From “I Wanna Be Down” to “Ladies Night”: Classic Women in Rap Posse Cuts

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From “I Wanna Be Down” to “Ladies Night”: Classic Women in Rap Posse Cuts

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Intro Theme

Welcome to the Show

Sir Daniel: Greetings and welcome to another episode of Queue Points podcast. I am DJ Sir Daniel.

Jay Ray: and my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my government. It's Johnnie Ray Kornegay III, and I will not hit the mic again. It's in a weird spot 'cause I'm not at my spot.

Sir Daniel: You are not in your usual spot, but that's okay because we are a fully mobile and fully functioning podcast no matter where we go in this world. As a matter of fact, that lets you know that you can invite Queue Points anywhere in the world to do our podcast and talk to whoever we need to talk to. But Jay Ray, it's March. That means this International Woman's History Month. And you know, here at Queue Points, we are squarely in support [00:01:00] of the ladies and women that have truly laid down a path and a foundation for what it means to be a woman, specifically a black woman in music. And today we're gonna talk about black women in hip hop specifically.

Jay Ray: Yes. Um, one of the things that I think we don't say enough is I think we treat women in hip hop as like. Ancillary to men or somehow behind men. And, uh, we recognized this when we went to, uh, see, uh, the exhibit as they were getting ready to open the, um, the hip hop museum in New York, in the Bronx. At the very beginning, every crew had a woman or women who were part of them.

And these women were typically like. Family members of the MCs or they were like, uh, uh, uh, you know, in [00:02:00] relationships with the MCs, but they were integral to the crew. It wasn't like separate from the crew was part of the crew. And, um, I feel like in hip hop we need to. Uh, center women as much as we center men.

And so when we're talking about like best MCs, we need to really think critically about, but who are all the MCs, right? And where do all the people fit in? Oftentimes some of these a sisters, and we are about to talk about some dope ones in this show.

Sir Daniel: That's correct.

What Counts as Posse Cut

Sir Daniel: And con, so like a lot of the conversations that are had in regards around to hip hop and surrounding hip hop is like, of course the top five conversation, top five dead are alive. And then some people make, um, special consideration for women mc. And say, well, what's your top five women MCs?

They have to make a, a specific lane for it, and oftentimes it's the same names recycled over and over again. Nothing wrong with the people, with the, um, people that they're discussing, but there are a lot of names that are [00:03:00] often left out. And sometimes there's also a conversation about posse cuts. And immediately when people say Posse cuts, they automatically go to.

Queen Latifah and Monie Love's "Ladies First". Now I am, I have a little pushback when it comes to that because as anthemic as "Ladies First" is to this day, a powerful, powerful tune that cannot be denied and is, is definitely a battle cry for, uh, for black women specifically in any situation, in any, um. In any category that they're living and working in and existing in "Ladies First" is definitely an anthemic tune that needs to be celebrated, but it is not a posse cut.

It is not

Jay Ray: Why, why do you, why do you say that, sir

Sir Daniel: I say that because it's a, it's a [00:04:00] feature. It's a, it's a feature cut. It's an artist featuring another dope artist. And no, again, nothing wrong with the song, but it is not a posse cut, in my opinion. In the dj, sir Daniel opinion, a posse cut is when three or more are gathered, Uhhuh three or more are gathered and the, and the Holy Spirit of hip hop will enter the room and it, and it will deem this a posse cut

Jay Ray: It'll be blessed then as a posse could.

Sir Daniel: A posse cut. And so I wanted to start off the conversation, um, with that, because we tend to, first thing they say is, oh, um, queen Latif and ammo you love. Dope feature song, but not a posse Cut. And what we are about to discuss is some posse cuts that are, there are some that are highly celebrated and others that are not celebrated enough.

Brandy - "I Wanna Be Down" (Human Rhythm Remix) featuring Queen Latifah, MC Lyte and Yo Yo

Sir Daniel: And so I think we should start with [00:05:00] one that I think everybody always goes to is the default Posse cut, which is the, "I Wanna Be Down" remix, featuring Queen Latifah, MC Lyte, and Yo-Yo.

Jay Ray: Yes. Um, so. What's interesting about this is, I think at the time when this was released, it's funny, me being in this seat talking about this song, knowing that I work with Kipper Wright, um, but I'm gonna talk about it from the fan's perspective, um, when this song was released. This is following, um, the experience that we had had with, um, Craig Mack and the "Flava in Your Ear" remix.

