The Lesser-Known Masterpieces of Michael Jackson

Episode Transcript

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[00:00:00] Intro Theme (Music by Danya Vodovoz)

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[00:00:30] Welcome to Queue Points Podcast

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DJ Sir Daniel: Greetings and welcome back to another episode of Queue Points podcast. I am DJ Sir Daniel.

Jay Ray: And my name is J Ray, sometimes known by my government as Johnnie Ray Kornegay III. What's happening folks?

DJ Sir Daniel: Yes, we are back with another fun filled episode. I'm here to brighten your day, um, because we need it, J

Jay Ray: We ooh, my goodness. Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: need it big time.

[00:00:55] Addressing a Tragic Event

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DJ Sir Daniel: Um, you know, we would be remiss if we did not Um, mentioned the tragedy that has happened right here in Georgia at the, um, another school shooting, another high school shooting, another interruption into the lives of.

Children,

Jay Ray: Yeah,

DJ Sir Daniel: children, a whole, there's a whole generation of children that are just, their lives are just nothing but drills and, um, running for their lives. So we just want to take a minute just to, um, acknowledge that what's happened. And I'm just, of course, in our thoughts and prayers to the children of, you know, what is it?

Apple? I can't remember the name. Appalachia High School

Jay Ray: Yeah, I'll look it

DJ Sir Daniel: in Winder. I know it's in Winder County, it's in Winder County. And, you know, just, God bless those children.

Jay Ray: And I mean these young people just got back to school

DJ Sir Daniel: Just got back to school.

Jay Ray: just got back to school. And, uh, every time I hear about something like this happening, I think when I was in school I could not have imagined

DJ Sir Daniel: Never.

Jay Ray: at school. Like that was, so far it was, there were certain places that felt like covered by, you know, covered school, church.

Grandma house, you know what I'm saying? Where it was just like, these are places where you can go and be safe. And that has not been true in decades.

DJ Sir Daniel: Wow.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: So, yeah, um, just sending up those. Those thoughts and prayers and acknowledgement to everybody involved, all the families. Thank you. Um, Mark Appalachian, Appalachian high school. That's the name of it. Um, so yeah, we're going to go ahead and get into this episode of Queue Points. Um, and like I said, bring some joy into your life just for a few minutes.

And so we can reminisce and talk about. a very, very hardworking man who we just celebrated his birthday a couple of weeks ago. It is Virgo season is in effect. And while I'm at it, I just want to say thank you to everybody for all the wonderful birthday wishes. I mean, you guys really make it know how to make an OG feel good.

So thank you to everybody who, you know, shouted me out on the social medias and just gave your boys some love.

[00:03:29] Community and Support

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DJ Sir Daniel: But Jerry, before we get into all of that, please remind the listeners how they can continue to become part of the Queue Points growing Community

Jay Ray: Yes. Um, all so much for tuning in. If you can see us, If you can hear us, thank you so much for being here. We appreciate you hit the subscribe button. If you have not already done. So if where you're joining us has a notification button, also hit that notification button. So you can get notified whenever Queue Points goes live.

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Visit our website at Queue Points. com where you can get more. You can, um, certainly read a Queue Points magazine. You can sign up for our newsletter. Um, which is a great way to stay connected to us. And if you want to do even more than that, You can go and shop, uh, our store at store. Queue Points. com where you can get all types of gear.

We are getting into fall season, so we're going to be pulling back out these hoodies, um, and you can get you some Queue Points hoodies to wear during the fall.

[00:04:56] Shoutouts and Listener Engagement

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Jay Ray: Um, Sir Daniel, as we, we jump into things, I do want to say Send, um, shouts out to Kimberly, Kimberly Stewart. Lucas is joining us. Warrior Mama is in the, in the building once again.

Hey Mark. Um, we see Black Lifetimes 24, uh, is with us on Instagram, so just wanna shout y'all out. Um, thank you all so much for being with us and everybody else who's joining. Let us know where you're joining from.

DJ Sir Daniel: That's right. Kimberly is fresh out that house in the park celebration from the other day. So I'm sure her bones are, are, are, and muscles are nice and healed by now, but I'm sure she got her life. And I can't wait to see you and talk about your house in the park experience with J Ray.

[00:05:40] Diving into Michael Jackson's Legacy

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DJ Sir Daniel: It is time for us to talk about, um, Michael Jackson.

We have not dedicated a complete episode to Michael Jackson yet, which I think is weird, but you know, we, there's just always so much to talk about. And it, you know, I think now is the right time that we get around to, to Mike Jack and to just talk about not necessarily. Him as the performer and his work, his body of work, I think there's a lot of stuff that Michael Jackson has had his hands in that we don't talk about enough.

Jay Ray: Yeah, no, I absolutely agree. And I'm gonna just speak for me personally. And sir, Daniel knows this. It's hard to talk about Michael getting into the career of Michael Jackson means that you have to wrestle with Michael Jackson, the persona, the career, the allegations, the law, all of this stuff, it's a lot of stuff, y'all.

And. There's a lot of other things out there that you can listen to and you can watch that do that sort of thing. But I like that we are doing this, Sir Daniel, because you're right. Like, often when we hear the name Michael Jackson, we immediately go to Michael Jackson, the performer. The man who's like on the stage in the middle of the stage.

