Father of A Movement: Clinton "CeeJay" Jolliffi

Episode Transcript

*DISCLAIMER: Transcripts are created using AI, and may not accurately represent the content exactly as presented. Transcripts are provided as a courtesy to our listeners who require them.

[00:00:00] Disclaimer

---

DJ Sir Daniel: The views, thoughts, and

opinions expressed are the speaker's own and do not represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of Queue Points

[00:00:05] Intro Bumper

---

DJ Sir Daniel: Welcome to I Come Alive: Stories of Black Gay Atlanta Nightlife. I am your host, DJ Sir Daniel. This series strives to tell the stories of Atlanta's gay nightlife from the perspective of the people who lived it. For this episode, the category is - "Pioneer." Meet Clinton Jolliffi- CeeJay to those that know him well.

There was a time when only certain body types were desirable if you were on the scene in Black gay Atlanta until the college student from Detroit turned the world upside down by creating spaces for fat boys to dance and to be even seen as sexually desirable. These are father Clinton's stories. Enjoy the show.

[00:00:55] Introduction and Guest Welcome

---

DJ Sir Daniel: The guest for this episode means the world to me actually.

He and his business partner, Brandon gave me my first gig. DJ for their annual big dogs, winter white party. Then I went on to DJ their annual labor day, white parties for almost 10 for about 10 years. And that experience gave me the chops and the confidence to continue DJing and becoming a cultural commentator.

But it's not about me right now. I want to give it up for, for this gentleman affectionately known as CJ and known as father to quite a few, but please welcome Clinton Joe Liffey to this episode. How are you doing CJ?

Ceejay: I'm doing pretty good, man. How about yourself?

DJ Sir Daniel: I am wonderful.

before we go any further, please. Cause you, things have changed in the past year or so. Please give the audience your full ballroom title and

Ceejay: status.

[00:02:06] CJ's Ballroom Journey

---

Ceejay: I've been in ballroom scene about 23 years now, 24 years now. Um, started my ballroom career in Detroit, Michigan. I helped. Start the ballroom scene there. Actually me and a few quite a few other guys and we just you know We found out about ballroom and we said hey, let's start a house Um, you know, we all started different houses, but we all still you know, we were friends So we just competed on the ballroom floor.

Um, i moved to atlanta to continue My ballroom career and you know, I started houses. I did dig. I did a lot a lot in ballroom I've walked in one in every major city almost every ballroom city in this country Um, you know, and I built a pretty good legacy. I have kids that are really good in ballroom to this day um, so yeah, I love it, but um My title is let me see if I can get it together is um, I am icon, legendary, pioneer, hall of famer, Clint London.

DJ Sir Daniel: Ladies and gentlemen, you heard what the man said, give it up for him. Legendary, icon status, all of that good stuff. Um, you mentioned that you're from Detroit.

[00:03:09] Moving to Atlanta

---

DJ Sir Daniel: So what originally brought you to Atlanta?

Ceejay: Um, a relationship, believe it or not. It was a relationship.

That had brought me to Detroit. I met someone and oddly enough. I met them in dc I didn't even meet them in Detroit or Atlanta. I met them in dc Um during prior weekend was having a ball. I was with my friends. He was with his friends um Yeah, and we kind of you know, we kind of was checking each other out the whole weekend but then um He got one of his friends to come up to me and you know, the rest is history And then like a year later it was like hey, um You One of us got to move and at the time it made way it made more it made more sense to me moving to Atlanta To him moving to Detroit, you know career wise So yeah That's took the leap and said why not and jumped up and packed all my things and moved to Atlanta of course, all my friends thought I was crazy, but What year was

DJ Sir Daniel: this

Ceejay: I moved to Atlanta in 2001.

DJ Sir Daniel: tell me about, or tell us about your first experience stepping into a gay club in Atlanta.

[00:04:16] First Gay Club Experience

---

Ceejay: Well, okay to be honest we can rewind a little bit when I moved to Atlanta wasn't my first time at a gay club in Atlanta My first time I was visiting Atlanta. Um, I because I went to Clark My first time was when I was going to Clark,

DJ Sir Daniel: right?

Ceejay: I was almost dating the guy And you don't be People don't think this is some kind of trend with me. I was dating a guy, uh, we broke up. Um, they transferred schools to Clark. We got back together. I transferred schools to Clark, but the only thing about that situation was, um, he was a pretty jealous guy and he did not want me to, um, experience the gay lifestyle in Atlanta.

He was like very, very, very against it. Um, but of course me being a grown person, um, I went anyway. Um, it caused a lot of rifts because I wanted to see you know I wasn't looking for a person or anybody like that. It just um, I wanted to see I was Very I was kind of knee deep in the um black gay community in detroit.

