MTV Unplugged Helped Redefine the New Jack Swing Era

Transcript

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[00:00:00] Intro Theme

[00:00:16] Welcome to Queue Points

Sir Daniel: Greetings and welcome to another episode of Queue Points podcast. I am DJ Sir Daniel

Jay Ray: And my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my governments as Johnnie Ray Kornegay III. And Sir Daniel, we are going into the way back machine, into a time in music history, uh, where we got to watch some of the most popular contemporary artists strip down what they were doing on record and give us these, uh, acoustic style performances.

And it was a whole moment in time

Sir Daniel: It definitely was.

[00:00:57] MTV's Evolution and the Birth of Unplugged

Sir Daniel: At this point, MTV, we've moved into the late '80s, early '90s. Um, I think for historical context, at this point, MTV is the video, um, platform that all the record labels are sending their artists to because at this point, MTV has diversified a lot of their programming. Um, it's not just music videos.

They have live shows. They have different types of programming to make, to keep you tuned into MTV 24 hours a day, which is what they wanted 'cause it's on cable. And, um, also, as I stated, it's the early, it's the late '90s going... It's the late '80s going into the early '90s, and at this point, I think, Jay Ray, we've, the pivotal moment that we can think about is the Milli Vanilli situation where

Jay Ray: exactly it. That's why we needed

Sir Daniel: they caught,

they were caught lip syncing or accused of lip syncing, and it just became a moment of exposure where a lot of artists were like, "Oh, well, that's not us. We can really do the thing. We play instruments, or we can really sing." And so MTV, um, created a program called MTV Unplugged.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: and as Jay Ray said, this was a moment for artists to come and really show off their chops, whether it's playing acoustic instruments, nothing but a guitar, a drum, maybe some keys, and that's it, and the vocals.

Jay Ray: Yeah

Sir Daniel: Well, also MTV is evolving, um, racially as well because at this point, remember in the early days, MTV didn't have any Black, wasn't featuring any Black artists until Michael Jackson kicked in the doors. David Bowie, um, talked to, um, like really sh- um, showed them up and, and, and embarrassed them on television.

Like, "Why don't you have Black artists on

Jay Ray: Right

Sir Daniel: this channel?" And so MTV has evolved. We've got Yo! MTV Raps. We've got, um, some, uh, R&B programming, um, that comes into play here and there. But we've got, um- More artists from the Black community, from the Black music community showing up on MTV on a regular basis.

Hip-hop as a culture, uh, uh, the, is in like full upward trajectory at this point, and so it's, so MTV has no choice but to include programming and tailor programming around Black artists.

Jay Ray: Yeah

Sir Daniel: And one, and one of the complaints, like we could go back to the whole Milli Vanilli thing, and one of the complaints was that, you know, rappers don't really play instruments, and rappers aren't really musicians.

Jay Ray: Yep

Sir Daniel: So a lot of... So hip-hop heard that challenge and said, "Hold my beer. We're going to come and do not just MTV Unplugged, we're going to do Yo! MTV Unplugged."

Jay Ray: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sir Daniel: Yo! MTV, uh, Raps Unplugged.

Jay Ray: mm-hmm

Sir Daniel: Jay Ray, before we, before I let you go, I wanna say, I wanna give, um, s- um, props to Ted Demme,

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm

Sir Daniel: Fab 5 Freddy, Todd One, Dr. Dre and Ed Lover because they, uh, behind the scenes, you know, some of them were front-facing, but behind the scenes they really had to fight for this representation.

So I really wanna give them props, and Ted Demme was, fought for it as well. He, and he was the white guy that helped push it through. So shout out to those and, and rest in peace to Ted Demme.

[00:04:42] Quick Transition

[00:04:43] The Unplugged Concept and Mariah Carey

Jay Ray: Unplugged a very interesting and unique concept for the moment. Um, if we think about the 1980s the early 1990s, everything for the most part had moved electronic in some way, shape, or form. Very keyboard-heavy, drum machines, um, not a, a, a, a lot of, um, actual instruments, uh, in the tr- in the acoustic traditional sense, right?