But, What's wild about Michael Jackson is he was just like a, um, an artist and musician who like did stuff not out front. And that's really interesting to me.

DJ Sir Daniel: Absolutely. Like getting prepared for the show, just finding out how people like Kenny Loggins would run up to him at an awards show or a banquet or something just to be like, Hey, um, I'm recording an album. You want to hop on? And Michael's like, sure. Then there's this other out, um, this other band that's recording and it's in the studio next door to where he's at.

And they're like, Hey, you want to come on over and lay down some vocals? So Sure I got time. I'll just run over there and lay down vocals that just, you know, Michael Jackson was, was just a performance performer also, but, and a creative,

Jay Ray: Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: just a creative that loved to do what he did. And I think you're gonna see that in this episode because there's lots of stuff that's going to be talked about, didn't necessarily hit, but you could tell they had a good time doing it.

So.

[00:08:12] Michael Jackson's Influence and Collaborations

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DJ Sir Daniel: I think the, so when we were discussing this, J Ray, you had been, um, have been trying to get me to watch this documentary and I have not gotten a chance to watch it yet, but you have watched this documentary called think twice. And that led us down, uh, uh, a pathway of the exact moment when things began to change for Michael

Jay Ray: Yeah. So, um, actually Think Twice is a Wondery podcast. It was one of my favorite podcasts. Yeah. One of my favorite podcasts of 2023. I think time is a concept that I don't understand. I think it was 2023 and, um, full disclosure. I was advised not to watch Leaving Neverland as a document that came out on HBO.

I was literally advised don't watch it. Let me give you the CliffsNotes and you just stick with that. And so I was like, okay, I'm not going to watch. I'm not going to watch Leaving Neverland. I'm going to hear what people have to say. Think twice. I was really interested in because one is co hosted by J smooth.

Shout out to J smooth. Just like a OG content creator, hip hop, uh, just an amazing dude. Right? So I thought that was interesting. And I'm like, Oh, J smooth is going to be talking about Michael Jackson on this podcast. Anyway. Think twice. Michael Jackson really does go through, uh, the, the career, the life of Michael Jackson more than anything using, um, that, that, that phrase from Billie Jean think twice, right?

And right.

DJ Sir Daniel: think twice.

Jay Ray: Halfway through the podcast, we finally get to this is the moment when Michael Jackson's life changes, because here's the weird thing, Sir Daniel. There is an alternate universe where Michael Jackson doesn't become. Michael Jackson, right? There was definitely the possibility where Michael Jackson could have still been performing as one of the five members of the Jacksons.

And that was it for him.

[00:10:37] The Wiz: A Turning Point for Michael

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Jay Ray: But in 1977, um, they had gotten greenlit through Motown, the whiz. And, um, it was floated that Jimmy Walker should be the scarecrow, but one of the, the producers was like, no, that ain't it. That is not it.

DJ Sir Daniel: That

Jay Ray: That ain't title. That ain't title. There's an alternate, right? So there's an alternate universe where Michael Jackson was the scarecrow, but that person, oh, I can't remember their name right now, but we'll put thing twice. In the, in the description. But anyway, where they were like, well, you know, who's an option is Michael Jackson, right?

Michael Jackson's already a star. Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: think about that. Like you were about to say, Michael Jackson's already a star and somebody's looking at him as an alternate.

Jay Ray: Literally, Michael Jackson is an alternate choice.

Well, part

DJ Sir Daniel: can dance a little bit. He can sing a little bit.

Jay Ray: Well, part of the reason why Michael is an alternate choice, and this is why this is really important, Michael Jackson comes with Joe Jackson.

DJ Sir Daniel: Oh

Jay Ray: Remember this world that existed prior to Michael Jackson being the biggest star in the world. Michael Jackson was being managed by THE Joe Jackson.

And Joe ran the Jacksons with an iron fist. Joe was in charge, okay? So, when the producers did approach Joe, Joe immediately goes to, okay, well, all the boys and he's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. We are being very clear. We only want Michael, only Michael. And the filming is going to happen in New York. They're living in LA, right?

Michael is still living at home in LA with his family. And they're like, no, Michael needs to come to New York. And we only want Michael to do the movie. That's it. That changes Michael's life because one, he meets Quincy Jones. Two, he figures out that He can kind of exist on his own and kind of explore. So he's in New York going to studio 54, him and Latoya are living in an apartment together.

You know, they are living the life as young, rich black folks in New York city. And Michael is now like, Oh, there's like a world. outside of my Encino, California compound that I live on, and I'm interested in exploring this world. So yes, the, the moment in time that changes Michael Jackson's career trajectory is him being cast at the Scarecrow in the Wiz. And and to Kimberly is in the thing. So Kimberly know Michael Jackson and Quincy Jones were not connected before that point that whiz experience is what brings them together.

DJ Sir Daniel: and just imagining ki like, I get it, Joe, but Joe was like, nah, if you want one, you gotta, you gotta take 'em all. Like, were they gonna be Scarecrow? Oh, not scare crows, but the, um, the, the crows and the, you know, they were gonna be crows or were they gonna be flying monkeys on the motorcycles? Like what was, what did Joe think was going to happen?