So our ears had gotten tuned to what a bunch of people, uh, on a song and in this part of the nineties would sound like. We had of course, experienced a posse cut before that when we look at the scenario and like all of these things. But [00:06:00] this was like something different. And so when "I Wanna Be Down", came out, which was banger R&B.

Cut. Right. I don't think, I never would've imagined that they would flip that into a hip hop Posse. Cut. So, of course, uh, the song, um, the original version, "I Wanna Be Down," written by Kipper Jones and produced by um, um, Keith Crouch. Um, they take Keith's production, and they strip down on this hip hop remix.

So you still get the pieces of Brandy doing the thing, and one Brandy's like a little girl. So you get like the 14-year-old little sister who's like anchoring the song. And then you get like her big sisters like coming into like. Wreck shop on this thing. And so of course we open with Lyte. Yo-yo is the anchor [00:07:00] middle, and then Queen Latifah is like the gut punch.

Big Teef is gut punching at the end.

Sir Daniel: Yeah. You know, so yes. Um, what this song solidifies is that. can actually become completely different songs from the original.

Total - "No One Else" Remix featuring Lil Kim, Foxy Brown and Da Brat

Sir Daniel: So, you know what, since we're in this lane, we gotta follow up with another, um, hip hop remix to an already popular, um, a popular R&B song by Bad Boy recording artists total who had hit the scene and was already smashing it with their, "Can't You See" song, which was all over the place, but then they followed up with "No One [Else]" which features the, the BDP sample of the "South Bronx".

And originally had a feature of Da Brat. Well, he [00:08:00] who shall not be named, uh, was, was brilliant at putting to, we can't take away the fact that he was brilliant at producing A&Ring projects and he thought it would be a good idea. To take three of the dopest female MCs at the moment and put them on the remix.

So we gotta give props to the no one else remix, featuring Da Brat, Foxy Brown and Lil Kim. Yes. Kids. I said Foxy Brown and Lil Kim. This song goes down in history as the only song that little Kim and Foxy Brown are featured on together. And I think Jay Ray for that alone makes this a very powerful remix to this song.

But what are your thoughts on the no one else remix?

Jay Ray: Um, one of the hardest. Remixes in hip, in, in, in, in hip hop, and R&B history. So from everybody's [00:09:00] intro. Foxy killed it. Like you remember all of their intros. Brown and, uh, chromed out what bubble in laying up with the Columbia.

Sir Daniel: Colombian, she loved the Colombian

Jay Ray: She loved the Columbia back then. And then many people tell me my style is terrific.

What?

Sir Daniel: This tremendous,

Jay Ray: Listen.

Sir Daniel: and her dancing in front of big at the time, that was so dope, so dope.

Jay Ray: so dope and, and of course Da Brat at the time was Hip hop's ace the Hole. So there is something that we, uh, forget about. If you wanted your song to like pop, you throw Da Brat on it because it was bound to like do something. Her flavor at the time was kind of what hip hop, the energy and the, the, the, the intensity of her rhyming style was the thing that people clamored for.

[00:10:00] So you put these three women, actually Kim and Fox, they're like young girls.

Sir Daniel: Yes.

Jay Ray: On this track along with total who, as you said, had the style was already popping and it's, and, and when you think about it, it's like three, I'm sorry, six women with like completely different styles, like, and the way that they show up in the world, all on this remix.

It was crazy. The, the, the production was hard. They stripped it down once again to leave room for the rappers to be able to do their thing. By far one of the hardest songs. It remixes in particular in hip hop history. Undeniably good?

Sir Daniel: Undeniably good for sure. A posse cut. There's a video. Lil Kim and Foxy Brown are actually in a video together in in, in, in funner times. It's so historic for sure. And, um, again, proof that a song [00:11:00] can be completely remixed. This is back when remixes were remixes, the remix could stand alone up against the original song.

And you know what?

Lil Kim - "Not Tonight" Remix (Ladies Night) featuring Angie Martinez, Left Eye, Da Brat and Missy Elliott

Sir Daniel: Let, let's round it out with, um, another very powerful, very radio friendly. The original song is not radio friendly at all. Not

Jay Ray: at all the, they're to the remix is totally different from the radio, from the, from the original.