Um, so i'm going to atlanta Yeah, I wanted to see what it was all about. I was a lot younger than of course But I wanted to see what it was all about. Um,

so I was early 20s. And which

DJ Sir Daniel: club was it?

Ceejay: Then it was, it became 708.

But back then it was called Loretta's I believe. Uh huh, uh

DJ Sir Daniel: huh. I think

Ceejay: it was the Loretta's, the Ritz, something like that. I went to two clubs. Okay, Loretta's, I went to two clubs, the Loretta's and the Palace. Those were the two clubs I went to while I was there, um, when I was in school. Um, and it was a different experience because, well, number one, I didn't know anybody, that was the biggest part.

And we shared, we lived off campus and we shared a, um, a four bedroom house, not that far from campus. And two of the people that roomed with us was some of his friends, and it was an older gay guy. And he partied all the time. And that's what got me to go out, because he would always ask me, then I always say no, trying to appease, you know, the homie.

Um, but, it was one time, I said, you know what, yeah, I'm gonna go with you. And yeah, and I went out with him I had a ball I had a really good time Um, because like I said, it was a new experience Um, but then we like I said that caused such a strong riff in between me and my dude So it was one of those things where yeah, i'm ready to go back home and uh, yeah, and that was that however When I moved to atlanta it was years later,

DJ Sir Daniel: right?

Ceejay: It was a different experience because I moved to atlanta I was 28, 28 or 29 when I moved in 2001, I was, I'm sorry, I was at 28 or 29. And that was a slightly different experience because I remember for the first time going to Bulldogs. That was my first bar I went to when I came here to live permanently.

And um, that was an experience, like I said, it was, it was packed, it was crowded. And it was, it was nice. It was hype. I went out with my dude and his friends and it was, it was a good time. Um, but back then the city itself was on fire. That's when you had, um, you had the after hours, you had Loretta's, you had the palace.

Later on you had, with the ATL, um, I mean there's so many clubs, but in that one period I say from 2001 to somewhere around 2010 maybe, maybe a little after, the club scene, the black gay club scene, let me express that, the black gay club scene, it was a variety, like you had choices.

DJ Sir Daniel: You absolutely did. It

Ceejay: turned into something else,

DJ Sir Daniel: You absolutely did. And just a little caveat, what is that like?

[00:07:48] Dating and Clubbing Dynamics

---

DJ Sir Daniel: I, I see people do it, but what's that like going to the club with your significant other, because you know, I always imagine. You know, I kind of roll my eyes sometimes when I would see it and it would be, you know, cause sometimes depending on the couple, depending on the people involved, somebody might be a little more, um, uh, a little more social than the other one.

And then the other one is clingy and, you know, one might want to circulate around the, around the club, whereas the other one would want to stand in one place. Or, you know, cling on to their person and whatnot. What, what was that experience like for you going out with your significant other?

Ceejay: Well, it was um, it was cool.

I never, I never had an issue with it. I actually prefer it. So I never had an issue with that because I'm a, I'm a, I'm an affectionate guy and I like public display. I like PDA. There's no issue about that. However, even though usually my dude, whoever, whoever I'm with, they don't like it for some reason, but I like being out with my dude cause I like having those conversations.

I like having those moments where we can just be friends also. Like everything don't have to be, A romantic night in. We can, let's just go out, have some drinks, and just, you know, kick it and talk and da da da da. Nothing, you know, no pretense behind it, other than, let's just hanging out as friends. So, I like to have that vibe with, um, my dude, and, you know, the person I'm dating.

I love to have that vibe. Now, what I can say Um, how I do it has changed over the years, um, depending on, you know, cause you gotta be still accommodating with whomever you with. You have, you can't just think about, Oh, this is what I like to do. It is me, me, me, me. Cause that's the difference.

DJ Sir Daniel: What, what, what's the difference between CJ, 2024 and CJ, uh, 2001, circa 2001, 2001.

Ceejay: Well, I can tell you this. I used to, I used to be that dude in the club dressed like my dude.

DJ Sir Daniel: Matching outfit.

Ceejay: Oh, man. I used to be that dude, man. I'm telling you I look back on it and it's so cringy now Because i'm like, you know, I used to really do that I mean interview and matching to the tee So that was the thing.

Um, and that was actually before 2001. That was before I moved here I used to do a lot of that. Um But then as you get older, you start to say, yeah, no, that's kind of corny. And then you get out of that. But only the bad part about it, you end up dating somebody that wants that. And you'd be like, no, no, you better find something else to wear.

Um, and then, you know, sometimes you just don't care and you just go out. But I can say this, um, if you want to say 2001 Clinton going out dating and now CJ going out dating nowadays is probably a little bit more. Affection, I guess. Um, I'm going to sneak in some butt grabs and some this and that. I'm going to, you know, do all that kind of stuff to, um, you know, just to, I like that public thing right there.

