Dr. York, The Cult of NatureBoy & the Music Behind the Harm

Transcript

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[00:00:00] Disclaimer

Jay Ray: Before we drop the needle on this one, we want to check in with you first. This episode goes somewhere real. We're discussing the stories of two men who used music, community, and charisma to cause serious harm. including child sexual abuse and sexual violence. We say the truth plainly in this episode because the people who were hurt deserve that.

So if you're in a tender place right now, no judgment, save this one for when you're ready. If you or someone you know needs support the National Sexual Assault Hotline, also known as RAINN, is available at one eight hundred six five six four six seven three or at R-A-I-N-N .org. Okay, let's get into it.

[00:00:53] Intro Theme

[00:01:10] Welcome To Queue Points

Sir Daniel: Greetings and welcome to another episode of Queue Points podcast. I am DJ Sir Daniel.

Jay Ray: And my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my government as Johnnie Ray Kornegay III. And uh, sir Daniel, um. So the past couple of weeks we have been bombarded if you are anywhere near YouTube, about the release of the Cult of the Nature Boy documentary, which is out now, and. What's so interesting about this, and we're gonna talk about it today, is there's a whole music overlap to this conversation as well that we wanted to explore, not just present day, but past history as well.

Sir Daniel: Listen, I'm just gonna preface this conversation by saying. I love, first of all, I love documentaries, but more than that, I love a cult documentary. I, I love the, the, the, the, the, the creepy, um, music that they use throughout, throughout the documentary, the.

Jay Ray: reenactments.

Sir Daniel: The reenactments, the, the tension building sound effects, all of that stuff is just Chef's kiss.

For me, it started out, I started out as a kid watching, um, I don't know why I was watching this as a kid, but Helter Skelter, which was

Jay Ray: I remember Helter skelter.

Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: Movie based on Charles Manson and I just remember being completely enthralled by this whole story. And of course following those stories then as a, uh, a person of, um, whose family descends from Guyana and have always, always heard about the Jonestown massacre. Uh, um, related to Jim Jones and every time, here's how I know it. Every time you tell my mother would tell people where she's from and she would say, oh, yes, I'm from Guyana. And you can always tell a person's age or, or how, you know, somebody that followed the story. They always get that look like Jim Jones.

Yes. The place where Jim Jones took all those people. To their death, but, you know, um, but it's funny, there's always a, a, a through line with cults and cult leaders. Jay Ray, that is a, is a direct connection to music. And specifically we're gonna talk about, because we are a Black music podcast, we're gonna talk about hip hop and some R&B.

What I find with a lot of people who get. aligned with cults and cult leaders is that they're always looking. They're somewhere in their life. They're looking for something to ground them and something to have a connection with. And these cult leaders provide that they pro. And because these cult leaders have this charisma and they know the exact right things to say.

They're oftentimes, you know, people that have the power to, to gather these people and have them follow them, and we have a lot of that within popular modern music, very charismatic figures. Who speak to, especially when it comes to teenagers who speak to them, who speak to their, their plight as it were, and their need for a connection to something bigger than them.

And we see that all the time, a lot in hip hop music.

[00:04:52] Transition

[00:04:58] The Cult-Music Connection: Nature Boy, Carbonation, and How Music Moves People

Jay Ray: I was not familiar with the deep work of Nature Boy and Carbonation, but I was tangentially familiar with the music of Nature Boy and Carbonation because, I was really into SoundCloud.

SoundCloud was the place where you could go and you could hear like a lot of new music and, uh, people with playlists over there, people would just create. And so as you were listening to different playlists, you would hear a lot of unique things. One of the, uh. Uh, folks that would show up was Nature Boy, nature Boy's name was not that at the time.

It was, uh, I would see it under three God Productions, right? Which is very much a, you know, you know, Black pro, Black sort of name that you would kind of see, you know what I mean? Like out there. So it wasn't surprising to me, what I found interesting is. It wasn't for me, but it wasn't bad. You know what I'm saying?

Like, I could see why the music of this person, um, would end up on a playlist. I didn't learn until later after, you know, uh, everything. We learned everything about carbonation, how a lot of the members of carbonation considered themselves musicians. But I think it's important that we take a step back as we jump into this just to kind of ground folks, uh, in what.

This documentary kind of is. Um, so Eligio Bishop. Uh, started carbonation somewhere in 2016 and it kind of went through. Um, it's still going now, honestly, apparently there are folks who are still doing the work of, um, Eligio Bishop today. Um, but he is of course. Um, locked up and he will be locked up for life.

I believe it's a life sentence, but I, I think what's interesting, so I've only watched one of these episodes and what I find most interesting about it is, yes, there are reenactments, but because. Eligio Bishop or Nature Boy documented so many things because they were online on their Nature Boy tv.

