Luther Vandross, Aretha Franklin and the Magic Behind 'Jump to It'

Episode Transcript

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[00:00:00] Intro Theme

[00:00:16] Introduction and Hosts' Greetings

DJ Sir Daniel: Greetings and welcome to another episode of Queue Points podcast, the podcast, dropping the needle on black music history. I am DJ Sir Daniel.

Jay Ray: And my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my government as Johnnie Ray Kornegay III What's Happening People.

DJ Sir Daniel: And as I said, Jay Ray, this is the show, the podcast that is still dropping the needle on black music history. We're not being canceled anytime soon, but Jay Ray.

[00:00:42] Aretha Franklin's Milestone

DJ Sir Daniel: Did you know, you know what happened just recently? It was the anniversary of September 23rd, specifically 1967. The anniversary of Aretha Franklin's natural woman reached number eight on the pop charts and number two on the R and B charts.

Jay Ray: Here's what's crazy about that. One natural woman still sounds fresh in Like you could literally knock me over with a feather and be like, no, actually that song came out in 1967. Um, because that thing is just amazing. Of course, written by Carole King tapestry. Listen, if y'all ain't heard tapestry, that might need to be a whole other show.

Y'all need to go on over there and listen to Carole King's tapestry. Okay. But

DJ Sir Daniel: And I. I love that Carole King and Aretha Franklin were both, um, received their Kennedy honors at the same time. So that, and it makes sense. They, the two went hand in hand.

Jay Ray: Yeah. So that is an amazing feat. Um, and especially at that time, you know, black folks the pop charts, we were well into the segregation of the charts by then.

DJ Sir Daniel: Mm hmm.

Jay Ray: folks. So it was always a black artist goal to get to pop.

DJ Sir Daniel: Yes, absolutely. And you know what, Jay Ray, can you believe that this past August made six years? That Aretha Franklin has been, has left us six years since one of the most ornate funerals ever.

Jay Ray: it like three weeks? It was a very long.

DJ Sir Daniel: I believe so. Three weeks and at least five shoe changes because we were privy to her. to her feet, just, you know, crisscross applesauce at the ankles, you know, very ladylike, very demure.

And, um, that was, but it was a funeral fit for a queen. And she definitely was the queen of soul.

Jay Ray: Um, one of those things about being the queen of soul is there's always artists, who want to work with artists like that. Right.

DJ Sir Daniel: Hmm.

Jay Ray: one of those artists, of course, that absolutely loved his divas.

DJ Sir Daniel: Speak on it. We're going to talk about it.

[00:03:06] Luther Vandross and Aretha Franklin Collaboration

Jay Ray: was one Luther Vandross who is going to, um, the, the never too much documentary will be debuting, uh, in theaters on November 1st. I'm so happy to see this. I've heard a lot about it. know, we can't wait to talk more about this particular documentary, but what's so dope is. Luther and Aretha joined forces. No,

DJ Sir Daniel: taste great together, and this episode of Queue Points is definitely going to be about the moment when all the stars aligned and Luther Vandross and Aretha Franklin joined forces to create Aretha's 28th anniversary. Studio album jumped to it released on July 26th, 1982, but Jay Ray, it wasn't all peaches and cream.

Was it? For sure. Mm hmm. Yes. Mm hmm. Arista. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Jay Ray: kid.

[00:04:09] Aretha Franklin's Career Challenges

Jay Ray: Um, of all, Aretha Franklin for us as Gen Xers was just kind of, kind of always omnipresent as an artist. So there was never a point in time from when we were kids that we didn't hear the voice of Aretha Franklin. But what I did not realize was. Aretha had went through this kind of, I'll call it the wilderness period, where after Sparkle, and this is interesting timing because of course we're in the middle of the disco era, right, and Aretha Franklin is the queen of soul, right? Um, and between Sparkle And jump to it. There were five albums. Those albums from a pop perspective were not. Hits in fact, some of Aretha's critical challenges were of all of these records. Like it is routinely, you look at the reviews for this.

It's like two stars, three stars, right? Aretha was definitely in a rough patch of her career. And in 1980, she moved from Atlantic where she had been forever. Um, and actually went and released, you know, where she went, she went over to, um, Aretha. You know, she went on over to Arista to Clive Davis, you know, Clive Davis, love him a diva. And so she went from Atlantic where she had had all of her huge hits over to Arista. The first couple of records wasn't the thing, but I'm sure Clive was like with a cigarette in hand, like coming, like hanging out of his mouth, like, we got to get you in the studio with Luther.