Whereas before. It'll be you know, it won't be as bad It might just be holding hands just standing there holding hands, which actually now I think that's corny just Two people standing there holding hands. It's kind of just why are y'all doing that? But it's like it's like y'all just standing like mannequins holding hands, but I you know, I used to do that I won't do that now but back, you know now like I said more of trying to you know, get a belly a belly smooth or Butt grab or something like that.

So Yeah, it's a little bit different now. Aw. It's not as

[00:11:17] Ballroom Culture and House Recruitment

---

DJ Sir Daniel: Let's spin the block a little bit back to the ballroom scene. So, ballroom is a subculture, right? It's a subculture within a subculture. So, and I recall just like, you know, I would recall seeing You know, people that are, you know, my friends have been like, Oh, that's such and such.

And they're in the house of such and such. And that's such and such in there. So, you know, the, the, the houses, the members are a little insulated. So how does one become a member of a family of a house? And does most of the recruiting take place when you're out at the club?

Ceejay: Well, um, Houses are like, um, ballroom houses are like any other type of I always liken it to a fraternity or sorority or, um, to that effect.

Whereas everyone has different standard, every house has a different standard. Mm-Hmm. . Um, you have certain houses that are family oriented where it's, um, and I'm saying these things and it's not to say one is better than the other. It is just different. Mm-Hmm. . Um, you have certain houses that are more family oriented where it's kinda like a one take, you know, come one, come all.

Like we don't want to turn anybody away because everybody's looking for a connection So you come to the house we'll find something for you to do whether it's on the runway or behind the scenes helping other people You know, you have houses like that, which I give immense amount of respect to those type of houses because Because those houses are usually the larger larger houses And even on top of that is it takes a lot to run a house And then you have your other houses, which is a little bit more exclusive a little bit more um Clicky So it takes like you really it takes a lot to get into the house So they usually consider those houses, you know A lot of they can sometimes get the reputation as being stuck up think they too good that uh And you know, they usually wear those type of reputations with a badge though as a badge of honor because they're like yeah, we are and you're not getting in and you know saying you got other houses that The you can't ask to be in you have to be approached to be in And because if you ask you will never get it And then yeah, you have to be axed.

Um, and then the person who asks you Becomes your sponsor like you bring them to the the um the the the father mother of the house or the council of the house or You know because a lot of houses nowadays are more structured where they have um, like boards and Councils and elders and stuff like that And then somebody can say, Hey, I think you're a good fit for this house.

I want to sponsor you to be a, you know, whatever the house name is. And you, you know, you can get in that way. Um,

DJ Sir Daniel: do you, do you recall, um, while being at one of the nightclubs here, whether it was tracks or Loretta's, um, like you spotting a recruit? And you approaching them. Did it ever take place at any of those clubs or what was that experience like?

And you don't have to name names, but was there ever a moment where you were out? And you saw someone you were like, you know what they've been on my radar for a minute while we're here Let me just highlight them

Ceejay: That has happened and it does happen quite often with you know, numerous people but in atlanta that has happened with me the club the most that was um That you can what I say you could find you used to be able to find the most talent in atlanta Was wednesday night mini balls, um back in the early 2000 mid 2000s Is um Icon in the scene.

His name is andre mizrahi. He used to um Host a wednesday night mini ball packed all the time like people would literally travel here To go to a ball on a wednesday night and go back home. Like it was it was the place to be. Um In ballroom culture at the time in atlanta and if you that's where you will find a lot of the newbies So people who just wanted to be in ballroom who just wanted to and they will walk and you know I'll say 70 of them really didn't have a lot of talent, but then you had that 30 Who was just incredibly talented like they just they just needed maybe a little bit of structure a little bit of guidance And it's like they're going to be phenomenal and i've had some of them You That you know went on to be legends and so forth.

Um, so I would say that has happened actually That's how I found the um, when I started the house cavalli, um in atlanta That's how I found my house mother at tracks and I was like, okay It was her because um, he came in I call him house mother. He's a what they call a a male mother Um, so he was my house mother, but his pronoun is he um, so His his style was impeccable You Um, and I seen all my dudes little guys and stuff I could see him being the mother of my house and walking best dressed and that's what he came to the house And that's what they're so funny because he's a big stylist now So but yeah, and it's um, he came to the house and walked in one and We balance each other out because he was definitely more of the nurturer where i'm more of the disciplinarian And so we balance each other a lot and then you know, and the kids they like that dynamic So let's say you will get a lot of kids.

They're just looking for. Um, Some place to show their talent, but they want a family unit to do it in

DJ Sir Daniel: Isn't it? That's that's a theme that we've seen play out. You know, the world knows about that. Now that how a lot of young people who identify as queer gay lesbian, you know, the club is is oftentimes where you find That other family that your chosen family and it's so, you know, I mentioned it's on television now, but ballroom culture has become wildly popular over the past few years and, but they, you know, ballroom houses weren't always welcomed, um, by society.

