Michael Jackson’s “Dangerous” at 35: New Jack Swing, Videos and Memories

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Michael Jackson’s “Dangerous” at 35: New Jack Swing, Videos and Memories

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Welcome to Queue Points: MJ, the biopic & why Dangerous matters

Sir Daniel: Greetings and welcome to another episode of Queue Points Popping. Ha Watermelon podcast. Greetings and welcome to another episode of Queue Points podcast. I am DJ Sir Daniel,

Jay Ray: and my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my government as Johnnie Ray Kornegay III. And we are about to talk about the king of pop and one of the biggest moments in pop culture history.

Sir Daniel: That's right. But before we do that, Jay Ray, are you excited for the, for the biopic for the movie?

Jay Ray: You know what, actually I am now, so, uh. I like documentaries. Don't love biopics. Mm-hmm. Because I often find that biopics charlie, especially the after the last [00:01:00] Michael Jackson biopic, I was just like, you know what, I'm good.

Uh,

Sir Daniel: wasn't really a biopic because it was, it wasn't in theaters, it was on no shade. The VH one, but

Jay Ray: one, no shade to them. But, um, so no,

Sir Daniel: you did play in our faces though.

Jay Ray: They did shout out to Flex Alexander for getting that check.

Sir Daniel: Oh, shout out to Flex Alexander and that foolishness. Who was, who was, uh, recently in a Tubby movie that's supposed to be hot and Stevie.

Yeah. But anyway, aside from that,

Jay Ray: yes.

Sir Daniel: Um, the biopic is coming. Mm-hmm. Um, and I just re recently saw MJ the musical, took my mom to see that for her birthday. So Michael Jackson is just, you know, bubbling in my soul and we are discussing. What is inarguably your favorite Michael Jackson album?

Jay Ray: Second favorite, dangerous.

Sir Daniel: Second. I thought it was your favorite.

Jay Ray: No second favorite. Off the wall is definitely my favorite.

Sir Daniel: Okay. All right. Dangerous about Kobe talking, talking about dangerous.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Sir Daniel: Okay, so let's hit it. Let's talk about dangerous. [00:02:00] There was so much, um, fan fear around. This album, he truly had a lot to prove. Would you say that it's true?

Jay Ray: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

From Quincy to the ’90s: Michael’s new era and something to prove

Jay Ray: So, um, dangerous, uh, in the time in between, uh, bad and Dangerous, uh, Michael Jackson, uh, stopped working with Quincy Jones.

Sir Daniel: Hmm.

Jay Ray: Um, and that relationship, of course shepherded, uh, the biggest selling album of all time in Thriller, but also gave Michael Jackson off the wall and gave him bad.

And really solidified Michael Jackson, um, as a force to be reckoned with, as a solo act. Made him like huge, like he was otherworldly. And then I. The nineties were different though. So couple of things that are really interesting that I think happened. Of course there was the, the, the rise of Madonna, um Mm

mm-hmm.

Jay Ray: Yeah. That, that made a big difference. But then you had like Michael Jackson made wave [00:03:00] for the possibility for like huge pop stars. So you have, uh, Madonna, you have George Michael, you have Tina Turner, who is literally on fire all over the world. And even by 1991 when dangerous comes out, Michael's little sister, Janet has had two classic albums under her Belt and Rhythm Nation has been a tour now, and it's a whole new world.

So this, there was a lot to prove with, um, dangerous and, and Michael definitely wanted more control, but he also wanted to. Come into the nineties with the sound of the era and you know, we love this sound

New Jack Swing takeover: Teddy Riley and the Dangerous sound

Sir Daniel: and I think you're talking about new jack swing, of course. Mm-hmm. And if you're gonna get the, if you're gonna get some authentic new jack swing, you gotta go directly to the chef that is popping the most at that moment.

And that, of course is Teddy Riley. Mm-hmm. And, um, [00:04:00] immediately from the beginning we noticed that. Michael is like, okay, this is a fresh new sound for Michael. It sounds modern, it sounds hip.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: And then we're all kinda like, Hmm, what, what is going on here? Why does it sound like this? Why is it so good?

Uh, Teddy Riley is helping to promote, to produce it. Yeah. But, um, aside from riding the wave of a fresh new sound, I think there are, there were several events around this album that. Added to the mythology of it and added to the, to the boost that it felt, um, to the excitement around the album. And, uh, we're gonna explore that just a little bit.

