From Hank Ballard to The Fat Boys: How The Twist Connected Black Musical Generations

Transcript

From Hank Ballard to The Fat Boys: How the Twist Connected Black Generations

[00:00:00]

Intro Theme

Are you ready to shake a tail feather?

Sir Daniel: Greetings and welcome to another episode of Queue Points podcast. I'm DJ Sir Daniel,

Jay Ray: and my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my governments as Johnnie Ray Kornegay III. Iii. And um, sir Daniel, with today's topic, even though these dances came before we were born, we grew up knew. Knowing what these dances were, they were super important to black culture.

Sir Daniel: Well, before we do any of that, I got a question for you.

Jay Ray: Yes.

Sir Daniel: Jay ray, are you ready to bend over and shake a tail? Feather? That's what I wanted.

Jay Ray: I'm already ready to bend over and shake a, a

Sir Daniel: tail feather

Jay Ray: listen,

Sir Daniel: so no, we are [00:01:00] discussing.

Why Dance Belongs in Black Music History (Gen X as the bridge)

Sir Daniel: You know, as we delve into Black History Month, you know, people have great ways of selling black history, celebrating Black History Month, but we hear Queue Points podcast dropping the needle on black music history.

If we're talking about music. We can't not talk about dancing because dancing is an outward expression and reaction to the music that has been gifted to us by all of the, um, the ancestors that have come before us.

Jay Ray: Yep.

Sir Daniel: And we've, we've enjoyed talking about everything from the wop

Jay Ray: mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: To the wobble.

And so let's talk about these, these post civil rights era dances that really had our ba, our parents, Jay Ray. Their generation, the boomers had them in a choke hole because Jay Ray, we talking about dances like the watusi.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: The swim, the jerk, the fruit, the skate, the chicken, the pony. I mean, so [00:02:00] here's one thing that I think we as Gen Xers have the privilege and that makes us such a great generation that people would like to try to forget.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: We grew up watching. Reruns of television shows where we saw these dances in, not in, um, in real life and in, in real time, but we, we witnessed them and we saw, and we would have conversations with our parents and that's when we had those, you don't know nothing about that. You know nothing about that dance.

That's how we had those conversations. Yes. And develop a lot of our. Um, dances, especially hip hop dances. Let's take the kid and play kick step.

Jay Ray: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's

Sir Daniel: a direct descendant of the Charleston. Yeah. It literally is the Charleston. And so I love that about our generation, and that's what makes.

Talking about these dances very necessary and special for us here at Queue [00:03:00] Points.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

TV Reruns, Soul Train & Learning the Old Moves

Jay Ray: You know, it's interesting. I'm so glad you mentioned that. And I think we're also a generation that benefited from. Being able to see our folks do these, uh, do variations of dances on tv. Thinking of the Soul Train line, right?

Yes. The soul train line and being able to see reruns of Soul Train, right? Uh, and, and you know what was a classic TV show that had a ton of dancing in it is what's happening. Rerunning them. We're always doing a dance because, you know, that was part of his whole thing, right? But. We truly were, we are a bridge generation where we got the opportunity to she to see, uh, uh, white folks dancing in shows like Gidget.

And then we got to watch what's happening and then we got to watch Soul Train right on. You know what I'm saying?

Sir Daniel: Yes.

Jay Ray: And, and, and that's how we knew who Sally Field was. Y'all up here like talking about, oh, here's when I know JB we was watching Gidget as [00:04:00] kids.

Sir Daniel: Right? Y'all know her as Mrs. Doubt. Um, Mrs.

Doubtfire. We know her from GID and the Flying Nun.

Jay Ray: Right, exactly. So one of the. Things that we've, we've talked about consistently as we talk about these dances, in particular, the line dances, but these dances are different.

The Twist: The Song, the Dance, and Why It Was Everywhere

Jay Ray: All of the dances that you mentioned also had accompanying songs, and one of the dances that our parents did that had an accompanying song that was a monster international hit was the twist.

