Verzuz Recap: A Night of Real Hip Hop with Big Daddy Kane & KRS-One

Transcript

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[00:00:00]

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Intro Theme

[00:01:00]

Welcome to the Show

DJ Sir Daniel: Hello, hello, hello and welcome back to another episode of Queue Points. I am DJ Sir Daniel.

Jay Ray: And I am Johnnie Ray Kornegay III, mostly known by Jay Ray on this show.

DJ Sir Daniel: That's right. And welcome back to another episode of Queue Points, [00:01:30] your weekly safe space for meaningful chatter regarding Black music and the Black artists that we absolutely love around here.

Jay Ray, how are you doing this week, man?

Jay Ray: Brilliant. Um, we got good stuff happening. By the time y'all see this show, um, uh, over on CMP we got an interview with Kandi Burruss that it ... and Victor Jackson that's out, and it's super dope, and it's, uh, LGBTQ Spirit Day. And, uh, [00:02:00] they're cele- they're, they're helping us honor it, so it's really dope.

It's been a good week.

DJ Sir Daniel: That's what's up. Shout out to Kandi and to Victor. Yeah. Victor is doing the things. I see him all over- Vic-

Jay Ray: Victor is killing it right now.

DJ Sir Daniel: All over the place. And, you know, to know that he and Kandi work hand-in-hand a lot and have been friends for so long is really a testament to their friendship and, you know, his professionalism, so.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: Sh- shout out to you good folks. Well, let's get into- oh, [00:02:30] so, um, how was your weekend?

Weekend Recap: Block Party Adventures

Jay Ray: So my weekend was good. It was super busy. I had a bunch of stuff to do. But now I know that you had a gig. So tell us about this weekend's extravaganza, Sir Daniel.

DJ Sir Daniel: So it was the, the block party. There was a, there's an apartment, uh, uh, community here in Atlanta called The Skylark, shout out to the people at The Skylark, that, um, have a block [00:03:00] party to, for, for their community to meet with local vendors, uh, especially women who are vendors, um, uh, business owners, to come out and support them and to get to know your neighbors, and just a fun activity on a Saturday afternoon.

Jay Ray: Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: And so they invited, uh, members of the vi- um, the Wax Fundamentals family, which include Peppermint Gaddy and myself. So I got, we got to go out there and we got to spin [00:03:30] vinyl. Mm-hmm. But I'll tell you this, we had a, we had a special guest DJ.

Jay Ray: Who was the guest DJ?

DJ Sir Daniel: The guest DJ was Mother Nature. Because, because when I tell y'all this past Saturday may have been the windiest Saturday that Atlanta has had, um, since fall has begun in the past year.

I mean, it was crazy. It was so bananas. It got so bad, and I, I have a clip here. It got so bad that this is just one of the [00:04:00] times the wind was blowing, it was so fierce that even it blew the record off the turntable and off the needle, like in mid playing of a song. Like, there was no match for this wind.

And we had to like, we had to chase down our slip covers several times- ... because they just, they were just flung off the, um, turntables while we weren't using them. It was, it was adventurous. I, it was a lot of cardio. I didn't know I was gonna [00:04:30] have that much cardio that day running after everything in the street, but I had a great time.

The set was bar none. The set was dope, even though Mother Nature blew my records off a couple times. Um, there is some audio that I recorded, audio and video, and I'm chopping it, it up into pieces 'cause it's kinda long. But, uh, yeah, it was, it was a great experience. I love spinning vinyl. Um, I love the freedom of creating sets [00:05:00] that can go from, that can weave seamlessly in and out of genres.

Mm-hmm. And people are just enjoying themselves. Um, and yeah, they just enjoy themselves. So shout out to, to Peppermint Gaddy- Yes ... my Wax Fundamentals family. All the, I, my community is so dope. My community of friends came out-

Jay Ray: Nice ...

DJ Sir Daniel: to support. They, you know, they braved that, that windy weather and stood there and, you know, bopped along to the music.

Uh, shout out to JB's Records, he [00:05:30] was out there- Nice ... selling records. It was a, it was like my folks. Yes. All my peoples were there. And so it was a great, great time. And oh, and shout out to my friend, um, uh, she, I think she's listening, all the way in Seattle- Angel Tee.

Jay Ray: Hey, Angel.

DJ Sir Daniel: Angel, Angel and I, let me give y'all a little history.

Angel and I met working at Sears credit collections and-

Jay Ray: Whoa. That's giving Salt-N-Pepa, Herbie [00:06:00] Love Bug, Kid 'n Play tease.

DJ Sir Daniel: Listen, it really is. It, we met and we were still, she was, she came to co- to go to school here at Spelman. And I was at, I believe at, um, DeKalb College or somewhere. And we all met, along with some other friends, we all met working at Sears Credit in the call center in their collections department.

And she and I became fast friends. We just became like the... I, how, how would you describe this? We were [00:06:30] Tweedledee and Tweedledum. I like it. I mean, w- just two chuckleheads. Every time you turn around we were laughing at something. We were l- we were laughing and giggling at something, and it was just so... I had not seen her, I know, in at least 20 years.

Wow. Because she moved back home.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: Um, so shout out to you, Angel, to your, to your husband, your family. It was great seeing you this past weekend. I had an amazing time. And absolutely I'm coming [00:07:00] back to Seattle and we gotta hang out.

Jay Ray: I love

DJ Sir Daniel: that. So that w- that was my weekend. And then the bow,

Introducing the Verzuz: Big Daddy Kane vs KRS-One

DJ Sir Daniel: the real bow on my weekend was Sunday night for the Big Daddy Kane and KRS-One versus.

Wow Wow indeed. This one, I, I think it- people have been saying this and it sounds pejorative, but it's true. That was for real hip hop

Jay Ray: It was for real. It was for real hip hop. [00:07:30] Um, I have so many thoughts about this Verzuz. Um, but shout out to, and I'm so glad they continued to give love to, um, Swizz Beatz, um, for creating a platform that could do this.

Mm-hmm. And, um, I also wanna just give love to Kid Capri and to DJ Scratch for really... It was all hip hop won Sunday. And I know we've said that a lot about Verzuz, but so many of the [00:08:00] elements. You had three, at least three, no, you had, like, four of the elements really present. Mm-hmm. Graffiti wa- I mean, yeah, I guess you could consider the graphics possibly graffiti, maybe.

Mm. Um, but you definitely had some beatboxing that was showing up. You definitely had deejaying, you definitely had b-boying, and you definitely had MCing. So wow. The

DJ Sir Daniel: elements were represented.

Jay Ray: The elements

DJ Sir Daniel: were

Jay Ray: represented.

DJ Sir Daniel: Absolutely. Absolutely. It, um, yes, to your [00:08:30] point, totally represented. We're talking about...

Discussing the Sonic Matchup

DJ Sir Daniel: Okay, so in full disclosure- Mm-hmm ... because I know y'all like to find tweets and stuff.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: When it was originally announced, and we could pr- we could bring it up too, my tweet. Mm-hmm. When it was originally announced that it was KRS-One versus Big Daddy Kane, I had some reservations about the matchup- Yeah

sonically.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: Like, because when I think about, uh, KRS-One- Mm-hmm ... and Boogie Down Productions, I think about [00:09:00] strict- like strictly a lot of boom bap. Boom bap, absolutely. A lot of, um, conscious- Mm-hmm ... records that they were conscious, but they were dope- Right, right, right ... so they were ringing off in the clubs and ringing off on the radio.