So what? Can you recall what was the relationship between the ballroom community and the club owners in like the early 2000s? Because I'm, and I'm assuming you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming that a lot of the, the balls would take place in, At your nightclubs, um, so you'd have to have a relationship but not everybody was was feeling the whole ballroom scene because ballroom, um Ballroom houses come with a reputation, right?

So what were those relationships like back then if marrying the two communities?

[00:17:54] Challenges with Club Owners

---

Ceejay: Um, it was a little bit hard See one thing you had to have a good is it may I don't say you didn't have to Because most club owners if you got the money, hey, you can have your ball here But then it makes it Easier when you have a good working relationship with club owners.

Um, the one thing just to even take you back a little bit further um one thing that I was shocked about when I got in the ballroom scene became very active in the ballroom scene that the um Back in the um the early 2000s late 90s the ballroom culture I mean, i'm sorry the black gay community as a whole looked down on ballroom culture.

I didn't know that Until I became part of it and then you'll meet people this and that hey, how you doing? He might be somebody that you like and you want to date or something like that and you mean is that yeah Oh, you know, I you know what you do what you like to do for hobby. Well, I walk balls I like the ballroom culture instant turn off like you see that you literally see they hold a facial expression change Like oh and then you can like, okay, what's the issue?

So that was a big strong thing and then when it came to club owners or and club promoters Um, they looked at it as y'all gonna tear up my club You Y'all gonna come in here fighting y'all gonna tear up my club And yeah, y'all can afford to pay for the rental But will y'all be able to afford to pay for the staging once y'all mess it up or the couches once y'all put You know y'all high heels put holes in them for standing on them and stuff like that.

And so that was always um A barrier so that's what made sense You had to have a working community a working relationship with a lot of club owners and promoters So they can trust you and they can have a rapport with you and they can say You That's Clinton. He's good. CJ's good. Like that. Perfect example.

Perfect example. I had a ball. I hosted a ball about, um, it was a combo ball. I think it was two, a combo ball, two or three. I do them every two years or so. So, um, and it was at this club over on, on Cheshire bridge. Me and that club promoter because he was a manager me and that club manager did not get along He was new I I was new to him Me and him did not get along.

Um, the whole situation was rocky from the time I signed the contract So i'm like, okay, this is crazy this and that so anyway the night of the club night of the ball He wouldn't let nobody in he shut it down He I called the police the whole because they're like dude, we got a contract his thing was or it's not this We got a flood and he started making all these excuses like and I got so heated i'm ready to fight And you know, Brandon, he's ready to fight too.

So it was other people there that went clean. Don't worry about it. We can figure you find somewhere else. The first thing I did, I picked up my phone. I called Phillip. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Phillip. He used to be the owner of, um, seven away. Um, he's a, he's a big club guy in Atlanta. He, he doesn't, he don't do it anymore, but back then he was, um, he was the manager at, uh, I think he was actually owned it seven away before he sold it off to another guy and then Olivia started managing, he That whole story but anyway at the time he was the owner or manager of 708 And I called him I said man, I need a place to throw this ball this and that he said clinton Don't worry.

I'm done with this event here at one o'clock If you want to start your ball at two, I got you and that same night this whole thing He flipped his whole club for me. I had my ball over there So, I mean, it was an inconvenience because you had to start redirecting people. Like, everybody was going through, I had to leave somebody up there to say, Hey, the ball has moved to 708.

Of course, it was like a lot before, it was before heavy social media. Social media was around, but not real heavy, heavy. So it was like you had to physically call people and have people stay up there to just kind of redirect people to um, 708 which people did come up there. Everything still turns out good.

It did cut my I probably lost about 30 percent of people that originally would have showed up But it was one of those things where you know, I was still able to have a successful ball Give out all my money pay all my people. Um, so it was still good But it was just having that relationship with that club owner made it so easy to just pivot You Um, out of a bad situation.

So

DJ Sir Daniel: yes, so especially in a city like Atlanta, Atlanta is big, but it's not that big

Ceejay: at all.

DJ Sir Daniel: So you're absolutely right. Um, so starting and keeping a relationship with a lot of promoters and club owners. Was a skill that you you definitely have I've seen it

But you and Brandon also started a movement that I I'm using my I statements everybody Will assert was the first in the inclusivity crusades that you all are seeing now Tell everybody Talk to us about the The big dogs, the party, the after parties, the brand.

[00:22:44] The Big Dogs Movement

---

DJ Sir Daniel: Talk to us about what the big dogs is, was, and why you started at for the specific group that you cater to.

Ceejay: The, the, um, the G rated events, I guess you can call it, um,

DJ Sir Daniel: parties,

Ceejay: dance party.