You could not escape the twist. And we'll get to this in a minute, but we have a very particular, as Gen Xers, a relationship with the Twist as well. But, um, the Twist was one of those dances where one, we knew the song.

Sir Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Jay Ray: And two, we knew that it was a dance that our parents did in the, uh, late fifties and early sixties.

So high level, sir Daniel. So in getting ready for this [00:05:00] show, um, I was like, okay, let me get back into the twist bag and see what's up with the twist, because. I don't know if this is true for you, but I only knew the Twist as a Chubby Checker song. Um, right. So here's the interesting history. Um, I knew this, but I didn't know this at the same time.

Hank Ballard vs. Chubby Checker: American Bandstand & Crossover Politics

Jay Ray: Um, the Twist is a remake. So The Twist is a remake of a song, uh, written by Hank Ballard. Hank Ballard originally released the song, the Twist. What's crazy, and y'all can go, y'all can YouTube this, the Chubby Checker version and the Hank Ballard version sound exactly the same, and there's a reason for that.

So anyway, Hank Ballard does the song. The song becomes a hit, but it is traveling as songs did. Not just in black spaces, also in white spaces, it's crossing over, right?

Sir Daniel: Mm. [00:06:00] Mm-hmm.

Jay Ray: So this is where it gets interesting. There's two, I don't know what's true in this history. It's probably a little bit in the, it's probably a little bit of both and.

American Bandstand is a huge show out of Philadelphia. Shout out to Dick Clark. We all still watch Watch Rocking New Year's Eve to this day. Dick Clark is legendary. Dick Clark and American Bandstand is interested in booking Hank Ballard for American Bandstand. It is one of two things happen. Either Hank Ballard is too risque.

For American Bandstand in his audience. Right. Which is a very white teenage audience. Mm-hmm. Or Hank Ballard is unavailable for the performance. Right?

Sir Daniel: Mm.

Jay Ray: So there's one of two things happen now, but what's interesting is Dick Clark is at [00:07:00] the center of getting. A newly christened gentleman named Chubby Checker, who sounds like Hank Ballard.

Sir Daniel: Hmm.

Jay Ray: To do his own version of the song who then can appear on American Bandstand '

Sir Daniel: cause

Jay Ray: he's

Sir Daniel: safe.

Jay Ray: He was a safe. Choice to do the Twist and it's the Chubby Checker version that takes this bubbling hit song by Hank Ballard and it's the Chubby checker version that goes straight to the top.

Sir Daniel: Hmm.

Jay Ray: Isn't that something?

Sir Daniel: You know it, and it makes a lot of sense. It, knowing what we know about that era and, and what we know about race records.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: And, um.

Why the Twist Felt “Safe”: Censorship, Sexuality & Respectability

Sir Daniel: The, the, um, whitening of a lot of these, a lot of these songs came out of the black [00:08:00] community, and so in order for, you know, the powers that be at that time, still were afraid of.

Of that black Yes. That black magic, um, taking over their, their precious white teenagers. Yeah. And turning, basically turning, they were scared their kids were gonna get turned out by the black magic. And of course, the black sex don't say

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Sir Daniel: You know,

Jay Ray: because

Sir Daniel: dad, sex is, def Sex is definitely part of it because chubby checker.

No, not for nothing. It was a safe looking, a safe looking negro at that time. Well, coughed,

Jay Ray: lighter skinned than, than Fowler. Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: Right. Um, and he, he was a bigger guy, so there wasn't, you know, probably he didn't, he didn't look threatening and a he looked nonsexual. 'cause he was ubic.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: Um, and so, UBIC

Jay Ray: good words, sir.

Daniel? Yes.

Sir Daniel: Look, when you, when you grew up ubic, you kind of know all the words used to, to [00:09:00] describe when I was Hu Husky, when somebody wants to say you fat or you husky. Right? So, and that, and that adds to you not being threatening.

Jay Ray: Yes.

