Stanning Danity Kane

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Intro Theme

Welcome to the Show

Sir Daniel: Welcome to another episode of Queue Points Podcast. I am DJ Sir Daniel.

Jay Ray: And my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my government as Johnnie Ray Kornegay III and Sir Daniel. We, [00:00:30] since the start of Queue Points have often talked about what happened to the girl groups, right?

Danity Kane: The Phenomenon

Jay Ray: Well, there was one girl group that in the kind of later years, like the, the two thousands,

Sir Daniel: Yes.

Jay Ray: was a phenomenon and we gonna talk about 'em.

Sir Daniel: Absolutely. Um, I'm going to say right here in the beginning of this, um, this conversation. Danity Kane is probably the most successful [00:01:00] girl group put together on a nationally televised, um. Game show, I mean, which on a reality show, uh, which was making the band, um, Jay Ray just reminded me that that show is over 20 years old and I cannot believe that much time has passed since we were fir we were introduced to Dawn Aubrey, um, Dominique,

Jay Ray: Uh, yeah. [00:01:30] Dominique.

Sir Daniel: Jamila, uh, all the girls and, and.

Jay Ray: to go ahead to Queen

Sir Daniel: You know, all the girls and of course the amazing Laurieann Gibson, all people that made that show good television because not for nothing. It was great television. Jay Ray.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Making the Band: A Reality TV Revolution

Jay Ray: So when we think back to contextualize, uh, this era of making the band, so there's kind of like pre Diddy, there's, there's Diddy, and then [00:02:00] there's pre Diddy. So. Um, I think as, as we've mentioned on this show before, there was a version of making the band that was headed by Lou Perlman. Lou Perlman was responsible for all of the white pop boy bands, so nsync, Backstreet Boys, et cetera. O-Town. So O-Town actually I think came out of the first making the band, I think they were the, the, the band that was made and, um. Uh, that's a [00:02:30] whole lot of different stories to talk about with Lou Perlman, but I think Right. But I think the, the, the interesting thing is Diddy clearly read the tea leaves of his career, um, and.

And realized that one hip hop was changing, r and b was changing, and that in order for him to remain on top, he needed to go to tv. And so then we could of course get Making the Band One. Well, the Making the Band With the [00:03:00] band, which was a wild name for a group of people that weren't a band. Duh band.

Sir Daniel: The band.

Jay Ray: But then it was this one though.

Yeah.

Sir Daniel: So I was gonna say, um, if we, if we had to rank the making of the band franchises, I, this is my statement, I would say number one is Danny d Kane, and then, then the band comes in number two, and then I would, um, [00:03:30] day 26 comes in at number three for me as far as. Enjoyability of a show, that's how I would rank those three, um, franchises.

Would you agree? That's fair.

Jay Ray: I absolutely agree.

Danity Kane's Journey and Impact

Jay Ray: Um, what's interesting about, uh, uh, this particular, the Danity Kane era of making the band is this kind of became appointment television for me and.

Sir Daniel: For sure.

Jay Ray: Yeah, like, and, and, and, and I had moved away from [00:04:00] I think reality TV as like my primary thing. Um, but for whatever reason there was something about, uh, these young women coming together to form this group and not knowing what was come gonna come out of it.

So I remember even when Danity Kane was selected, feeling like I didn't know where Diddy was gonna go. You know what I mean? Because there was such a diverse mix of young women to choose from. But I absolutely agree, [00:04:30] and this was appointment television at the time when reality TV was like really, really growing and we were literally getting a group out of this group that was uh, group, out of this show that was kind of formidable.

These girls could sing.

Sir Daniel: They could actually sing. And so here's the, the, the, the distinction between the monster that American Idol was 'cause remember by, at this time, American Idol has been around for at least four years now.

Right. But what was distinctive [00:05:00] about between making the band and, and um, American Idol is that they literally, they were following the contestants outside of just.

The actual show and the competition, like everything became part of the show where they were living, living in a house together. They wanted, they made sure that they showed every single piece of this growth, of this, um, experimental, this experimental show. They wanted to show every piece of the journey to [00:05:30] everyone.

And so, um. I also think what's so interesting is that now we now know that Diddy, this show was a vehicle for him

Jay Ray: Yes.

Sir Daniel: and made him, still made him a household name. But what was so diabolical j Ray, is that he literally only showed up like maybe. In two parts of the show, he might do like a, a video call, which is very Tyra Tyra s Tyra mail, you know, and then he come in [00:06:00] at the end, excuse me, and his entrances.

It would be so ominous.

Jay Ray: do so Diddy's here guys. You know what I'm saying?

Sir Daniel: Yes.

