Donwill on The Almanac of Rap & The Art of the Interview

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This episode of Queue Points is brought to you by Okayplayer's Almanac of Rap.

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Peace

Greetings and welcome to another episode of Queue Points podcast.

I am DJ Sir Daniel.

And my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my government

as Johnnie Ray Kornegay III.

And Sir Daniel, I gotta say we got a legend in the building.

We have guests.

I've straightened up.

I've made sure that, you know, the right lighting is, is hinting.

The albums are straightened.

Um, you can't see it right now.

The sign is a little crooked.

I didn't get to that.

But Jay Ray, there's been a lot of hip hop conversations going on.

You know, albums have dropped and people are just, things are things

people are saying all kinds of stuff.

And there's a lot of glazing, there's a lot of praising and all of it

carrying on and all of that is fine.

But here at Queue Points, we believe in speaking to people who are

genuine articles of the art of hip hop, people that know what they're

talking about, people that actually love the music and the arts, and

the different elements of hip hop.

So I think our guest fits all of that criteria.

Jay Ray, what do you say?

Absolutely.

Our, our guest lives, this culture is, this culture breathes this culture.

And before we introduce him, I, I want to just do two things.

'cause what's great is there are these folks in the Queue Points universe that,

that this person is also connected to.

So we gotta shout out LiKWUiD,

Yes.

making sure

Much love to

this

LiKWUiD.

happen.

Al Pete.

So he's been on Mr. Al Pete's podcast.

Of course, Mr. Al, Pete is our brother.

But, um, folks joining us on our show today is Donwill.

Donwill is a certified rap encyclopedia, or rather in Almanac ha.

He is the host of The Almanac of Rap.

Webby award-winning podcast.

A Webby award-winning Okayplayer produced podcast series.

The series combines rap conversations with deep in the

weeds, fandom and satirical humor.

All curated by Donwill himself, a former blogger who's written for the Village

Voice traded book recommendations with Lupe Fiasco and rapped with Drake.

As a member of the duo Tanya Morgan, Donwill employs a workman like approach to

the art of journalism, taking at least a week to research each episode of his show.

appreciation as much as attention to craft.

It's also why his podcast stands as a show by and for the culture.

More specifically speaking, Donwill is the culture.

He is the rapper-turned-podcaster we deserve And it is.

Without further ado, Queue Points family.

Welcome Donwill to the show.

What's

Welcome.

What's happening Don?

Listen, man, I was listening to that, to the, to the introduction,

the greeting, and I'm like, this for me?

Are

It is

me?

you.

He

That's you.

That's you.

so it must be about me, but I don't know if I know what

I'm talking about all the time.

Absolutely.

And You put in the work, you put in the hard yards to, to get this rep

and to, you know, this reputation.

And clearly you have a love for rap music and hip hop.

Hip hop in general.

Just school, our viewers and listeners right now and tell us a little

bit about The Almanac of Rap and just this inception and why'd you

even start calling it the Almanac?

So was called, initially it came about from a Twitch stream.

I used to do, um, I had a, I used to stream on Twitch during the pandemic

and a friend of mine, DJ Lindsay, had a show on Sonos Radio called, think

it was called Black is, um, but it was just a show about just black culture and

black, really black musical touchpoints and things within the black community.

And she would come to my Twitch stream and I would like do

these like rants about artists.

I have, I had a rant about LL Cool J as one of the most ridiculous people to ever.

Just a ridiculous man.

I wanna hear this rant

Listen, you've got my attention.

right.

will give you the abbreviated version.

LL Cool J has been unhinged the entire time.

He's maniacal.

Like from seeing him on the I'm bad video running down the street and then

jumping around a condemned warehouse, like I was like, oh, this man is special.

And he's proven to be as special as we think he is.

Up until like, like, uh, the "Deepest, bluest, my hat is like a shark's fin."

Yeah.

Yeah.

So imagine an hour's worth of that with music and

commentary and stopping the song and like talking about the lyrics.

And my friend was like, you should really look at like, adapting this

into a show and trying to like make a show about I don't know what, but I

think you have the personality for it.

Um, and prior to that I had been podcasting before.

I had a show called a Book of Rhymes where I, um, just interviewed lyric

interviewed artists about their catalog and about their lyrics.

Before that, I had a podcast called Bad With Names, where I

would just interview friends and people about whatever, you know.

was more or less just about the art of conversation, just talking to people.

Um, I've always had like a, I. I don't know.

I just really like recording and I like the audio space.

Yeah.

know, like outside of doing lyric, outside of rapping and

recording lyrics, it just lent itself to spending more time with voices.

Like getting in the DAW and getting in the dig digital audio

workstation and editing the voices and like putting effects on there.

Like it's, it is just so much fun for me to play in that way.

Um, the show itself, the Almanac rap, so all of that to say, um, I,

I do have a deep care for hip hop.

Mm.

And I have a deep, deep care for interviewing and for treating guests

a certain way because as an artist myself, I do remember, I remember good

interviews and I remember bad interviews.

I remember interviews where you would show up and the person would

be like, and what's your name?

What, what did you, what did you do?

Who are, what do you do?

Yeah.

you would get thrown into like a, like basically just you would

get thrown into a conversation with a stranger who hadn't done any research

because either their team hadn't researched them or they just didn't do it.

And part of the reason why I take so long to do my research is because I

at least want to have like a working knowledge of the person I'm talking to.

Hmm.

I have had, I, like, I like a week, but I have had like interviews that

I've had to turn around in like 24 hours,

Yeah.

And I think that, that the way that my anxiety is set

up, you can't really tell if it's been a week or 48 hours.

Yeah, no, I could relate to that.

I could relate to that as a, as a dj, like, especially when we're talking about

vinyl, I need to know what I'm playing.

Like I know, I, I know several DJs that just bring crates with them,

records

and they just, they're just like, Hmm, eh,

I guess I'll just play this.

And I'm like, the way my anxiety is set up cannot, cannot.