Sir Daniel: Right

Jay Ray: Unplugged gave, uh, artists the ability to do was to reimagine, these songs in front of this smaller audience. It was a much more intimate crowd. Um, but it also gave them an opportunity, quite frankly, to your point, to show off their chops. Like, can you, can you rock this kinda crowd? And to that point- Um, I, there are so many Unplugged performances that I absolutely love, but when I think of Black MTV Unplugged performances that really, like, made an impact on me and I was like, "Oh, snap," um, Mariah Carey and Trey Lorenz doing I'll Be There

Sir Daniel: Oh yeah

Jay Ray: a moment in time. Now, we should also contextualize this moment for Mariah Carey. This is really key. Mariah Carey is, has become a superstar by the time she does Unplugged, right? Her first album goes crazy. She's now a year later releasing her second album. is in a crystal case, like in terms of how she's being treated, right?

Sir Daniel: Mm-hmm

Jay Ray: And people have questions about can she really do that? Like, is that a thing? That thing that she's doing on the records, can she really do that thing?

Sir Daniel: The Whistle Notes

Jay Ray: The whistle notes and, like, all of that, because Mariah records, she- Mariah's a studio rat. Those records are heavily produced. She loves being in the studio. But can she reproduce it? what we learned in the Unplugged performance was she absolutely could. And

Sir Daniel: rest

Jay Ray: could she reproduce it, she showed us who her influences were, like, through these performances. Like, you clearly got to see, like, Mariah in this way. So even just, uh, her and Trey doing I'll Be There, which was a super interesting choice, unique, but Mariah bodied, and Trey Lorenz bodied, too, and it was, like, not even a thing.

Mariah was like, "No, do that."

Sir Daniel: Juzwiak

Jay Ray: "I need you to do your thing." And it became just, like, such an important hallmark performance of what Unplugged could be. It, it showed Black artists like, oh, if you go here and show what you can do, it'll give you something else. And Mariah got a whole other hit out of this with I'll Be There, but it was from the Unplugged release

Sir Daniel: She sure did. I think, um, I, I wanna say, so there's two things that I wanna harken to as far as like, uh, what really stands out to me as far as MTV Unplugged performances. Um,

[00:08:06] Nirvana and Yo! MTV Raps Unplugged

Sir Daniel: the very first MTV Unplugged performance that really made me sit up and take notice was Nirvana. Nirvana's, um, d- doing their, um, "Smells Like Teen Spirit,"

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: from that al- from those albums, and I think,

Jay Ray: If their

Sir Daniel: I

Jay Ray: had come out, yeah,

Sir Daniel: think the second album had come out then.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: so hearing them do that, and what MTV was great for doing was not only were they playing the actual music videos, but what they would do is they would edit those, um, live, those Unplugged performances and put them in rotation on, on their programming, and you could see, you could watch those, um, live performances over and over again as they came up in programming.

So, you know, Black people, uh, we live for Nirv- Nirvana. We love us a Teen Spirit, and so I absolutely loved that performance. But when M- Yo! MTV Raps Unplugged came along, that was an event, Jay Ray.

Jay Ray: It was

Sir Daniel: That was an event. Um, we, you had LL Cool J, A Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul,

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm

Sir Daniel: the lone female rapper of the group, MC Lyte.

Jay Ray: Yep

Sir Daniel: the only one, and she did "Cappuccino," and I think they, everybody did probably about one song. I think LL Cool J may have been the one that was able to go on a little longer. But LL Cool J's performance really stands out in my mind because at that moment I realized that he was, he was more than just a rapper.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm

Sir Daniel: I think he became, he became fully realized because we had never seen him in that element, and I think nobody ever r- nobody really expected these MCs, these rappers who were used to just having a microphone and a DJ or a DAT to rap to could, one, keep up with a band

Jay Ray: Yeah. Can

Sir Daniel: And

Jay Ray: stay there for a minute? Oh, keep going,

Sir Daniel: absolutely.

Jay Ray: get back to that

Sir Daniel: Certainly, to one, keep up with a band and be in pocket with a band

Jay Ray: Yeah

Sir Daniel: um, and also, um, not rely heavily on being overproduced.