Sir Daniel: And so Ch Tubby was perfect for that role and I could see why that song took off and was just, it was a safe choice for, for all you groovy kids out there watching American bands stand at the time and, and you know, it was.

It, it doesn't require a lot of coordination. Exactly. Which is probably why it became so popular. Yep. And crossed over for other folks to get involved in because it, it didn't require a whole lot of thinking and rhythm.

Jay Ray: No, that's what's so interesting. And I think the other thing that also made it safe, there was a way to sexualize the twist, but for the most part it was a thing that you can do and you didn't have to touch or be up.

Mm-hmm. On the other person. You could dance with somebody and twist. Now there's plenty of ways that I've seen people do that dance that. You know,

Sir Daniel: there's a lot of [00:10:00] lower waste.

Jay Ray: Yes.

Sir Daniel: A lot of lower waste movement that could be done. But for, for, especially for the, for the, um, for the television, um, ratings people mm-hmm.

And the people that kept a, a, a, you know, a a a kept monitoring. The, the sensors kept monitoring what was on television. All of that, all of that movement had to be strictly up here.

Jay Ray: Yes.

Sir Daniel: That's why they went and filmed even Elvis. They wouldn't even filmed Elvis because Elvis was doing a little too much gyrating down.

So it was a little too much sexual, you know, energy going out on their precious, precious teenagers and their eyes and their ears. So, Lord Jesus makes sense.

Jay Ray: But to that point, right? So. Chubby Checker has this song, which is about this d this, this song that is a dance. This song is about a dance. So there's a dance and a song that coincide.

He, uh, uh, becomes a, a star. He does, let's Twist Again, which becomes a big hit [00:11:00] in, in, in Europe, uh, specifically the uk and.

Gen X Twist Connection: The Fat Boys Revival & 80s Nostalgia

Jay Ray: One of the things that I truly consider to be one of the most unique things about our generation, sir Daniel, is we got a chance on TV during that 1980s to see Chubby Checker on a regular basis.

Yeah, this man had and had a hit. In in years. But he was a regular fixture. We know what he looked like as an older version of himself. Mm-hmm. And we're saying older, but realistically, chubby Checker was in his thir, like in his like forties probably a teen, yeah. Oh, in his forties when at the time we saw him, we saw him.

Sir Daniel: He was probably, yeah.

Jay Ray: Yeah. So he wasn't that old. Um, but we got a chance to see him and. Hip hop comes a calling and all of a sudden Chubby Checker is in our lives in a very real musical way.

Sir Daniel: Yes. He comes along and he, chubby Checker is introduced to a whole new generation [00:12:00] via the Fat Boys.

Jay Ray: Yep.

Sir Daniel: And the, and the fat boys have become this hip hop sensation.

Mm-hmm. For all the reasons that they became a hip hop sensation. We don't have to go over that, but they, part of what they were, they realized and what they were understanding early is the power of nostalgia and the power of crossover.

Jay Ray: Yes.

Sir Daniel: And so, um, you know, shout out to their management, whoever came up with the idea of marrying.

This, um, foundation record with their new, um, techniques of beatboxing and rapping. Mm-hmm. It made for, uh, it really took the fat boys over the top.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: Um, Bre breathe New Life into Chubby Checker's career. Clearly, because the eighties were really big. The fifties was really big in the eighties. Do you remember that?

Yes. There was a lot of fifties. Oh, absolutely. Fifties references in the eighties for whatever reason. Um, but yeah, so shout out to, [00:13:00] to the Fat Boys and Chubby Checker and you know, him being an unlikely musical hero when it comes to the, to this post Jim Crow. Mm-hmm.

Dances as Black Freedom: Boogaloo, Monkey & Post–Civil Rights Joy

Sir Daniel: Um, civil Rights era movement, because Jay Ray, all of these dances like the, um, what was another one?

The Boogaloo.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: And the monkey, which. It's crazy, but the monkey, you know, all of these dances were rooted in black expression.

Jay Ray: Yes.