And I, I, I appreciate that as well with regards to interviewing, because

we put the same amount of care into what we do here at Queue Points.

So, Jay Ray, I think we, we've met another cousin.

We've definitely, uh, akin, this is definitely kinfolk here.

Absolutely.

could tell by the, uh, by the guest email, like

the email that was sent to

Oh, we do like that.

Yeah.

I, I was like, I, I know what I'm getting into it.

I felt very comfortable,

Yeah.

comfortable coming onto the show.

Like, I've, I've gotten somewhere.

I'm just like, let's see how this turns out.

So glad.

Shout out to anybody that wants to talk to me at all.

Like, I, I

Yes.

anybody that's willing to share their platform with me, but a

show goes that extra mile to really just care about the details and buttoning

things down and making sure that the guest feels like their time is going

to be respected in a way, you know, that's the thing that I care the most

about is making sure my guests know that I respect their time and the fact

that they show up for me, you know?

And that's what we definitely strive to do.

And I'm so glad you had that experience, brother.

We appreciate that note.

Um, I, I, moving from, so there's the stage, there's all the stuff you do

musically, and then of course being in this, uh, this, this podcast space

in this current moment, what are some things that are the same that you

bring from that world into this work?

And what are some things that you're like, Ooh, I've had to really learn how to do

this and really, really figure it out?

I think the thing that I've had to learn how to do more

than anything is be present.

And it's gonna sound really weird, but I think that, you know, as a DJ you

can relate, um, sometimes when you're performing whatever your craft is and

you've rehearsed it and done it so many times, you can go to autopilot.

Like, I, like, there's so many countless stories of artists and other people

who will be on stage and be doing the, the hit song and be like, yeah,

I was thinking about what we got, what we gonna eat later after the show.

Or I had to think like, you get so distracted by the life that you're living

the other things, the external forces in that life that sometimes it's hard to

really ground yourself in that moment.

so sometimes when I was on stage, like I have to remember to be present on stage.

Yeah.

remember like, you're in front of X amount of people performing a song.

Just because you know the words and your body understands exactly what to do.

When this bar comes, still lock in.

'cause, so on the flip, when you're in a conversation with a person.

Like you have to lock in.

Yeah.

be distracted, especially when it's being recorded because it

comes off, you know what I'm saying?

that's one of the main things that I, you know, that I've,

I've had to like, adjust to.

But something that I brought from the music space, um, and

brought from performance space.

Is just curiosity.

I'll say that,

Yeah.

um, you know, like really, like when you're writing a rhyme or when you're

looking for a record for a mix, or when you're looking for a sample, you almost

have to be curious in a different sort of way, like in a way that makes you unique.

Like, I always say that I like to think of, think about the questions that

I pose in interviews as being things that are just outside of the frame.

Yeah.

know what I'm saying?

It's like you see a picture and you see somebody in a picture

in like the background, like

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes.

like, well, what was he pointing at?

Right.

you, you start to go through a whole forensic essay and of like,

okay, so they're in a supper club and the light was demo over there,

so maybe he couldn't see like you.

And that's, that's where my mind usually goes is I'm always trying

to figure out a interesting angle to talk to a person that may have been

talked to a million times or that may have never been talked to, you know?

Man, you, you, that clearly comes across in The Almanac of Rap.

So I'm going to give people, I'm gonna give y'all a spoiler for one

of the things that you'll experience if you check out Donwill's show.

So I was checking out the Raekwon show you asked him one of the most

fascinating questions, and you was like, why was the tape purple?

And I said, why was

Huh?

purple?

Huh.

And to have him be like, actually it was supposed to be

green, but they didn't have green.

I said, that is the best question ever.

the best because the thing is you just assume like, oh, he

wanted it to be purple the whole time.

'cause like purple is the color of royalty.

It means so much.

It's also one of those colors that like, it speaks volumes.

If you

Yes.

purple, you'd notice it.

And if you see, if you see green, it doesn't really, I mean, I love green,

but it doesn't really hit the same

Yeah.

Like green is more of a grounding color, and purple is more

like this kind of opulent royal color.

So for me, when he said it was like, oh, it was supposed to be

green, I was just like, what?

Right.

Like, but why?

yeah, if, if, if the multiverse is real and we go back in time to

when Raekwon dropped the green tape, I don't, I don't think it would've hit

the same, you know, I think, I think that that, I think that the marketing

of the purple tape, even saying the

The real tape.

it's more fun with a two syllable word, with a, p puck gr

like, just thinking about the, the syllables in the word like.

Green tape.

Don't really got that, but purple.

You got, you have to reckon with the word purple.

You have to like say it.

Yes.

you can't, you can't really like just lazily say purple.

No.

say green.

You know what

Yeah, you, you definitely have to take your knife

and fork with it, slice it up.

You, you just can't devour that and just try to swallow that

whole, that's absolutely correct.

And that's the mark of someone who takes their craft seriously.

And, um, we talk about music journalism and hip hop journalism

is spoken a lot of lately, has been spoken a lot of these days.

And you know,

Hmm.

anybody can get a microphone and, you know, set up

some cameras and, you know, have conversations like who's your, who's

your favorite top five dead or alive

Yes.

until the cows come home.

But Donwill, what are the conversations that we're not having in hip hop?

What are the conversations that we should be having right now in

this state of the, the state of the music, the state of the world?

What are the conversations that you think that we should be having?

Instead of things that might be a little, you know, banal that people keep talking

about over and over again in these spaces.

Hmm.

think that a conversation that's starting to bubble to the surface,

because it has to, is not even ageism, but just aging into hip hop and just,

you know, like, like a lot of, a lot of artists we, we love are entering

their fifties or leaving their forties, or, you know what I'm saying?

Like, so that, that aspect of, of just being an adult, it's, it's something that

comes up in conversation because when you, if you interview De La Soul or you

interview Common or you know, MC Lyte or Pete Rock, you, like, you almost have to

talk about adulthood in a different way.