Like,

Jay Ray: Yeah

Sir Daniel: I have-- I can project. I can, I can rap and make you feel it right here in the front row, and you in the nosebleeds, you're gonna feel it too.

Jay Ray: Yeah

Sir Daniel: everybody on that lineup, but with in particular LL Cool J really stands out in those performances and really, I think took, made people sit up and notice about hip-hop even more and really took a rapper seriously.

And I think after that, and we're gonna talk about bands here, you saw a lot more rappers taking bands on the road with them after, after MTV, YonTV, um, Unplugged

Jay Ray: Yep, that's exactly where I wanna spend some time. I think this is such an important moment to kind of spend some time in this history, 'cause you're absolutely right. so interesting about rap music is a culture, uh, as a, as a, as a format, rapping was such a live experience, like when it first begins.

It's a live experience. It is this, this, this MC and this DJ kind of interacting with this crowd that's in front of them, right? And, and just kind of like coming off the dome and doing all this stuff. Um, when rap transitions to a recorded art form, there's no model for doing what they were doing on stage in a studio yet.

Like, that's not a thing. You- a DJ then wasn't able to go in and do what they were doing on stage in a studio. It just wasn't the time for that yet. what rap was when it became a recorded art form was they would have bands that would be replaying these breaks in the studio, right? Because that's how you had to do it then.

They were using the traditional production model of how records were produced in that moment in time, and creating rap records on top of them. So these are, these are bands in the studio playing with rappers rapping, right? the time we get the drum machine- Rap is, uh, its own thing, right? So we no longer need the band in the studio.

Studios are more sophisticated. We're able to kind of do the things that we're able to do, uh, on stage in the studio now. We can sample the way that we can sample. We got this MPC. We're able to do everything that we can do. We don't need a band per se, right? So that's where we are when this happens, right?

So we hadn't seen, this is pre-Digable Planets. This is pre The Roots. This is after Stetsasonic, but Stetsasonic was just like a rare experience in hip-hop. You know what I mean? Where you have this hip-hop band. So could that be something that's commercially viable? And to your point, Sir Daniel, the Yo! MTV Raps Unplugged proved that one, rappers could rock with a band.

One, the band could figure, like, could be in that pocket, 'cause the important thing about hip-hop is the pocket. Like, that drummer has to be able to do that thing repetitively so that rapper can do what they do. But they can interplay, and so this proved that that was possible. loved Lyte's performance in this MTV Unplugged.

First of all, Cappuccino was just made for this environment. Um, shout out to MC Lyte and her storytelling. Like, probably just need to do a show

Sir Daniel: What's a cafe on the West Side?

Jay Ray: Midtown." You know "So I stepped in and I ordered a cup." So it's just such great storytelling. But, um, A Tribe Called Quest, right, who are a new band, right?

They're a new group at the time when MTV Unplugged happens. Um, they are still a four-pack at this f- at this point. And doing, uh, Can I Kick It Live, you know? And of course, sampling, you know, the, the band is playing Walk on the Wild Side,

Sir Daniel: Mm-hmm

Jay Ray: their own. And I think to your point, Sir Daniel, this was the moment when folks figured out like, oh, hip-hop is more than just people

Sir Daniel: Fix that

Jay Ray: and a DJ.

Like, you can have a band, and this is pre bands including DJs. Now it's regular to have a DJ

Sir Daniel: Have both. Yep

Jay Ray: what I'm saying? The DJ is just kind of part of the band like everybody else. But before this happened, that was completely rare, and it's such an important moment in hip-hop history. And you're right, like, LL showed that he was a superstar in that performance

Sir Daniel: He absolutely did. And so when you fast-forward to, that was 1991,

[00:15:15] Insert Transition

[00:15:22] Uptown Records MTV Unplugged

Sir Daniel: when we fast-forward to 1993 in this moment, wow. Uptown Records, it has such a stronghold and has really, um, re- recreate, not recreated, but has, um, reimagined what R&B is and really what could, it could be for the future.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: Because they've ... At that moment, Uptown Records launched the careers of some people that really changed the face of R&B and what R&B sounded like and what R&B looked like.