We're watching actual footage from them, so we don't even need to reconstruct a lot of these moments. We just need to contextualize the moments. And what I found, uh, so far watching this is the folks who are former members who are part of the documentary are doing a really good job of talking about how they got to where they got to, but then they're able to pull exact moments from footage that these people are speaking to and that I've not really seen in a documentary before.

Sir Daniel: So you have more context for carbonation than I do because I didn't know anything about this until. Things started to fall apart and the law got involved and people started getting locked up when it hit the mainstream media. That's when I heard about it. I do, however, remember when I was working, um, at a drop in sensor for, for youth experiencing homelessness, one of the young men that, um, I encountered there was telling me we had a studio.

At this, at the, um, drop in center. So that was very attractive to the young people because a lot young people love to express themselves through music. And there was one in particular, and now that I think back up on it out and looking at him and the way he presented it. It was giving carbonation because he, he was, he was locked in.

I had no idea who this person was that he kept referring to. Nature Boy, this Nature boy that, but he was completely locked in, which again speaks to the power of an Eligio Bishop, of a Jim Jones, of the person that we are going to speak of. And just moments, moments that, um, can have an effect on these young people because this is a young person that is experiencing homelessness.

So he's his life. He's going through a traumatic experience. There are a lot of these young people. Um. Were really disenchanted with America, with the United States because at the time we were witnessing, um, the, the, uh, the after effects of Ferguson. Um, we were also witnessing George Floyd, Sandra Bland.

All of those murders were happening in front of our faces in real time, and America was just. Cooking. We were in a cauldron pot, and then the occupant of the White House was, um, was elected and, um, put into the White House. And so the world was in chaos and complete chaos. And like I said earlier, this is prime.

Um, soil for a person who has the country's being led by a cult of personalities. So why not have your own spinoff and, and people are so disenfranchised with what this country is going through. You offer something that is, so, you offer paradise basically.

Jay Ray: That's really what it was. And you know what he was offering this Black utopia and, and you know, this is something that we haven't mentioned. Um, both of us were, you know, you are in Atlanta now. I was living there at the time. Eligio Bishop was based in Atlanta, so there are actually folks that I know who met him in Atlanta because he was moving throughout Atlanta in space, um, before kind of, uh, carbonation became like a, a thing that was codified.

So, um, I think it's, it's important for us to remember. Not only, of course, you know, folks using music as a way to move people to uh, uh, to whatever belief it is, but also that these are also real people that. Before, uh, uh, the cult came to be. Were kind of collecting folks along the way, um, because this, this type of, um, of, uh, charisma doesn't just show up, right?

[00:11:41] Dr. Malachi York: From Civil Rights Brooklyn to Cult Architect

Jay Ray: It's something that typically folks who, who become cult leaders in this way, uh. Have, and, and so we wanted to take this story and kind of go back in time because there is a musician who was active in the seventies and the eighties who ultimately went on to, uh, not only lead a very active cult. But is also serving a, a life prison sentence for some heinous crimes.

And so the, the, the work of Nature Boy doesn't exist in a vacuum. There are other folks that have kind of done similar things in the past, and one of the folks that we wanted to bring up was Dr. York. Um, and Dr. York went by a number of names, um, but Malachi, Z York and several names, but, uh, Dr. York, um, before.

After, rather, after being Dr. York and being a musician, founded the Nuwaubian Nation, um, which ended up in Georgia actually. So started in Brooklyn and made its way to Georgia. And, um, that is a very interesting and challenging story that we're gonna share.

Sir Daniel: So it is funny that you mention the music connection with, uh, Dr. York. I had no idea. I heard about, heard about Dr. York, but I had no idea that he actually produced one of my favorite songs. That was actually, I guess you would consider it a novelty song because it was an answer record

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: to new editions.

Um, Mr. Telephone Man by a quartet of young ladies who at the time were called petite and they released a song Jay Ray called um, he's so fine. And they were speaking directly about the members of New Edition and each of them would like talk about the, uh, their favorite member of New Edition in their own rap.

And then they would sing about it. And it was, it was a cutesy kind of record. Um, I think it came out in 86, 87, around there.

You never heard from them them again until the early nineties when they resurfaced as ex-girlfriend, who you all know of from, um, uh, why can't you come home?

Jay Ray: mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: And other songs that were produced by Brooklyn's own full force But right now, uh, Jay Ray, give him a rundown, a little history behind Dr. York. Dr. Malachi.