I mean, you, you don't have to, but they bring that into the room with them.

So their answers are gonna be different.

Like, like if you asking somebody like, yo, what do you do after a show?

And they're like, I go to sleep.

Right.

It's

Yeah.

you asked them, ask them when,

Right.

put on some Icy Hot, I'm wrapping I'm wrapping my knee.

But you asked them that 20 years ago and it's like, ah, man, we going to the

club and the studio and Whoopty whoop.

Or you know, like, just in terms of like their, their wellness

routine and like how they, how they recuperate from studio or the tour.

So that sort of thing is something that I feel like is being talked about more.

Something that I don't think is being talked about enough in general.

Ah, man, it's tough because nothing's being talked about.

Let's go.

No, I mean, let's, no, let's stay there.

say I, I don't wanna say nothing.

I don't wanna be like salacious for the sake of having a thing.

But I will say that lot of hip hop journalism and a lot of outlets can't

really, they can't compete with Instagram and they can't compete with social media.

So they're kind of beholden to, you know, just asking the same old

questions or asking questions that, asking questions about Instagram.

'cause they're

Right.

up with the thing that's happening.

So, you know, they're not taking a chance to look the, the fullness

of an artist or the fullness of their personhood or career.

They're just focused on like, so you, you, I saw a post where you was

like, you were going back and forth with Bootsy, tell me about that.

Or some shit.

And it's not really you know.

like, so, so let's just stay there for a second.

So.

We talk a lot about gatekeeping here on Queue Points and you know, not

inviting everybody to the cookout

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

so there are a lot of conversations I feel are not being

handled, talking about maturity, are not being handled with maturity, are not being

handled with, um, with any kind of finesse or pro, just a lot of gotcha moments.

There's a lot of sensationalism and so it's like, who, how do the, the

formats, how do the people that, the platforms that are actually taking the

gig seriously and wanting to have those conversations, how do we uplift that

and how do we offset the algorithm to pick, pick that up more instead of,

you know, the clip, the clip baits that we're getting that're being fed.

I, I think that.

It's.

I'm trying to think of, trying to formulate my thoughts correctly

because like we're at the point where the clip is the whole thing.

the clip

Yeah.

you know, we we're recording this conversation for your listeners

and the people who watch the whole thing are gonna get it, but there are

people who will only encounter whatever clip goes out and that's, that's the

end and beginning of the relationship.

You know what I'm saying?

And I'm fully aware of that now, and I understand that there's a,

a art to the clip and making sure that the clip is at least poignant

enough to cause a conversation in the space that it exists in.

but you know, the other thing is that, and I don't know if this answers the question,

Budin along, like, he, he was the first person that I remember saying the word

poin, like P-O-D-D-I-N, like, oh, oh.

Now we podding, like when things are getting meaty in the podcast

and I don't think people really.

Understood the gravity of that word when he

Yeah.

it.

And I'm, I'm, when I say the gravity, I mean like when he says, now we're

podding, that means now we're in character of, of who we are for the audience, the

forward facing character of the podcast.

Like if your podcast is a red pill thing, then that's when

you get, that's when you do it.

That's when you in it.

If your podcast is a financial podcast and you really in a, in a

bag talking about some, some finance shit, that's when you're podding.

So I think that people just assume that the people on the microphones

are who they are the whole time.

Mm-hmm.

sometimes you're just, they're just in character

Right.

and those are the, those are the things that get clipped up and I

think that the best way to combat it.

Brother, I, it's gonna sound dire, but I don't know if we can comment.

That's real.

man.

I think we here and I think that our job, I think that our job as media

and content creators and artists is to do whatever our version of that is.

Like get in our bag, get in, get in our, like our character and embody

whatever moment that we're in is.

So like if I'm, if I'm talking to Raekwon about the color of the tape and

he said some real shit, there we are.

Yeah.

you service that.

Or know, I think, I think the, it was not even a fight fire with fire,

it's just to let that bitch burn.

Sorry for cussing.

Sorry for cussing.

You are good.

this is leading me to a, a, a place.

And I'm, I'm curious about this, like when you put on your, your artist hat, right?

Um, it is different in this moment.

Shout also.

Shout out.

It's the 20th anniversary of Moonlighting, actually.

So 2006 is when that record came out.

Y'all came in right at that time when everything was shifting.

Literally all the widgets were moving at that moment in 2006.

Uh, to where kind of moving us to where we are now.

Now there isn't, when artists need to get put on, they're using their social, they

have to build their audiences themselves now basically before they get put on.

but for those artists that are like, listen, I'm good at making beats.

I'm good at getting on the mic.

What I am not good at is getting on social media and, and selling y'all

and cooking y'all grilled cheese.

I can't do that.

What do you say to those folks that are like, that are talented and are,

are like, the world needs to hear you, but they need to break through.

Like, what, what advice would you give them as somebody who's been

doing this on all sides of this?

Yeah, I'm dealing with it too.

Um, and the hardest part about it is, you know, figuring out.

How to make yourself palatable outside of your talent to a audience

that you didn't think you had to make yourself palatable to.

So it's sort of like, it's sort of like you built these audiences on these

social platforms thinking that you have an audience and you're actually

just building a collection of people that particular platform to advertise

other things too, because they follow you and they know who you are.

So I think that, you know, the thing that I've been kind of trying to figure

out with my content, because you know, you gotta just call it what it is.

Call it spade a spade, is understanding that,

I recorded an album.

I made an album.

Me and a producer, The Expert, we sat down, made this album, done.

It sounds fantastic.

It's 12 14 songs.

Now, how do you make content about that?

Because that's not the content, that's the art.

do

Alright.

content about the art?

And even within that.

How do you do it in a way that's true to you?

you know, we can use all the, the terminology, the ick and all that shit.

It, it, that's not really a, that's not really a thing if you're

trying to market and promote.

It is a thing.

It's a thing if you're doing it in a way that's out of character for who you are.