Right. And a lot of them became street anthems. So yes, they're d- they're definitely hip hop anthems.

Jay Ray: Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: The, the, the deviation for me came with Big Daddy Kane- Mm-hmm ... who also has his share of boom bap- [00:09:30] Yes ... has his share of, you know, street records- Yep ... where he's real- he's, he's talking greasy. Mm-hmm. You know, and being, you know, the pimp.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: But then there was this, they kinda, they're going on the same road, but then they kinda split off. They do. Because Big Daddy Kane has a lot of records for the ladies.

Jay Ray: A lot of records for the ladies, and he leans into that.

DJ Sir Daniel: And he leans into that, 'cause o- not for nothing, Big Daddy Kane is a sex symbol.

Jay Ray: Absolutely.

DJ Sir Daniel: There's like a ha- there's like a handful of hip hop [00:10:00] sex symbols. Mm-hmm. And Big Daddy Kane is definitely on the top list of those sex sy- those sex symbols in hip hop.

Jay Ray: Yep.

DJ Sir Daniel: So that's where I was like, "Hmm, is this gonna work?" Yeah. You know, when it's... Like, when KRS-One is, might start singing The P Is Still Free, but the girls-

'cause the girls are not ready. Mm-hmm. And then over here we got Big Daddy Kane doing I Get The Job Done. Right. So I was like, "Is this gonna, you know, is it gonna work?" But they made it work. They did. They made it work, and I think a lot of [00:10:30] that was due to the e- an element of hip hop that is missing nowadays, is that off-the-dome spitting.

Jay Ray: Absolutely.

The Art of Freestyling Off the Dome

DJ Sir Daniel: And KRS-One, bar none, kids, listen up. KRS-One is abso- is known, is notorious for going off the head and really taking it to people in the crowd. Mm-hmm. And making, emceeing and making it a part of a interactive experience.

Jay Ray: [00:11:00] Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: That was part, that was part of hip hop back in the day, was making it interactive.

Shocking people with rhyming about what they had on-

Jay Ray: Yes ...

DJ Sir Daniel: from the stage. Because they were like, "Oh, shoot, this not, this is not a song. This is something made up right there on the spot."

Jay Ray: Right.

DJ Sir Daniel: So I think that element of surprise-

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm ...

DJ Sir Daniel: definitely added to the show.

Jay Ray: Yeah. For me, um, l- like I said, I enjoyed, um...

I wasn't sure either. Like, I was definitely like, "Eh, I don't know." Here's what I [00:11:30] forgot. I forgot the way these mens' music made me feel at a particular time in my life. Yeah. Because we've, hip hop has, hip hop has evolved and changed so much over the years that sometimes you forget the feeling that people gave you.

And so when KRS-One opened his mouth from that [00:12:00] stage, I was just like, "Oh, yeah, I remember." So for years, KRS-One was like my favorite MC. Here's what was so dope- Mm ... about this versus Sir Daniel. You had- At least three of my favorite MCs that showed up on stage in this Verzuz. So you had KRS-One, you had Buckshot Shorty, and you had Masta Ace.

Favorite MCs and Nostalgic Highlights

Jay Ray: I, my 11-year-old [00:12:30] self passed out when Masta Ace and Craig G came on and did The Symphony. You c- I was standing in this room. I was standing up.

DJ Sir Daniel: Yeah.

Jay Ray: Like, I was like this, this.

DJ Sir Daniel: Yeah, yeah. There was a moment where I was just like, "Wait a minute." It, I, I- 'cause it f- for a minute I kinda forgot about that. I was like, and mid-show I was like, "Wait a minute.

Is Kane gonna bring out Masta Ace and [00:13:00] Craig G? Are they gonna do The Symphony? Are we gonna see Kool G Rap?" I did. Now, for you- I was hoping to see Kool

Jay Ray: G Rap. He wasn't there.

DJ Sir Daniel: I was- He was not there. That was the, that was a, a small disappointment was that- Yeah ... we did not see Kool G Rap. Yeah. But yeah, I had the same, I had those same moments, uh, those epiphanies when I was like, "Oh, shoot.

Is he gonna bring out..." When KRS-One brought out, when KRS-One started doing Black Cop, I'm not gonna tell you- Yeah. I'm not gonna tell you the amount of, of boggling I was [00:13:30] doing in here when Black Cop came on. And then he flipped it and brought out Mad Lion, which- Did

Jay Ray: you take it... Dude, bruh.

DJ Sir Daniel: Bruh.

Jay Ray: Bruh. I was just like, "Oh, no.

This is everything I love happening right now."

DJ Sir Daniel: Listen, I had on a Karl Kani vest- ... and some, some scuffy Tims and some extra long shorts on. You couldn't tell me I [00:14:00] wasn't, you know, I wasn't Black Copping and, and Shoot to Kill all over the place with my two gunshot fingers. Like, and you're absolutely right, and this is why we do this show.

We come from the perspective of talking about the emotional connections that we have to these artists- Yeah ... and to the music. And indeed, I was transported back in the day every, whenever they brought, dropped a record. It was just, it was amazing. I'll tell you one thing that really stood out to [00:14:30] me, um,

Fan Moments and Backstage Camaraderie

DJ Sir Daniel: during the Verzuz was when they would pan into the audience.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: And some of your faves are standing in the audience look- uh, being fans.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: Fans number one. Mm-hmm. They know, they're like, "I, I'm not a, I'm not, I'm not Jadakiss tonight. I'm not Fat Joe tonight. I'm not Busta Rhymes. I'm a fan. I'm standing here flat-footed looking up at the stage reliving those moments of Union Square [00:15:00] and Latin Quarters watching these men rip the stage."

And that was so dope to me. You could see Swizz Beatz was like a kid in a candy store. He was just like, he was geeked out- He was ...

Jay Ray: watching his

DJ Sir Daniel: favorites.

Jay Ray: He was. Like, and, and, and so if I were to pick my like favorite moments, right? So you have these men... So there was a moment towards the end of the verses where Scratch, who's amazing by the way.

Mm-hmm. Just [00:15:30] shout out to DJ Scratch. Yeah. He was doing his DJ bit, but this particular bit was the suck a DJ bit. Mm-hmm. And Big Daddy Kane stopped him- Okay ... and said, "Don't do that." 'Cause he was doing a suck a DJ bit, and he scratched in Kid Capri.

DJ Sir Daniel: Yeah.

Jay Ray: Yeah. And Kane, that moment of Black men kind of taking care of one another, like I felt like it was something like, "Eh, that's not what I want on this stage tonight.

Don't do that."

DJ Sir Daniel: Y- [00:16:00] yeah.

Jay Ray: So it was that moment- No, no ... that I, that I loved is I felt like they were doing that a lot where they would call, you know, Kr- uh, KRS-One and Big Daddy Kane, like they would come together on the stage, and they would take a moment- Mm-hmm ... and they would do a thing, and they would love on the people in the audience.