But that's just. I don't know though, that's just one of those moments when you really Have to bank on yourself. And it's like an Iliad Odyssey moment where a young man stands at the crossroads of his life and he, he ventures out on his own. And, you know, of course he has his big sister with him, which I'm sure.

God, if they had cameras back then,

Jay Ray: Oh a key

DJ Sir Daniel: been a hoot. Go ahead.

Jay Ray: I got a favorite story. It's a wild story. So. Michael and LaToya are living in this apartment in New York City. And this producer, whose name, my God, it's going to kill me, goes, they say they go to the house and there's like cases of sparkling water, just like Perrier all over the place. And they're like, You are, y'all are really into sparkling water.

Michael was like, no, no, no, no. I bathe in it. I like the bubbles.

DJ Sir Daniel: That's so rich. That's just rich. That's just rich and work shit. Like that's just That's decadence. That's just Opulence. And I'm not mad at it. I, you know, I, I'm not mad at young people, young black people experiencing that, like, why should other people be the only ones to live a lavish lifestyle? I'm here for it.

I am here for it. But hearkening back to what you were talking about. Michael going out to Studio 54 and soaking up that dance culture, stoking up the disco. I mean, it's no wonder why we got the work out of him. Why? It's no wonder how we got off the wall out of him and everything else that came after that.

But, um, but so yes, so In this time, Michael has grown. He's he's gotten his chops, not just as a, not just as a singer and a performer, but a writer and a producer. Like you said, he met his fangali and, and, um, and Quincy Jones and, That just sparked so much more of his talent and growing him as a writer and a producer.

[00:16:44] Michael Jackson's Songwriting and Production

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DJ Sir Daniel: So J. Ray, I think the, just what we just have to do as a duo here is to go through some of our favorite Michael Jackson writer producer moments, because it's not featuring him. This is stuff that he's done for other people. These are going to be things that you've probably heard, or you're going to be surprised that he is the man behind it.

He's the pen behind it, but, um, I want to go first because this is my favorite. Well, this is one of my favorites. And, uh, Kimberly, I know this is one of yours and, and, um, and Lisa's as well. Because in the quiet of the night, when the centipede is crawling, it's just a magical time of night. Ribi Jackson, of course.

Michael's eldest sister recorded centipede and it's released on September 10th, 1984. Um, it's written and produced by Michael and he's got the background vocals of not one, but two weather girls, Martha wash and is Zora Rhodes. And it's a cult classic, Jerry. That's all. The only thing that we can call that song is just one of those pop phenomenons that.

It doesn't make sense. It's like, what is going on here? The video is high camp

Jay Ray: the campiest video with the, with the lightning coming out of

DJ Sir Daniel: lightning hands.

Jay Ray: There's museums, there's white people. We don't know what's happening. It's a bop.

DJ Sir Daniel: A whole bop and it's just, it's just thunder wrist and that baseline that,

Jay Ray: Doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom,

doom,

DJ Sir Daniel: just amazing. It just, I, I love it. Um, I wonder what that's like being in the studio. as the elder sibling, but being produced by your younger sibling, who is definitely the man who has more skin in the game, but you know, really part, they were all part of the entertainment dynasty. That is the Jackson.

So I just think about those. I really wish there were cameras back then for all of that.

Jay Ray: You know, um, I think that. Song is interesting. I mean, Rebe did have that album and then I think she had one other album before, just kind of. Um, being the older sister, right? Like kind of letting that be her role in the whole thing. I will say this though. If you are going to have one big hit, you want it to be Centipede.

DJ Sir Daniel: You

Jay Ray: that's, You want it to be Centipede? And, and we've talked about this on the show. We talked about this in the Martha Wash, uh, or the House, uh, the House Divas show that we did. So Reby is the, Reby is the oldest, oldest, I believe. And then Jackie is right after her. I think Reby is like the oldest, oldest, Kimberly.

But somebody, uh, correct, definitely let us know. But I'm pretty sure Reby is like the oldest, oldest. But, um, I will say that, I'm glad that Martha Walsh is getting her flowers for that whole vamp part that she does. That Rebe, uh, does her little shimmy shoulder to in the video and is lip syncing. That is not, in that big breakdown y'all, that is not Rebe Jackson singing.

That is absolutely Martha Walsh

DJ Sir Daniel: We're talking about the ground. Love it. Love it. Love it. Pure, pure camp. What's the, which leads me to think Michael Jackson, definitely. Well, we all know this because we've heard time and time again, that he was a prankster. He had a wild sense of humor. So knowing, so him creating a camp classic, but also a bop is, is pure. Michael Jackson is Michael Jackson at the Michael Jacksonist.

Jay Ray: Yes! Um, We're going to talk about another song that I think has the same thing. Actually, all of Michael Jackson's songs, I think, in a little bit have had that same characteristic. I will say that this next song that we're about to talk about.

DJ Sir Daniel: Oh, this is you right here.

This is your jam.

Jay Ray: okay, and I, and you know what, I'ma make something clear on this show too, Sir Daniel, because you know, we did our Divas in 83 show.