But you know, like if.

Like if you do cook and that's what you do, you know, just turn

on the camera, cook a meal, and then place your audio over it.

Yeah.

say something to camera like, like, there's a

million ways to skin a cat.

But the thing that I've been resting, my resting easy about with it all is

that I, a saying that I have is that the typos now are more important than

ever because AI is about perfection.

Yeah, buddy.

if you can be as human as you can, you can be full

of errors, you can, whatever.

You gotta, whatever you do, don't feel bad about it.

Not shining through with this perfect sheen because you

got robots dancing in China.

You know what I'm saying?

You got you.

Terribly, by the way.

I love seeing robots bust their

Right.

you got.

Yeah, they glitch out.

you know, you got, you got robot food delivery carts.

The

Yeah.

themselves, the, the po, the ai, you can make AI podcast.

They're making this so that you can now do remixes of songs with ai.

They're doing all these things because they just have the data and they're,

they're essentially, they're bored.

You know what I'm saying?

When I say bored, that's probably the wrong word.

But just have this technology and they're trying to find all

these other ways to implement it.

And I'm like, just build a robot to make mining safer.

Go, go put a robot in the fucking mind so people don't lose arms

and shit, but, you know, whatever.

So I know, I, I know I took a long tangent, uh, long way of saying

this, but the short answer is.

You know, it's gonna sound very, uh, what's the word?

not stereotypical, it's gonna sound, um, cliche, it's gonna sound very

cliche, but you just gotta be yourself.

Just be you, just cut on the camera and be exactly who you are.

Um, and again, that's something that I've been griping dealing with because, um,

I don't like the forward facing camera,

Oh, okay.

and your podcast is, is video now too.

It is video.

Uh, it's because not filming myself so I don't have to,

Uh, so you don't have to worry about it.

You have a, yeah.

Right.

it's, it's much easier for me.

It's for me anyway, it's much easier to have someone filming me and making

decisions on what they think looks good aesthetically than me filming myself.

and that's, that's been my hangup all the time.

It's like, I, you, you don't really see too much of me Instagram,

like doing the, yo, what's up?

It's done.

Will, you know what I'm saying?

I'm just, just checking in to tell you.

I don't do that a lot because I just, I'm just not comfortable with it all the time.

Yeah.

and it's just something that you have to get comfortable with.

just have to.

And that's fair.

That's very fair.

Um, you know, I, I think it might be generational.

'cause I know, you know, some, me, for me, like the, it is kind of foreign, you know,

um, having a camera and talking into it.

Now talking into a tape recorder, that's different.

You know, again, generational.

But knowing that you're, you've, you're able to continue and to shine just

being yourself and like you said, um, not be artificial intelligence, but to

be yourself, be human and have flaws.

What does being supported by Okayplayer

mean to you in that sense?

That, 'cause it sounds like, Okayplayer is okay with you being the way

you're, you know what I'm saying?

like that.

I like that.

Yeah.

It's, it's a, it's a, a, a full circle moment.

Like it's a, and even even thinking about how the album was 20 years old, like

Yeah.

around the time I logged onto the website for the first time.

It was in

Das crazy.

Yeah.

was.

Yeah.

So like, you know, walking into the offices and seeing like, you know, they

have a little timeline of events and like my, my group's Morgan stuff is back there

in oh six and then I'm up there in 2026.

it's a really wild feeling.

Um, Okayplayer has been nothing but supportive, helpful.

Um, and in terms of cha turning the, turning the, podcast into a

video show, been like, they have a vision for it, you know, like,

I definitely had the audio thing.

I knew exactly what I was doing exactly, but when you start

pointing cameras at me, I'm like, I don't, I don't, I don't know, man.

So shout out to shout out to them over there.

You know what I'm saying?

Because the whole staff over there, the whole team, because they, they 1000%, um.

Made the, made the Video podcast what it was like.

I, I didn't, I don't, I don't take credit for the video

aspect of the podcast at all.

know, I do have a vis, I do have input and I do have say, and I do

have like a, you know, we should do X, Y, Z, the way you have to approach

video, and this might be why this might be touching on the conversation

about the front face of camera.

There's a way you have to approach the visual image and treat the

visual image that, you know, wanted it to look a certain way, if you

want it to be a certain thing.

Like, I, I can't, I don't have that sauce.

So you were just opening act, Michelle Buteau was on tour big things.

Congratulations for you

Earth.

to do that work.

Right.

Um, so there's two things in that.

One, um, I saw that you released very recently actually a, a video clip

of your set a, I think it was, it was a Vegas show that you had done.

And what I loved about it was you did like three things in there.

You dj, you rap, and the crowd work was really important.

And then I learned in the research to this that you have a comedy background.

I don't know how I missed that in your background, you

did some work at comedy too.

So two things.

what was the hardest part about prepping for being the opening act on those shows

and how important was that crowd work to like sticking the landing for you?

Oh man.

Both.

In both.

Yes and yes.

The hardest thing about prepping for those shows

figuring out how to make my music translate to a universal audience.

because, you know, if, if any, if any listeners out there that

aren't familiar with the music that I make, it is backpack rap.

It is Boom, bap.

We do have some songs that are, you know, danceable, singable.

But for the most part, my solo catalog, you have to search for a hook.

just like, I don't know what's happening.

is a DJ scratch and it is a fucking,

Yeah.

for minutes.

It's, it's, it's very artful hip hop.

It's

Yes.

And like I do what I do in a way that I've cultivated enjoys

Yes.

and going in front of her audience, 'cause I've been DJing for her

and working with her a long time now.

Like I did our last tour with her as well.

Okay.

Nice.

DJ'ed that tour.

I didn't, I didn't like perform.

I just DJ'ed and then we had a op, have an opening act from city to city.

But the thing that I learned on that run was that.

Her audience is very diverse and gauges, gauges slightly out of the age range

of what my demographic is musically.

Um, so, you know, even within the DJ set, like I'm not,

I'm not playing respectfully.