DJ Sir Daniel: This kid, Luther, I hear a lot about this kid, Luther Vandross, you know, he's doing all the commercial jingles and he's, he's hot on the charts right now. I think he'd be real good for you. That's my very terrible Clive Davis, um, impersonation, but yes, you're absolutely correct.

Jay Ray: Mm hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: And, um, One thing, so as you were speaking, the one thing that I do recall is that Aretha was a reluctant disco queen.

You mentioned the disco era. She, they, they proposed so many records for her, so many records for her. Um, and she turned them down and they were huge hits for other people. And she turned them down because she was like, ah, that ain't me.

Jay Ray: Yeah. And you know, I think the other interesting thing, um, to that point is Aretha in the studio. So one of the things we, we, there's a lot of rumors about how challenging it was, even Aretha doing jump to it because now jump to it is like a boogie funk, early eighties, bop, right?

DJ Sir Daniel: Mm hmm.

Jay Ray: Timeless, you know what I'm saying?

From its whole thing. I, I would have heard the song and been like, baby, this is it. This right here is it. And it wasn't to your point. It was not peaches and cream to make jump to it happen.

[00:07:15] Luther Vandross' Early Career

Jay Ray: Um, but Luther, let me tell you something about Luther Vandross. Luther Vandross is going to get what he needs from the artists that he works with him and Marcus Miller co wrote Jump to It. quick, I do want to mention Sir Daniel as we get into, uh, talking about this a little bit. So here's who's on this record. Which is just a who's who. So you have Marcus Miller, Luther Vandross is of course singing backgrounds, doing keyboards, doing all the arrangements and production, da da da. George Duke is on this record. Of course, you got Paulette McWilliams is on here. The Four Tops, Levi's, Stubbs, and one Sissy

DJ Sir Daniel: Sissy Houston.

Jay Ray: of course up on the Aretha album.

DJ Sir Daniel: No doubt, no doubt. Because, well, you know, let's, let's talk about Luther, because Luther is the epitome of a go-getter

Jay Ray: Yeah. Ooh.

DJ Sir Daniel: in this era. Luther is in his era. Luther was the epitome of a go-getter from the very beginning. Luther, and you read about this in his biographies and whatnot, was. I think obsessed is the word that people like to use about his craft.

I mean, completely focused on singing and emulating what he heard on records and just, um, becoming just knew what he wanted to become. And so in order to become something, you have to be it. You have to do it. And Luther made his name as a background vocalist for the likes of Roberta Flack, Donnie Hathaway, Todd Rundgren, Judy Collins, Chaka Khan, Bette Midler, Diana Ross, David Bowie, Benny Kinks, Stevie Wonder, Donna Summer.

And if you notice, there was no genre that he was not going to sing in.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: Luther wanted to be a singer and also developed the knack for writing songs, not just songs, but kids, listen to this Luther wrote jingles now back then, uh, back, if you were a vocalist and a writer, You could, you could do session work and that, and that's how you build up your repertoire and you build relationships.

You do session work at all the different studios for every anybody, but then he also had the opportunity to write jingles for, I believe for NBC back in 1977. So the early eighties for check this out, Jay Ray Mountain Dew.

Jay Ray: Of

DJ Sir Daniel: Kentucky fried chicken. And, you know, we love a good back then a good KFC jingle. And of course, Burger King and Juicy Fruit.

So Luther is putting in work, putting in work, I think is an understatement for what he was doing. He was so driven that he took every and any opportunity to. A scene, which he loved doing

Jay Ray: Mm-Hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: to work, be in the studio working. There's some people that thrive on that and it's part of who they are. There are many artists that we hear are like that.

Diana Ross is the same way. Love being in the studio, love doing session work, love being on stage. So much so that Luther's talents now, mind you, this is the early eighties. So at this point in 1980, he joins change or he's a part of change. And he's singing, um, the glow of love, which is, I mean, you talk about a pre a predecessor record, just a, it's a taste of what's to come

Jay Ray: Ooh.

DJ Sir Daniel: because that, that song right there is so luscious.

It's so, it's that groove and that joy that he took. And gave to Aretha also and jumped to it.

[00:11:32] Luther Vandross' Impact and Legacy

DJ Sir Daniel: So, but before that, before we get too ahead of ourselves, Jay Ray, can we talk about never too much real quick? Never too much in 1981, his debut album. So imagine that whole decade you're putting in work, you're working with all these people.

And your first debut record comes out and it's never too much, Jay Ray. What is the grit that never too much has on us 43 year, 43 years later, Jay Ray.