I want my, I want Diana Ross fans to be, to know that of the three divas, of the four divas that we covered, because we ended up covering four, Diana is my favorite diva of those four. If I had to pick a diva of that group, I would pick Diana. I just didn't like that record. It's, it's, stuff can be two

things.

The fans

DJ Sir Daniel: were coming for J Y'all don't understand, the fans were coming for Jay Ray Like, I'm so glad this wasn't like a Nicki/Beyonce situation because the fans are a little bit older and they don't have as much time to dedicate to coming at Jay Ray's neck, but it's hilarious. Oh, they were getting

you together

Jay Ray: I just want the people to know I am very, I am very clear. I love Diana. So 82. So this Diana at this point is, this is her second album into her RCA deal. And, uh, Andy Warhol shot the album cover for this. This has an Andy Warhol cover. Diana is Diana Ross. Okay. First single is muscles. Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh Huh, I have so much to say about this, but written and produced by Michael Jackson, background vocals by come on the Patty Austin, Maxine and Julia Waters released in 1982, September 17th, 1982.

So we're coming up on an anniversary for that. And I didn't know this, sir, Daniel, until you put this in the notes, but this was allegedly a answer to Olivia Newton John's physical, which I understand, right?

DJ Sir Daniel: Yes,

Jay Ray: Two things. That. I think about often when I hear muscles because I immediately associate muscles with two things.

I associate it with, um, fun times in the, you know, being YouTube friendly, fun times that people, adults have together. And I also think of the fact that Michael Jackson was really religious when he wrote this song. Michael, we forget that Michael Jackson was a devout Jehovah's Witness. Apparently, Michael Jackson in the early 80s, y'all, was like going around LA knocking on people's doors.

You know how they knock on your door and they gonna give you the watchtower? That was Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson was literally giving out watchtowers. As a megastar.

DJ Sir Daniel: And you know what else you got to think about though, Jerry, when I think about muscles and physical, we, so they end up being gay camp classics, like

Jay Ray: Absolutely.

DJ Sir Daniel: major bathhouse songs, major, major, um, drag performance songs, like these songs. I don't, I'm pretty certain he didn't even know that that was going to happen with them, but the fact that.

Jehovah Witness Michael is also penning muscles and is looking out for the drag queens and the drag performers and the muscle boys that down to the, um, down to the ball, walking in the muscle category that song is used, um, is used, was used predominantly when it came to the muscle boy, um, categories.

And I

Jay Ray: Michael knew what he was doing.

DJ Sir Daniel: You think so?

Jay Ray: I, I,

I,

DJ Sir Daniel: knew, he knew the reach of these particular songs?

Jay Ray: think that Michael, remember he had had this experience. Michael was really, he had lived like he was worldly. Is that what the people would say? I think the church people would say he was worldly, right? So. Exactly. So he had spent time, like I said, in Studio 54.

He has spent time in these clubs taking in this music. Um, and so he, he understood and he's a, he saw it. He understood what it all meant and he was able to channel it and write it. And he saw, um, I think he saw Diana as a sex symbol, which at that time she was. Like Diana, that breathy vocal, Diana was a sex symbol and he, you, and muscles was a way to play that up.

DJ Sir Daniel: You know what, you're absolutely right, because I could see him sitting on, standing on the sidelines watching her perform, which he did a lot. And he would just watch her perform. And I guess you would get, you would become inspired by seeing the crowd's reaction and people losing their, their minds when they see her out on stage.

So it's like, I need to write something that is worthy of a diva. And that's exactly what he did with muscles. All right. So he, Michael not only wrote for women. Michael actually did write for, um, for other men as well. And I think one of our favorite duets, and you were just listening to this off air, um, is by Paul McCartney and, um, and Michael, Michael actually didn't write well, he

co wrote I'll say that

Jay Ray: him and Paul wrote it together.

DJ Sir Daniel: Wrote, wrote, say, say, say together, um, produced by George Martin. The song was released in October 3rd of 1983 and became Michael's seventh top 10 hit in 1983. And so J Ray, I think the, now here's the, this is kind of messy. But it's legendary. And we always hear about other people, uh, mostly black people getting the short end of the stick.

But during the time that, um, Michael and Paul McCartney were recording say, say, say Michael lives with Paul and Linda and, you know, he was staying with them over time. And of course I'm pretty certain, you know, they're hanging out having dinner or whatever. And Paul just says, Hey, you want to see something?

Paul pulls out. of a ledger of all the songs that he's written, all the Beatles basically showed him his catalog. And in that moment schooled Michael on the importance and how lucrative publishing

Jay Ray: That's Shane.

DJ Sir Daniel: is to a musician. He's, he plainly said, Michael, every time this song is licensed or it's played anywhere, I get money.

And of course, and we know Michael, that's music to Michael's ears. Mr. Perrier bubble

Jay Ray: Right.

DJ Sir Daniel: music to his ears. And so, huh. So little did Paul know

Jay Ray: A little tip all

DJ Sir Daniel: planting the seed to get his publishing got by

Jay Ray: by Michael Jackson,

DJ Sir Daniel: who bought it up

Jay Ray: Business, you know, Business 101. Michael is like, Oh, the Beatles catalog is available. I should buy that.