Jay Ray: And he'd walk in. So girls, ladies, what's up? You looking a little chunky,

Sir Daniel: to line up right now and be ready to perform. So, so characteristic of Diddy. Absolutely.

Jay Ray: It really was. And I think. [00:06:30] As so we, we, we get the opportunity, uh, to see this group get selected. And so the season finale of kind of Danity Kane season is when they pick the group, right? And, um, first out the gate. Who became a like a star? The show was Aubrey. Right. So Aubrey is the first name out the hat, which was not surprising to me because she became kind of a central figure of, of [00:07:00] the show.

She became a breakout star of the show and quite frankly, I actually thought that she was gonna do a whole bunch of other stuff, like I think she was really poised to, but yeah, so he pulls her name out and then we get the other girls that he, he selects, but. I remember specifically Aubrey O'Day sticking out among these, these young ladies.

Like she was almost a s shoe in.

Sir Daniel: Totally. And so before we go any further further with that, let's not, we would be remiss if we did [00:07:30] not remember that there were two seasons out of this

Literally people were, everybody was sent home at the end of the first season and everybody was just completely dumbfounded. Like, what's happening?

What? We just spent however many months in this house learning choreography, learning to sing together, um, meeting each other and um, [00:08:00] and learning each other's personalities. But now we're just going home,

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Sir Daniel: which is diabolical in itself. But to your point, I, and I said this off air, I really do believe that Arbery from the beginning showed that she had a business acumen before when she came into the competition that none of the other girls had.

And then on top of that, she was kind of, you know, [00:08:30] she was a

Jay Ray: was like, she was the sex symbol, you know? Um, she fit the brand of that era of

Sir Daniel: she did, but she wasn't giving, and to her credit, she wasn't giving white girl trying to be black or trying to affect, you know, have that kind of effect.

Jay Ray: Yeah. So I think what's interesting, and I'm glad you mentioned, uh, kind of the Danity Kane piece kind of broken out into two seasons.

The Legacy of Danity Kane

Jay Ray: One of the things I think is the most interesting 'cause here's what we're seeing now. So as of the time of [00:09:00] us recording this. There is another Danity Kane, reunion, Danity Kane reunion.

There have been three, like three, um, this is the third. And seeing the crowd's reaction to them had us off air as we were preparing for this. Really thinking through like, what is it? And I truly do believe Sir Daniel that. Us watching these women [00:09:30] go through this process developed like a relationship with them.

So no matter what version of Danity Kane people get to see they are in, the audience is in, because they're just in for their girls being on stage together. And we got to watch them record all of these songs on the show too.

Sir Daniel: We got the, to watch them record these songs, these classics, we [00:10:00] gotta see them. Um, do learn dance routines. I don't think so. I don't think we all, um, realized that, that

Jay Ray: Right.

Sir Daniel: that song actually, who did that belong to? Was that, um, was that Sherry? Was that Sherry? It was another bad boy artist that that

Jay Ray: It might have been, it might have been Sherry Dennis.

Sir Daniel: And, but we knew it immediately because the beat, we heard that beat ad nauseum [00:10:30] when it came time for, uh, for dance copy. Oh, attention My Body. We knew those songs down pat.

And so when it came time for them to be a, a fully realized group with an actual album to their credit. Absolutely, it makes total sense. So when I see the reunion footage, these girls never not have a sold out show.

Jay Ray: Right.

Sir Daniel: The shows are packed. [00:11:00] Um, there are people buying their records and going to see them. It just makes sense.

We're talking about a group that has sold 1.5 million records worldwide or no, in the us.

Jay Ray: In the us. Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: Three albums to their name self-titled, welcome to the Dollhouse and DK three,

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: excuse me. It just mar rutabaga. It just makes total sense that we, that the audience that has literally grown up with them, just [00:11:30] like we said at the beginning, this, that show is 20 years old. 20 years old. So think about it, you are what, maybe 13, 15? Watching the show, you are almost about to be 40. You grew up with those girls?

Reflecting on Reality TV and Girl Groups

Jay Ray: You know, this brings up a question. Um, now, sir, I'm curious to know where you land on this. Assembling a group is not a new [00:12:00] phenomenon. That happens all the time in music. So many of the groups that we love, bands that we love, have been assembled bands. Um, but because this group was assembled on tv, how do you or do you like, um, are they a real group?

Is Danity Kane a real group? You know what I mean? Like what does that look like? I don't know. I just thought about that.

Sir Daniel: I, well, I think they are a real group because [00:12:30] they've done, aside from the, the music part of it, cr going in and recording albums. Um, practicing for their stage performances, the photography, the touring, and then getting, getting, um, taken advantage of by the music industry,

um, being broke [00:13:00] at times. Um, disbanding coming back together.