The Music Videos

Sir Daniel: So there are several events around this album, uh, Jay Ray that catapult this record into. The atmosphere. Mm-hmm. It builds up the mythology behind it. It really literally turns this album into a [00:05:00] primetime event. And one of those things, of course is the, are the music videos associated with this album?

And it felt, if I could remember correctly, it felt like each video release was a primetime network affair. Yeah.

Jay Ray: Yeah, it certainly was. And, and I think Michael referred to these as like many, many movies by this point or whatever. So Michael Jackson, especially coming out of Thriller, you know, all of these videos, remember when Bad came out and I, it was on like a, B, C, like we could just watch it.

Yeah. So same thing with.

“Black or White” premiere: tech, star power, and the controversial ending

Jay Ray: Uh, when black or white showed up. Mm-hmm. Now I'm gonna tell you what's interesting about black or white showing up and III. Think what Michael did with dangerous is he was teasing stuff to radio at the time, so r and b [00:06:00] radio, I think it picked up jam as like a song that it was kind of like a teaser little single.

Mm-hmm. I was like, yo, this is crazy that Michael Jackson is doing this, right. With Heavy D, you know, doing a rap and all of that stuff, right? But then, so the first single that we officially get, the first official single is of course, black and white. And I don't remember which network that premiered on, but it was a whole event.

So you have McCulley Culkin. Video, I think slash is in the video. There's like guitars and the whole thing, and Michael's standing on the Statue of Liberty.

Sir Daniel: Yep. Yep.

Jay Ray: With with tape, there's

Sir Daniel: also

Jay Ray: tapes.

Sir Daniel: There's also a little known supermodel.

Jay Ray: Yes.

Sir Daniel: By the, by the name of Tyra Banks

Jay Ray: being

Sir Daniel: extra, some young man heard of being extra, which is, [00:07:00] you know, you're not Tyra Banks if you're not being extra.

Jay Ray: Yeah. But you know, so we, we get this music video that is very, this is what I consider to be. Michael Jackson's final form. So if we had any inkling of who Michael Jackson was going to be as an artist, I think black and white encompasses black or white, encompasses all of it. Um, where it's like multicultural in this way that.

Undeniable, but gives Michael Jackson kind of this international gravitas and I think black or white really does encompass that. But Sir Daniel, and I know you remember this, the controversy though, so the video goes fine. There's, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a McCulley Culkin, there's a music video, there's a Tyra Banks and [00:08:00] there's morphing.

It actually has some really cool technology 'cause it has the morphing technology that, that is new. But then Michael, because he is Michael Jackson, he's also extra

Sir Daniel: mm-hmm.

Jay Ray: Has a whole ending of this music video that involves. Cars and breaking of windows,

Sir Daniel: which got people's panties in a big knot. For whatever reason it was, they were just so appalled and so shocked by the violence.

Right. Of the, of the video. Now I think we got to, we have to. Put into context, um, that even though Michael Jackson is the king of pop, and you know, this sounds like a really nice universal theme for this out, for this record, but Michael Jackson is severely disturbed by, um, a lot of racial, um, violence that has been happening in our country.

And so [00:09:00] I think Michael reacting or. Having a place to display his anger triggered, um, America because they think, oh, this is cute. Little Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson is fun and he's gonna, he likes to boogie, ride the Boogie, and he, you know, he's here to entertain us and make a smile. Mm-hmm. No, Michael, I believe Michael Jackson is also pissed as a black man.

In the United States is also pissed and you're gonna get, you're gonna feel a little bit of that. You're gonna feel

Jay Ray: a little bit of that. Yeah. You know what, thank you for, um, for bringing that to bear. I think that's like really important too, is we, I think we often. We don't, Michael made it hard to forget that he was also, uh, concerned with what was happening in the world.

So every record, especially post, once again post thriller, uh, kind of mm-hmm. In included some [00:10:00] nod to what was happening. You know what I'm saying? In the. In the world, so we get heal the world. This is also Post We Are the World that Michael Jackson co-wrote with Lionel Richie, so we can heal the world on this album.

So Michael Jackson gets that his voice can be used in, in this very special way. But to that point, so we, we, black or white, comes out and is uh, uh, number one single. It actually debuts at number one. Um, it spends four weeks at number one, but. Something magical happens by single number two, and it is one of those singles that if you wanna get black folks doing choreography from all generations, we gotta talk about.

