Rihanna Is Our Last Global Pop Phenomenon

Transcript

Rihanna Is Our Last Global Pop Phenomenon

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Intro Theme

Introduction and Welcome

Sir Daniel: Greetings. Welcome to another episode of Queue Points podcast. I am DJ Sir Daniel.

Jay Ray: And my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my government as Johnnie Ray Kornegay III. And Sir Daniel, I am so happy to be going on this trip with you. Uh, yeah. This is gonna be a fun show.

Sir Daniel: It is absolutely going to be a fun show. We are heading to Bridgetown right now. We are gonna get us some fish cakes and flying fish and we are going to have a great conversation about Riot, Rose and Rocky's mom, we are talking about none other than the jewel of the island of the sun.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Sir Daniel: And I will, I'm gonna say this right now, Jay Ray.

Rihanna: The Last International Pop Star

Sir Daniel: Rihanna [00:01:00] Robyn Fenty is the last important international pop star of our lifetime. I'm gonna say that right? I'm just gonna put that right there. Y'all could argue in the comments and every and everything, but Jay Ray, we just want to take this moment and just discuss.

The importance and the impact of Rihanna on the, the pop culture landscape.

Honoring Bajan Female Artists

Sir Daniel: And before we go any further, so I will say this, so Rihanna is probably the, um, most recognizable Bajan female artist, but I want to give a salute. To some very important people like Allison Hines, who is the queen of Soca music. Uh, Shontelle Lane, who is also, um, who came along and was also in it, kind of in the, in the, um, vein of Rihanna as far as, uh, pop r and b, Tamara Marshall.

Rosemary Phillips and Shante Price. [00:02:00] I just want to give those ladies a nod. Their Bajan women performers, and they may not get, necessarily get the same shine that Rihanna has gotten, but they are also very important to laying the foundation and the blueprint for who we recognize as the pop r and b princess of the 24th, 21st century.

Jay Ray: Yeah. Thank you so much for lifting up the names of those women. I think it's so important to, um. Talk about the people who kind of paved the way.

Rihanna's Early Career and Rise to Fame

Jay Ray: And Rihanna is such a interesting artist because, um, I think if we were to go back in time, if we went into our way back machine into 2005, and, and, and first of all, I don't know if this is true for you, sir Daniel, but this was definitely true for me. Rihanna because she was a teenage girl. Um, she was doing that mid two thousands, pop r and b. [00:03:00] That wasn't really my thing, you know what I'm saying? I knew of her existence. So when I first heard Pon D replay, I was like, oh, that's a cute song. You know what I mean? But, you know, it was squarely for a generation that I was no longer a part of, so I recognized.

That she was present. I recognized that she was talented, and I'm like, you know what I'm saying? But it wasn't like, oh, I'm a fan. I, what I, I find so interesting about Rihanna is that she, she's interesting. You know what I'm saying? Like it would've been very easy for her. Um, and not to compare her to Janet Jackson because we've talked about this offline.

I think Rihanna's comparison is different.

Sir Daniel: absolutely.

Jay Ray: You know, but I, I think in the same way that, um, Janet Jackson had a very clear. Vision that emerged about what her career was going to be. Rihanna did that exact same thing of [00:04:00] like, I am going to have this particular career and when we just run down the numbers, this is fascinating.

Rihanna's Achievements and Impact

Jay Ray: Um, so first and foremost, Rihanna is. In the top five of biggest selling artists of all time for women. She's ahead of Whitney, she's head of Madonna, which is crazy when you think of how new she is compared to those women, um, and how groundbreaking those women are. Right? So 14 number ones. It's crazy. Nine Grammys.

12 Billboard Music Awards,

Sir Daniel: Jesus.

Jay Ray: 13 American Music Awards, including an ICON Award. This sister right here, see we be talking about, uh, uh, uh, people are, are legends and I think sometimes we throw this, uh, that word around really [00:05:00] loosely.

Sir Daniel: Yeah. Completely. Yes.

Jay Ray: when it applies to re, when it, when it, when we say this with Rihanna, it's actually true.