DJ Sir Daniel: right?

Jay Ray: Now, And I think it's also important to know that, I think that is so critical what you just mentioned. And also this is part of the trifecta. So Michael Jackson and Paul McCartney are tight during

this period. We get say, say, say we get the girl is mine. We get the man, Michael Jackson and Paul McCartney could have been huge.

DJ Sir Daniel: They could have been a super

Jay Ray: They literally could have been a super all three of those songs are magical in their own way. So the man is like a rock pop. You have a say, say, say, which is like a R and B jam. You have, um, the girl is mine, which is like a nice soft, you know, pop rock thing.

Michael Jackson and Paul McCartney had Michael, I have had Michael not went and bought that man catalog could have been. A super group. It would've been crazy.

DJ Sir Daniel: that, that video was a who to remember. Um, Latoya was in the

video, of course, Linda McCartney's and always in the video. Um, they were hobos,

Jay Ray: wear hobos. Where they wearing? Like me? They had on, they had

DJ Sir Daniel: They were scammers. They were like those hobos that would go across the country and scamming people out of their money, doing tricks and, and, and, and pickpocketing people and selling snake oil, that kind of stuff.

So, which is, which is pretty ironic. They were stealing from each other. But, um, yeah, I, you know, at this point, Michael Jackson is just white hot. I mean, literally white hot. He is the biggest star in the world. And here we are.

[00:29:59] The Story Behind 'We Are The World'

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DJ Sir Daniel: It's, um, 19 going into 1984, 1985. And we, as a whole, the music industries is experiencing like a boom.

There are all these superstars that are making lots and lots of money. And. They, they are the, the mega stars. It's not just movie stars anymore. These radio, video, pop, rock, R& B, whatever category you put them in. These people are mega stars now because of music videos, mostly because not everybody can see

Jay Ray: Mm-Hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: And so with that comes some sort of responsibility because it's the eighties and there is a huge disparity between the haves and the have nots. And. As a country, our vision is going not just here in the United States, but our vision is going across the world, and we're seeing people in the world suffering.

So Harry Belafonte, um,

Jay Ray: Shout out to Harry Belafonte.

DJ Sir Daniel: you know what I'm saying? Has always been a change maker, um, into good trouble as the late John Lewis would say, and was like, listen, there's people in Africa that are starving. The, the, the famine rates are super high on the continent of Africa. And so he wants to use his, his stardom to help.

And so of course, back then, you know, He wants to reach out to all the, um, all the musicians that he knows and says, Hey, can we do something? Can we, you know, what can we do to, to, to help aid Africa? Now, remember J Ray, um, there was a, uh, a UK version of we are the world that what actually came out

Jay Ray: yeah, Bob, Bob Geldof, I think, uh, did that. Yep.

DJ Sir Daniel: And it was a live

aid.

I'll feed the, do they know it's Christmas,

Jay Ray: yes. The Do They Know It's Christmas. Live Aid was the, the HIV, uh, situation. Yeah. Do They Know It's Christmas had come out, uh, with Jodie Watley. Band Aid. Band Aid. That's it.

DJ Sir Daniel: Aid. And so Jodie Whitely, I saw the Poynter Sisters, all the UK stars, Bananarama, Culture Club, all of those folks, they've done Band Aid, and they're singing the song, Do They Know It's Christmas? to raise money to, um, feed people in.

Jay Ray: Mm

DJ Sir Daniel: And so of course, you know, Harry Belafonte reaches out to Lionel Richie and next thing you know, this, this idea, a ball of snow is starting to, is starting to accumulate. And before you know it, then a night in 1985, I believe it was January. One night in January in 1985 in, I believe, Lionel Richie's home,

Jay Ray: Probably.

DJ Sir Daniel: 46, Jay Ray, 46 of the biggest artists in the United States got together to record We Are The World.

Jay Ray: Insanity. No.

DJ Sir Daniel: because it wasn't as easy as it looked in the video.

Jay Ray: Well, and so the interesting thing, so we're actually tuning in next week. I have not watched the documentary yet. I cannot wait to watch it. We are going to talk about this documentary and this one night that creates this moment, but was so dope is. When you look at We Are The World is the diversity of, it's intergenerational.

So you have newer stars that are there, like your Cyndi Lauper's and your Huey Lewis's, standing next to your Stevie Wonders and your Diana Ross's, who are literally 20 years into their career at this point. They are the veterans. And, but, All of these people are coming together on this one song and for this one night to record it and helmed by Michael Jackson with his glasses and that, that, uh, with these glasses on.

Did he have that curl coming down the whole time?

DJ Sir Daniel: The one spit curl. I think this was, um, One Glove Michael at the time as

Jay Ray: Yeah Yeah, and Lionel Richie, who had been pinned, he had just pinned Diana's last number one, um, in Missing You, uh, he's like the man. So you have these two huge writers. who are rich, richer than, my goodness, we will probably never even understand, getting black and Quincy Jones, who's royal, who's for like 40 years into his career at that point, or something crazy, probably like 30.

But anyway, you get all these people in this room doing this thing. It was magical. And Michael was behind it.