So that was one thing. The s- second, um, there was, uh, the other thing that I really, really loved about this, of course, the, the symphony moment was amazing. That was like, "Yes, give me, give me more of that, please." But, um, just [00:16:30] the pureness of it, like these men are over 50.

DJ Sir Daniel: Yes, indeed. Yes, indeed.

Jay Ray: And-

DJ Sir Daniel: And never missed a beat.

Jay Ray: No. And were in- First of all- ... their moment

DJ Sir Daniel: In amazing shape

Jay Ray: Yes

DJ Sir Daniel: With the best be- breath control than any of your current favorites right now. Let's just say it. Big Daddy [00:17:00] Kane got up there and was eating records over 120 beats per minute and never missed a beat, never missed a rhyme. He never ran out of breath.

He even got off the stage and, and stood in the audience, all of that. KRS-One, come on. KRS-One

is the same exact way. You can never skip a beat. He did- I mean, there was some, there was some records where I think KRS was like, he was really there for like the show show.

Jay Ray: Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: Because [00:17:30] he was, he would do, he would kind of rap the, the lyrics to records- Uh-huh ... but he would, he would like stop the beat and then he would go into something off the head.

Yes. Because he was really about, "Yo, I want y'all to know-

Jay Ray: Yeah ...

DJ Sir Daniel: what this is really about."

Jay Ray: Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: And I abso- to your point, I absolutely love the moments of them loving on each other. Mm-hmm. There was that one weird moment where you didn't know where Buckshot Shorty from Black Moon, because-

Jay Ray: Yeah, I

DJ Sir Daniel: didn't know where he was going

when you didn't know where he was going. 'Cause when he ran after [00:18:00] Big Daddy Kane, it was like, what, what you doing? Right. What, what's, what's going on here? Yeah. And Kane, and Kane being the OG that he was, was like, stood there flat-footed was like- Like,

Jay Ray: yeah. It felt like I was like- Yeah ... oh, this is like a battle stance.

Like, let me just see what this is gonna be. It's hip-hop.

DJ Sir Daniel: Right. But I, it definitely was not scripted because- Yeah ... everybody was kinda like-

Jay Ray: I don't know

DJ Sir Daniel: where this is

Jay Ray: going ... what?

DJ Sir Daniel: Right. And the same, and the same thing with Das EFX. Like, I think that somebody to, to Ka- to [00:18:30] KRS-One's point, Das EFX was, like, super happy to be there.

They

Jay Ray: were.

DJ Sir Daniel: Right.

Jay Ray: Can we, can we- Who are you? Can we shout them out? Can we shout out that we got to see Nice & Smooth, we got to see Das EFX. Das EFX. We got to see Hakeem from Channel Live, who I haven't seen in, like, forever.

DJ Sir Daniel: We got to see half of Scoob and Scrap.

Jay Ray: We got to see half of Scoob and Scrap.

DJ Sir Daniel: See, I think y'all miss- I think- I don't think people got...

Well, people in our age, age group understood the whole Scoob and Scrap [00:19:00] thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And what Kane, what Kane was trying. It didn't... It would've been better if Scoob was there- Yeah ... to complete, complete the threesome. Mm-hmm. So they could've done the pyramid thing- Yes ... all of the dance moves. And Kane could've did

Jay Ray: the jump and the b- and the

DJ Sir Daniel: fall

Jay Ray: back.

Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: All of that stuff. All of that stuff is just absolutely part of what made these acts amazing. We saw Mad Lion. Um, rest in peace to Miss Melody- Yeah ... you know, who was the matriarch of the Boogie Down Productions team. [00:19:30] Yeah. Rest in peace, Scott La Rock. Rest in peace- Who was- And rest in peace

Jay Ray: Biz Markie, man.

DJ Sir Daniel: Biz Markie. You know, e- each team, each crew had, has lost members over the years, so the... And, and again, and, uh, MC Shan was not present. Oh, yeah. However- Mm-hmm ... however, this is another point that I wanted to make. This is why this versus was important.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

The History of the Bridge Wars

DJ Sir Daniel: It was important to have it because of the history of Boogie Down Productions and the Juice Crew.

Jay Ray: [00:20:00] Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: Bo- Big Daddy Kane, not for nothing, is the, is the conduit- Mm-hmm ... of peace between Boogie Down Productions and- And the Juice Crew ... the Juice Crew.

Jay Ray: Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: The Juice Crew is infa- and Boogie Down Productions had a infamous- Infamous battle ... battle back in the day. Yep. Between KRS-One and MC Shan.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: Then it kind of spilled on over onto members of the rest of the crew, which we'll talk about in a little bit.

Jay Ray: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

HIV Awareness in Hip Hop: Revisiting 'Jimmy'

Jay Ray: So before we get to that, so there's a- another moment- that I [00:20:30] didn't mention that's really important. There was HIV awareness in this Verzus too. So Karas One- Yeah ... did Jimmy, which is one of the earliest- Yes ... HIV awareness records in hip-hop. It was on, uh, By All Means Necessary. Mm-hmm. And he dropped Jimmy, and the crowd was rhyming it.

So people, rappers have been talking about [00:21:00] HIV since the very beginning. This brother on that Verzus stage dropped his 1988 HIV awareness record, and the crowd was rapping it. '

DJ Sir Daniel: Cause remember you're never too old.

Jay Ray: Yes. Jimmy

DJ Sir Daniel: is raring to go.

Jay Ray: So listen- And it, and it

DJ Sir Daniel: snaps.

Jay Ray: Yeah, like there is, there is... It's funny, 'cause I listen to Jimmy now, and I'm like, "Okay, like the language is a little crazy," [00:21:30] but I'm gonna hold that it was written in 1988.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. That song in 2021 would sound different, but the fact that it exists and the fact that he did it from that stage in front of Black people, a crowd of Black folks today, is almost like the antithesis of what DaBaby did this past summer that I need to hold. 'Cause I wrote about this in that piece, [00:22:00] um, and I'll drop the link too in the chat so when we do th- so when folks watch this, they'll do it.

But that was another special moment that, um, I wanted to mention from the Verzus. Shout out. It was just a great time. I enjoyed this Verzus.

DJ Sir Daniel: It was. They definitely could've, he could've d- did he... Wait, I think, did I miss him doing, um, Super Ho? Because Super Ho, for all intents and purposes, was the precursor to, to Jimmy.

Jay Ray: Yeah, he did, um,

DJ Sir Daniel: yeah. And it was kind of, you know- Mm-hmm ... it, it, it talked about condom awareness and- Mm-hmm ... [00:22:30] safer sex practices, but yeah. But see, yes, you're absolutely right. Boogie Down Productions has always been conscious-

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm ...

DJ Sir Daniel: um, regarding everything. Um, kind of going back to the moment that we talked about how important this was, um, for Boogie Down Productions and- KRS, I mean, and Big Daddy Kane to have this versus and to show unity.

And because Kane kind of alluded in one of his [00:23:00] freestyle raps, he was like, "Look, you better be glad I stayed out of you and Ka- and MC Shan-" "... and Shan's shit." Right? Mm-hmm. Which alluded to the fact, hey, listen, if I had become a part of that whole diss war- ... it would've been a real problem.