She has seven diamond singles. That means that is the equivalent of 10 million units of a song.

Sir Daniel: So, and she's only got eight albums.

Jay Ray: And she's only got eight album and she's, and she's, she's still young and she's still,

Sir Daniel: She's still, she's still here?

Rihanna's Personal and Professional Challenges

Sir Daniel: No, um, only eight albums, the last of which dropped 10 years ago.

Jay Ray: let's sit with that. Which means she was killing it. She was just releasing album after album after album, and I don't know if she's ever talked about this, but I am curious about what was that pace like? Why that pace?

Sir Daniel: So look, music of the Sun. [00:06:00] 2005. A girl like me, 2006. Good girl. Gone bad. 2007 rated R 2009. Loud 2020 10. Talk that. Talk. 2011 Unapologetic. 2012. And then she gave herself a break.

Jay Ray: For a few years,

Sir Daniel: and dropped anti in 2016. That. That needs to be studied. That is either a brilliant and a brilliant, um, work ethic or it, or it could be exploitive, something that

Jay Ray: or I'm trying to get outta this deal. I need to get outta this deal.

Sir Daniel: all, you know what, you know, what we love to say on, on Queue Points. Two things could be true, at the same, at the same time. It could all be true at the same time. And I think that it has worked in her favor.

Rihanna's Cultural Influence and Comparisons

Sir Daniel: Um, I will say, um, so you mentioned Madonna. I have to say Rihanna [00:07:00] is the direct descendant of Grace Jones and Madonna, in my opinion.

Jay Ray: I no hands freaking down. Agree. When we talk about comparisons, those are the two that I would come with.

Sir Daniel: Right. And, and it has to be said. So you, you made me think about the first time, the very first time I laid eyes on Rihanna was during her, it was a MTV, um, musical awards performance of, um,

girl like me.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: Was that a No, it wasn't a girl like me. It was from the Music of the Sun album. It was her very first single,

Jay Ray: Oh, uh, PON D Replay or SOS was the other big one. Was it? SOS?

Sir Daniel: No, it wasn't. It was more, it was that it had the, the BDP Ooh, sample in it.

Jay Ray: Oh, I can't remember. Child. I don't know. You know, I wasn't listening to Rihanna back then.

Sir Daniel: so she's performing on a beach and she's got the Trident, [00:08:00] which is featured on the Bejan flag.

And immediately, well, duh. I immediately was like, is she Bajan? Hold up. up. She's be now that I was like, oh, wait a minute. Okay. Let me, let me, let me hear her out. Because as somebody who was also born in Barbados, we didn't, bajans don't, aren't in the conversation a lot, especially when it comes to international pop stars or, or even in, in the, the conversation about international music.

Beins are kind of on the. Kinda on the low. Everybody likes to talk about Jamaica. Jamaica, Jamaica, Jamaica. But Barbados, Barbados is that girl as well. And you, and we find that out when we're introduced to Rihanna. And even though she's not really, this is squarely r and b pop, there's no, there's little tinges of, um, her ness.

I'll [00:09:00] say that, that pop up. In her visuals, her videos, and um, clearly when you hear her talk during her interviews, you can hear that chopped up Bejan accent. You know, she's, you know, she's from Barbados and I think automatically you've got all the bes on your side. Girl. All of us are automatically, we're clocked in like.

She just on the strength that Robyn, that she, her name is Robyn and from Barbados. We're all clocked in already on her side, but I, I, I'm thinking about her cultural impact. J um, Jay Ray, because she's come up. One, she's come up in the social media area era, which I think had a huge impact on how we, um, digested Rihanna as not only as a performer, but also as a personality because

Jay Ray: She has a lot of personality. That girl.

Sir Daniel: tweets were super, super, super spicy with hot sauce [00:10:00] all over them back in the day, and she was also brilliant at becoming the face of unapologetic women with complete agency over her bodies. It was very clear from the beginning that this girl is here to party and she wants you to party with her, which leads to her cultivating.

