Grammys.

Jay Ray: Please

tell the people what happened.

DJ Sir Daniel: if you haven't seen it, look up Angela Bofill and Michael Jackson Grammy moment. Angela Bofill and who was it that she was presenting with?

Was it,

Jay Ray: remember.

DJ Sir Daniel: was it Rod Stewart? Some, I know it was a man, it was a white man. And they were presenting for, I can't even remember which category,

but Gladys Knight was in the category. And so was Michael Jackson. Angela Bofill has the distinction of announcing that Michael Jackson is the winner and Michael Jackson is white, not white, white hot.

He is the biggest star. He's Everybody, you can't go a corner in the planet,

Jay Ray: Kipper's right.

DJ Sir Daniel: Kenny Loggins, and you can't go a corner on the planet and not know who Michael Jackson is. Michael Jackson bops up on stage, and this is, um, this is loafers and glitter socks, Michael Jackson, and one, and one glove, Michael

Jay Ray: White hot era, michael jackson Oh,

DJ Sir Daniel: And I guess he kind of defs up whoever the guy is, but he goes over and plants the biggest kiss on Angelo Bofill's mouth. And Angelo Bofill is she, she could have melted. She could have, okay, I'll be a little inappropriate. There's a gif of, um, that comedian, Kimberly, uh, the one that everybody, um, Kimberly,

Jay Ray: like melts like I guess

DJ Sir Daniel: the comedian, she, anyway, she's somebody that says she's wiping off the side of her leg. If you know what I mean? Like her inner thigh, she's, she's like pantomime, like wiping off her inner thigh and like, Ooh, it's, you know, it's moist. But anyway, so Angela Bofield is just in this moment. is overheating.

Like she is literally back there. Michael has given his speech, but she's back to her like about the hyperventilate because the biggest star in the world knows who she is. He probably already

Jay Ray: He

DJ Sir Daniel: an appreciation for

Jay Ray: he had it. He clearly knew like this is angela bowfield right

DJ Sir Daniel: The Angela Bofill and so, and was like, she's back there this whole time. Just having to commit at one point. She looks over at Kenny Loggins is like, Oh yeah. Yup.

Jay Ray: That happened.

DJ Sir Daniel: That happened and it happened to me, but no, we brought, we want,

I think it was important to include Angela in this conversation because she put in the work,

Jay Ray: Yeah

DJ Sir Daniel: she put in the work and we.

Still, we have it. We have the hard copies to prove. No, this woman. Was that girl? She did. She's a singer songwriter. Um, um, she can convey emotions, all of that stuff. And let's not forget her, um, her, uh, her, uh, Latin influence, which is probably why she reached out to Sheila.

Jay Ray: Mm hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: And yeah, I just, it hurt me when she passed because I know she was, she has suffered quite a bit, but I'm glad she's free from that.

But we have all of this work. Angel of the night is still my, one of my favorite albums by her.

Jay Ray: Yeah, so interesting that you mentioned that record in particular. So when I was a kid, um I will never forget because the album cover was so striking as the brown And angela was kind

DJ Sir Daniel: It's at

Jay Ray: on the beach and it's at night and she was just staring into the camera. So I specifically This is why I'm a photographer. I remember that cover so vividly. I didn't know, I didn't have an understanding of the music on that album until much later, like I was in my teens, but from when I was a kid, I remember thumbing through and like always like looking at this woman on this album. And it was Angela Bofill. Angie to her people.

You know what I'm saying? And knowing that once I got to hear the record, like, Oh my God, this woman is singing down. Yeah.

Special.

[01:03:05] Supporting the DJ Community

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DJ Sir Daniel: Jerry, before we wrap up, I just want to, um, if you all are following me on social media at DJ Sir Daniel, like Instagram or Facebook, I have recently posted one of, um, the members of the DJ community here in Atlanta.

It's a DJ low key is experiencing some, um, Some health struggles and has to have some major major surgery and will not be able to work for a while The life of a DJ is literally gig by gig You and this this man has a family that he's taking care of and so I'm just asking you all if you dig me You know and you dig the fact that I'm a DJ And you love DJ culture, um, DJ, a low key could really use your help.

Um, if you go to my page, you will see a post that has all his, um, information on there. If you'd like to make a donation and just, you know, if you're feeling in your heart, please do it. Um, because at some point or another, we're All at some point or another, we are all going to need to depend on the mercy of someone else.

So that's what I wanted to say really quick. Jerry, please let the folks know, um, just how do they can continue to support us cue

Jay Ray: yeah. Um, really quickly. I wanted to, um, I'm so glad you mentioned, uh, DJ low key. Um, um, I have so many fond memories of parties that Loki has hosted. This man has filled us with joy over the years. And so this support is just so incredibly important. So I just want to echo everything that you just said, please.

We'll make sure that we put it on our, our, our pages because it is important. That we come through and support to make sure that, uh, he has what he needs. But, um, in terms of Queue Points, thank you all, uh, for being with us. Y'all are doing the main thing. If you hear our voice, if you see our faces, like we always say, that is important, subscribe.

Share the show, friends, family, colleagues. If you love Queue Points, chances are they will love Queue Points. If you learned something and you heard something on this show that you're like, oh my god, I didn't know that, talk to us in the comments. We'd love to hear from you. Our YouTube comments be so fun. Some people be like all in the comments saying some crazy stuff.

Some people be like, I love all the things. We want all

the comments. So

DJ Sir Daniel: we want them

Jay Ray: we want them all. So definitely send us messages. Um, visit our website at Queue Points. com. Join our mailing list. Read the blog, um, magazine. Queue Points. com and shop our store, store. Queue Points. com. We have some amazing merch. Uh, thanks to all the folks that continue to support.

Thanks to you for tuning in and being here with us. We appreciate y'all so much.

DJ Sir Daniel: that's going to do it for us. Like I always say, J Ray in this life, you have a choice. You can either pick up the needle or you can let the record play. I am DJ sir, Daniel,

Jay Ray: My name is Jay Ray y'all.

DJ Sir Daniel: and this is Queue Points podcast, dropping the needle on black music history. We will see you on the next go round piece.

Jay Ray: Peace y'all.

[01:06:31] Closing Theme

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