DJ Sir Daniel: 46 artists that are from different genres now,

Jay Ray: Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: Ray. Like trying to get and who don't now, the funniest thing about it is just the difference in everyone's, um, what's the word I'm looking for the discipline of singing for

Jay Ray: Their performance style.

DJ Sir Daniel: their performance styles, their people are very, not necessarily note conscious

Jay Ray: That's a nice one. he

DJ Sir Daniel: Uh, listen to me. This is the note right here. Listen to me. Sing what I'm singing. You're down there. I need you

Jay Ray: was giving Whitney with Brandy. Why are you down there?

DJ Sir Daniel: Exactly. Exactly. And so it's just a fun time. It's just a fun thing to watch and to know that at any moment behind those dark shades,

Jay Ray: Oh, his eyes.

[00:36:08] Michael Jackson's Perfectionism and Collaborations

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Jay Ray: He was shady.

DJ Sir Daniel: could have come out at any

Jay Ray: He was shady.

DJ Sir Daniel: was like any good Virgo. Michael is a control freak and we would like things done a particular way. And we really want to, we want to work with people. We respect these people. You can see it in his face. Like, Oh, I don't know where you came from, but you sing. You think you, um, Bob Dylan singing and he's wrong.

Can you open your mouth and sing? You can see it in his face. Like open your mouth and sing and poor Cindy Lauper. I can't wait for us. So we're going to talk

Jay Ray: we're going to talk about this. We got so much to do on, we got more to come in on Cindy's. So yeah, next week, come back next week. When we talk about

DJ Sir Daniel: come back for the next episode D. But yeah, um, just a, another testament to Michael and his, and just his, his, his persona, the person that he's become because he garnered, people came because of him. They heard it was Michael, Lionel and Quincy. So that means you got clout. You got some serious clout in this industry at this point, but Jerry, we just, you know, Michael wasn't always writing these songs.

Sometimes, like I said, at the beginning, if he was in the studio and he was feeling something, sometimes Michael would hop. On and sing on your background vocals.

Jay Ray: You know, and that's always so interesting. So I remember when I first realized. Um, some of the songs that Michael Jackson sang backgrounds on and Michael, it was one of those things where that's when you realize he was like, oh, he's just a consummate performer because he's just on the backgrounds to this song.

You may or may not know he's on the backgrounds to this song. He's just doing his job. You know what I'm saying? I'm here. Sometimes, you know, sometimes you don't know. So. Cool.

[00:38:03] The Iconic 'Tell Me I'm Not Dreaming'

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Jay Ray: We wanted to spend a couple of minutes talking about some of Michael's greatest background vocal appearances. And I mean, okay, this one that's at the top, I think is like the ultimate, like the pinnacle.

Cause you know, Michael takes a, he takes a verse in this and him, despite all the things that we know about the relationship between Michael and Jermaine. We know it was Fraught Child, but those two together, those two could have been a supergroup. Michael Jackson and Jermaine Jackson, like, performing Tell Me I'm Not Dreaming, which is also classic and black people, because you could not tell me that that song was not Tell Me Am I Dreaming.

That's not the name of the song.

DJ Sir Daniel: It's telling me I'm not dreaming, but there are parts in the song J Ray where I'm listening and it does sound like it goes between back and forth between tell me I'm not dreaming or tell me, am I dreaming? But yes, you were correct. That's a, you know, black people. We love to switch it up, switch it up with these lyrics.

It's

Jay Ray: So yeah, tell me I'm not dreaming is a classic bop. Um, and I think I agree with you. That is, I was playing that again right before we got on this thing too. And I was jamming. In fact, when I told my brother we were doing this show, he started singing. He started singing. Tell me I'm not dreaming. And I was like, that joint is a jam.

Uh

DJ Sir Daniel: So, um, one thing about tell me, tell me, I'm not dreaming that the labels weren't pushing that song because of, well, because Jack, I mean, Jackie Jermaine is on RC. No, Jermaine is on Arista and Michael is on Epic. And so there was a conflict about playing, about pushing that record on the air between both labels.

So apparently it didn't get a lot of airplay, but like you said, I'm pretty certain the DJs picked up on it and ran it in the ground because we all know Tommy, I'm dreaming and it's a bop. that came out December 21st of 84. Man, the eighties, such great music. That was Jermaine's like, um, self title album.

Jay Ray: Yeah. And he was like five albums in by then.

DJ Sir Daniel: yeah. And he was really feeling his, he was doing the military jacket with the Appalachians like his brother. And no, it was like, okay, game on. I'm a really show y'all who's the king of pop around here. And man, what a relationship, what a relationship to the end. So

Jay Ray: To the end. Um,

DJ Sir Daniel: anime were beefing, but it's okay.

It's okay. We, we got Tommy.

[00:40:45] Michael Jackson's Background Vocals and Family Ties

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DJ Sir Daniel: I'm not dreaming, but I also think now when Jack, Michael got with his cousin and it's so funny when people find out that

Jay Ray: Ain't that crazy?

DJ Sir Daniel: to the

Jay Ray: And Janet just said that. Janet was like, yeah, you know, Stevie is our, it's our cousin along with Tracy Chapman. And. Someone else. It's like another name that we wouldn't, that we wouldn't. Oh, Samuel L. Jackson is also their cousin.