And so when we talk about the Uptown MTV Unplugged, you're talking about a marriage made in heaven.

Jay Ray: Yeah

Sir Daniel: Because if you look at the M- the Uptown roster by 1993, you've got powerhouses like Heavy D & the Boyz,

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm

Sir Daniel: Jodeci, the legend herself, Mary J.

Blige,

Jay Ray: Father MC, we

Sir Daniel: who

Jay Ray: forget Father MC

Sir Daniel: cannot forget Father MC. And, uh, but this is a very important moment for Mary J. Blige as well.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm

Sir Daniel: like the rappers having to prove that they were more than just people who, who said words on the mic, Mary J. Blige had under- was under a lot of scrutiny as well for her song stylings and her vocal ability.

You

Jay Ray: love that.

Sir Daniel: know I love, I love s- calling somebody a song stylist. And she ... And so this was a very important moment for her as well because by 1993 Mary has ... So What's the 411 is, is a classic record at this point. She's in our hearts. She's our girl, you know, um, squarely in the Black community, a generation. She is, she's clearly our representative.

And so in this moment Mary J. Blige I think is at the forefront to me, and I think that this was a very pivotal moment for her to prove her vocal prowess, her stage presence, all the things that people were picking apart about her as an artist. And so, but we, I mean, we get some serious performances with Yo MTV, not yo, but M- Uptown MTV Unplugged.

I mean crazy. Heavy D...

Jay Ray: Yeah

Sir Daniel: I'm gonna let you talk because I could just, you know me, I could just yap on ad nauseam about this whole thing

Jay Ray: no, no, no. I think i- I want to underscore, um, how important it is, going back to that idea of music had become so electronic.

Sir Daniel: Yes

Jay Ray: swing at its core,

Sir Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Jay Ray: keyboards, drum machines, da, da, da, da, doo. Right? this is Uptown's foundation, right? Um, so this is an opportunity for Andre Harrell and a then young Sean "Puffy" Combs

Sir Daniel: Mm-hmm

Jay Ray: to take their artists show the world, 'cause really what this is is a showcase for the world that this is sellable to white audiences, that white audiences would be interested in seeing this.

So they had to package these artists up. That's why there's such an interesting variety. So we mentioned all of these, like, different types of artists, so but it's all Uptown, right? So they're showing, "Oh, we got something for everybody. You not into Christopher Williams? That's okay, we got a Heavy D. You not into that?

Oh, we got a Jodeci. Oh, we got a Mary. Oh, we got a da, da, da." Right? all of these artists did, think, show up in their, their tr- their fullness, and one of the most important classics that we do get out of this Jodeci. So Jodeci takes Stevie Wonder's Lately, which is a beautiful song

Sir Daniel: Gorgeous

Jay Ray: right? re-imagines it in their own style, being true to what Stevie created, but it is, like, for the artist now. And that song becomes such an important staple on R&B radio. You can still hear Jodeci's version of Lately on R&B radio today because it's so impactful. And we should also mention, Sir Daniel, one, this is the first label-centric MTV Unplugged.

It might be only. I don't know

Sir Daniel: No

Jay Ray: ever did anything quite like this again. we got a full release of this on Uptown as well, so you can still go back and listen to these performances. They repackaged them and released them as, as full releases. And even Lately, Jodeci's Lately, I do think they re-recorded it, so I think there's a, the live version, but then I think there's an in studio

Sir Daniel: A studio version

Jay Ray: But I think it's just really important to underscore that when this happened This wasn't a, a sure bet, you know what I'm saying? Like, they, Andre and Puff had to really work to make sure that this thing was packaged the way it needed to be packaged, and it went off the way it went off in order to work, and it's become one of the most important MTV Unpluggeds, period

Sir Daniel: I think so. And, uh, there's something I wanna go back to really quickly, of a very important point that you made. This s- particularly this, um, Uptown, um, Unplugged, um, uh, combination was very important because we weren't getting a lot of live... Radio wasn't playing a lot of live recordings at the time.

Jay Ray: Mm-mm.

Sir Daniel: And so because of this, um, this collabo between MTV and Uptown, we got live recordings in radio rotation again.