“Remember the Time” as a cultural moment: Egypt, choreography, and the kiss

Jay Ray: Remember the time And this music video was so

Sir Daniel: special. Remember the time was, like I said before, was an event.

Jay Ray: Yeah. [00:11:00]

Sir Daniel: That was an event if III want to say it. World premiered on Fox.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm. I think so too.

Sir Daniel: It might have World premiered on Fox and I just remember I, as a matter of fact, it world premiered on a Sunday night, I think it was during and living color.

Because I remember that being the talk of first period of homeroom and first period the next day at school. Mm-hmm. I mean, if you didn't see that video. You missed out. People were already trying to copy the dance moves. Mm-hmm. I know that, um, specifically here in Atlanta, um, a lot of us were geeked because, um, Michael Jackson and Fatima, of course Fatima that same.

Robinson.

Jay Ray: Robinson, yeah.

Sir Daniel: Robinson Fatima Robinson incorporated the Bart Simpson

Jay Ray: Yep.

Sir Daniel: Into the [00:12:00] choreography, which is a dance that when I tell you. The kids here in Atlanta had adopted that dance and it, it was everywhere. Mm-hmm. So it was just so exciting to see all the fly girls, 'cause they were, all the fly girls from Living Color were in this video as well.

Um, it was Star studded. Jay Ray, you had Eddie Murphy, Iman, mm-hmm. Um, magic Johnson Johnson. Yep. Um, who else was in. Um, who else was in the movie?

Jay Ray: Who else was in,

Sir Daniel: remember the time Was the movie,

Jay Ray: the video? The movie? No, no, no. But to

Sir Daniel: that one was almost like a movie.

Jay Ray: It was literally like a mini movie. So you get.

This ancient Egyptian mm-hmm. Um, idea. And so Eddie Murphy and Michael Jackson, totally friends, right? Mm-hmm. And, um, Eddie had already, of course, played royalty in coming to America.

Sir Daniel: Yep.

Jay Ray: And you get Eddie Murphy as, as the king, um, and Iman as the queen. [00:13:00] This is, and, and so remember the time also reminds. Wow.

Black or white is squarely, like I said, Michael Jackson, final form International Superstar. Mm-hmm. Remember the time also reminds us that Michael Jackson's black. Yes. Even though his complexion looks really different, Michael Jackson is black and this is a black music video. Mm-hmm. With black stars and black dancers.

And Michael is literally doing the Bart Simpson. We, Michael Jackson is doing these dances that we do and it felt like, yo,

Sir Daniel: but you know what I wanna bring to your attention, Jay Ray? This also, there was a moment in the video which caused. A lot of conversation as well.

Jay Ray: Yeah, it did.

Sir Daniel: Michael Jackson's infamous onscreen kiss.

He did? Yes. With Iman. And I'm trying to think back. I don't think, did he not kiss in the, in any [00:14:00] of his previous videos? Because he always had like a leading lady. Um, maybe

Jay Ray: in the way you make the,

Sir Daniel: I was gonna say make me feel lady. The pretty lady with the high heels on III. Think What about Ola and um.

Thriller.

Jay Ray: Yeah. They didn't kiss and thriller, but I do think they didn't kiss and thriller. Yeah. Yeah. But this was a big deal though,

Sir Daniel: and people lost their minds. People was like, ah, shucks. Michael trying to, Michael, Michael grown some hair on his chest and. You know? Yes. That's a whole nother conversation about Michael Jackson and his relationship to, to masculinity.

Jay Ray: Yes.

Sir Daniel: Through the, through the American male lens is a different conversation. Mm-hmm. But yeah, that, that video was truly the talk of the town.

Jay Ray: Um, which I will say, uh, like III said at the, at the beginning, I think remember the time. Uh, encompasses why this [00:15:00] record is so dope, it, uh, black or white in, in connection with, remember the time, uh, encompasses why the record is so dope.

So half of the records you get, um, uh, Teddy Riley in the new Jack Swing, uh, era. And then the other half, I think, uh, bill Trell or Bruce Sweet Trell. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Bill Bottrell, uh, did black or white. Uh, along with Teddy and Michael, but, uh, uh, Bruce Sweden did like most of the other half of the album as well.