Jay Ray: Yeah, so, um, focusing on the, well, first of all, the history of Dr. York is, is kind of fascinating. I will say this. Um, Dr. York, um, began preaching in Brooklyn, um, uh, during the Black Power Movement actually. And, he started to combine, uh, elements of, , the Morris Science Temple, the Nation of Islam, uh, the nation of Gods, and Earths.

Uh, into kind of its own thing. And that's kind of how, uh, Dr. York, and so this is in the, the late sixties and the early seventies, so that's how far back this goes. But Dr. York also interestingly, had this very vibrant music career. So he was known as a session musician, but ended up.

Founding a, a studio, uh, called Passion Studios. Um, had a couple of of record labels, so York's Records, and then Passion Records. I think the Petite album came out on York's records, actually, or it may have been rereleased on, on, on passion records. But, um, he himself in the mid 1980s as well, started to release music.

[00:15:52] York's Cultural Fingerprints: Doo-Wop, Hip Hop, and the Zulu Nation

Jay Ray: Music that also sounded like doo-wop in a lot of ways. So it was typically, uh, very male centered, but it would be like these, uh, lush vocals and harmonies, and that's kind of what he was doing. Lots of, lots of, uh, slow jams and ballads. But what's interesting is that. He was doing all of this. And of course because he had the studio, he was interacting with a lot of, uh, other musicians, rappers at the time. And so Dr. York also did influence a lot of folks who were in hip hop at the time, one of which being Afrika Bambaataa. So the, the teachings of, of Dr.

York that he was doing also did influence, uh, some of the ways that the Universal Zulu Nation, um, was also formed. So not only was this, this man a. Musician, of course he was also preaching, and those teachings influenced a lot of rappers of the day. So, uh, you will see pieces of the work of Dr. York, they, they've shown up over the years, and not just musical ways, but just in the ways of some of the folks in hip hop interacting and moving.

So, um. It's an interesting, interesting history. It gets really dark in a moment, but it's, it's, it's a lot there.

Sir Daniel: Yeah, I think that's when I became aware of who he was and it made the timeline, makes sense that if he was a preacher in the sixties and the seventies, that a lot of the people that you and I grew up listening to probably would've had. Um, some direct connection or influence from this man, including like when Jay-Z and Jaz O first hit the scene as the originators.

They, you know, some of his imagery was in their video. And so, um, I know he also influenced, uh, mob Deep.

There's quite a few people that, um, show up. Their names are kind of attached to him at some point. I'm not surprised because we're, we are talking about Black liberation, um, Black power, um, the, some mysticism thrown in there of course,

And I can see why people flocked or would flock to that kind of messaging. Messaging and would want, again, we're talking about. Crack era, uh, HIV epidemic, the, the crumbling reaganomics, the crumbling economics. New York looks like, you know, a, an atomic bomb went off in certain places where most, mostly Black and brown people live.

So it made sense that as we're seeing the rise of hip hop, which is the voice of the young people. We're seeing that ascension happening along with this ascension of people looking for answers and looking for someone to guide them, which is where we end up at some point in Eatonton, Georgia.

[00:19:04] Transition

[00:19:12] The Nuwaubian Nation: Building a Black Utopia in Georgia

Jay Ray: In the 1990s, uh, uh. Dr. York moved the community. um, They had a compound essentially in Georgia that included pyramids, that included, um, uh, uh, statues of sphinxes and gods.

They were all built by the followers on this property in Georgia. So this was not a, a small. Operation. This was a major compound in Georgia. Had you heard about this story at all?

Sir Daniel: So I heard, I heard about it after, or it became more after his arrest. It became more prominent then because it was all over the news. But I think what really caught my attention when looking back is that I was. I was associated with people with a producer that was working with people that were actually a part of this community

And if memory serves me correctly, all of these things were happening around the same time. That, um, OutKast was blowing up and remember when the, um, the at ATLien album dropped a lot of that same imagery with the pyramids and everything, and the aliens is.

It is coincides with what the followers of the Nuwaubian nation were studying and were a part of. So that kind of started incubating here in Georgia and they had, when you go out to someplace like Eatonton, Georgia and you get enough land where you can. Be out there, um, kind of isolated from eyes, the law and whatnot.

You know, certain things can go down when you are left to, you know, rule on your own.

[00:21:09] Arrest, Conviction, and the Warning Signs We All Must Heed

Jay Ray: I know that we mentioned early on that this much like the Eligio Bishop story gets dark, the Dr.

York Star story gets quite dark, so Dr. York was arrested in May of 2002, along with his wife. I. And I am gonna read these charges very matter of factly. This is what it is he was charged with. Or they were charged with more than 100 counts of sexually molesting dozens of children, some as young as four years old.