Sir Daniel: Black freedom.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: Because all of these dances, of course, were a way of us escaping.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: Uh, en enjoying escapism and enjoying each other's company. When we had those moments to be free and to be ourselves and to, you know, just forget about what was happening.

On in the outside world at the time, and so the movements were very [00:14:00] free and a lot of arms flailing and mm-hmm. You know, picking up partners and throwing them in the air and catching them. There was a lot of a, you know. You had to really be agile and have a lot of strength and endurance to, to, to, to participate in these dances.

And the music, of course did nothing but add to it. So I think, um, we really, that's why it's so important for Queue Points to highlight these moments of why it was so in particular and so special for us to have these dances and then.

Dance on Film: Hairspray, Dirty Dancing & Who Gets Included

Sir Daniel: You know, one of the great, one of the movies, Jay Ray, now that I, it.

How important these, this movement was. Our movement as a people, and I'm talking about physical movement

Jay Ray: mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: Is truly highlighted in the Hairspray movie.

Jay Ray: Ooh. You went to Hairspray. I thought you was gonna go somewhere else, but go. [00:15:00] Okay. Yes. Okay.

Sir Daniel: Because hairspray is is when, when it boils down to, it is a movie about race.

Jay Ray: Yeah. It is

Sir Daniel: race records, race relations in Baltimore at the time, and, um. I can't remember the, the director's name. Um, John Waters. John Waters legend in his, as in his own way, being an outsider himself. Mm-hmm. But growing up in, in the midst of that moment, saw what was happening and, you know, decided to tell this story about how.

All of they, they've always wanted our flavor.

Jay Ray: Yes,

Sir Daniel: but did what did not want us included and did not want us included in the the televised version. Of the black experience.

Jay Ray: Yo, it is so interesting that you mention that, that you mentioned film, 'cause I wasn't gonna go here, but since you went there, I'm gonna go here.

Sir Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Jay Ray: One of [00:16:00] the, the films that I think really embodies all of these things that we're talking about, dirty dancing.

Sir Daniel: Same, same thing.

Jay Ray: Dirty dancing went off as a film. Now I, I probably, actually, I don't remember any problematic things in dirty dancing. There was even black folks dancing with them in dirty dancing, which was a problem for the people in the film.

Sir Daniel: Right. See Dirty Dancing, they made it more about class

Jay Ray: than race. It was definitely about class than race. Yeah. And, but you get to see all of these dances kind of happening in this moment. I think it was said in the 1960s and all of that. But that's a movie that comes up where these songs that, uh, we're talking about, some of them, uh, constantly appear.

But definitely folks should check out Hairspray. I agree. And I would also encourage folks to check out Dirty Dancing. Um, as, as a, uh, an, an eighties, uh, [00:17:00] experience, you'll have an experience with it

Sir Daniel: and learn and telling these stories that you know. Things really did happen. They, I think they made it about class because it really could have it, it probably could have been Patrick Swayze probably could have been black, but they were, they weren't gonna go, they

Jay Ray: weren't gonna do that with that movie.

Sir Daniel: They weren't gonna have, um, the peoples Jennifer Gray dancing with some black man.

Jay Ray: Right

Sir Daniel: with his pelvis all the way up in her crotch, you know, that wasn't about to happen. No. And 'cause we really would've had the time of our lives watching people's faces melt in that situation. But, um, yeah, the um.

From Soul Train to Disco: Nightlife, Style, and a New Golden Era

Sir Daniel: The, the telling, the retelling of these stories about the evolution of dance as it pertains to, to Black History post Jim Crow and moving into the civil rights, um, movement, you know, soul Train.

We were heavy in the, the black [00:18:00] power movement, you know, at people were dancing up and down with their afros, and then we moved into. Another golden era.

Jay Ray: Yes.

Sir Daniel: With music, but music accompanied with glamor, with, you know, we were feeling our oats, we, you know, we got a little,

Jay Ray: you know, we had a voting rights act.

We could vote honey.