I'm not playing like tribe or ll or, you know, like I'm, I'm, I'm playing

like, that that audience wants to hear.

It's not really a, like if it's, if it's some rap shit, it's the girls, it's like

Yeah.

like, you know, like city Girls is a lot for them,

So it, for me it was just, okay, what do I do to make these songs appeal?

And part of it was two songs.

I, I, I did a, I did a beat switch on one song, and then on another song

I just did a whole different beat.

because I figured that if I could just make the, the sound bed

interesting enough, the message would be cut through still.

And then within that, also the crowd work and engaging the audience

was a big part of it because.

The thing about rap shows and the thing about shows in general, if you're not

familiar with the artist, especially rap, just a lot of words coming at you really

Yeah.

It's just a lot of like, you know what I'm saying?

Me semi angry whatever the thing is or it is it, won't say it's not musical,

but it's not singing, singing, I think, I think if you're watching a person

singing for the first time, it's fine.

You're like, oh, okay, this person, oh, they can sing cool.

But a rap act for the first time, it gives you so much more space

to it on, on a different metric.

so that was the crowd work thing was fun because it was also very rewarding.

It's like kept calling it like a magic trick, by the time I

get through the first song.

Like, people are just applauding.

Yes.

yeah, and some of that applause.

I'm gonna keep it funky.

Some of that applause is like, okay, this is over.

We, we get the headliner.

And I'm like, no, you don't.

Alright,

I

Bring her on.

But so, so that's what makes the crowd work important.

For the most part, for the most part, not even, for the most

part, the, the reception that I got was overwhelmingly positive.

it just, 'cause the other thing too is that I don't really do

solo shows I've been, I've been hiding in plain sight as a dj.

Like I found a way to be on stage and be involved in, in, in the, the, the,

the night, but not be even be front and center, but not be like the focal point.

When I dj it's about the music.

It's just, I'm, I'm enjoying the music as much as the audience is

and I'm also reading the room.

So there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of different things that go into

a DJ set that would, you know, it's a different muscle for me than rapping.

And this was the first time where like Michelle flat out was like,

the end of our last tour, this is how, this is how me performing on

her, opening on her show came to be.

She was like.

She just walked.

We were at the, I think we were in the beacon.

She was like, how come you don't rap?

And I was like, what do you mean?

And she was like, she's like, you are a rapper.

a whole like career albums.

come you haven't been rapping?

And I was like, I think I was just like, I didn't know I could do that.

I said, whatever I said was just, and she was like, you should rap.

And I was like, okay.

Then the next night she came back like, you're gonna rap.

And I was like, okay.

Then the tour ended.

That tour ended.

before this tour started, she was like, hit me up like

maybe two months in advance.

Like, so you're opening the tour, um, you have 20 minutes.

Figure out whatever you're gonna do, but it will be rap.

I love that.

See how your friends push you.

Yes.

community like pushing

Super important.

man.

And, and it's, it's so funny, like, 'cause that's one

of the most unlikely sources for a person to push you to rap is a

comedy comedian in the comedy space.

And she, she's like, I, I, man, I have nothing but like glowing,

kind, beautiful words from Michelle.

Like, she's one of my favorite people.

Uh, she's a really good friend and she like the, the, the stuff you

see and the, the message, it's not just, it's literally baked into her.

DNA, like she is one of the most giving kind people I know.

And she's funny,

Super funny.

She's hilarious.

but she also, you, like, she's not, she don't take

no shit, you know, she's, she's ever, like, I love her to death.

I love her to death, and I, I'm eternally grateful for her letting me, you

know, pull out the raps real quick for

Yes.

enjoyed it.

you know, it's so funny how, I guess this is just

a, a testament to how life.

Doesn't, it doesn't always turn out the way you, you thought it was going

to be, but still, like 20 years ago, you're thinking, yo, I'm, I'm a mc.

I'm just, I'm gonna hold it down and, you know, I'm gonna wrap my

raps and people are gonna love it.

Um, I also like the dj, you know, 'cause that's what I do.

I'm a bboy.

I know how to DJ as well.

I live this hip hop stuff.

But then comedy and, and hip hop are ha go hand in hand.

Quite frankly.

Our, our cu, our ca culture has really joined the two of

them together quite a bit.

And so who knew that preparing yourself back then as an mc and as

a DJ would lead you to this point?

You know, so it's just like, you just all the, the, the, all the, the, the practice

hours that you logged, I mean, it.

It was for a purpose, and here you are now.

So that's gotta feel really good when you look back and you, you see, you know, I've

accomplished this, this is what I did.

I think about it a lot and I mean, um, especially with that tour,

like there were just moments where like outside of the, outside of the opening

performance, like rapping, I would just, like, when I would, I would go back,

I would resume the op, the role of dj, and Michelle would be doing comedy and

she'd turn around, like we'd have banter.

rap got me here.

Yeah.

I think about it so many times, like, like I, you know, like,

I'm like, I'm in so many different rooms and so many different spaces

that I wouldn't have dreamed of being in because my vision for what.

What my path would be was so narrow.

It was like, I'm going to rap, I'm going to tour.

I remember the first job that I, well, not first, like, one of the last jobs I ever

quit was around early two thousands, and my boss was like, what are you gonna do?

I was like, I'm going on tour.

I'm gonna be a rapper.

And she was like, oh, I, I, you might wanna rethink that.

I'll, I'll give you a, I'll give you a 30 day grace period.

I was like, no, no, no.

The tour is 45 days.

I won't be back.

It's fine.

Within, within a month of that tour, I was like, uh, I think I need to go back.

I didn't go back though.

go back, but like, like the dedication and just like like,

no, this is what's gonna happen.

I'm gonna do it.

And also being open to whatever.

Being open to positive experiences and being open to

new experiences and learning.

all got me here in the same way, you know what I'm saying?

But like, it, it is just.

Sometimes I'll just be like at a random place like, like I DJ the Amby and I'm

Yeah.