Community. So she changed fandom into community because I think that's where we start. Hearing people calling their fan bases by specific names. So we have the invention of the Navy

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Sir Daniel: and I automatically, you know, you and I know people who were clearly Navy and who were clearly beehive, ba beehive at the time.

So this leads me to my question to you, Jay Ray. Why were Rihanna and Beyonce immediately pit against each other when they clearly made different types of music?

Jay Ray: Oh, [00:11:00] definitely the Jay-Z connection.

Sir Daniel: Oh,

Jay Ray: It, it was the, it was, it was definitely the Jay-Z connection, like. I'm sorry I cut you off, but I'm like, oh,

Sir Daniel: You said that's it.

Jay Ray: that's really it. Like, because when you go back and you look, 'cause there's two things that were happening at the same time. One, shout out to Jay-Z for this too, because I do, I do think being, 'cause Jay was fairly new to Def Jam when he signed Rihanna, so she was kind of like.

This had to work for him, right? So signing this girl who, for all intents and purposes. There were other girls, and there's performances of this at the time that Rihanna was a part of, there were other girls,

Sir Daniel: Tiarra

Jay Ray: Tiarra, Marie Amarie,

Sir Daniel: Hey Marie.

Jay Ray: right. That she was on stage with. And if [00:12:00] you put and, and she wasn't the girl, like she wasn't the pick, but

Sir Daniel: Supposed to be yes.

Jay Ray: be the pick.

Right. Then of course she was like, now because we're talking about her as an icon, she absolutely was. So what was strategic though, is Jay understood. What his then girlfriend slash fiance, what her fandom was, and Brianna was in a completely different lane. She was doing international pop r and b at a time when black women didn't have opportunities like that.

Sir Daniel: You know what? Not When you put it in that perspective, I, you're absolutely right. I get it. And to your other point, we hadn't seen a black female performer connect with an international audience like that since Tina

Jay Ray: Since Tina Turner. Yep. [00:13:00] Exactly.

Sir Daniel: Yeah. And there's just a, which points to an other worldliness.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: That you have to embody, um, to, to, to be palatable by every man.

You know what I'm saying there? There's just, there was just something about her. I'll never forget when, um, breakfast Club host and media All star. Charlemagne the God back in the day, he, every Friday, Charlemagne would ask the question before you head on into Friday, remember to ask yourself, what would Brianna do? it was just, and that, that just meant that she was the standard of what, um. Reckless abandon

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Sir Daniel: and, and partying and, and having a good time and expressiveness. She was the standard of what that was without having to where I think people were still [00:14:00] holding, um, Beyonce at a level they were trying to put.

Like how we used to do it, Whitney,

Jay Ray: Yes. Pri

Sir Daniel: Whitney in, in that prim and proper princess mode. Rihanna came in and was like, you know what? After that, after that, that she got rid of the bundles and got that, that blunt jet black bob, it was it from,

Jay Ray: A

Sir Daniel: was up from there. It was up from there.

Everybody should just completely cut that off and, and wink. Bur on the charts and in people's minds because she lived free in people's minds. And let's face it, she did have a, a really huge machine behind her.

Jay Ray: I so glad you went there.

Rihanna's Business Acumen and Branding

Jay Ray: This is the perfect segue 'cause I'm, I'm thinking a lot about this and, and, and I'm going back to something you said earlier and Rihanna has never said this, but I will be curious 'cause I'm sure we'll get an, an autobiography from her at some point in the future. But, um, [00:15:00] potential exploitation, um, is, is, is, is coming up in my brain for, for a couple of reasons, right?

So, one, this woman, to your point is working at this incredible pace. Two, um, this woman is still a young girl navigating this intense international fame, I'm sure with a lot of, of, uh, foolishness going on around her. Um, but. Also having to navigate being this incredible, this this public figure that is also a, a woman who's been go, who goes through stuff.

You know what I'm saying?

Sir Daniel: Yeah, I mean, could, so what she's able to do is she still needs to heal, but she's still, she's healing in luxury. It's a luxurious healing right.

Jay Ray: It's a luxurious healing.