Jay Ray: Yep

Sir Daniel: You know, and there's only a few artists that when you think about it, that radio would play live versions of their tunes or their labels made live versions available to radio for radio to play. So I think that that's something to, to, to, to magnify really quickly just to say, you know what? This was, this was also important to Black radio.

And so that because when you think about it as a listener, if I'm hearing, you know, Jodeci live and, a- and they're singing "Lately," I'm more apt to say, "You know what? When Jodeci comes to my town, my corner of the planet, I'm gonna go see them because according to this, they do the real thing live. And so I'm gonna, I know I'm gonna go and get a great show."

So I think that's super important to radio.

[00:22:36] Quick Transition

[00:22:37] Maxwell's Unplugged

Jay Ray: Unplugged becomes kind of a mainstay in the MTV ecosystem for several years, and to that point of, like, live infiltrating radio, uh, three years later, be four years later, this might've been '97, um, a brand new artist who had released their debut album, uh, Maxwell's Urban Hang Suite, Maxwell got his own Unplugged. And I think what was so unique about this is Maxwell was still really new as

Sir Daniel: Yes

Jay Ray: He had definitely penetrated Black radio. Like, Maxwell was, was winning. Uh, by the time Ascension came out, which was song number two, Maxwell was, like, in there. We was in there with him. But we got something super special with his Unplugged when he did his version of This Woman's Work. Once again, they had the live version, which I think is the, the, the, um, definitive version of

Sir Daniel: Mm-hmm

Jay Ray: but they also have an in-studio version of it as well. But what's so unique about this is, of course, he's taking this, this, um, pop song that's a remake, um,

Sir Daniel: Somebody want me?

Jay Ray: sung by a woman, singing it in his falsetto

Sir Daniel: Baby, he was up there

Jay Ray: up there.

I wonder, I've never seen, uh, Maxwell live. Let us know in the comments when you listen to this if Maxwell does this woman's work, and where is that key? Let us because in 1996 and 1997, he was way up there doing this. But radio picked up thing, and we still hear that once again on, uh, R&B radio today.

Quiet Storm, you're gonna get This Woman's Work by Maxwell

Sir Daniel: Uh, it just dawned on me. This is something s- very special about Maxwell's Unplugged to me. Maxwell's Unplugged was recorded at Brooklyn Academy of Music,

Jay Ray: Shout out

Sir Daniel: which is directly across the street next door to 38 Lafayette, which is Hanson Place Seventh-day Adventist School, which is where a young DJ Sir Daniel attended school from the age of two years old up until 13.

Jay Ray: Wow

Sir Daniel: Brooklyn Academy of Music was so important to us, Jay Ray. I think I may have mentioned it. They would invite us students to come ac- walk across the street and, um, and see performances, and that was such a... tho- those are such impactful moments to me in particular, um, to see live music being performed, to see dance, um, to, to see choreography, to see acting.

I mean, thank God for Brooklyn Academy of Music, and it's still there. Thank God for- Mm-hmm ... opening their doors to us and allowing, you know, these young, these young Black kids, impressionable Black kids to just hold hands, 'cause you know at that age we had to hold hands. Find a partner and hold hands and walk across the street and, um, and to, to go and check out this, um, these performances.

But yeah, I, you know, finding out that Maxwell's Unplugged was performed at Brooklyn Academy of Music really, you know, gave me a little, you know, a little oomph, a little BK pride, which is something that continued later on.

[00:26:21] Insert Transition

[00:26:28] Lauryn Hill's Unplugged

Sir Daniel: I guess we gotta talk about Lauryn Hill's Unplugged.

Jay Ray: do.

Sir Daniel: we have to? Yeah, okay, we do

Jay Ray: Well, well, okay. We do from the perspective of

Sir Daniel: It happened.

Jay Ray: it happened. Honestly, I, I have never heard that thing in full. Um,

Sir Daniel: It's a heavy lift

Jay Ray: it's a heavy lift, but I, I, I do wanna, I do want to mention for those that weren't there, when this release happened, this was before we knew what it entailed because I don't think many people had seen the actual performance. But I remember the double disc release being, this was a big deal in the record store. You know what I'm saying?