Sir Daniel: The, the hardcore album version of Lil Kim's "Not Tonight" is a germane dupre production, um, stripped down, um, sample of George Benson's. Um, uh, so your love turn your love around.

Jay Ray: love around. Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: It's very bare bones, very racy lyrics. Um, but unforgettable. But unforgettable because it's Lil Kim. This song is featured on the Nothing to Lose. The Remix is featured on The Nothing to Lose Soundtrack. Martin Lawrence and Tim Robbins, [00:12:00] buddy Cop. Um. Feature film and this remix comes out of nowhere. First of all, we get a cool in the gang sample of, um, "Ladies Night", and people often refer to this remix as posse, cut as "Ladies Night" instead of "Not Tonight" the remix because the hook is that strong.

And we've got featuring Angie Martinez, who is. Hip hop radio royalty, an icon in her own right who to this day will never claim to be a rapper. She's like, look, I dunno what y'all were thinking about giving me a a a a record deal back then. She's like, I, she cringes at the thought of her rapping back then, but she's very credible on this remix.

And some will say it was a political move because it was an automatic entree into radio in searching into to rotation for sure. But Angie [00:13:00] Martinez, um, little Kim who, who doesn't open the song and doesn't close it, she comes, she comes in second, but still manages to body it because she's Kim.

Jay Ray: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Sir Daniel: And I think that's, I think that's a testament to her. And just her being comfortable. And you could tell that there was a familiarity in this moment with these ladies because each of them, to your, to your point earlier, are able to come in and do an intro into the song and p, it's very memorable. Everybody has an intro that's very, very memorable, especially number three on the list.

Left eye.

Jay Ray: Oh my God, yes. Left eye, um, is of course in this song and, okay, so this is actually, we will, we will, uh, uh, mention this now because it's consistent. The other thing. That makes this video very unique. And Sir Daniel, you did something with this specifically, is we get all the iconic Lil Kim [00:14:00] looks in this video.

So the four iconic Lil Kim looks. When we think of Lil Kim in the nineties, there's typically like a look on your face about what that was. That idea probably came from the music video of the "Not Tonight" remix because Lil Kim was changing her looks throughout the whole thing. Um, but left Eye. Um, of course appears on this song, which, and this is interesting, right, because this is post crazy, sexy cool.

So, TLC has won all the Grammys in the world. They have also started arguing with their record labels about not getting paid and each other, right? So they, they were pretty much. It's kind of doing their solo things at this point. And so left eye appears and everybody always loved left eye as an mc solo.

That was like always a thing. Um, of course on this we have Da Brat again, like all of these women, the. Yeah. Like they weren't gonna have a joint without Brat on it. Like it just wasn't going to be a [00:15:00] thing. So Brat again, and then iconic, uh, Missy Elliot who didn't produce this, this was produced by Ringo.

Um, Rashad Smith produced this and I

Sir Daniel: Tumbling, diced,

Jay Ray: Yeah, Tumblin Dice did this joint. And, um, so Missy Elliot is, is on here at the end as well. So you have five. Women on this song is that five? Angie, Left Eye, Kim, Brat, Angie and Missy. So you have five women on this joint and each of them carry and literally the song exists in a world of its own.

It is often not affiliated. To your earlier points, sir Daniel, with the original, it's an entity unto itself and it became a huge hit for Lil

Sir Daniel: A huge radio hit, which I think people, which makes people forget that it is in fact a posse. Cut. They're literally passing the mic to each other on this song. Um, yeah. And the [00:16:00] video, the video must be mentioned because the video, like I said, this makes the song even more fun because we see these ladies in a fun environment and a luau kind of, um, environment.

It's chock full of cameos. Mary J. Blige, Queen Latifah, um, Changing Faces, the the other ladies from the Xscape. I believe that, um, Tionne and Chili make A-A-A-A-A-A-A cameo in this video. And so it's a lot of the ladies from Atlantic Records and all the affiliated records. Foxy Brown's nowhere way to be found, but

Jay Ray: Well, we had moved on. We had moved to a different phase by then.