Whether it was three or whether it was five, all of those things are hallmarks of being a real group. So I say yes, they're absolutely a real group.

Jay Ray: You're absolutely right. And um, it's so funny, this makes me, uh, this makes me think of when you were talking about like their, their three albums. Lemme tell you something. Damaged by Danity [00:13:30] Kane. I don't care how, when that song comes on, that song is a bop all day.

Sir Daniel: You

do.

Jay Ray: Jams galore. But, um, and I'm curious to know, uh, uh, uh, the thing either Danity Kane related or otherwise related to making the band that you remember most. But I will tell you when I was doing research for this, 'cause I hadn't listened to the first Danity Kane record in, [00:14:00] you know, a long time. It's a 20-year-old record now, but I remembered when I read the title Sleep on it.

I could not get out of my head watching that show and watching Dawn Richard in that studio being Badger to get this right and it was these dudes like I could, it was everything about that. These dudes. That was [00:14:30] just flummoxing her, but not her. It was what it was being required of her from the producer.

Right. And it is just a moment that I'm like, man, sleep on it. And these dudes, I know Dawn was going through.

Sir Daniel: So for me, one of the, aside from the. The choreography moments. One moment that always sticks out to me is when they, they were truly blessed to have this when they would have those [00:15:00] vocal coach sessions with Betty Wright, who is a frigging icon. Okay. Is an icon. They, they, they did the thing when they got Betty Wright to be their vocal coach.

But there was one episode in particular where, um, Aubrey was getting frustrated. Was it Aubrey or was it Shannon? It was one of the, two of them was getting, not frustrated, but [00:15:30] Betty wasn't feeling it from them.

She

Jay Ray: I think I can see it. Right, right. Because it was

Sir Daniel: she was feeling it from that. From their undergird. From their undergird.

She wasn't feeling it. And they were singing this one line over and over. I love you

Jay Ray: you. I would never, and but, and then for ever.

Sir Daniel: And they kept, they had to sing it in harmony. They had to sing it solo. They had to sing it in rounds. And let me tell you something, I would be [00:16:00] sitting watching that show in tears. In tears because now there's an, I have an earworm of I Love You Forever,

Jay Ray: to.

Sir Daniel: and Betty Wright's sitting there with a drumstick and, and one snare.

Like, pow, pow, pow. Come on, let me, I need to feel it. I need to feel it. Those are the things that endeared us to

Jay Ray: Yes. Oh my God. Um, when we take a look at [00:16:30] Danity Kane as a group and their impact, because I think that's the other thing that we, we forget, is that they actually were, they had hit songs. These records were hits and they were, their audiences were huge fans of these records. I'm wondering what you think.

The lasting legacy of this group is

Sir Daniel: Hmm, Hmm.[00:17:00]

I think their legacy is, is that yes, you can be, um, you can be put together, you can be, um, yeah, you can be put together, manufactured right. However, there comes a time that you become, you assume the [00:17:30] identity of said group. That identity becomes a part of you, and I think that they show that regardless of how you come to how you're brought together, once you gel as a group. And you had, and that chemistry is undeniable regardless of how you all got together. You can still be, uh, a group that has something to contribute to the industry, to [00:18:00] the arts. It doesn't matter how you come together, but once you use those experiences and you actually build and grow together, like, I think that's the, so the legacy then is there has to be.

Uniformity. There has to be practice, there has to be rehearsal in person. I know we're in a, a virtual kind of world these days, a digital world where people wanna, oh yeah, I'm gonna give you, I'm gonna put my verse on the phone and drop it to you, airdrop it to you. [00:18:30] None of that stuff. They show that if, even if you are a manufactured group, if you put in the hard work, uh, and the, and the, um, and use the processes of.

Olden days, you can be considered, you can, you can, um, solidify yourselves as a legendary group. You can have a career that is worth that people will be talking about, like Queue Points 20 years later.

Jay Ray: [00:19:00] That's so dope because when you think about it, um, and girl groups are so important to music history, particularly black music, right? Like girl groups mean something, those harmonies, that connection, those dance moves, et cetera. Um, as we talk about groups like. Uh, Destiny's Child and SWV and in Vogue, right?

You still put Danity Kane there. And [00:19:30] Danity Kane is one of the, of that era. They are one of the last girl groups to be like a big hit. Um, they might be the last, if we, if we really look back on the history. I haven't researched it. I know y'all gonna let us know in the comments.

Sir Daniel: look, we know y'all liked y'all, fifth Harmony and all that other stuff, but they just weren't around long enough. I'm sorry.

Jay Ray: It's a different kind of group and I guess people could say the Pussycat [00:20:00] Dolls, but were those other girls even singing? Except that one girl, she let us know.