Jay Ray: Never Too Much is a quintessential multi generation record. Because I am always flabbergasted when folks at all different ages begin singing that song together. in unison. That song is a timeless groove. The lyrics, we talk about lyrics a lot on this show, but the lyrics of never too much are so just like, no, I want to be, I want to be in this.

I want to experience this. And it's just timeless. Um, I do want to make a note too. I think what I think Luther learned a lot from that 70s period, because as we know, they re released the band uh,

DJ Sir Daniel: Mhm.

Jay Ray: that they had, for a long time, those were just unavailable. And I think Luther, uh, Took everything that he learned from that experience of being kind of leading this band right and Channeling it into what we ultimately got is never too much and I truly believe that can see Luther when he got the call of like I'm going to give Aretha a never too much, like I'm going to give whatever that should look like for Aretha.

DJ Sir Daniel: Mhm.

Jay Ray: to give her that. And the results of that was we got jumped to it, which is a timeless groove from Aretha Franklin.

DJ Sir Daniel: And gave her a hit record. Like we're talking about a six year difference between albums and this one charted. Um, what?

Jay Ray: this particular song, so the song jumped to

DJ Sir Daniel: Mhm.

Jay Ray: uh, went to number four on the pop charts, number 20, sorry, number 24 on the pop charts,

DJ Sir Daniel: Mhm.

Jay Ray: number one on the R and B charts, which were called the black charts back then.

DJ Sir Daniel: Of course,

Jay Ray: and she got her a dance, a dance hit out of it as well. And this particular album gave her, What was it, her, was her first gold record since Sparkle,

DJ Sir Daniel: see

Jay Ray: so in terms, so this was a big deal,

DJ Sir Daniel: a huge deal. Um, so Luther gained a friend in, in, in one of his, his divas,

Jay Ray: hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: you know, Aretha Grant gained a friend, but as Jay Ray mentioned earlier, it wasn't all peaches and cream in the studio, they bumped heads, there was fur coats flying, there was people leaving the studio yelling, there was yelling at each other and, you know, like only two Aries can, they bumped heads.

They bumped heads, but you know why they bumped heads? Because they both knew what they wanted. Luther is famously quoted as saying that, um, when Aretha comes in the studio, he says, if she comes in your studio, you need to be ready. Matter of fact, you have the tap. You better have the tape rolling.

Jay Ray: fingers got to be ready to

DJ Sir Daniel: Right.

Because a tape, any tape that she does is going to be magic. She's going to give you some type of magic. And, um, so. The two of them working together was bound to be magic, and they were probably just so impassioned, um, impassioned about what they were doing. And they were probably just, you know how it is when you're arguing the same thing, both of y'all are saying the same thing, but you're so impassioned and wrapped up in your passion.

I could just imagine, like, the cigarettes dangling, the, the, uh, cussing each other out. The, pfft. You know, the, the, the hand, the air snatching at each other and, well, you ain't had no number one in six years. Oh yeah. Well, who are you? I'm the queen. You know what I'm saying? I would have loved to have seen that.

Cause I'm sure it was all kinds of drama going on, but Jay Ray, you know what I'm I love about this album. So you mentioned who was on the album earlier. You mentioned sissy, you mentioned Fonzie Thornton. Jump to it is a background vocalist dream team. Like when I looked at the list of people that were collected to be on this, on this background, like Paulette McWilliams.

Like all of these people are such heavy, heavyweights. And I can only imagine like Luther, just gathering the team. Luther was literally captain America gathering the Avengers. Like, okay. Avengers. Come on, let's get this together. We about to, our sister Aretha needs a number one. I need

Jay Ray: lesson.

DJ Sir Daniel: everybody on deck right now because we're about to go up against Thanos.

And, um, and it's so funny. I say Thanos because Luther Vandross was like Thanos when it came to accumulating his divas.

Jay Ray: He loved him a diva.

DJ Sir Daniel: I think that's one of the things that he and I have in common. We love, we love ourselves, some divas, my own hip hop. His was definitely R& B, soul singers. But like, during a New York Times interview, Luther spoke of, during the, when Jump to It came out, he was talking to the New York Times about it. He was talking about a project that he was working on with Dionne Warwick.

But then he alluded to the next diva that he wanted to work with, and it was Diana Ross. And at that time, you know, people were taking digs at Diana for her vocals, but Diana, um, But Luther is famous for saying There is underneath that icing I know there's a serious cake. He was ready to dig in with Diana Ross And I He got the opportunity to do it.