Yeah.

presenting awards and I'm like.

I just used to rap.

Who to thunk it.

Who the

to thunk it.

thunk it?

I was in my bedroom making demos and now I'm, this is crazy, but it's never crazy.

It's just, it's, it's, it's not even about it being crazy.

It's about it being just your ministry.

Yeah.

Ooh.

Being your thing.

You know what I'm saying?

Like you're really like, like to to, to back to what I was saying about Joe Button

and the pod, like if you in your bag, if you just in your life bag, it works out.

It works out.

I don't even know.

This is gonna be interesting then, 'cause I'm curious to know what your, your answer

is, uh, to this next question, but what are you gra on the artistic side, um,

outside of pod, outside of podcasting?

Like what are you gravitating more to these days?

Is it like DJing is like the thing, the thing has rapping, like raised

back up since you've done the tour?

Like what, what's like the thing that you're gravitating

to the most right now and why?

So rap is my first language.

It's my fluency.

Um, I do have an album coming out, like I'm, I'm, I'm going to make a rap album.

I'm, I'm always gonna make some music.

So I have an album coming out in the fall with this guy, The Expert,

really dope producer from Ireland.

Uh, it's very boom bap.

It's, it's exactly what you would expect a man who made moonlighting to make.

Yes.

Um, but you know, like even within that, outside of

that, I would say right now I'm more, I'm just producing a lot.

I'm making beats.

I just enjoy the quiet and the, the, the focus of, of like the knobs and make and,

and the sampling and shit like writing.

When I write, writing for me is.

I have to be in the space to write.

I don't have, I don't have much to say.

I just, I just finished the album.

I don't have much to say that's new or unique.

I'm, I'm still in the middle of gathering the information.

DJing is always gonna be around like the, the three things.

So rapping, producing and DJing are just constants in my life and they never stop.

DJing is the one thing that I do the most.

and it's the thing that I genuinely am, I'm gonna be completely honest.

It's the thing I feel the luckiest to get to do

I,

because.

I, I totally get that.

It's one.

I came at one, I came about it late.

like it was the, it was the thing I put in my arsenal after everything else.

when I tell you, I understand why people are just like starting to DJ or pick

buying controllers or like whatever.

'cause there is literally nothing like a night where you had a, a, a

day that has whooped your ass and you, you turn on that fucking mixer,

them turntables, and you play the song that you've been dying to hear loud.

And the room wants to hear it too.

Like it is.

Man.

Like it's, it's the one thing that I truly, even when I'm like, I don't want

to, even when I have those moments where I'm like, I don't feel like doing this.

You're not like, it's like going to the gym.

Yeah.

there are sometimes, every gig is your favorite gig.

I'll just say that and I'm gonna leave it.

Yeah.

already know.

You already there you some gigs where you show up and like, your pay is a fuck, two

Yeah.

and a plate or whatever the fuck they wanna do for you that night.

that,

you,

if that.

sit, you sit your controller at the end of the bar or whatever.

You, you just doing your thing.

But it's, it's, it's such a, a beautiful, you know, it's such a beautiful task to

be able to just play music for people.

Yeah.

that's the whole thing.

That's the trade.

The trade is that even when it's like.

Those horror stories about requests and people like

coming up and asking for music.

They're real, but also on the environment, an opportunity to,

it's, it's, it's further research.

Like

Mm.

Yeah.

club and somebody comes up like, yo, me and my homies, we want

to hear X, y, z, whoopty, whoop.

And you, if you're actually watching the room and doing your

homework, then that might be the, the term that the night needs.

You know what I'm saying?

Or it might be a person that just.

You know, they just want to connect with somebody.

Yeah.

just literally, not everybody is, has nefarious, you know,

intentions when they approach a dj.

I won't, I won't, won't say everybody is like that, but for the most

part, I've softened up on requests.

There was a time where I was very, I, I, I remember stopping

the music and telling people like

Me alone.

that a woman walked up and request and I was just like, tell

the room what you wanted to hear.

That type of shit.

Do we wanna hear this?

You guys

Whoa.

sort of shit.

Yeah.

I would say I, I feel, I feel, I feel lucky and I feel blessed to be able to do

any of the things that I do for a living.

But DJing is just that one thing that man, like, it feels like you

can control the tone of a room, control the, the time, like you're

helping people have a better night.

Have a good night.

you are like, I tell, uh, sir, sir Daniel knows this.

So I'm a dancer.

Uh, uh, Donwill

Are done.

listen.

Um, and there was a period of time when I thought I wanted to be a dj and

because I love I, that, that, that the experience that I have as a dancer.

But what I realized is like, no, no, no.

I don't.

I just want to experience it.

And so I am a, a, a lover DJs and the experiences that y'all create

for us, and I sit in that experience.

I just want to go, sir Daniel knows I'm gonna hit the dance floor if

you get me hitting the dance floor.

You doing good?

And I was gonna say, and I'm sure Sir Daniel could attest that the

dancers are as as important as the dj.

Absolutely.

And.

and the fact that we don't see more people.

So if I see somebody break out, you know, there might be that one person

that breaks out, it's like, oh, whatever it it takes to keep that

person doing that, I'm going to do that.

I'm gonna continue playing because that person right there is who I'm playing for.

Because they, the outward display of joy is like, those are the, that's

what we, that's what DJs live for.

That's currency to us big time.

and I think the, I think a, a quiet part that doesn't really get

spoken about enough is that there are so many different types of DJs.

Yes.

like Jazzy Jeff.

If he comes to DJ or party, you're going to see Jazzy Jeff, period.

Absolutely.

I wanna watch him.

He's gonna do that CR do all of that work.

I wanna see it.

Whatever he gives you is what you're going to get

and you're gonna like it God.

And like there are other people like him.

Like he's, he's, he's, he's who he is.

He's of the cloth.

He's a like a icon.

But there are other icons, like who you go, you get what

they give and you enjoy it.