Sir Daniel: Some of us were, were having, we're getting salary jobs now. Yes. And people were be becoming more educated, had a little more earning power. And then there was the, in the dis. Invention of the discotech.

Jay Ray: Absolutely.

Sir Daniel: And nightlife as it were. Yeah. And so what I do love, there's a lot of things to, to that we can't stand about social media and.

The Bus Stop Story: Local Dance Shows, Charlie Green & Community Line Dances

Sir Daniel: You know, the internet now, but what I do love about the internet is every now and then there will, I will come across a gem where we get these flashes of moments in [00:19:00] time that we just look at in awe and wonder and just be like, damn, y'all had it good. Back then there was a, there's a clip that came up maybe about a year ago of this televised, um.

Dance show.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: Ibel. Did it take place in Detroit? It took place in Detroit, right?

Jay Ray: I think it's Detroit. It might be LA though. 'cause there's a lot of LA references, but either Detroit or la. Yes. One of those.

Sir Daniel: Okay. Mm-hmm. So. Clearly a one, uh, either a very black city

Jay Ray: Yes.

Sir Daniel: Where, um, line dancing is a thing.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: And so in the tradition of American Bandstand and Soul Train, a lot of these different, um, like local television stations would record go to these clubs

Jay Ray: Yep.

Sir Daniel: And record the dancing. And local DJ would get, you know, local stardom. Having these, there's a partnership where the nightclubs get people to come in because [00:20:00] they've seen it on television and people are having fun and learning the latest dances.

Well, anyway, there's this gentleman, I cannot think of his name right now, but he's leading. A large group of black people, and when I tell you we look fly as hell,

Jay Ray: baby dress to the nines.

Sir Daniel: We, we went to the club in suits. The hair is done, the gold chains, the afros are, are well picked out. The ladies' hairs are, are feathered to perfection.

And he's leading this group of black people in what we know as the bus stop.

Jay Ray: Yes.

Sir Daniel: And Jay Ray, what I, what came to me was like. Oh, this is like an early demonstration of. Who the mc was. Yep. Before hip hop really became a thing because this man was all y'all hot. Ah, one more time. Clap your hands now. Disco time, the people [00:21:00] new choice and

Jay Ray: all

Sir Daniel: of that.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Sir Daniel: Um,

Jay Ray: do it any way you wanna do it.

Sir Daniel: Do it any way you wanna do it. And so that just, that's part of the reason, that's one of the things that sparked this. This, um, voyage that we're going on as far as dance, um, and how, and with regards and with respect to the black community and black History Month.

But the bus stop, Jay Ray was one of those dances. Mm-hmm. It brought us together. Um, and there was a, there was no song related to the bus. Well,

Jay Ray: at first there wasn't at first, you're right. Song

Sir Daniel: did come along. You're

Jay Ray: right. A song came later. So. That's in, that's a interesting thing about the bus stops. So, um, from, apparently from history, I don't know how true this is because, you know, this history be murky y'all, when we looking up some of this stuff, 'cause a lot of this travels verbally, right?

Sir Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Jay Ray: Um, the bus stop is closely [00:22:00] affiliated with coming out of Los Angeles and kind of migrating east well by the time it gets east. Um. The Fatback Band creates a song that pairs with the dance that already exists, and the song is called The Bus Stop, um, which has been sampled a lot. Um, most recent sample that I fell in love with, um.

Chaka Khan, uh, sample on the last Chaka Khan Project. Hello, happiness. Mm. Um, there is a sample, uh, from the bus stop, uh, as a song on there. It's crazy funky and cra and great song, but yeah. But that song, um, pairs well with the dance, the bus stop, which to your point, sir Daniel, like we were doing in, um, in our spaces, and once again.

This dance providing an a way for black folks to [00:23:00] just commune together and be together. Um, and finding ways to do that by creating dances that we could, we could do as a group. You know what I mean? It's all about the spiritual aspect. So when I was watching that video, when you sent that video to me of that brother leading that group, I was like, yes, this is what we do.