Jay Ray: Right.

DJ Sir Daniel: Which is just, which is some hip hop, you know, and some hip hop stuff.

Yeah. Talking greasy-

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm ...

DJ Sir Daniel: on the side. But it, it got really serious. Mm-hmm, it did. It was very serious between Shan and KRS-One.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

'The Bridge Is Over': Reflecting on the Diss Record

DJ Sir Daniel: And which leads me to this [00:23:30] moment. When I heard, dun-dun, dun-dun, dun-dun, dun-dun. I'm not gonna lie, that record always gives me goosebumps.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: Whenever I hear that, that piano chord.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: That dun-dun, dun-dun, dun-dun, dun-dun. Mm-hmm. I, I immediately get a shiver up my spine.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: Because that, that's a cold, it's a simple beat-

Jay Ray: Yeah ...

DJ Sir Daniel: but that's a cold ass record. Agreed. It is a cold record. It's [00:24:00] also one of, it's also the probably one of the heaviest diss records in hip hop history.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm. So yeah, we'll have to make sure we drop the link, too, for that in the chat as well.

So yeah,

DJ Sir Daniel: yeah, yeah. The Bridge Is Over was b- KRS-One and Boogie Down Productions- Man ... kind of like piece de resistance to end the whole, um, Bridge Wars. Yeah. They called it the Bridge Wars between- Mm-hmm ... Boogie Down Productions and Queensbridge- Yeah ... and MC Shan. So to s- I say all of that [00:24:30] to s- to ask this.

Audience members, you tell me.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: It's been 30-plus years. Could KRS-One have amended the rhyme, "Roxanne Shante is only good for steady"-

Jay Ray: Mm ...

DJ Sir Daniel: bleeping?

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: Could he have done that? Should he have done that in 2021, where [00:25:00] everybody's, for all intents and purposes, everybody's cool with each other?

Jay Ray: Right.

DJ Sir Daniel: And everybody's having fun and enjoying this.

It almost was kinda like I, when I, when it was coming, when he came to that, to that bridge, and I was like, "Ooh, is he gonna say it?"

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm. "

DJ Sir Daniel: Is he gonna say it?" And he said it.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: And I was like, "Ooh. Hmm." Kinda, you know, kinda took me a, a back a little bit. Yeah. Your, your thoughts?[00:25:30]

Should KRS-One Have Changed the Lyric?

Jay Ray: This is hard. So I'ma tell you why this is hard. Um, my heart says he should change it. You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. My heart says he should change it because when something ... We talked about this actually on our last show when I was talking about, uh, Do Me. You know what I'm saying? Mm. Where there comes these moments where we have to [00:26:00] realize that something may have been cool, but we have to make amends.

So I, I, Johnnie, Jay Ray, would say I'd switch this. I'd say something different. Mm-hmm. You know what I'm saying? In 2021. Mm-hmm.

So yeah, that's where I land on it. What about you? Where do you land? Hmm. And I, and I'm gonna say something else too. It ain't h- it wouldn't be hip hop. I [00:26:30] mean, this is what hip hop is as well, but we also at 50 can change what hip hop is too. So I wanna say that as well.

DJ Sir Daniel: Yeah. I agree. So I'm, I'm s- I'm split on it as well.

Mm-hmm. Part of me was like, "Ooh, that it really sounds..." It, the optics and the sonically it sounds so harsh-

Jay Ray: Yeah ...

DJ Sir Daniel: and it's 2021. T- and, and her whole name is called out.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: And it, and [00:27:00] Shante will tell you that there was a moment in her life where she fell out of love with hip hop.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: And we'll talk about this even m- uh, more.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: When she fell out of love with hip hop because she was a punchline-

Jay Ray: Yeah ...

DJ Sir Daniel: to a lot of men, especially in the industry. And so, yeah, so that, that made it kinda hard. But at the same time, I was like, "Oh, they gonna bring my girl out." They, this is- And- ... this [00:27:30] is about to happen. This is about to happen. So they're, they're gonna bring my girl out, and she, the music is gonna stop, and she's gonna, like, completely go obliterate him- Mm-hmm

because that's what they did back in the day.

Jay Ray: Right.

DJ Sir Daniel: And so the music stop, they talked, and I was like, "Ah." You know, I was kinda like, "Ah, it's not gonna happen."

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Roxanne Shanté Takes the Stage

DJ Sir Daniel: But then Kane turned around and said, "Hold up."

Jay Ray: Right.

DJ Sir Daniel: "Let me bring my queen out here."

Jay Ray: Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: You woulda [00:28:00] thought I was... You, you ever see the f- the footage of the w- of the g- little girls screaming in the oh, in the '50s and '60s when The Beatles came on the stage? Yes. You would, you woulda thought I was one of those little girls the way I hopped out of my seat and screamed in this house.

I was like, "Oh, sh- ah." Yeah. And, and sure enough, she came, Roxanne Shante came down the stage. Yeah. And her and Big Daddy Kane on stage for- Oh ... to spit a bar. He, and [00:28:30] absolutely to his credit, he gave her props and said, "Listen. Nowadays it's the men-

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm ...

DJ Sir Daniel: are put on and become famous, and then per- bring out a woman-

Jay Ray: Yep

DJ Sir Daniel: and put her on and make her famous." Not the case for the Juice Crew.

Jay Ray: Right.

DJ Sir Daniel: This little girl- ... at 14 years old came and opened the door, and opened, and created the platform of the Juice Crew- Yep ... and brought [00:29:00] in Biz Markie- Mm ... Run and Big Daddy Kane- Mm-hmm ... MC Shan- Yeah ... Marley Marl, uh, Masta Ace, Craig G, and created the Juice Crew.

And all of them- He said it himself. He did. All of them consequently got their own deals after becoming affiliated and brought together by, because of Roxanne Shante, which I thought was, that probably was one of the- Yeah ... best moments of the night.

Jay Ray: Absolutely. I h- ooh, [00:29:30] having her... I, I, I re- I felt so happy for, for, for her, and I ha- felt happy for hip-hop in that moment.

Mm-hmm. Because it truly was. So it vindicated, so now going back to the question that you originally asked, um, that made it, it felt good. It just really- Yeah ... felt good. And, um, shout out to Big Daddy Kane for taking that moment, 'cause she could have easy- he could have easily let her leave the [00:30:00] stage. After she landed and Shante's voice cuts through all of the noise, which is- All of it

fascinating to me. It's that right pitch of you shut up when she's rapping.

DJ Sir Daniel: It's, it's definitely that, it's definitely the voice of a girl that carry in the projects. Uh, we all know that girl- ... [00:30:30] in the, in the projects, in the apartment complexes. Her voice carries.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: You know that girl. Her voice carries.

It's, it, it's not, it may not be the, it's not the heaviest.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: It's, it's, it's kinda pitchy, it's kinda high pitch, but at the same time it's, it's got that edge to it and it's serious. You're absolutely- Yeah ... right. Yeah, man. She's like. That's always, that's been part of her superpowers is that voice. Yeah.