You, so you get this kind of amalgamation of classic Michael and then Michael situated in, in, in what's happening in, in black, uh, uh, culture now. And for better or for worse, I think that, um. While it allowed Michael Jackson to, uh, continue his ascent, uh, uh, you know, in his superstardom right, um, this album also.

I think [00:16:00] made everything after it really difficult. So dangerous for all intents and purposes is kind of the culmination of Michael Jackson's classic period. So if we're talking about off the wall, thriller, bad, and then dangerous, this is kind of the end. And what, what, what unfortunately happens, uh, one, we get all these great singles.

Singles for days: “In the Closet,” Naomi, and riding the album for years

Jay Ray: Let me just run off the singles and then we'll talk about what happens after in the closet. Jane.

Sir Daniel: Underrated.

Jay Ray: Underrated. Yeah. So in the closet, you mentioned this to me, you were like, listen, when I get to do put a set up, I'm gonna put in the closet in the set. What is it about that song?

Sir Daniel: I will, I will put up in the closet next to remember the time.

Before, remember the time, every time, and I know that that's the DJ thing to go to, but in the closet is a bop. And, uh, there are, there's a specific remix on there that is just, it's [00:17:00] kind of, it's kind of just Michael riding a break beat, riding the break beat of, um, I think is it funky drumm? No, it's not Funky drummer, but it's one of the, it's, it's, it is one of the break beats that is very synonymous with new Jack swing and he's just riding that beat, singing, and, um, of course we get the whisper.

Yeah. You know, the, the whisper, um, of who I found out was the princess of Monaco was actually the young lady behind that voice. Um, but yeah, I will just, it just, it's, it, it's just a little funkier to me. Mm. And, um. Yeah, I, and I, I'm just like that if, if people, if they're like a hundred people playing. Um, remember the time I'm gonna be one of the five people playing, keeping in the closet 'cause it was just that dope.

And then you had a dope video with Naomi Campbell in it.

Jay Ray: Absolutely. Once again, Michael Jackson was definitely pulling out the black models for this whole album. So you get in [00:18:00] mind you get Naomi Campbell.

Sir Daniel: He's doing. He is Tyra. He's doing,

Jay Ray: yeah,

Sir Daniel: he's, he is leaning on sex a lot more too. Yes. In this album.

Jay Ray: Yeah, definitely. Very sensual. Um, but yes, in the closet you get jammed. Who is it? Uh, heal the World. Give to me. Will you be there gone too soon? There was nine. Singles for this record. This record had how many songs on it? So 14 songs, 14. Only five of those songs weren't singles. They rode this record out until like 1993.

So the, the, the, uh, dangerous tour, which grossed over like a hundred million dollars or something crazy. Um. They rode this record out for a couple of years, which is what you did back then. Like if you released a record, you had two or three years to ride that record out, which we cannot do today. But, so that, [00:19:00] that brings us to, I think, a, a really, uh, I think.

After the peak: tour stakes, career derailment, and the Jackson release-cycle theory

Jay Ray: Pivotal moment is dangerous. Also Marks the point where Michael Jackson's career, uh, kind of derails. Um, because all of the personal stuff right, that begins to happen around Michael Jackson, which is a whole other conversation that we just don't have time to spend, uh, on here. But, um, I enjoyed, so the record that came after this was history, which showed up in 95.

'cause Michael was all big on a four year break.

Sir Daniel: Yes.

Jay Ray: I also wonder, and I don't know if anybody knows this, let us know in the comments if you do, if at some point, uh, Michael, if Michael's team was like, we're gonna alternate off, off of Janet ears. So if you know what I'm saying? So if Janet got something to come, that's a great, yeah.

If she got something coming in 89, we are gonna give it a couple of years. So we'll come in 91. Mm-hmm. Because then Janet. It came in 93. Mm-hmm. And then Michael came back in 95, so I'm like, mm-hmm. I wonder if her [00:20:00] team figured out or their teams figured out like, no, we need to like alternate these years because

Sir Daniel: you know what?

That's actually a sound theory. It makes sense. It's like, oh, we, you know, we can rule the world, right? We continue to, the Jackson name will reign on these charts regardless if it's you or me. And being that, and I think that they were each other's favorite siblings.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Sir Daniel: Or, and you know, best, um, best sibling friends.

So. That makes total sense. I wouldn't be surprised if they did, if that was a, an actual tactic. And, um, yeah. I also wanna point out that what I learned from the Broadway musical was that this, this album and this tour, he had a lot writing on this. I mean, financially putting up his own properties for, to finance this tour, specifically the tour.