Sir Daniel: But it's healing nonetheless. It's going, it's getting away from everything. Um, putting clean to her family, surrounding herself with her family. [00:16:00] Um, I know she spent a lot of time in Barbados, built a, a huge home for her, a compound for her family, mom, all of that stuff.

And I think that. Lent to her healing and putting things into perspective to where she could navigate the rest of her career and say, you know what, um, I only, I only have what, two more records on this contract. This is what I'm going to do. This is how I'm going to approach it. Because we saw that, it's like we saw after that incident and the, the things that took place after it and the strategic moves, I, I really believed it was like, well, I'm looking at.

The end game here. And I, um, I think I've done what I want to do and I think, which is huge for a performer because a lot of performers, because of fame and we, we all know how intoxicating fame is. A lot of performers aren't able to walk away from that and say, I don't, I'm cool on.

Jay Ray: [00:17:00] Yeah.

Sir Daniel: This aspect of being famous, the, the amount of, she's probably burnt out from being in the studio.

She probably has oodles of music that hasn't even been heard yet. So if she wanted to drop a project, there's probably some stuff in the can right now that she could just release and say, here y'all t take that, you know, and, and, and have, and have fun with it. But I think life and what I referred to, um, earlier about her. Understanding the agency that she has over herself and modeling that for other women. Um, I kind of lifted her up in respect to the way other women viewed her, but also made her a target and made other women that came after her targets as well. Because if you notice the vitriol for women who present like a Rihanna who present.

Unapologetic and outspoken. Now, the vitriol [00:18:00] has kind of raised, has risen for women like that. Uh, Allah, Meg Thee stallion, who, you know, who had her own run in with a man from, with Bejan lineage, but we're not gonna, um, acknowledge him anyway, so, but, um, yeah, so. I think she, she, it's a double edged sword.

She's this face, she's become the face of empowerment, but she's also set the stage for, um, for the women that come after her that say, you know what? This is the blueprint of how I wanna present. I'm a badass. I'm, she's, she literally has introduced us to baddie culture. I would say Rihanna is, Rihanna probably created baddie culture in her own way.

Oh, uh, the best part of baddie culture. I'll say that because baddie culture has also turned into evolving into something else. Um, wild. But, um, let's not negate. [00:19:00] The, the, the, the business acumen you had mentioned before. Jay Ray, I just wanna go through the fact, I wanna say that Rihanna is, university is a university level course on the global impact of branding, on global branding impact.

So you're talking about these people had to believe the fact that she would, that she could, um. Um, not only relate to but entice people that they've already, that they've created their brands for these major luxury brands. They're looking at her as luxury. She is the standard of luxury and will attract people to those brands.

And that there's not a whole lot there. There's not a whole lot of black women.

Jay Ray: mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: In pop culture that can say that they have been a part of that. So I think I, I just had to shout her out for that, for that part of, for that dimension of her, her business acumen. And I think because of [00:20:00] those in endorsements and, and being a, a, a.

A, a, a, a ground investor, an early investor in Uber. And, um, t which, you know, a lot of people does, can be debated,

Jay Ray: some people like their title.

Sir Daniel: Some people still like Title, um, and the New York Liberty, you know, she's at the ground level of those things in investing in them. So I think those are important because it, it gave her the freedom to step away from the music.

Jay Ray: Abs, it is refreshing

Sir Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Jay Ray: to. Know that there is the possibility, Rihanna is the possibility for what happens when you work hard and do your things, and you have the ability to just say, I. I'm gonna [00:21:00] do this now. And in her case, she is a mother. She is a partner. She is not pressed about giving us what we think we need.

Meanwhile, anti is. A brilliant album, if that is her last album ever. The Woman Won. The Woman just outright won by giving us an incredible classic period of albums, right? But the freedom, watching a black woman who is able to say, you know what? I've been there, I have done that. I worked my behind off for this.

I'm gonna go be a mama to these babies and a partner to my man, and I'm just gonna live my life with my family. That that right there is the message. Do the work, and if you wanna step away from [00:22:00] it, be cool you, she doesn't owe us anything.