There you go. The dance parties, because I said, we got, we doing this. Why can't we just do something and host a party where you can come have a good time that we can bring bigger guys and men who like bigger guys in the same room and let them do their thing. Um, because. The big guy don't always have to be the driver, the, that's my ride to the club, that's the, they don't have to be that, you know what I'm saying, because that was kind of the thing.

And then how about they come, they enjoy themselves, and then they're the ones, like, okay, this guy keeps following me around, he likes me so much, he buys me drinks, they can't be the, uh, they can't be the, I mean the um, The, um, the project, the object. Mm-Hmm, . Yeah. The object of affection. Affection. That's, that's, yeah.

The object of affection. I said because they're out there. Nobody's finn to tell me that there's not all these chasers out there. Because it was actually smile, it was actually frowned upon to like big guys. They kept that like, it was some secret, like it was like, you, you know, you like big guys. They look at you like you got three legs.

DJ Sir Daniel: You

Ceejay: know, so over the years is that that's why I'm so glad we're getting to the point We are now where people like I love me a big boy I love me a fat boy or whatever whatever because that's their attraction.

[00:24:13] Evolution of the White Parties

---

Ceejay: But yeah, especially in the 2000s people was like no I you know, and that's what they like But they so they freaking in the closet and you know in the shadows of the night But no if you like that go out there meet some date some like, you know, so they're not So that that was when I say, you know, we gonna start doing we start doing a white parties I remember the very first white party and Um, you know, that's

DJ Sir Daniel: the first, the first one actually was not on Labor Day.

If I'm, if I recollect correctly, it was MLK weekend and it was a winter in white party. And I would just recall like the very first one, I think I want to say was at Bulldogs. Nope. No,

Ceejay: it wasn't.

DJ Sir Daniel: Okay.

Ceejay: It's not, it's not, the place is not awkward. Like you said, that whole landscape has changed now. But the first one was, it was another club because we're 708 is, it was 708, 714.

And then it was an event center next door to them.

DJ Sir Daniel: No, that's, that's what I'm talking about because that was the very first one that I spun at.

Ceejay: Oh, okay. Okay. You talking about the day party? The first day party wasn't

DJ Sir Daniel: a day party. It wasn't, it wasn't a day party. It was, it was at night. So I, okay. So I recall around two, around Oh seven, I think maybe Oh six.

One, there was an MLK, um, party that you put on the big dogs put on and it was at Bulldogs. And I recur, I recall specifically, we, Where the hell am I going to find something white this time of year to wear at this party? It was, I mean, it was, I was sitting in a tizzy trying to find something to wear. So I finally found a white hoodie and a, um, and my, and my black, uh, bubble goose vest to wear over it to the, to the event.

And it was at Bulldogs. And now that was the, and I think that was around 06 or 07. Then by 08. That MLK weekend, it was at, that was the first time you Allowed me to come through and spin and it was at that event center behind 708 where all that stuff is no longer there anymore, but it was an event center.

Um, I sucked because that was my first gig Until the very end I will say until the end where I don't know what came over me but I People really started getting into it and started dancing. But I have to tell you from that moment and all the white parties after that during labor day weekend, I had never seen anything like that.

I, it was truly something that we all looked forward to. It was something that, you know, we all were looking. We started looking for something to wear because that was a big deal. I'll never forget when we were allowed to spin at the host hotel For black, uh, for black gay pride because it was the same weekend and we were allowed to, to come up there and host a white party there.

And I'll never forget like the first time I had y'all wobbling and a picture of a group of men of different ages, different sizes, like doing the wobble all wearing their white. I will never forget it as long as I live. And you and Brandon created that environment and like you said it changed lives because there's people that are, are married now, like you said, um, that met there at those parties and you guys created a legacy with the, um, with the big dogs and the white parties and things of that nature.

And so now how do you feel? Looking and you're seeing this whole landscape has completely changed and there's almost not a need for it It's like the the self esteem of the ones that have come up after us is like there They don't need any prop any prompting or pushing up They already come to the room with their chest out now

Ceejay: I look at it like okay mission accomplished Because the whole point of it was To um, to boost to give you an ego Um because to let you so you're worthy too Like one thing I don't like is anyone that feels like they're not worthy of something If you're on this earth, you're living you're breathing you're taking care of yourself.

Like you are worthy of whatever That you desire that's just period don't let anybody else tell you because people will use it People use your size against you as if you're not like, yeah, you shouldn't be worthy What you what you looking like you got something for you? You're fat. You don't got nothing No, you still you I mean you are you have spaces out there where you're the prize and that's what I that's the whole The whole point was um, even with And I remember that the um, that was at the millennia Um at that party and that was to be um as a side note That was the first i'm gonna say the first time but that was the one party where more ballroom people came to that party And that kind of shocked me and I was like, oh my gosh We're actually marrying the two and I was like, you know, and Brandon was kind of always against that part of it.