Sir Daniel: So apparently he's the, it is called the Charlie Green Bus Stop.

Jay Ray: Okay.

Sir Daniel: Line dance. And, um, yeah, so there's a, a, apparently there's an artist that is sampling that video and is a, you know, how people like to make remixes. So I'm gonna look into that and see, it's called the bus stop, please. But yeah, it's called the Charlie Green.

Bus stop,

Jay Ray: man. Oh man, I love that so much.

Try the Dances + Ask Your Elders (and yes, we’re that old)

Jay Ray: Like, uh, so what I would encourage folks to do is, um. Play around in that history a little [00:24:00] bit and watch movies, try some of these dances. Uh, 'cause I'll tell you one thing, the twist gonna open you up because you really are gonna be moving that lower half and that upper half and doing a thing.

And, um, but just try it and get connected to the history and also ask folks who may know now, okay, for you, Jen. Z or Gen Alpha. Your parents ain't going to be old enough to know what the bus stop is. They going to be mad at you if you ask them. But your great grandparents might know what the bus stop is.

Sir Daniel: Exactly.

Jay Ray: So ask them, don't ask your grandparents 'cause they our age. They ain't gonna know either, but your great grandparents will know.

Sir Daniel: Wait a minute, we old enough to be grandparents?

Jay Ray: We are old Sir Daniel. We are old enough to be grandparents,

Sir Daniel: I guess if you want to claim that. Sure, sure.

Why It Matters + Support the Show (Membership, Subscribe, Store)

Sir Daniel: We're old enough to be grandparents, but I as always, this has been fun.

Yes. You [00:25:00] know, um, and it, uh, important. I think that's the main thing. It's fun, but it's also important that we share this information. And share why it's important, why these dances came about, what inspired them. There was a whole movement,

Jay Ray: yeah.

Sir Daniel: Of civil rights and liberation going on in this country and black America.

In true black American form celebrated through through movement.

Jay Ray: Yes.

Sir Daniel: We got all these great records and then we got dances to go along with them.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: And we thank you for taking time to fit, learn about this, and we hope that this opens you up to learning more and documenting more. Document the dances that you all are doing now, so that further on down the line, your children's children could say, oh.

This is what y'all they were doing and this is why and what it came out of.

Jay Ray: Absolutely. Thank y'all so much. If [00:26:00] you like, if you love, if you appreciate what you just heard and what we are doing here at Queue Points, visit our website@queuepoints.com and become a member. It is through our membership. We are able to keep doing this amazing stuff that we do here on the show.

And we do that through membership. So you have the opportunity to listen to all of our live episodes. For those of you that don't know, we go live every Thursday or at least most Thursdays at 8:00 PM and all of the replays are available for you to check out. You have the opportunity to join us for special events that we do virtually and all types of other fun stuff.

So become a member by visiting our website, Queue Points dot com. Clicking become a member. Awesome. A free way to support the show. Share the show, friends, family, colleagues. If you like Queue Points, chances are they will like Queue Points as well, so make sure that they know about the show and you could just send it on over to them.

Make sure that you hit the subscribe button too. If you can hear us, if you could see us wherever you at. [00:27:00] Because we there, right? Um, check out all of our old episodes. We have so many of them that you can listen to, uh, about this type of cultural content as well as all types of other stuff. So definitely do that.

Visit our store@store.queuepoints.com as well as check us out on Substack where we have a lot of really dope content, uh, related to our show. We appreciate y'all. We love y.

Sir Daniel: We absolutely do.

Final Sign-Off: Pick Up the Needle or Let the Record Play

Sir Daniel: And like I always say, in this life, you have a choice. You can either pick up the needle or you could let the record play.

I am DJ Sir Daniel.

Jay Ray: My name is Jay Ray

Sir Daniel: and this is Queue Points podcast, dropping the needle on black music history. We will see you. On the next go round and I clap on time, clap two times. Stick your booty out.

Jay Ray: I would if I wasn't

Outro Theme

Sir Daniel: [00:28:00] sick.