And then there are DJs who are working DJs who show up, read a room, play

to the audience and make sure that everybody's having a good time.

And you know what I'm saying?

Like, I'm not saying that that's all there is, but know, the gray area

between that like I. Really do enjoy reading rooms, making people move,

looking at pockets of people like, all right, so they're not dancing.

Let me see, you do a little, you do a little bit of like, like profile.

They like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna throw 'em some spice

girls and see what happens.

Yes.

like, I got 'em, I got 'em all right now, now how do I get these

niggas to party with these people?

And it's just like, it's this subtle dance of like, it's um, it's like anthropology.

I don't know if that's the right word for it, but you know what I'm saying.

You're, you're, you're doing this kind of like.

That's valid.

Yeah,

Just studying people.

Yes.

I, and as a people watcher who it's, it's my joy to like,

not only watch them, but them a little bit and make them dance.

Yes.

You know, Donwill, well, the, the, clearly, as a dj you speak

the language of music, but what also what DJs have to do is we always

also have to keep our ears fresh.

And, you know, people are always asking us to listen to new music and to check

this out, to have you heard this?

Um, but you have a substack called New Music Tuesday, and which I love

because as a former record store employee, Tuesdays was, Tuesdays were

the day.

super, Tuesday

that.

was the day that we all looked forward to because that's

when the new releases would come out.

And we'd have them, we'd have dates on our chalk, our dry erase board,

and people would come in asking

erase.

and, you know, asking, has it come out yet?

Nope.

Next week.

back, you

If this gets pushed back, then, boy, let me tell you something.

Uh, if it gets pushed back, forget about, I'll never forget when

that Wonderland K's Wonderland.

The date kept getting pushed back and pushed back and pushed back.

Then finally it was just, it's not coming out.

Well, not,

Yeah.

the US version.

So it's just not coming out.

So I said all that to say, um, you have the Substack new music Tuesday.

Um, you're listening to new things Constant.

Well, that's a question.

Are you, because you're so heavily in it, do you, do you just some,

sometimes I just, like, I don't want to hear anything else.

I'm in album mode right now.

Or are you constantly listening to new stuff and if so, what are you enjoying

right now and what should we look out for?

That's a, that's a really good question.

Like the, the, the posing it as, do I listen to the stuff that I write

about or am I just No, seriously,

Yeah.

a valid question because there are times when I don't, there are times,

like, I wanna say for the past month and a half, two months, I haven't heard anything

I posted about, I've just been using it, using the space as a way to earmark

things for me to go back and check out.

Um, like, so basically the, the, the theory, not theory, the philosophy of

the new Music Tuesday newsletter is, um, I'm not gonna write about something

that I don't personally want to hear.

I'm, I'm

Love that.

light or give light to anything for the sake of like, trashing it or,

or saying like, oh, look at this one.

Like, oh, I

Yeah.

Look at this video.

His video sucks.

I, there's enough of that.

This is a, a space where I'm writing about things that I either

enjoy or think I will enjoy.

And if you happen to enjoy them, that's great too.

I'm also writing about.

Other musicians are artists who I know that I know who are working class

musicians and might not be able to get the same level of that they used to.

So it's just, it's just a way for me to like spread them.

Like, you know, I got so many homies that the blogs went away,

like we are like, well what do we

Yeah.

I guess we just run the Instagram and it goes back to

that same question you asked me.

Um, that's a long way to answer.

I'm sorry.

But, so what I'm, the last album that I remember running back three or four times

uh, this cat, like from his, he was in a group called Pacific Division Pac Div.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

put out a album called, um.

I, I forget what it's called.

It's called like songs.

Songs made, I don't know what the album's called.

It's got a green cover and like, a little like hand drawn figure.

like produ.

He also like, also produced the song, um, sing about me for Kendrick Lamar.

Mm-hmm.

know, he's got like a, he's, he's got like a heavy resume

and he raps really fucking well.

So the album is dope.

It's got two cuts of FTE on it, blues on there.

Michael Rocks from, what's his group's name?

The Cool Kids is on there.

It's a really dope album, but it's, it's, it's classic boom bap.

It's just, it's hip hop, you know what I'm saying?

Nice.

another album that I listened to and I enjoy but I haven't

returned to is Kalani's album.

Oh, I have to check that.

I have to check it out.

I haven't listened yet.

I heard it's good.

yeah, the, the prop, if I'm gonna say there's a problem

with it, it's not a problem.

But for me personally, I enjoy shorter albums, uh, with a

Okay.

concentration of songs.

hold on, Don.

Will, are you telling me that you don't like albums that

have like 39 cuts on them?

Is that what you're saying?

Oh,

don't like, you,

You know, if,

you don't like.

have, if you dropping, if you drop a three disc

Yes.

not listen to it.

I'm gonna ask you a question just you have, uh, in your spirit.

If y'all were DJing a party tonight

Hmm.

and you had to drop a song that's in your spirit, you like, I

just want people to shake they ass to this, what's that song for you tonight?

Don?

Will, what's the song that you was just like, this one's going in?

'cause I want people to dance to it.

At the party I'm gonna be at tonight, I think the one that

I would drop Act Up City Girls.

Act Up

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

a classic give up about an like, I love, I love that song.

love that song so much.

Shout out to Lil.

yeah, it, it always gets the response that I wanted to get.

Here we go.

those like, you know, standards and then, you know, this fun stuff

you could do to mix out of it, but.

I love that.

Sir Daniel?

So I was, I was trying to, you know, be, you know, real grand about this.

But then I said, you know what I, the song that I'm going to drop, if I were

to be spinning tonight, I would drop "It Takes Two" by Rob Base and DJ EZ Rock.

Just, I, I just gotta do it.

I have to do it.

I have to do it.

at the time of this recording, you know, we just, we just got the news that

Rob Base passed away at the age of 59.

Which is, wow.

It is so crazy that he passed away so young, such a young age.