Sir Daniel: We know why, but yes, that, that, um, qualifies "Not Tonight" to be in the list of standout Posse Cuts featuring, um, only women MCs. And so I think, so these are all huge, huge success records. Oh, me and BA, possibly crossover records. [00:17:00] Pop popular, very popular. Cuts not for nothing, come from a culture of what we call the the backpack era.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Sir Daniel: Of rapping. And so we have to dig a little deeper for some other posse cuts that may not have, um, been as popular, but still are very powerful and need to be mentioned.

Big Kap - "Da Ladies in Da House" featuring Bahamadia, Precise, Treep, Uneek and Lauryn Hill

Sir Daniel: And I think we're gonna go here to, to Big Kap. DJ Big Kap, rest in peace for putting together, assembling, um, some kind of, they weren't. They were known MCs, but they weren't like crossover hit mega MCs. They were strictly like backpack like dudes would recognize these women and be like, oh yeah, she's fresh. 'cause she'll be in the cipher and she'll be spitting. But the song opens up with Philly's own

Jay Ray: yeah. [00:18:00] Bahamadia

Sir Daniel: her own right of Bahamadia.

Jay Ray: Yeah. Um, who, we'll, we'll talk about again in a second, but, um, Bahamadia in this moment in time, this is so interesting. Like there was room for an artist, like a Bahamadia in this right? Who is a woman Who did, literally her voice didn't sound like anybody else. Her flow was completely different than what you would expect, but she was fresh and she was u It was at the time when in hip hop you, your uniqueness was part of the things that made you stand out.

And Bahamadia was, was, was that so. Bahamadia was known because we had experienced Bahamadia One, she'd been on roots uh, joints. She was of course affiliated with Guru and Premier, so we, and she had been on joints by then, so we were familiar with who Bahamadia was, and she was on the cusp of being, you know, about to release her solo album.

Sir Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Jay Ray: [00:19:00] Um, but then I think what's so interesting about this particular song is there was a time folks when Lauryn Hill was not the superstar. We know her to Lauryn Hill was just like a really dope rapper at the time because in between. But Lauren is Bodying remixes in between. So The Fugees album had come out already, probably like two years, 93. Um, but the, it didn't really hit, Lauryn started showing up on stuff like left, right and center. Lauryn Hill was rapping on everything and it was just like, that girl is something. And this was one of those songs where she just kind of appeared. So once again, you have this, this moment in time where an artist that was like about to go [00:20:00] crazy.

Sir Daniel: So, what is so, um, it's a shame that more people don't recognize Uneek, because as I stated, um, this record was put together by Big Kap. Um, who at the time is part of. Uh, a posse of DJs 'cause DJs at this point we're heavy in the mix tape era and DJs like Big Kap, Funkmaster Flex before he blew up on the radio.

Um, Biz Markie is considered a part of biz DJ Doo Wap. All of them are running in the syndicate and putting together mix tapes. And these mix tapes are ru running the streets. As far for new MCs up and coming MCs, you gotta be featured on a wot mixtape, a Big Kap, a Funk Flex Mixtape, you gotta be on it. And Uneek, was a steady fixture on those mix tapes and Uneek, um. Got some, she was put on the radio at times. Also when, [00:21:00] um, I think when Angie Martinez and them got their own "Ladies Night" radio mix show at the time, um, Uneek is also featured on, um. Angie Martinez's, uh, debut album Uneek, um, is also part of the little known, um, group, the Ghetto Girls.

If you, if you ever come across the Ghetto Girls full album or you can listen to it on iTunes, you will hear Uneek is a part of The Ghetto Girls, and also put a stamp on that she represented like. Strictly Rugged Street rhymes. Talking about razors in her hair the whole night. It was super grimy. Her voice, she comes, she comes from that line of when Onyx came out and everybody was talking like, you know, was,

Jay Ray: Yes,

Sir Daniel: rap really grimy, Uneek?

Um, representative for the ladies in that faction and gave that, gave all of that personality to this record. So she really brought it to the streets. [00:22:00] She was, um, the street representation. Shout out to the other two ladies on the track. Precise and trip. Um, not much is known outside of them being on this record, but five ladies, five women, um, on this record.

Um, shout out to Biz Markie for the remix on the 12 inch single. I still prize that 12 inch single. It is really dope. And, um, yeah, um, Big Kap featuring Da Ladies, "Da Ladies in Da House". Is an underappreciated posse cut featuring female MCs, and we are going to go to another.