State prosecutors apparently reduced that from over a thousand potential cases, uh, because they felt like the jury just wouldn't believe the magnitude of it. So he ended up being convicted by a jury in 2004 on multiple counts of child sexual abuse as well as a rico. So, um, he was sentenced to a sentenced to 135 years in federal prison with more than 70 of those years, uh, stemming directly from racketeering, uh, and financial crimes under the RICO statute.

Um, so he is still, um, in prison. Um, and that it's an awful story. Um, that once again reminds us of what can, what, what harm can happen with someone who is a manipulator. Um, and. People who are looking and searching for something get attached, you know, because of the way that this person, what this person is teaching and the way that they teach.

And, um, it's just a reminder of how important it is to be mindful of, um. Those who we follow and how we move throughout the world. Um, because I didn't, like I said, I didn't learn about this until much later, and it was like, what? How is this possible?

Sir Daniel: I'm wondering Jay Ray, now. a lot of people are, they're highly upset and they're pointing at people within our community that they're highly upset with because of the situation we're in now, I'm starting to wonder. Because of people's disenchantment with this country still,

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: I'm wondering if there is going to be, if we will see the rise of someone else now

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Sir Daniel: come along and to, you know, to, to try and offer people some form of hope.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: And if nothing, I think what you said should is a warning. Also to the rest of us. Like, listen, things are tough right now and there's going probably going to be other people who are going to be vying for your attention

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: and in hopes that you will follow their. Their lead in hopes that you, you know, will probably sell you a dream of paradise, like a nature boy and who may come with some really good music at, at at the same time, or offer you the opportunity to platform your music and if you are a musician, singer, whatever.

Jay Ray: Mm.

Sir Daniel: I think these are things that we need to be aware of and to just be cognizant of. Okay. I know things are tough right now. Let's just be mindful of who comes along offering solutions immediately and just really take the time to listen to things, listen to the language that they're, that they're speaking with, and just, just put some thought into it.

'cause the cult of personality is what led us to where we are now. And so I think these are. These are great lessons. People like the Nature Boys, the Dr. Malachi Yorks, that we could look at to kind of see what we can look out for, um, when it comes to, you know, people that are vying that are saying that they can lead us to the right path or lead us to paradise.

[00:25:31] Closing

Jay Ray: Absolutely. There's that, um, classic quote. Who is it from, from, uh, Maya Angelou. Uh, who says, when people show you who they are, believe them. You ha pay attention, um, for your sake and the sake of your children, the sake of your family. I think it's incredibly important. And listen, we talk about this a lot on this show.

Music has the power to heal. Music also has the power to harm. Pay attention to those frequencies. If there's something in a song that don't feel right. You can turn that song off and you can acknowledge like, I dunno about that. There was something in that that just didn't sit where I needed it to sit.

Right. Pay attention to those things because we have so much of that innate with us, right? As someone who loves a, a dance and a dj, I could tell when the DJ is having a good night or a bad night. Based on how they play, what they play, and like what journey they are taking me on. Is this a journey to a place where I wanna go, or is this a journey that, you know what, I'm gonna cut this night out early.

Right? So I. Just pay attention to it and realize that, uh, a carbon nation does not happen in a vacuum. There have been other carbon nations, uh, that have existed over time. And uh, yeah. We just have to be, we have to be mindful. Yeah.

Sir Daniel: I think you hit the nail on the head. Just basically mind the energy

Jay Ray: Mind the energy.

Yep.

Sir Daniel: and. um pay Attention to your instincts. Your instincts are never wrong.

Jay Ray: Yep. Yep. Well, y'all, thank y'all so much for tuning into this episode of Queue Points. Uh, we appreciate y'all. If you can see our faces and hear our voices, go ahead and hit the subscribe button. Uh, share the show with your friends, family, and colleagues. Did you know about Dr. York? Um, did you know about his music?

And, and that whole part of his career and know that story, let us know in the comments. Um, were you, um, a follower of, or are you a follower of, of, uh, carbonation and nature? Boy, let us know that in the comments as well. Um. Visit our website@queuepoints.com. Uh, there you can check out a lot of our, all of our archive episodes and there's a lot there for you to take in.

You can become a member. It keeps the lights on here in Queue Points land. You can shop our store@store.queuepoints.com and over on Substack you could get some additional uh, content. We appreciate y'all. We love y'all.

Sir Daniel: Absolutely. And like I always say in this life, you have a choice. You can either pick up the needle or you could let the record play. I am DJ Sir Daniel.

Jay Ray: And my name is Jay Ray.

Sir Daniel: And this is Queue Points podcast, dropping the needle on Black music history. We will see you on the next go round piece.

Jay Ray: Peace, y'all.

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