And I, yes, that was definitely one of the best moments of the verses. So [00:31:00] hats off to Swizz and Tim for this one, 'cause that really, it made us old heads feel real good. Yeah. We, you know, I had a really good time watching it and just, you know, living out those moments of wanting to see people like that. He brought out DJ Red Alert.

Jay Ray: He, Red Alert was on stage.

DJ Sir Daniel: Performing the bridge with him. That was, yeah, that was dope. I wish, I wish Marley Marl could've been there, you know?

Jay Ray: Yeah. Marley, I was l- I was looking for Marley, and Marley wasn't there, um, as

DJ Sir Daniel: well. And rest in peace, rest in peace Mr. Magic. [00:31:30] Mr. Magic- Yeah ... was very-

Jay Ray: Yep ...

DJ Sir Daniel: very instrumental in that whole- Yep

Juice Crew-

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm ...

DJ Sir Daniel: you know, um, creation as well. So kids, l- if you don't know any of these names that we're saying, look 'em up. Look 'em up,

Jay Ray: man. They're very important people. Listen. Yeah. There's, um- Oh, I had a point, and it was around... I can't remember the point, though. We can move on. Okay. I'ma leave this in.

From Verzuz to 'Real Queens of Hip Hop' Documentary

DJ Sir Daniel: So this has been... So imagine going from Sunday to Monday night. This has [00:32:00] been like the, a, a week, a week for hip-hop.

Jay Ray: Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: Like, literally, because you and I kind of... Well, we talked about this off air, but we were both geeked because ABC-

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm ...

DJ Sir Daniel: had been pro- um, promoting this great documentary- Yep ... called The Real Queens of Hip Hop.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: And I was, the trailers had me super geeked because, one, they had our girl on there. Yeah. Rock singer Dante. And I was like, "You [00:32:30] can't have this without having her there."

Jay Ray: Right, right.

DJ Sir Daniel: But to, to, to take it to another level, we saw Em- we saw Sha Rock.

Jay Ray: Sha Rock is sitting down for an interview on national t- i- national TV.

DJ Sir Daniel: So shout out to, what are the producers' names again?

Jay Ray: Fatima- Mm-hmm. I'm pulling their names right now. Uh,

DJ Sir Daniel: wait. Um... The produ- Fatima Curry.

Jay Ray: Uh-huh.

DJ Sir Daniel: Shout out to Fatima Curry and Mallia Patrea-

Jay Ray: Yep ...

DJ Sir Daniel: [00:33:00] over, over at ABC-

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm ...

DJ Sir Daniel: for, for making that happen.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: For, you know, for putting this documentary regarding hip-hop, regarding, uh, uh, the, the nucleus, the, the DNA.

The DNA of hip-hop is not complete without the women.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: And as, listen, as a female rap fanatic, those who know me, this show is super important to have.

Jay Ray: Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: Um, not only just for [00:33:30] fans, but for them. Yep. It was super important. Sha Rock, can you imagine, Sha Rock was 17 years old when she and the Funky Four Plus One were on Saturday Night Live.

Jay Ray: Isn't that nuts? That's nuts.

DJ Sir Daniel: And, but then, but Sunos found out that she was pregnant.

Jay Ray: Right, and in

DJ Sir Daniel: pain. And terrified. And terrified. Terrified because she didn't, the crew, she was pregnant- Mm-hmm ... and the crew was like, "What are you doing?"

Jay Ray: Right. "

DJ Sir Daniel: We're about [00:34:00] to, we're about to blow up, and you're pregnant?" You know, that's, that's the fear I think a lot of people have when it comes to women, um, in music, is the fact that they can get pregnant.

And a lot of people feel like pregnancy, especially back then, was a handicap.

Jay Ray: Oh, God. Yeah. We have done... That, once again, illustrated the challenges of women, and we've talked about it a lot on this show. And, um, this documentary brought it up again. Like, it [00:34:30] brought it up again. Yeah. Um, yeah. Um, happy that this happened.

This needed to happen. This docu- this documentary needed to happen.

DJ Sir Daniel: It did. I think one of the, um, another dope moment, we were just talking about Roxanne Shanté.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: And if it feels like she got vindicated on two nights.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm, yep.

DJ Sir Daniel: She had that moment with Kane on Verzuz, and then the following night on, on this Queens of, Real Queens of Hip Hop.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm. [00:35:00]

DJ Sir Daniel: She was able to tell the story, like, Mama was literally sabotaged at the New Music Seminar on purpose. And we know who it was because they, they said- Yeah ... it's, it's, it's a matter of public record.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: But she did not repeat their names.

Jay Ray: Nope.

DJ Sir Daniel: Because, because they're, they're all respectful, they're all family- Yeah.

Yeah ... friends at this point. But literally was told, "Yeah, I'm sorry. You, we know that you rocked it. We know that you rocked everybody that came up here, you battled [00:35:30] everybody and you won, but we can't have you represent hip-hop right now." Mm-hmm. "You can't be, you can't be the, h- hold the title of world supremacy MC because you're a little girl."

Jay Ray: Because, dude- That's wild ... we just be wildin'. Patriarchy is the worst.

DJ Sir Daniel: Patriarchy is wild, man. That sh- It's, it's wild. Especially

Jay Ray: when

DJ Sir Daniel: you buying into it.

Jay Ray: When you buy into it like that [00:36:00] and know when the words come out of like, "Yeah, we know, but we can't have you be the one right now. It's too early."

DJ Sir Daniel: Ain't that crazy?

Jay Ray: We need a dude to be- That's crazy ... we need a dude. Imagine, okay, let's, let's play devil, uh, let's play advo- let's play, let's flip this, right?

DJ Sir Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Jay Ray: What might hip-hop have looked [00:36:30] like if Roxanne Shante was the hottest MC out in 1980, was that '85? '

DJ Sir Daniel: 85.

Jay Ray: What would hip-hop look like today if Roxanne Shante was allowed to be the hottest thing out?

That woulda changed a lot of the trajectory

DJ Sir Daniel: Who knows what contracts would've looked like? [00:37:00]

Jay Ray: Yep.

DJ Sir Daniel: Who knows what writers would've looked like? Yeah. What world tours would've looked like. You just never know.

Jay Ray: Who else would've been able to walk through the door? We just getting a Lil Nas X in 2021. If we were able to have a Roxanne Shante be the hottest thing out in 1985, who knows who else could've walked through the doors sooner?

Be- we just be like, man. But to your point, Sir [00:37:30] Daniel, I feel like having her be able to, one, tell her story. Having Sha Rock and her be able to tell that story-

DJ Sir Daniel: Yeah ...

Jay Ray: from their perspective, you can't, you can't beat that.

DJ Sir Daniel: You can't beat that. Um, it was very important to have women from that era-

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm

DJ Sir Daniel: especially as Sha Rock. Because with Sha Rock there was a, there was Pebbles and Pooh-

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm ...

DJ Sir Daniel: the Mercedes Ladies- Mm-hmm ... Lisa Lee, MC Debby B- uh, Debby D- Mm-hmm ... of the Us [00:38:00] Girls. Um, a lot of them really didn't, now shout out to the Us Girls, they appeared in Beat Street.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: You know, which was major for a female rap group to appear in a movie.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: But a lot of them didn't have that voice, you know. Mm-hmm. Sparky D and the Playgirls. Yep. This, there's a list that goes on. And, um, I think that might have been part of, I don't know, may- an hour didn't seem like it was enough for this documentary.