Sir Daniel: Oh, yes

Jay Ray: Because it's Lauryn Hill. Lauryn Hill spent 1998 and 1999 conquering the world, and had disappeared after that. So we were expecting different than what we got. And what I think is worth mentioning is that Unplugged was willing to take risks,

Sir Daniel: Mm-hmm

Jay Ray: Lauryn's Unplugged was absolutely a risk.

Um, it didn't pan out commercially, but it did give us a glimpse into what an unraveling of stardom at that time kind of looked like. This was not something we had seen in hip-hop before. I think this is, this was the first time where we were like, "Yo, happened to Lauryn?" And we got a whole record that chronicled it.

Sir Daniel: I think that that's, um That sentiment right there. Yo, what hap- that could be a T-shirt. Yo, what happened to Lauryn? Literally was echoed from, from hood to hood across America because we were all looking like... I think people had just been so wrapped up in the whole, um, Doo Wop That Thing of it all, and the joy and the happiness of Zion and, and all that upliftment and, you know, she had...

Wait, where's her locks? Where's the, you know, she's not, she's not done up. Well, yeah, of course she had a baby. Okay, we can understand that. Is she pregnant again or... You

Jay Ray: Right

Sir Daniel: there's all of this stuff, all this real-life stuff that's happening to this woman. And, you know, in true human fashion, as consumers, we're selfish.

We want Doo Wop That Thing. We

Jay Ray: like what is

Sir Daniel: we want that thing that you... What is this? Uh, this is not bringing me joy. This is not happiness. And it, it reflected definitely, I remember I was, 'cause this was in 2001, so I was definitely working at HMV, and I remember those boxes and boxes of that CD just kept sitting there.

People, it was just not something that people were, um, drawn to and wanted to relive over and over again. I remember I got a copy, took it home, and I mean, I was just, I was exhausted after listening to it. It was just... And then, oh, and this is something that we had not experienced either. She was breaking down and crying

Jay Ray: Yeah

Sir Daniel: in the middle of the performance.

I don't think we've ever experienced that. Our generation

Jay Ray: No

Sir Daniel: has ever experienced seeing an artist, um, have a real-life emotional breakdown on television or, and have it recorded so that we could re- hear it over and over again. And I think that, that part of made it unlistenable to a lot of people as well

Jay Ray: Y- you know, it's so interesting, sir, that I hadn't thought of that in that way. But, I do think it is an interesting artistic choice, and I'm sure Lauryn had, had a piece of this, there were a lot of false starts on this as well. Like, she would start ... 'Cause Lauryn, she wasn't a proficient, uh, guitar player, uh, at the time, and so there was just a lot of false starts, so the song would almost be whatever, whatever. most musicians would be like, "All of that gotta go. cut that whole beginning part out. I need this part, whatever, fade here," you know what I'm saying? 'Cause I start crying, and I don't want that in the thing. W- that's in the double disc. It's a double disc.

Sir Daniel: It's a double disc

Jay Ray: double disc, that mean, disc could hold up to, like, 70 minutes of music.

This is a double

Sir Daniel: Ooh. And you know, you bring up something very important. There's a lot of money at stake here too, because this is, the label has, um, is putting up money, musicians have to be paid. MTV is putting up its cameras, its lights, its Times S- they've got Times Square, so the venue Times Square has to be, you know, taken care of in some form of f- financial form as well.

And so she can't. This is not something that you can go back and say, "You know what, guys? I'm off t- I was a little off tonight. Let's just all come back tomorrow night and we'll do it again." That's not happening. That could not happen.

Jay Ray: it

Sir Daniel: And this is it. And so we literally, if you, if you're interested, you can hear in real time what happened to this woman musically, and the, and the reason why people were kind of like...

It started this conversation around the, the validity of this star, this, the superstar that we had created as a, as an audience. You know what I'm saying? It started that conversation a- and, and people still to this day have this conversation of, "Oh, y'all give Lauryn Hill too much. She only had that one record."