And dj and his dj, DJ EZ Rock, passed away back in 2014, and

he was super young as well.

So that, for me, that's what I would do.

I would definitely pay Amish to him because he is such an important part

Yes.

our lives

Yep.

and we actually, we've taken it for granted.

We have taken that, we've taken his music for granted because it's just

because it's always been there.

And I think we do that a lot to our, um, to our heritage artists.

Especially when we're talking about hip hop.

We were talking earlier about us about aging in hip hop.

And being respectful of that.

And I think we do take a, we take a, um, take for granted people who are

over a certain age and who maybe have not dropped a record for 30 years, but

it does not negate the importance that they have to the culture because what

they've done has actually carved a lane for everybody that's popping right now.

And for everybody to continue to be eating off of hip hop.

You know, I don't know if it's still a full course meal or a carcass

right now, but people are still eating off of rap music today.

And I guess the question I wanna pose to you all then is,

well, it's not even a question.

It, thinking about Rob Base makes me rethink the term, one hit wonder.

Hmm.

I think that we do a disservice when we call people one hit

wonders simply because that one hit.

Literally can become part of the fabric of your life.

Yeah.

And again, it spins off.

That's the thing about this, this culture, it, it creates a vibration and

a ripple effect throughout the culture that you don't even realize is happening.

But do you know how many like clubs and dance recitals we've been to

that people, people have jammed out to, to, to, it takes two.

How many DJs have done routines off of it takes two.

So I think we, again, I'm rethinking the term one hit wonder and using it,

possibly removing it from, from my vernacular when it comes to talking

about artists, especially when it comes to talking about our artists, because

I don't wanna, uh, I don't want to, to demean them anymore in that way.

I don't it.

I I've, it's funny you say that.

I haven't, I don't use that and I'm, I'm just realizing in this moment that

I don't use it like, it's as like a artist when, you know, when you're

trying to make, you know what I'm saying?

Like music that has man appeal or make music that people would enjoy.

it just, it's, it's only a negative connotation.

There's nothing positive about it.

You know what I'm saying?

And like the other thing is that to get a hit, get a hit, whatever

the, whatever your definition of a hit is, is it's hard for one.

You know what I'm saying?

So you got one round of applause.

If you make more than one, then lightning, just lightning is

striking inside the bottle.

But you know what I'm saying?

the, the other thing is that there's.

There's this thing about work I'm thinking and how, you know, to say one hit wonder

means that that artist worked in service of an industry and not a community.

Hmm.

to say he had one hit, he's a one hit wonder.

Yeah.

one-hit wonder for the label that that is making money off of him

for, for an industry that needs him to, to, to pay assistance and,

Right.

fuel other ventures.

But in terms of like his impact, it's, it's endless.

It's boundless.

You know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

also it, it has to be said that he said, fuck the Big Mac.

You know what I'm saying?

He loved Whoppers.

You know how impactful that is because McDonald's is king.

Mc, especially McDonald's was putting a lot of money in hip hop and for

him to say that directly for the competition, that took a lot of balls,

Fuck the big,

big Mac.

what, I feel like, I feel like I'm half joking,

i'm so with the both of you.

Like there is not a black gathering the world that it takes two or

joy and pain is not playing at,

Joy and

a ga, there isn't a gathering where these songs

aren't showing up in the DJ set.

And I'm gonna tell you, Those songs were bridge songs.

They

Yes.

that our parents loved, added some rap to them, and we loved it.

So my parents were dancing to those songs and they didn't

like rap, but they liked that.

Yeah.

And we don't get a lot of that these days where there are these

songs that directly call back to the previous generation and bring it forward.

So that legacy, we, yo we staying 10 toes down on that.

Those that, that, Rob Base and DJ EZ Rock made magic

Absolutely.

even if you go back and look at like, that video,

Yep.

the video for, um,

It takes two

it

or

Yeah.

That video is,

Bi.

was such like a, it is a time capsule.

Yeah.

that is like, he's as important to the culture as Rakim.

Yo.

Classic, classic.

And this has been a an amazingly rich classic conversation.

Don, will, we appreciate you, brother.

Thank you so much for taking the time to come and hang out with us, man.

Yo, thank and thank you for having me.

Like, I gotta say, I love conversations like this, conversations that

like go from place to place, well structured and also are just full

of like curiosity and whimsy.

That's my, that's my shit.

Man.

to y'all, man.

Thank

you.

We

you.

We love to hear that.

Please, before we go, please tell everyone where they can find Almanac

of Rap and how they can follow you.

All of the things, all of the socials.

Please let our audience know.

Almanac Rap is on Instagram under AORShow.

Um, I'm on Instagram under Donwill just all one word, no spaces.

And if you wanna hit me up, I have a one 800 number.

8 7 7 Donwill, that's 8 7 7 D-O-N-W-I-L-L.

Drop me a message, man.

I might pick up, I might say, what's up?

You never know.

I'm trying to, I'm just, I'm just doing

That's amazing.

I'm

getting weird.

Please, you should, you know what you should do?

You should do one of those.

Remember those commercials?

I don't know how old you are, Donwill, but Jay Ray, do you remember when, like

JJ Fad or um, 2 Live Crew, they would drop commercials and they, Dr. Dre them, they

would have their 800 number and you can call them, but it is gotta be eighties.

Love that man.

Please, y'all make sure that you connect with Donwill.

Thank y'all so much for joining us here on Queue Points.

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You can become a member.

It keeps the lights on and Queue Points land.

And you can listen to all of the archive episodes of Queue Points.

In addition to a bunch of other stuff on substack and you can shop

our store, do all of the things.

We appreciate y'all.

We love y'all.

We absolutely doing this.

Like I say, in every episode in this life, you have a choice.

You can either pick up the needle or you could let the record play.

I am DJ Sir Daniel.

My name is Jay Ray and that's our brother Donwill.

And this is Queue Points podcast, dropping the

needle on black music history.

We will see you on the next go round.

Peace y'all.

Peace y'all.