Because he wanted it to be [00:21:00] the most amazing thing that had ever happened, which he achieved.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Sir Daniel: I mean, III know people say this, and it sounds really hyperbolic, but it, it's the truth. There was never another human being that could stand before millions all gathered in one place. And not have to say a word.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Sir Daniel: But to have them completely losing it.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Sir Daniel: Screaming at the top of their lungs. Yeah. Ambulances are loading up people by the, that are fainting by the fives and tens at a time, just fainting. And he hasn't uttered word. He's just standing there.

Jay Ray: Mm.

Sir Daniel: You can't even see his eyes because of his reflective, um, aviation,

Jay Ray: the aviator glasses.

Sir Daniel: And he's just standing there with his app, his app outlets and just

Jay Ray: mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: That's like, that's power. And I think that made a lot of people nervous. But that's, you know, [00:22:00] that's part of that other part of the story that we're gonna leave. 'cause there's plenty of people that will pontificate about that.

Jay Ray: Yeah. Um, I love that so much. III. Think. Um, dangerous holds up as a record, as a, a collective body of work. Um.

Legacy check: Neverland imagery, fashion icon status, and why Dangerous still holds up

Jay Ray: Speaking of, uh, before we, before we wrap up today's show too, I do think, um, by, by the time Dangerous is released, Michael is now living in Neverland. Mm-hmm. Michael is incorporating that kind of, uh, circus idea into the cover where it's like a, a amusement park mm-hmm.

Thing, which he had started kind of coming out with. Leave me Alone. Yes. You saw a lot of that. Coming into that, but you see it really kind of pronounced as he shows up in, in, in dangerous and, and, and pieces of Michael's eye or Michael's curl that's kind of coming down, uh, his face. But Michael Jackson [00:23:00] was, he was a fashion icon.

He would, there were literally. People that were like trying to mimic these looks. He was a, a dancing icon. Mm-hmm. Where there were people doing the dances. And to your point about the tour, like. This man probably had to lose 10 pounds every night going on stage. And he's never's not

Sir Daniel: a big man to begin

Jay Ray: with.

He's not a big man to begin with. Right. I never had the opportunity to see Michael Jackson live, but I can't even fathom what that would be like because you are right. You would, we would see the videos of the people just like screaming passed out. Mm-hmm. Not because. Something happened to them, but because they were so overwhelmed by this man in front, by his presence, wow, me presence.

Super duper star. Dangerous is a bop. Y'all should go play it. It is the 35th [00:24:00] anniversary of this record. Um, and I'm sure, uh, with the Teddy Riley, uh, uh, uh, book that's coming out, I'm sure he has. Stuff about Mark Jackson stories. Absolutely. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Wrap-up & how to support Queue Points

Jay Ray: Y'all, thank y'all so much for hanging out with Queue Points.

If you can see our faces and hear our voices, hey, subscribe wherever you are. Tell your friends, tell your family about the show. If you like it, chances are they will as well. You can support Queue Points, um, so you can support us by subscribing, but you can also support us financially by becoming a member.

Being able to keep the lights on and Queue Points land. Being able to keep these recordings going and keep us doing the thing is really important and we can only do that with your support. So you can do that on our website at Queue Points dot com. You can also, yes, as dj Sir Daniel does his choreography.

You can also visit our website. Listen to all of our old episodes. Shop our store at store dot Queue Points dot com and uh, visit us on Substack where we have some dope, uh, stuff there. [00:25:00] We also have a great video on uh, Michael Jackson as well. I think we did a Michael Jackson's top videos or something. We did a whole thing on Michael Jackson.

Go check out that show as well. 'cause that's super funny. Um, what. It's super dope, but there's a funny moment in it where we talk about, you know, Michael Jackson, like being a Jehovah's Witness and like knocking on people's doors in the eighties. It's great times. Go listen to that show too.

Sir Daniel: That's right.

And we thank you once again for joining us. Um, as I say at during every episode and this life, you have a choice. You could either pick up the needle or you could let the record play. I'm DJ Sir Daniel.

Jay Ray: My name is Jay Ray. Peace,

Sir Daniel: and this has been Queue Points podcast, dropping the needle on black music history.

We will see you on the next go round.

Jay Ray: Peace [00:26:00] y'all.