Sir Daniel: She let she, every time I think about it, it cracks me up. Melanie Let Nicole Burger, I think, is that her name? Nicole,

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: know that my mic is on. And you are gonna, I know I'm about to get a pink slip after this, but y'all are gonna know that my mic

Jay Ray: Baby. What did she do?

Sir Daniel: be on. She, she did a [00:20:30] Oh whoa. In front of everybody, and Nicole was so heated.

Jay Ray: my God. The look on her face was amazing. But, um,

Sir Daniel: have.

Jay Ray: but yes, Danity Kane gets said along with all these other names, right? And, and holds their own. And, um, it does make me a little bit nostalgic for these kind of competition shows. 'cause now of course we still [00:21:00] have like the voice and like the X factor.

What's the one? Uh, America's Got Talent, but this is different to your point. This was like, no, we are putting together a group. And um, it does make me a little bit nostalgic even though the music industry isn't. It wouldn't respond to that. It's like,

Sir Daniel: at all.

Jay Ray: how many followers do does that girl have? You know what I mean?

Sir Daniel: Which girl?

Jay Ray: No, I'm just saying no. That would be something the music

Sir Daniel: Oh yeah, [00:21:30] yeah, yeah. They, they'd wanna know.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Sir Daniel: So lemme see. I was looking at your

Jay Ray: Instagram.

Sir Daniel: Um, first of all, it took me a long time to find it, so we've been working on that. How many followers do you have?

Jay Ray: I know you can sing and everything. Mm. A thousand, uh, sorry, baby. Um, but I, I do adore Danity Kane.

Individual Successes and Final Thoughts

Jay Ray: Um, I have a soft spot for Dawn Richard, um, [00:22:00] and I feel like she has made the most. One, she's made the most consistent music. She's got the most consistent music career out of all the girls, um, and has, uh, uh, uh, just been killing it for like a really long time on the independent side.

So she's not only a performer, but she's also a business person. And she loves, she definitely wants people to know that, hey, I'm running this thing myself. And, um, but listen, we wouldn't have a dawn and we wouldn't have that [00:22:30] creation without this group. So.

Sir Daniel: Right, the same way I gave, um, Aubrey, her props for her business acumen. I, we knew off the bat that Dawn. Was a complete artist when she came on the scene. I mean, quick to write,

quick to pick up choreography, everything. So yeah, Dawn Richard has true, truly, truly led the way in creating her own. Um, path in this as an artist.

And, you know, shout out [00:23:00] to Shannon because Aubrey and Shannon had a

Jay Ray: Dumb blind was

Sir Daniel: dumb blondes, which is very successful. And, um, D Woods of course, um, is an actress. We all, we've all seen D Woods and TVs or or stage player near you, so shout out to them.

Jay Ray: Yeah, we wanted to spend some time, y'all just kind of, um, one big in these women up, but also celebrating the fact that, uh, this show happened. Um, [00:23:30] and it is a, it is lightning in a bottle. I don't know that we could ever do this thing again.

Um, with Sister Lorianne. Um,

Sir Daniel: Listen, the sixth member of Danity Kane is Laurieann Gibson. Laurieann Gibson, not for nothing. Probably the breakout star of making the band.

Jay Ray: Honestly. Yeah, I was, I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's real. I know I said Aubrey, but Loriann was definitely like a [00:24:00] character unto her. You were waiting for her to, what is she going to say? What is it like this like, like this?

Sir Daniel: It's this, it's not, it's too much.

Jay Ray: Love Lorianne y'all.

Conclusion and Farewell

Jay Ray: Thank you so much for tuning into Queue Points. As always, let us know your favorite making the band moment, uh, particularly from the Dandy Kae seasons, but if it's from another season, let us [00:24:30] know. I know y'all going to talk about them going up to get that cheesecake, uh, in the, the, the band season.

But, um. Let the fuck. It's a different time, but subscribe. If you can see our faces and hear our voices subscribe. Tell your friends, family, colleagues, if you love Queue Points, chances are they will love Queue Points as well. Visit our website@Queue Points.com. We got a whole bunch of freshness over there, including our entire archive of [00:25:00] episodes.

And you can check us out on Substack. We got a ton of stuff over there. Shop our store. Help your brothers out. You know what I'm saying? Keeping these Queue Points, lights on@storeQueue Points.com. We appreciate y'all, we love y'all.

Sir Daniel: It's like I say, in this life, you have a choice. You can either pick up the needle or you could let the record play. I'm DJ Sir Daniel.

Jay Ray: My name is Jay Ray.

Sir Daniel: And this is Q Point's podcast, dropping the needle on black music history. We will see you on the next go round on the one and the [00:25:30] two, not

Ah, okay.

Jay Ray: Peace

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