DJ Sir Daniel: Yeah, and I love how she says it so matter of factly like, duh, Stevie Wonder's our cousin. I mean, sorry about, sorry we didn't tell you all in the beginning, but yeah, that's our cousin.

Jay Ray: Yep. All

DJ Sir Daniel: of our favorite songs, J. Ray, September 29th, 1980, All I Do. And that, such a,

Jay Ray: And it's such a subtle, that's one of those ones that I didn't know Michael's same background on until I got older and I was like reading the liner notes. For that song. Now let's talk about, cause the line, the backgrounds on this song is giving because Michael Jackson is on this, Sir Daniel, Eddie LaVert is on All I Do.

I'm pretty sure. And I think Betty Wright is on that song too. I'm a double check this. Somebody, uh, correct me if I'm, if I am wrong, but I'm pretty sure. Um, yeah. Betty Wright. Michael Jackson, Eddie LaVert and Walter Williams. So we got two OJs on All I Do.

DJ Sir Daniel: we need to do, we need to do a feature on Betty Wright because Betty Wright was no slouch. Mama was singing background on every and everybody's songs and had her own hits. Super sampled artists. Yeah, we got to give some Betty Wright some respect as well.

Jay Ray: Yep.

DJ Sir Daniel: But yes, Stevie Wonder is all I do. And we mentioned Janet and this is okay.

I I'll be honest. This is one of my favorites on the list. I know people hated this song when

Jay Ray: This is a

DJ Sir Daniel: I mean, it's cheesy. It is a very cheesy quintessential 80s. Like I really when I hear the beginning of don't stand a chance by Janet Jackson. I do think that the I keep. Thinking that nerds revenge of the nerds is about to pop up on my screen or something with some very, very analog computer typing is going to, is coming across my television screen for a very eighties movie.

It's a Marlon produced it written by Marlon Jackson, and you didn't get just Michael on the background vocals.

Jay Ray: Brothers, come on brothers. You're going to sing.

DJ Sir Daniel: We got Jackie, we got Tito, who got Jermaine and Michael. So you got all of them, all of them on

Jay Ray: this is the Jackson 5 is doing this. I so first of all, shout out to Janet Jackson's first album. It's so many things on this record that I absolutely adore. Um, and I, you know what, let me know for those that have seen Janet live over the last few years. Has she been doing stuff from the first album?

I hope she has. Um, as you know, I don't care about Dream Street. So I don't care if she does.

DJ Sir Daniel: How could you not care about Dream street

Dream street is everything

Jay Ray: I don't, I don't care.

DJ Sir Daniel: I do. I do want to say that I think maybe an essence, she did do something from that dream, either dream street from that era. I want to say she did do something in that era, but I absolutely. We. Love that era.

[00:44:34] Reflecting on Michael Jackson's Legacy

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DJ Sir Daniel: Somebody in the text is asking, are we excited for Michael's biopic?

Um, I hadn't really, I hadn't really thought about it every now and then some, um, photo stills from the, from the, the behind the scenes pops up. And because it's his nephew, there are moments where he's just like, Oh, Okay. Yeah, they, they did that shot. That looks like Michael. So, but maybe I still have PTSD from, uh, the, from

Jay Ray: The Flex Alexander

Oh my God.

DJ Sir Daniel: with that white paint on his face.

And, you know, I still have a little PTSD from that, that I'm not really getting my hopes super high. Now, what I have heard great things about was the broad is the Broadway stage play.

Jay Ray: I heard that was

DJ Sir Daniel: phenomenal for nominal.

Jay Ray: Agreed. Yeah, I think I'm with you. I am like, yeah, I want to see what they do with it. I love the fact that the family is involved. I think that's encouraging. Um I am not expecting to learn anything new and that's okay. You know, listen, I was saying that same thing about Whitney.

I was like, baby, we have gotten enough documentaries and enough things that I feel like we have all the stories we need to have. Let's celebrate Michael's career. So if it's going to do that, I'm all for it. I would, I would love to see it. And you know, I want to see what the family has to say. So, um, But yeah, this last one that we're about to talk about, Sir Daniel, is people often think this is a Michael Jackson song and it's just not a Michael Jackson song.

DJ Sir Daniel: Oh no, just the opposite. I was, I was, I was an adult when I, when I found out that Michael Jackson was singing backgrounds on this song.

Jay Ray: Really?

DJ Sir Daniel: I was an adult. I was just like, huh? And then, you know, it's just one of those things when you sit in, when somebody tells you and you're sitting there like that is him.

Oh my God. And you feel so? Yeah. Yeah. I

was on a slow bust that day.

Jay Ray: So, a fun story, just a little bit of a background about this particular song. So we're talking about Rockwell's Somebody's Watching Me. Um, I want to talk about, you said something earlier that I think this song really encapsulates a Michael Jackson trope too, but I think what's interesting about this song is, uh, this is, of course, Berry Gordy's son.

Motown signed Rockwell not knowing who it was, so he took on this name, Rockwell, submitted this demo for this song, They were like, yes, let's sign this young man and it turns out he had done it all without no anyone knowing that it was actually the boss's son. The boss didn't even know, like they had signed him and he was like, wait a minute, what?