But I was like, no, let them come. Everybody can come. So that was one at that party. It was a quite a few ballroom people there and they really enjoyed themselves. So that was one of those good things. But that was like. The the white party or even the dance parties in general always thought that was just a bit to scratch the surface because Like there's other stuff we can do.

Um, and that's why we you know at the job I had at the time I wanted them to sponsor, um, the big boy cabin retreats and the stuff like that because it's like you gotta do other stuff Right, because I say other stuff we can have. Oh, yeah the camera because it is like I wanted to be at like zero cost to the people that's coming I just won't you know, and it was I was just lucky enough or blessed enough to have the position in that job where I could have made that happen So that was always a good thing So but my goal has always been for bigger guys because I you know, i'm not a small guy So it's always been for guys of size to feel wanted desired And empower them to know, hey, you, you know, you mean something here and you, you know, You don't have to settle for less.

Um, yeah, you can get what you want So to see that people actually got that in their system now and they're out there like hey What are you talking about? And I see the post and people on social media like i'm the pride. What do you mean? if I had Anything to do with that if a big boy party ever Pushed you to get to that attitude or ever push you to get to that esteem You Then I did what I had to do on my end because I always helped any other I can't even tell you how many um Big boy groups that I came after that.

I gave it giving advice to because it's never going to be I mean, it's not about just one group like it's enough room for everybody just do your thing My only thing is they do it with sympathy do it with care do it with Your um your target audience in mind. Don't do it selfishly That's my only thing do it with your audience in mind Make sure that your whole driving your whole drive should be them having a good time and being empowered so

DJ Sir Daniel: Thank you for that that no And i'm not i'm not gassing it when I say that it really it changed my life like Being Seen first of all nobody knew that I was learning how to dj I mean, except for my friends and then to finally find somebody or somebody, a tribe, if you will, that was opening their arms to say, Hey.

You got the talent come share with us, you know, and, and you guys, I was always paid. I always got paid, you know, so, you know, cause a lot of people will, a lot of people will try and say, well, you get paid in experience. That was not the case. CJ and Brandon always paid me. Um, money, man. Absolutely. But I don't believe in that.

Yeah. I get your money, but it's just the fact that that was it was definitely a life changing experience that spawned from, you know, just going to regular clubs and not being seen to having this whole movement be created and then. Sparking, unknowingly sparking this inclusivity moment that we're in, that we've been in for the past five, almost a decade now, this inclusivity thing of different bodies and whatnot.

[00:33:01] Changing Nightlife Landscape in Atlanta

---

DJ Sir Daniel: we mentioned a lot of buildings, a lot of places have disappeared from the landscape of Atlanta. Oh, that's true. Because of growth. Same thing with the clubs, like, um, um, the majority of the clubs that you mentioned in this conversation are no longer there.

So does Atlanta still deserve, you know, take it to a ballroom, um, so a ballroom term, but does Atlanta still deserve the title of black gay Mecca when it comes to nightlife?

Ceejay: I feel, um, well, when it comes to nightlife, See see that's that's I don't want to say it's a trick question, but it's it's harder to say because no one really has it right now So it's harder to say now some of some more than others But to say when I think of that mecca when I think of that nightlife, I think of that especially in atlanta I think of that Every night there's at least two options Monday option tuesday is two options sometimes three or four But atlanta used to be that place when that's how I get the title because you can wake up on a tuesday And say i'm off wednesday, you will find at least two or three clubs that will all be packed that you can go to that night right, so That that's long gone.

So no one has that right now. No city. No anything Um, so atlanta in my opinion, it doesn't necessarily hold it, but it's the last holder if that makes sense It's the last holder of that title So I guess by default they still do have the title because no one has picked it up and we gotta do it When I say this, I mean outside of pride weekends Of course, prior weekends, it's something to do in these cities, but once the prior weekend is gone, now what do you have?

You don't have, and D. C. is a great city, I mean, it's hope, but after prior weekend, what black gayness do you have in D. C.? You have a couple, you got the fireplace, and maybe one or two others, but it's not all on the same nights, it's different nights, different times of the month, all of that. So you don't really have that nightlife experience.

Experience that Atlanta once gave you so Atlanta still hold it. It's just not You know, it's just not utilized because nobody took it from them I guess that's the best way to it. No one took it. No one has taken it from Atlanta since Atlanta held it

DJ Sir Daniel: So good, I

Ceejay: wish the latter still had it though because Atlanta was the way the city is built It was like you can go to a club and bucket a black gay club You Let's say midtown, um, okay, but perfect example, you can go to the bulldogs have one experience You can go to the marquette have a totally different black gay experience and then you can leave that and go somewhere like um The lions didn't you know when lion's den was out the lions did and have an entirely different black gay experience And these are all clubs within the atlanta area that you have three entirely different black gay experiences at So you don't have that no more.