Sir Daniel: you know, I'm glad you said that because that leads to my final point. I think we just have to, I want to express to you, listener, watcher, I want you to sit in this moment of acceptance. We all, I think we, I think, Jay Ray, think you and

Jay Ray: it in your body and you need to embody

Sir Daniel: had enough time to, we we're settled with it.

We're good. We're, we're sitting in it. We're sitting in this acceptance. I think the rest of you all that still bring, and I think y'all are coming around, but the rest of you all that still want to ask questions about music and new music is that. Listen, this lady gave us a Super Bowl performance

Jay Ray: Which was amazing all up in the, in the thing, pregnant, pregnant.[00:23:00]

Sir Daniel: and she gave us a performance of a lifetime.

I don't care whether she was lip syncing or not, that

Jay Ray: She sounded amazing. That performance went off.

Sir Daniel: Listen, but so hear me out guys. I think we just need to sit in this acceptance and lean on those memories, cleave to those memories and the music, the catalog that she has left for you all for us, and just sit in that.

And also, like Jay Ray said, look at her. Um, look at her as, as a, not, not necessarily a blueprint or inspiration, a direct inspiration for you, but just look at the possibility Rihanna is, Rihanna is the embodiment of the possibility of what can be achieved when you just have the gumption and a whole lot of attitude and are able to.

Put it, put it in and make it work for you [00:24:00] succinctly. So, yeah, I, I, that's just the girl. She really is. She truly is that girl. I mean, again, like I said, at the top of the show, at the top of this episode, y'all could argue about it. I think she's probably one, one of the last important international pop stars of our lifetime.

Jay Ray: Yeah. Nope. Absolutely agree. And, um, what I love about this conversation too, sir Daniel, is we, and we, we, you know, we talked about this Rihanna. I. Is outside of the generation that we typically talk about on this show. But what I love about her is she definitely stands direct in the lineage of folks that we do revere and talk about, and we also revere, uh, the work that she has done.

Um, so go y'all and play y'all some Rihanna. Go and find your Rihanna playlists and put them on. I,

Sir Daniel: Play the performances. Play the [00:25:00] YouTube, YouTube, the performances that MTV performance where we, um, I think Kit Fury recorded to it as the pasta, pasta performance, what she was wearing, uh, she just had on a durag. My, there wasn't like a whole liquor, there wasn't a whole lot of choreography for her to do, but.

To me that speaks to the power of performance. She has the right amount of music, hits that stick, like grits and the, the attitude and, and and gravitas to come out there and just have people behind her and just have a good time and, and do her songs. And people are like, that was the best performance of the evening. And I'm not just saying that because she's Bajan and I too, but go ahead.

Conclusion and Call to Action

Jay Ray: So some things that y'all need to do, if you can, uh, hear our voices, see our faces, uh, go ahead and subscribe to Queue Points. Go one step further. Um, you can subscribe and become a member. Uh, Queue Points Insider, and you can do that on our website. We would [00:26:00] appreciate that. So insiders help us to be able to keep this thing going.

Keep this thing running. The way that it run, it keeps that website going. It keeps. All of these things that we're able to do, it allows us to be able to do them. So your support would be greatly appreciated. Uh, check us out on Substack. We got a whole bunch of, um, content on Substack for you to check out in addition to the show.

And you can shop our store@store.queuepoints.com where you could pick up t-shirts and, and hoodies and, and mugs and all the things. Uh, we just appreciate y'all and we love y'all.

Sir Daniel: We sure do. What would Rihanna do? Rihanna would drop a bag on that donation button you see right now on Queue Points podcast, that's exactly what Rihanna would do. But what do I say? What do I always say? At the end of every episode in this life, you have a choice to donate. Now in this life, you have a choice.

You could either pick up the needle or let the record play. I'm DJ Sir Daniel.

Jay Ray: And my name is Jay Ray, y'all.

Sir Daniel: And this is Queue Points podcast, dropping the needle on black [00:27:00] music history. We will see you pond play. All y'all peace.

Jay Ray: Peace.

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