So no one, right, dis you. Somebody's watching me. Rockwell, um, background vocals by Michael Jackson because, you know, they were friends, you know, they're from the Motown family. This is my friend. And the Michael Jackson trope that you mentioned earlier that I think is so interesting is that Michael's always towing, he's always towing the line.

I think it's always kind of a little tongue in cheek, a little campy. You know what I mean? When he can, I think Thriller has that same thing, right? Where it's just like, this is like theater. And somebody's watching me reminds me of theater.

DJ Sir Daniel: Yeah. Ty, you know, it's funny, the, the song was released in de, um, December 27th of 83. Um, but it's such a Halloween.

Jay Ray: It is.

DJ Sir Daniel: as well. It came out in December, but it became a Halloween classic to me. It's like thriller. Um, somebody is watching me, you know, songs by the cure, all of those things. When I, when I'm putting together a Halloween playlist, those are the things that are going on that Halloween playlist.

Jay Ray: Listen, I, um, and all of this, once again, Michael is doing all of this and he's really, really a Jehovah's witness y'all. Like Michael Jackson is, I promise you going around LA, giving out watchtowers to people. It is fascinating.

DJ Sir Daniel: Hi, can I talk to you about, can I talk to you about the return of Jehovah I just want to come in for a minute.

Jay Ray: can you take it? I would not be able to take it. I'd be like,

yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: because you know, we, cause you know how we do. We stand there at the peephole looking like everybody be quiet. Turn

the down

Jay Ray: Hold on, but then you're like, shh, Michael Jackson is out there.

DJ Sir Daniel: Wait

a minute Is that Michael Jackson?

And somebody is like no I don't care who don't let them in. Don't let them in. And you just, and then you just looking out the window, walk, watching him walk back to his, to his car.

Jay Ray: Right

DJ Sir Daniel: Cause I'm certain he to his his limo. Cause I'm certain he wasn't walking up and down the street.

He just was like being dropped off house to house.

Jay Ray: I wonder if that was true. I also wonder if he was wearing like those glitter socks while he was doing while he was doing this door to door. That would

DJ Sir Daniel: You know what? You know, Michael was also a master of disguise.

Jay Ray: hmm.

DJ Sir Daniel: So he could have been out witnessing in full in disguise. So there's that. So,

Jay Ray: Full prosthetics.

DJ Sir Daniel: full prosthetic, full prosthetics, and he really wanted the message of Jehovah to shine through and not his stardom. So, Hey, could be one of those mysteries that we will never really know, but listen, uh, I enjoyed this conversation about Michael.

And, um, the stuff that he did behind the scenes,

[00:50:36] Closing Remarks and Future Content

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Jay Ray: So thank you all so much for joining us and hanging out for Queue Points. If you can hear our voices, if you can see us, thank you so much. We appreciate you. Hit the subscribe button. If there's a notification bell, go ahead and hit that too. The other thing that we say, if you enjoy Queue Points, you like this show, you thought it was fun, go ahead.

Tell your friends, family, colleagues. We do this. every week. Even if we're not here, we will air another show. So you should make sure, and you should also subscribe to our podcast. So you get notifications when those, uh, episodes come out as well. DJ Sir Daniel, you currently have your series that we are running, um, which is going to release again on Saturday.

So if you tune into the podcast as well, you can also visit our Patreon to see the. Full versions of those conversations. So we're super excited about that. It's called I come alive. So good work on that, sir. Daniel. Like this is a good, good series, uh, talking about, um, uh, actually tell them a little bit about the series, sir, Daniel, what it's about.

Let the people know. Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: of, um, men who, who have experienced, uh, Nightlife in Atlanta, um, gay nightlife in Atlanta in the early eighties, nineties to the early two thousands. It's really a dope history lesson. Um, because I w I just had the question of where did all the clubs go? Where did all the spaces that were black and gay go?

Because they just all of a sudden disappeared. And it launched last week during Atlanta black gay pride. Um, it did very well. People really. Um, click, clicked up on it, but yeah, it's a lot of great conversations and peep just conversations with people who actually lived it. If you're interested, if you love nightlife and you like stories about the past and, you know, and people who lived it.

It's definitely for you. If you're a historian, you like hearing historical, uh, context and you've ever been to Atlanta and you wanted to know how things were back in the days, pre Freaknik, during Freaknik, all of that stuff. Oh, there was a lot of stuff going on that you probably didn't know about, but.

I'm really thankful. Thank you for bringing that up, Jerry. And I hope people enjoy it and that, uh, you pass it around.

Jay Ray: Absolutely. So subscribe. So you can check that out as well. Um, visit our website, Queue Points. com. You can sign up for our newsletter. We appreciate that. And you can shop our store at store. Queue Points. com.

DJ Sir Daniel: Yes. So what do I always say in this life? You have a choice. You can either pick up the needle or you can let the record play. I am DJ sir, Daniel,

Jay Ray: My name is Jay Ray y'all.

DJ Sir Daniel: and this has been Queue Points podcast, dropping the needle on black music history. We'll see you on the next go round. Peace.

Jay Ray: Peace

y'all.

DJ Sir Daniel: butt is mine.

[00:53:36] Closing Theme

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