And it's like, is she really that dope? And it started that con- th- that's the kink in her armor, and it started, I believe, um, at the release of the, her un- MTV Unplugged

Jay Ray: You know, um,

[00:32:38] Dream Unplugged Performances That Never Were

Jay Ray: as we wind down, one, I have a question for you that

Sir Daniel: Mm-hmm

Jay Ray: I'm, I'm curious about, but as we wind down, I'm thinking about this idea, like L- the Lauryn Unplugged probably the most raw really does live up to the idea of what Unplugged was supposed to be, right? This kind of very authentic experience of this artist interacting with their, their work, interacting with the audience and the musicians that are with them. And z- uh, say what you want about the Lauryn Unplugged album, which I still have not heard and I probably will not hear in this lifetime. I'm just not, you know... But it's very, it was authentic to where she was at the time. And I would be curious, um, she probably is good with it. I don't know if anyone's ever asked her, like, to reflect on it, because now we're at the 25th anniversary of it,

Sir Daniel: Yeah

Jay Ray: am curious to know what she thinks.

And maybe that's a question we'll just ask on social media, like, directly, like, "Yo, Lauryn, like, it's 25 years since Unplugged. Like, what do you think, like, what do you, do you feel about that body of work today?" Let's, let's

Sir Daniel: As it sit, as it sits in your discography and your body of work. Yeah

Jay Ray: So here's my question, Sir Daniel.

Sir Daniel: Mm-hmm

Jay Ray: Who is one, what is one or two Unpluggeds that you wish happened?

Sir Daniel: Hmm

Huh. I think we really should have gotten, we should have gotten a MTV Unplugged Invincible I know we got the ti- the, the, the 2001 performance and all that, but I, I know there was a lot of stuff going on, but I really do think maybe that that could have pushed things over, pushed the, that record, that body of work a little further

Jay Ray: yeah. Me and you are in the exact same space. If there's any, if there's the, the one Unplugged that I wish happened, and I actually don't wish it was Invincible, but I think it should've been released at the time.

Sir Daniel: Mm-hmm

Jay Ray: truly do wish Michael Jackson just went on stage and did Michael Jackson history of songs. Like, can you imagine a stripped down Billie Jean and a stripped down Man in the Mirror, where Michael Jackson is not being Michael Jackson? He's j- it's just him and the band and that voice. Baby, I don't need you to dance. You can tiptoe around that stage a little bit, but what I really need you to do is we just need to have a conversation because m- that voice and those songs are so timeless.

So I'm with you. I wish that in 2001, ahead of the release that, of Invincible, that Michael Jackson had done an Unplugged, a true Unplugged, where it's like, "No, Michael, you're not doing none of that. You literally going, we give you this stool, and we give you a microphone, and this band. Work it out, child." I wish we'd gotten that.

Sir Daniel: can I have one more?

Jay Ray: Of course, yeah, you can, 'cause I have another one too. I wonder if we're on the same page again. Ooh.

Sir Daniel: I, so I kinda wish we could, and we did kind of get it, but I kinda wish that there was a overlap or a, a collaboration between Sisters in the Name of Rap and MTV Unplugged because we saw what MC Lyte could do with a band.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm

Sir Daniel: At this point, Salt-N-Pepa has a all-girl band that they were on tour with from DC, a go-go band.

I can't remember their name right now. For, was it For Pleasure or something like that? A Pleasure or something like that. Anyway, so, so MC Lyte, Queen Latifah, who is also, um, touring with a band and doing stuff with a band, I think, and they were, for all intents and purposes, like the mainstays of female rapdom at the time.

Like the hierarchy, it was them. They were the ones that were constantly on MTV. Um, we'd seen them perform. So I think, you know, and this is, and this is clearly a, a Sir Daniel moment here. I think that would have really done well and gone down in, um, history as a great moment, um, of an unplugged version filmed by MTV, 'cause they really could do a great job of these pioneering women that really would've lasted still to this day, and we probably could've gotten some really great, um, live performances to play on the radio, like we mentioned the other ones of the past.

And, uh, yeah. So yeah, that would be my other one

Jay Ray: I love that. I love that. Um, my, my other one, and this is a dream, um, one, would've been an official The Roots, Bahamadia, and Gang Starr Unplugged.