I don't care what city or state you're in. You don't have it no more. But Atlanta was the last person to give you that. If you woke up and you felt ratchet that day for that night, you go to Marquette because you know it's going to be ratchet city up in there and that's fine. But if you wanted to, hey, you want to put on your baseball cap and your jersey or whatever, and wanted to listen to, you don't want to listen to some hip hop, but you want to be around a more older crowd, you go to the Lions den.

You're going to get the baseball cap, the jeans, the sneakers, the nice sneakers and all like that, but from a more of a 35, 40 and up crowd. If you want a little mixture of both of those, you go to Bulldogs and you got places like that, but they're all three in time. They were, they were. All three, um different experiences but still under the black gay umbrella, you don't you just don't get that no more

DJ Sir Daniel: And to that point about not Getting it anymore.

I'm wondering If because now we're living in a world that's a little more inclusive That people aren't pressed To have those spaces anymore to create those spaces anymore, you know, you'll have promoters that Like you said for a holiday weekend They'll pay some straight performer You know to come entertain the crowd and you know charge outrageous prices um at a at a venue at a restaurant wherever But as far as an ongoing Um, places, spaces for black queer people.

It's just not, it's just not there anymore. And so is, do you, I'm, I'm wondering if it's because of that, like, is it because you know, you and the crew can just go to a brunch spot and, you know, throw ass while you're eating and drinking. And, but you don't necessarily have to go to a Greek, a gay club anymore.

Ceejay: Well, that's that's just part of it. I think that's a small part of it, but that is a part of it I think the bigger part of it is, um, the promoters.

[00:38:04] The Role of Promoters and Club Culture

---

Ceejay: We don't we really don't have um And I'm and this is no shot at anyone for no because I know a few quite I know three or four or five different promoters in Atlanta right now But it is so there's no shot at any one promoter any promoter at all, but a lot of promoters Um and once upon a time When the the the black gay promoters wanted to reach the black gay community um with parties or what have you it would be on a level of I'm trying to see the best way to put this Uh, it'd be on more of a broader level I guess you could say now the parties are so niche like you merely have to fit into this little pinhole of thug Rap, you don't think this whole this one little niche crowd, 18 to 25 crowd, that's the crowd you have to fit in, cause that's what, it seems like, from my, from what I've seen, it seems like that's the, um, crowd that the, um, most of the gay promoters, um, black gay promoters, um, cater to.

And then once you leave that, cause a lot of the older promoters, they kind of threw their hands up and they done. And those were the promoters that kept the crowd alive And he and a lot of the younger people are not paying those monies unless it is a prior weekend They're not paying that kind of money to just go to the club no more um, and I can you can add a lot of other little nuances in there like The drugs and stuff, you know, stuff like that.

DJ Sir Daniel: They're paying for sections. They're paying for bottle service. They, you know, they'll shell out money for that.

Ceejay: They're paying for a section. You get 20 people paying for a five person section. That's crazy. You're paying 200 or however much, whatever the section costs. And then you go up there because trust me, I've been invited to a billion and one parties and they say, you can come in my section.

You get to that party, you go to that section. It's like 20 or 30 people in this little bitty area. I was like, no, I'm good. I'm, I'm, I stay out here on the floor. And so it's like, yeah, you got all these people in the section, but is that really a VIP? Is that really a section? To me, you know, that's not, but that's the culture now.

That is our culture. Let's buy a bottle. Let's all buy this 200 bottle of Hennessy and we're all a fifth, that's not even a half gallon, but a fifth and we all gonna share it and it's 20 of us. So it's like, but that's that, but they, they, those, it doesn't matter because they're in a section Somehow and they got a bottle but that's not that's not that's not a flex to me when 20 y'all gotta share that one bottle So it's a little different the promoters don't care because they're selling the section and they're selling the bottle And then you're paying to get in so they they end goal is solved They did what they had to do But it's not the flex of the the patrons who come there and crowd out a section and share one bottle It's just not it's just not to me.

That's not a flex You Now if that was the thing because that we we are what they say we are brunch and section culture now Everything is a brunch and everything is a section and so we get as many people as we can because we I i'm not going to say we can't afford it But i'm just going to say we get as many people as we can so that we can do this some kind of way And that's because we live in it.

So this wouldn't have been a thing 15 20 years ago I mean even if the section thing was available, it'd be you You with a section, your boy will have a section, like everybody, it be, it wouldn't be like it is now. But we're so eager to get out and be amongst, and it's a flex now. It's not going out to have a good time, it's just going out to flex.

It's the reason why these clubs don't have, half these clubs don't have dance floors no more. Or the dance floor is just a little spot on the floor.