Jay Ray: Because- [00:38:30] That thing was moving at the speed of light.

That thing was moving so fast, and I know y'all, y'all only had a hour. And you know what? And, and, and, and, and I am going to, I'm gonna love on the, the, the, the production team for a second. Maria. Because when I think about it as we're ta- having this conversation, they had literally an hour to- Yeah ... get as much history about women in hip-hop as you can get, when the reality is you can do a, an [00:39:00] entire docuseries that's many parts.

You can do a 10-part docuseries about women in hip-hop covering the golden era and all of that with easily.

Sylvia Robinson and Overlooked Legends

DJ Sir Daniel: Absolutely. They could've done a whole one episode on Sylvia Robinson alone. Alone. Because her history is wild. Like- Mm-hmm ... becoming a p- a, a guitar player. Yep. And si- singing in a group [00:39:30] herself.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: To becoming a notorious gangster. Yeah. That, that started a record label. I mean, her history alone is worth at least an, an hour on its own. At least. But, you know, again, shout out to Mallia and Fatima- Mm-hmm ... for what you guys did, because that was a lot of work. Yes. Um, I do- I, so looking on social media after, during the show and afterwards, there wa- uh, it was a lot of [00:40:00] sentiment that was repeated regarding the glaring, gaping hole-

that Foxy Brown left. It was like, and we just talked about Foxy Brown last week. And it was like, well, h- hold up. Wait- Did I miss it? Did, did somebody-

Jay Ray: What are you looking? You looking behind the thing like, "I know they gonna talk about Foxy now, right?"

DJ Sir Daniel: Because, uh, and even in... Okay. Even the segment on Lil' Kim was [00:40:30] sparse.

Jay Ray: It w- it was way sparse.

DJ Sir Daniel: It was, it was, it was

Jay Ray: sparse- But the segment on Salt-N-Pepa was sparse too.

DJ Sir Daniel: Yeah. So there, so there were kind of, there were some omissions.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: Um, Foxy Brown being, being a big one, especially because the culture knows, hip hop culture knows that Lil' Kim and Foxy Brown's careers are forever intertwined.

Jay Ray: Absolutely. There is- You kinda

DJ Sir Daniel: can't

Jay Ray: talk about one without the other.

DJ Sir Daniel: Absolutely not. Definitely [00:41:00] their careers took, went different places.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: But the nexus, the or- the origins are definitely intertwined, and you cannot talk about one and not talk about the other. It just makes me wonder, you know, about why.

You know, the politics around that. Um, yeah, it's, it's kinda weird. Mm-hmm. Um, it was... And it w- it, it kind of made me wonder, okay, the special was nice.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: But I'm wondering, is, was this just an appetizer [00:41:30] created by ABC to get us to watch their new show, Queens- Queens ... featuring Eve- Eve ... Brandy- Brandy ... and Naturi- Yep

on ABC? Because it led right on into that. Yeah. Then the very next night the show premiered. So, you know, I'm wondering if it, this was definitely a vehicle- Yes ... for the show to be advertised. But I, it, yeah, Mallia and Fatima needed a whole week.

Jay Ray: They [00:42:00] needed a

DJ Sir Daniel: whole

Jay Ray: week.

DJ Sir Daniel: They- ABC should have given them a whole week to do, uh, to really flesh it out.

Yeah. Because I really think they did a great job with what they had. Mm-hmm. It could have even, it could have been even doper if they would've had more time to include J.J. Fad in there. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And what, and, and what J.J. Fad did for Ruthless Records- Yeah ... and, and, and Eazy-E because we probably would've never heard of them if they hadn't had made all that money for Ruthless Records.

So there's just so much that they could have talked [00:42:30] about, um-

Jay Ray: Wow ...

DJ Sir Daniel: in this documentary. Yeah.

Jay Ray: Yeah. Um, so I, one of the theories, 'cause I was swirling around The Foxy Brown not being present. Yeah. So here's where I landed on that, and, um, folks, if y'all know, chime in, um, in the chat. But I was like, "Oh, maybe they just couldn't get her image cleared."

That was the one thing. I was like, "This is probably comes down to, like, a business thing [00:43:00] where they just couldn't get her image cleared," and that's- Mm-hmm ... why she didn't appear. You know what I'm saying? Or that's why they couldn't really talk about her, 'cause they didn't... 'Cause you have to get all of that, like, all of these people pretty much have to sign off saying that you can talk about me.

Um- Mm ... and I would imagine that, I can imagine that you would have something like this. Foxy Brown, to your point, and Lil' Kim's careers are so pivotal to the trajectory of what hip hop [00:43:30] did, not just women, 'cause as we know, Foxy helped men, one of them is almost a billionaire, helped men launch their careers.

Two of them. Two of them. Two of them are billionaires. Right. Yeah. Foxy helped them launch into the stratosphere, right? You kinda can't talk about that era without talking about her. So the thing I came up with, I was like, "Oh, this is probably just they couldn't clear her image." Which is sad, if that's true.

Um- I like

DJ Sir Daniel: that theory.

Jay Ray: [00:44:00] Yeah. I'm- I like that theory ... I'm really thinking that's like it, 'cause I can't imagine they didn't reach out to her crew. It just wouldn't make sense. Yeah 'Cause they know, they know people would ha- be like, "Where's Foxy?"

DJ Sir Daniel: It was, it was just like, okay, yeah, we gonna, so we gonna talk about Kim, we're gonna talk about Foxx,

Jay Ray: and- And then we'll go to Trina and Eve and them.

We get it. We know how this- Yeah ... is gonna go. And then it was like,

DJ Sir Daniel: no. The steps. Right. The steps to it. So yeah. Um,

Intergenerational Conversation: Shanté, Lil Mama & Lakeyah

DJ Sir Daniel: good job ladies. Uh, I think [00:44:30] the best part, the absolute best part was the intergenerational chat- I loved that ... hoste- ho- hosted by Andrew Martinez. Mm-hmm Featuring the Godmother, Roxanne Shante.

Yep. Lil Mama.

Jay Ray: Uh-huh.

DJ Sir Daniel: And Lakeyah.

Jay Ray: Lakeyah, yep. Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: Who, who is a QC artist, a vi- a quality control artist.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: Um, I just saw her recently with, on, doing a freestyle on Funkmaster Flex's show, which is a great look for her. Mm-hmm. [00:45:00] So it, I think she's on her way. But I think that conversation is so important because there, there are these intergenerational, um, rifts-

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm

DJ Sir Daniel: uh, when we have these discussions about what rap music was and r- what it is today, what's selling, what's not.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: And I think it was so important that they had that conversation just womans, women to women. Mm-hmm. And hearing Lil Mama vocalize [00:45:30] how she was at tw- 13, 14 years old, how they wanted, they tried to sexualize her- Sexualize her

with the makeup. Mm-hmm. And she said, "Do you know what that does to a child when you, you start sexualizing them?" And I'm like, wow, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then on top of that, because you know of her infamous moment on the VMAs. Yeah.

Jay Ray: Yep.