Sir Daniel: Ooh

Jay Ray: That would be so crazy. Like, just think of, like, the power of, like, having that go down. You got the jazz inflection of Gang Starr. You have, with Bahamadia, right? Bahamadia's kind of the center because she's bridging Gang Starr and The Roots together. You know what I mean? that would've went crazy

Sir Daniel: That would've gone, gone dumb. Yep.

Jay Ray: Yeah,

Sir Daniel: beats, unplugged versions of Preemo beats. That would've been something.

Jay Ray: Crazy,

Sir Daniel: Listen, well, we can't even say MTV call us 'cause, well, there's no

Jay Ray: We

Sir Daniel: more MTV.

Jay Ray: unfortunately. No more

Sir Daniel: Yeah.

Jay Ray: Um

Sir Daniel: before we get out of here though, we gotta, we gotta take it back to Brooklyn

Jay Ray: Yeah. So

Sir Daniel: the last, was this the final

Jay Ray: It wasn't the final Unplugged. There were, there were Unplugs after that. Um, but it really did, um,

[00:38:54] Jay-Z Unplugged

Jay Ray: Jay-Z as just an interesting artist who, um... Here's the thing. For all the things we wanna say about Jay-Z, um, and his dominance as a pop culture figure, Jay-Z is also a squarely an artist.

Sir Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Jay Ray: And, um, just speaking of The Roots, right, him pairing with Questlove to pull together the band for the official Jay-Z Unplugged, is a moment in time. So you get this overlap of Philly and Brooklyn happening, and it is one of the best Unplugs that they ever released, 'cause, you know, it was, everybody was firing on all cylinders for that joint

Sir Daniel: Yes. Now, noticeably missing from this Unplugged performance, because I think what had Jay come off of where Mary J. Blige was featured on heavily on, like, "Living in the City," um, and some other records. It was Ma- like... Well, Mary had also appeared on Reasonable Doubt, uh, for some of his biggest hit, hits, "Can't Knock the Hustle."

So he, people were expecting to see Mary, but boys and girls, singing, um, lead vocals was one Jaguar Wright, who at the time, you, we, we, she did her big one.

Jay Ray: Like, she was the next up. Like, we, we looking at Jag, she's that girl. She's about to be

Sir Daniel: she sat in there. She, she s- she stood up in Mary's boots

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm

Sir Daniel: and sang her face off, and she put her spin on it because you can't listen to that, uh, that Unplugged version of Jay-Z and not think, "Damn, Jaguar Wright is really putting down some good pieces of singing on this, um, on this project."

And so you did your big one on that one, Jaguar.

Jay Ray: you know, my how things change. Um,

Sir Daniel: My, how they have changed

Jay Ray: Y'all, but, you know,

[00:41:01] Outro and Sign Off

Jay Ray: thank y'all so much for hanging out with us. Like, MTV Unplugged was such an important, um, it was, it was, it was, uh, important TV. it was a way that you could see some of your favorite artists in, um, a context that they weren't normally in. And, um, shout-out to them for, for leaning into it. But, um, and we appreciate y'all for hanging out with us as we, we went down memory lane. What's one of your favorite MTV Unplugged performances? Let us know in the dis- uh, in the comments. And, um, so if you can hear our faces and see our voices, subscribe, share the show with your friends, family, your colleagues, because if you love Queue Points, chances are they will love Queue Points as well. Visit our website at queuepoints.com. That is the, the foundation for all things Queue Points. You can listen to our old, our, our archive shows. You can become a member, you, which gives you all types of perks, uh, and really dope stuff that you get. Um, and you can read our blog, and then make sure that you go ahead and shop our store at store.queuepoints.com.

We appreciate y'all. We love y'all

Sir Daniel: We certainly do. And like we say at the end of every episode, in this life you have a choice. You can either pick up the needle or you can let the record play. I am DJ Sir Daniel

Jay Ray: And my name is Jay Ray y'all

Sir Daniel: And this is Queue Points podcast, dropping the needle on Black music history. We will see you on the next go-round. Peace

Jay Ray: Peace, y'all.

[00:42:27] Outro Theme