Jay Ray: He

DJ Sir Daniel: He got, he got the opportunity to do it.

Jay Ray: So, you know, during that period of time, so we actually did, uh, had a conversation around Diana Ross in kind of the 1983 but Luther had the opportunity to, uh, do some work with Diana Ross. So this was on the Silk Electric, um, album. So interestingly enough about the Silk Electric album. You get all of, so Luther, like you said, he gathered his Avengers and, uh, sidebar, the silk electric album is also the album that includes muscles. If you go back and listen

DJ Sir Daniel: Yes.

Jay Ray: uh, our show, we talk a little bit about Michael Jackson and muscles anyway, sissy. Paulette, Tawatha, they're all with Luther on, uh, the Diana Ross record and yeah, so he got the opportunity in that same era to really go and sit and create for one Diana Ross.

DJ Sir Daniel: Is there a singer of today's crop? If Luther were alive today, is there a singer today that he would enjoy working with? Like, who do you think he would be obsessed with? Why you think I could tell you who off off the top of my head for me is Jasmine Sullivan. I think he would be obsessed with Jasmine Sullivan.

Jay Ray: think Jasmine of all of these, of all of the kind of contemporary crop, I feel like they would have a good time together. I

DJ Sir Daniel: Oh, totally.

Jay Ray: I feel like Jasmine would have Luther doing runs and doing all types of stuff. And Luther would have Jasmine smoothing out that vocal and playing in some other registers,

DJ Sir Daniel: he would be pulling in that, in her, on her jazz, um, abilities. He, I think he would really dig it out of her. I, Ooh, mm mm I think he would just also en enjoy working with her. Mm-Hmm.

Jay Ray: and, um, you know what, not for nothing, I think, actually, I think all of the girls, I think, uh, Coco Jones, I think he would get in the studio and definitely play around with Coco. So yeah, I think those three alone would be really interesting. And I would also love, in particular with her and Jasmine, also love to see the reverse of them kind of writing for and kind of producing a

DJ Sir Daniel: Mm-Hmm.

Jay Ray: feel like that would be such magic.

DJ Sir Daniel: That would be magical. Taking their, their new. They're young sensibilities and working with him with his classical training and all that legendary stuff. You're absolutely right.

[00:20:23] Anticipation for Luther Vandross Documentary

DJ Sir Daniel: Jay Ray, as we come to the end of this episode, what are you looking forward to the most? What would you like to learn from this Luther Vandross documentary that's coming out on November 1st in theaters?

Never too much.

Jay Ray: Luther, I wanted, would love for the documentary to just pull back the layers a bit. Luther was notoriously private, um, about his personal life. And like truly talking about like his, his drives and his passions in that way. So I would really just kind of like to get a glimpse of the man behind, The music and also just kind of really understand what made him tick a little bit. so yeah, I'm looking forward to that. What about you?

DJ Sir Daniel: I'm looking forward to everything you just said, as well as, um, A light bulb going off in somebody, some young person's head. I'm looking forward to his essence, jumping onto somebody and reliving and us being revisited by that spirit. Um, somebody being completely enamored by his work ethic and his passion for music.

And I'm looking forward to somebody. Um, up and coming, taking on and embodying that spirit of Luther Vandross and giving us pure magic in the music.

[00:21:59] Closing Remarks and Subscription Call

DJ Sir Daniel: That's what I'm looking forward to, um, happening as a result of this documentary, Jay Ray, please tell the people how they can get more of these dope conversations because If you're not checking in on Queue Points, you're missing out.

Jay Ray: Y'all so definitely thank you all so much for tuning in. If you can see our faces, if you can hear our voices, go ahead and subscribe wherever you are. Follow us on social media. Everywhere at Queue Points pod. We will really appreciate that and keep the conversation going. Um, go ahead and subscribe to our newsletter, visit our website at Queue Points dot subscribe to our newsletter at Queue Points.

com where you can also check out our, um, magazine. You can also check out our blog and if you love some fresh gear, you can also check out our store at store that Queue Points. com we appreciate y'all. We love y'all.

DJ Sir Daniel: Thank you so much. As always, what I always say at the end of the show is in this life, you have a choice. You can either pick up the needle or you can let the record play. I am DJ Sir Daniel,

Jay Ray: name is Jay Ray y'all

DJ Sir Daniel: and this has been Queue Points podcast, dropping the needle on black music history. We'll see you on the next go around.

Peace.

[00:23:17] Closing Theme

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