DJ Sir Daniel: You know, she, she was literally torn [00:46:00] apart in social media. So yeah, that's a, that's a lot.

That's a, a lot of times people, you know, like Lil Mama end up being- The, um, the, the guinea pigs- Yes ... for other people of this is what not to do. Mm-hmm. This is what you can do. But you know, God bless her. I'm glad she was able to be a part of that conversation. And I really, I wonder what the outtakes look like.

Because I know Shanté really could, I'm sure [00:46:30] she was dropping gems, especially- Absolutely ... for like Lakeyah, for the new ones. Yeah. 'Cause, uh, you know, she had to.

Jay Ray: Absolutely. And you know what I loved about, so we of course grew up in the era where Shanté dissed everybody, right? So you know, when it's so funny, so when I see Roxanne Shanté you be like, "You don't know," like I be like, "Oh, is she gonna like go in on like all of these women sitting here?"

'Cause that's like- Mm-hmm ... in my head I'm like, "She just gonna start dissing everybody." Yeah. 'Cause that's what she is. [00:47:00] But what I loved that she did, and they left that in, was she bigged up Lakeyah. She was like, uh, she was talking about, what I love about your generation is what y'all, how y'all have kind of been moving within the industry and da, da, da.

And she talked about specifically, you know, doing something, it was something on l- no, she got monetized. And she was like, "I got monetized," and she was like, "I didn't know what it meant, but I asked somebody" and they like, "Oh, it's because, you know, you hit this." And she's like, "Oh, that's how they be [00:47:30] making that money."

Yep. That's why. So it was cool hearing her from her generation like big up like, "I see how y'all are moving now. It's making sense to me."

DJ Sir Daniel: And, you know, just like a, a bigger sister or mother, she's like, "Thank God y'all don't have to go what, go through- Yes ... what I went through." Mm-hmm. "Thank God y'all didn't get, you know, have these promoters try to rob you and not pay you."

Jay Ray: Yep. "

DJ Sir Daniel: That kind of stuff won't even fly no more." Mm-hmm. You know, because, because we went through it. So [00:48:00] thank God y'all don't have to go through that. Mm-hmm. And you're making money off of, off of this.

Jay Ray: Right.

DJ Sir Daniel: You know, the phones, and off of, you know, off of the, the computers and whatnot. Mm-hmm. So yeah, that was a very important moment to have.

And, um, yeah, to your point about Chaunte being... But she had to be that at that time. She did.

Jay Ray: She did.

DJ Sir Daniel: And so it's a wonderful thing to see that evolution-

Jay Ray: Yep ...

DJ Sir Daniel: because a lot of people are wondering, can other rappers evolve- Mm ... and [00:48:30] become friend- friendly, if not friends- Mm ... and change, you know? If Chan- look, if Chaunte can do it and be cool with MC Lyte, Yo-Yo, Queen Latifah- Pooh She-

and everybody else's- ... and them lines- That everybody else that you just-

Jay Ray: From Big Mama were brutal, bruh.

DJ Sir Daniel: They were brutal. Matter of fact, drop a link in so that they can hear, and make sure it's the Large Professor version.

Jay Ray: Oh, absolutely. Y'all gotta hear- Yeah, that- ... Big Mama, and listen, I will never forget the, the, the Jack LaLanne line [00:49:00] that was related to, uh- Ooh

I think it was- Yo-Yo ... Yo-Yo.

DJ Sir Daniel: Yo-Yo, yeah.

Jay Ray: I was like-

DJ Sir Daniel: Yeah ... "

Jay Ray: Yo, yo."

DJ Sir Daniel: The Jack... It was the pork chop, it was the pork chop line for me. I was like, "Whoa." And then, and they, and they're, they're cool to this day. I'm like, "Okay." Because- So that, that lets me know ...

Jay Ray: it's hip hop too, and I think the guys, and that's the other thing that we're learning.

So you know what, that's actually interesting. And, and, uh- Dissing then, well yeah, it got, it got [00:49:30] real serious. Like, 'cause you know, like there was these moments where it was a diss, but then it blurred into something real. Mm-hmm. But also there was an understanding that this is a battle and someone has to lose.

So I wanna throw everything at you. And at the moment where Big Mama was coming out, you have all of these women who are doing things that Roxanne Shante in her career hadn't been able to do. Yeah. Um, so yeah, of course you're gonna do a diss [00:50:00] record against those. Every th- every woman she dissed in that record at that moment was, like, doing stuff that she wasn't able to do in her-

DJ Sir Daniel: Commercially.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: Absolutely. Oh, the, the Monie Love line.

Jay Ray: Yeah. Oh. Nice. Ooh.

DJ Sir Daniel: Ooh. And I, and again- Big Mama ... she and Monie L- and, and she and Monie Love are, are cool, so cool to this day, but I'm just like, every now and then I, if I was Monie Love, I would look over at her and [00:50:30]

Jay Ray: be like, "You remember when you said that?" She'd be like, "Y'all, I do remember when I said it."

"I'd say it again."

DJ Sir Daniel: Those, yeah, those were good times though. Those were good times for hip hop.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: Absolutely. Speaking of good times for hip hop, uh, before we close out,

Happy 50th Birthday, Snoop Dogg

DJ Sir Daniel: we gotta give a shout-out to the, to the Doggfather himself. Snoop Dogg turned 50 this week.

Jay Ray: Man. Snoop- Can

DJ Sir Daniel: you believe it?

Jay Ray: I, I, you know what?

In 2021 I can, but I couldn't have in [00:51:00] 1993. Um, who knew that- Big, tall, lanky Snoop who- Mm-hmm ... was incredibly talented, but you just kinda didn't know what that career was going to do. You knew he was dope. Yeah. 'Cause he was dope, but I don't think we could have pegged that he would have the brilliant career that he's had.

He made that thing work for him. [00:51:30]

DJ Sir Daniel: Listen, he's iconic.

Jay Ray: Literally.

DJ Sir Daniel: Snoop Dogg is iconic. Snoop Dogg is interwoven into the fabric of American culture. Mm-hmm. Like, to your point, absolutely when we were in high school and, um, The Chronic and Doggystyle came out- Mm-hmm ... we ju- we just could never could have fathomed that he would have, that his career would have become something of, uh, mythological.

It's, it's mythological- Yeah ... in a sense.

Jay Ray: [00:52:00] Yep.

DJ Sir Daniel: Another person, Snoop Dogg is crazy when it comes to the off the head also. Oh,

Jay Ray: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's one of

DJ Sir Daniel: the- Like- He's

Jay Ray: so good. He's

DJ Sir Daniel: so versatile, and like, he's, he's gutter with it- Mm-hmm ... but he's also commercially friendly. Exactly. Like, who- did you ever think when we, that we would have seen the man that w- almost went to, to prison for murder-

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm

DJ Sir Daniel: would be hanging out with Martha Stewart?

Jay Ray: Martha Stewart. And, and, and really, and, and, and, uh, I'm not a weed [00:52:30] smoker, but Snoop I'm sure has had a lot to do with people accepting weed as kind of like a regular, um, something that you can just do, and it can become part of regular everyday life. Absolutely.