DJ Sir Daniel: That's right.

Ceejay: So it's, cause nobody's going out to have a good time no more. People are going out to flex. They just wanna show up and show out and flex and this is what, see what I'm doing and You know, that, that's what, you know, and we all gonna take a selfie with this bottle and as you're trying to take the selfie and go to the bottle, like, that's what we're doing now.

It's like You'll be,

DJ Sir Daniel: you'll be hard pressed to find anybody doing the wobble or doing any kind of line dance like what we experienced back in the day.

Ceejay: Cuz people went out to have a fun night. We met somebody great if our friends and we all just chillin great But the goal was to go out get drunk do get high or whatever, but have a good time Doing it not to just stand there and dance in place and say hey everybody look over here.

Look at me It is just a different culture now So, and that does play a big role because you got other people, especially the older crowd, they just don't want to be around a lot of that all the time. So, and they be charging you an arm and a leg to get in these places. It's crazy. Right.

[00:42:47] Maintaining Community and Inclusivity

---

DJ Sir Daniel: I will say for, for our crowd, the older crowd, um, what we do, what we have been blessed with, first of all, is some, a lot of us are living longer.

Knock on wood. There are some people, you know, there are some people that are still, you know, dying young, but for the most part we are living longer. Um, we didn't, we didn't come up in, in the epidemic and the height of the epidemic, right? So we didn't, so we didn't have that fear while we were coming out and, you know, and, and being social with each other.

But now I think as we get older, I think what we are doing a good job of is keeping in contact with each other. Um, or we at least we should and maintaining like regular contact with each other to check in on people because a lot of us, you know, we don't have to grow old alone anymore. You know, we can at least we have our chosen families.

If you don't have a, if you're not partnered, you can at least have a chosen family. So I think that at least that's something that came out of the culture that came out of the, the club history that we've been exploring here is that we, There have been many many reasons for us to go out and to congregate with each other where whether it was to find a chosen family whether it was to Find somebody to fall in love with or just you know to feel attractive to you know to feel seen But that's

Ceejay: important.

That's important. It's important to feel seen um When you're in any space, you want to feel seen, you want to feel, um, appreciate it. And that's in any space. And that's anybody, anybody say that that's something they don't care about. They didn't lie to themselves.

DJ Sir Daniel: Yeah.

[00:44:49] Final Thoughts and Acknowledgements

---

DJ Sir Daniel: Well, this has been Clinton. Joe Liffey.

Um, I, I always call him CJ. He's always been CJ to me. Um, run down that, that title again, father, father Clinton, run down your title one more time.

Ceejay: I am and it's so funny because I still get called father even though I don't I've been a father for 20 years and it's even though since I pulled back from ballroom something slightly Um, i'm not a father of a house or anything like that, but I have fathered fathers so, um So to say that my name is

I am legendary icon, Hall of Famer, Father Clint Lombard.

DJ Sir Daniel: Thank you so much for taking the time out to do this with me. I appreciate you so much.

Ceejay: Oh, I appreciate you. You already know, man. I love you to pieces. You have, um, and I'm going to take a minute to give you your flowers because you have meant more to the growth of the big dogs and the big boy movement more than you even know.

I promise you, it's been times where They will ask, especially when you really start doing your thing, is, um, sit down you DJ. Who's DJ? Like, they want you. Like, they, they be on it because I don't even, I can barely remember when you, like, you said you wasn't good. I'm like, when was that? Cause you always, like, you just always, you got, I remember when you started, but it seemed like you always had a knack, like, You might not have been good technically, um to your standards But you always had a knack to feel the groove to feel the music and people dance Like that was the thing you got the people out there and they dance and they wobble And yeah, and they did I mean and they did their thing and it and that was the um And that was a blessing like I say you was a blessing to this whole thing because you was right there You was I mean you played just a bigger part in all of this like it ain't just me It's just just brandon.

It's like you was right there and you played just a bigger part like I mean you can have the talkers all day. I can grab the mic a hundred times all day None of that means nothing if you don't got the music And that's what people want to hear. They come out there and want to music. I've seen too many times where you would play a song and you would switch that beat and that chord gets so damn crowded.

Cause they just like, okay, you done played they song. And so, yeah, you, you know what, you know how to fill out a crowd. If you don't want to do nothing else, you can play, you can move a crowd. That's facts. Oh,

DJ Sir Daniel: thank you. I appreciate that. Well, I, I've enjoyed this trip down memory lane. And again, thank you.

Thank you for listening to I Come Alive: Stories of Black Gay Atlanta Nightlife brought to you by Queue Points Productions. Special thanks to the Counter Narrative Project 2024 Media Roundtable for their support as well. Make sure you become a Queue Points subscriber so that you don't miss the next episode of I Come Alive.

[00:47:55] Closing Theme

---