Because Snoop was truly the one that kind of ushered that in in this generation. Um- Yep ... and was unapologetic. The new Cheech and Chong. Yeah. He's, he was this... He was the, the our generation's Cheech and Chong. You know- Absolutely ... Cheech or Chong. [00:53:00]

DJ Sir Daniel: Absolutely. So yeah, so happy birthday to the, to the Dogg Father.

And, um, yeah, to that whole to- To that class of freshmen that we looked up to- Yeah ... who are now becoming elder statesmen and- And elder stateswomen ... it's just really good- Yeah ... elder stateswomen, it's really good to look at them and to see them l- looking good and- Yeah ... standing tall and still being really good at their craft.

Like Big Daddy Kane, [00:53:30] Big Daddy Kane is g- I know has to be at least, what, 53 by now?

Jay Ray: Oh, yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: And, and Chris, and KRS-One- Yeah ... is, it might be, uh, slightly older because- Yeah ... he's been in there for a minute.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: But still sharp as, you know, razor sharp when it comes to it.

Jay Ray: Man. Um, so many moments and, uh, I w- I will say, um, I think I've said this on this show, but

Spotlight: Masta Ace's Catalog

Jay Ray: I'm gonna do a plug for the catalog of Juice Crew legend Masta Ace, who [00:54:00] of all- Yeah

of the Juice Crew was kinda the most prolific. His catalog is deep and good. Like, he has so many records that I literally love. I love the Masta Ace Incorporated stuff, but he- Mm ... became known for, so in 2001 He really pivoted that career because he became, that was when the backpacker kinda thing became a thing.

Yeah. And so [00:54:30] he became an underground MC, but pioneered these, um, concept albums that were brilliant. So you have Disposable Arts, A Long Hot Summer. Play these records, y'all, and, and revisit the, the catalog of Masta Ace, who also is very big on health. So when we did our- Hmm ... health show, I think I mentioned him.

But he said, like, "Listen, when I hit around 40, I knew I couldn't [00:55:00] survive doing what I did without pivoting my health." Yeah. And so he pivoted his health real serious, and was like, "I need to cut out the drinking while I'm on doing shows." 'Cause he's also, I think, an educator in the New York school system too.

So he had to change some habits, man. So Masta Ace, shout out.

DJ Sir Daniel: Definitely Masta Ace. Um, s- when you brought up the INC, um, those albums, that really, he was one of the, one of the main East Coast guys that kind of- [00:55:30]

Jay Ray: Yep ...

DJ Sir Daniel: was able to marriage that West Coast sound.

Jay Ray: Yep.

DJ Sir Daniel: He sure was. And he, his flow. And the albums were solid.

Yep. And then the, the team that he, the team that he assembled. Yep. His wife, LeShé. LeShé. Uh, Paula, Paula Perry. Yep. And, uh, you know, and, uh, the MCs that he had riding with him. Like, those were some really dope pro- um, projects back in the day. You're absolutely right.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: Um, and we can't talk about, um, not talk about his appearance on the Crooklyn.

Jay Ray: Yep.

DJ Sir Daniel: Um- [00:56:00] Oh, my God. The Crooklyn

Jay Ray: Dodgers- ... song ... and all of that ...

DJ Sir Daniel: Crooklyn Dodgers. Yeah, man. So yeah. So shout out to, to Masta Ace. I saw you posted earlier this week, uh,

Celebrating Digable Planets' 'Blowout Comb'

DJ Sir Daniel: reminded me of the brilliance of Digable Planets' Blowout Comb.

Jay Ray: That record.

DJ Sir Daniel: Brilliant al- Bro. So, so- That record ...

Jay Ray: like people

DJ Sir Daniel: ta- when it came out, and I know we, we, we're, we're wrapping up soon, I promise y'all.

And we, we talked about everything from The Verses- Mm-hmm ... to the Women of [00:56:30] Hip Hop special. Now we're talking about Digable Planets. Mm. And that, and that was a shame that Lady Bug never was- That Lady Bug,

Jay Ray: I didn't see her picture, 'cause dear God, she's brilliant.

DJ Sir Daniel: Talking, talking about one of the, the most fascinating voices in hip hop.

Yep. But anyway, that album, Blowout Comb, first of all, was not wi- was not well received- Mm-hmm ... because of the popular success of, um, The Pendulum. Yeah. The Rebirth of Slick album. The Rebirth of

Jay Ray: Slick album, yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: And so which is [00:57:00] such a shame, because that album is so gorgeous production-wise. It's conceptual.

Mm-hmm. Black, they were talking about Black, um, Black, um, liberation- Yes ... on those records before it was really popular.

Jay Ray: Yep.

DJ Sir Daniel: You know? A- and so please you guys, check out Blowout Comb. Please. It turned what, 26?

Jay Ray: 20- Or 27 ... yeah, I believe 26, 'cause it's, wait a minute, 1994. How, uh, what is that?

DJ Sir Daniel: What, so it'll [00:57:30] be 27.

Jay Ray: 27.

DJ Sir Daniel: So maybe it's turning, yeah.

Jay Ray: Yes. Um, please y'all. Yeah, that-

DJ Sir Daniel: Gorgeous album ...

Jay Ray: yeah, I mean, they had crazy sample. Like, they sampled Shuggie Otis on that record, and nobody knew what Information, uh, Inspiration Information sounded like, 'cause they got discovered, rediscovered in the 2000s. Yeah. But they had a sample of it on their joint.

And just think- When 9th Wonder came out, I was like, "This is it." [00:58:00] Can you see that I'm 68 inches above sea level? 93 million miles above these devils. Play me in the winter. Play me in the summer. Play me in the order, any order I say.

DJ Sir Daniel: Yo, and shout out to my sister, DJ Jazzy Joyce. Jazzy. That, that was a moment for her to be- Jazzy Jo- on the real, Jazzy

Jay Ray: Joyce.

DJ Sir Daniel: Yes, that was a moment for her to be reintroduced to another generation that... And my sister is s- is really [00:58:30] underrated and does not get... And I call her my sister because she's a friend of mine.

Yeah.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: Like, I, we are legit, we're legit friends. Yes. And shout out to you, Jazzy Joyce, because she is, she is sorely, sorely underrated and unappreciated in this, um, in this game. Oh, we're gonna wrap up because I, it just dawned on me that you can't, you didn't, the special was not able to talk about the women behind the turntables in hip hop.

Jay Ray: That is a, a-

DJ Sir Daniel: And there are so many ... interesting omission. That's a- Yeah ...

Jay Ray: interesting [00:59:00] omission. So,

Closing Thoughts and Sign-Off

DJ Sir Daniel: so Fatima and Mallia, great job. Mm-hmm. Let's see if we can get, like, a part two and a part three and a part four- Yes. ... so all these people can be honored and respected for their craft and what they've given to the, to the culture.

Jay Ray: Yes. Oh, man, this is amazing. This is amazing.

DJ Sir Daniel: Yeah.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: Well, listen. Kids, what do I always say? In this life, you can either pick up the [00:59:30] needle or you can let the music play. The choice is yours. The, I am DJ Sir Daniel. And I

Jay Ray: am Jay Ray, y'all.

DJ Sir Daniel: Peace. Thank you for joining us for this dope ass episode of Que-