Bahamadia - "3 the Hard Way" featuring Mecca Starr and K-Swift

Sir Daniel: Speaking of Bahamadia, I had to, I had to remind you about this joint on her album, her debut album collage, and you didn't even know there was an actual video for this, um, record.

Jay Ray: literally have not seen the music video for "3 the Hard Way". So, um, one reason you should subscribe to Queue Points as well is Sir Daniel and I will watch it. [00:23:00] I have not seen it, so I have no frame of ref. I can imagine what the video is like. It's the mid nineties in a hip hop posse Cut.

But, um. Fish. Uh, right. And it's a lot of, you know what I'm Oh,

Sir Daniel: In Philly, so yes.

Jay Ray: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's kind of what I'm thinking it'll be.

Bahamadia Kollage Era

Jay Ray: But um, so we'll watch that video. But, um, so, uh, Bahamadia um, Bahamadia's Kollage, which actually goes down in history as, uh. Uh, it's kind of the end of an era in a lot of ways.

Like you just will never get a album like that from a women, a woman mc. It literally came out at the, of course, the same time as Kim and Fox's record in 1990. We are in the 30th anniversary of those records releasing. We have to talk about all of this. So, Bahamadia's Kollage comes out in this [00:24:00] and.

"3 the Hard Way" Breakdown

Jay Ray: One of the songs, uh, this song actually, uh, doesn't close the record, but it's near the end of, uh, uh, the album.

Um, but "3 the Hard Way" of course appears and it's a, uh, hype track. If I'm not mistaken, I think Premier produces "3 the Hard Way". I will confirm that, but, uh, just a super solid, rapid rap. Posse track that you probably are only familiar with if you are from the Northeast region Right. Or you're just like really into, uh, uh, uh, nineties hip hop.

So you probably have never heard this song and you should just go and check out this joint. 'cause it's a, it's a jam.

Sir Daniel: You make an interesting point about the Northeast, what's very, if we notice about all of these songs that we've mentioned, except for "I Wanna Be Down", and the last song that we're gonna discuss these songs are [00:25:00] squarely. East coast, northeast, uh, east Coast, stomping rap records. Rapid rap as we like to say, rapid rap records.

Um, even though Da Brat is from Chicago, we

Jay Ray: Chicago. Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: gotta give, homage to that. But there was a, like you said, this, this is a very, a square, a very important. Part of time where even if you were not even striving for pop success and if you were striving for pop success, there's something very important about staying true to is this rap that I'm spending going to be dope and heralded as a.

Lyricist Lyric type of song are the, are the people in the cipher going to rock with this rhyme? Are people gonna be like, oh yeah, she's fresh, she's nice. You still had to keep that in consideration [00:26:00] even if you were rapping over cooling the gangs "Ladies Night" and this, which is squarely a pop record, but there, but that was something very specific to Posse Cuts.

In the late nineties, um, moving forward that I think maybe part of the reason why, and we should probably discuss this at the end, why Posse cuts have kind of fallen off and nobody does Posse cuts anymore.

Jay Ray: Oh, oh, I have a controversial reason for that. But before we go to our final track, I do want to mention that. So for "3 the Hard Way", of course, it's on Bahamadia's album, so Bahamadia

Sir Daniel: Yes.

Jay Ray: D um, uh. Opens the song, I think,

um, and closes it. So she's on. She's um, and then we have K Swift and Mecca Star are both, uh, on "3 the Hard Way".

Super dope track. Go and listen to it. It's very, very Philly sounding. Um,

Sir Daniel: very, in my opinion, Mecca Star, um, eats it up, Mecca Star. Kind of chew [00:27:00] up everybody else on the record, but that's just my opinion.

Jay Ray: And the last song that we're going to discuss has a really unique history. And so, uh, we'll talk about, uh, this particular, uh, song in a second.

Discussing the origins of Joi's "Freedom"

Jay Ray: But one of the things that. Um, happens in 1993 and 1994. Post TLC's, first record Dallas Austin, um, uh, formed some record labels in Atlanta. So there's actually two of them.

There's Limp Records and Rowdy Records, and they are both Dallas Austin records. They kind of do different things. Right. So Rowdy has Monica and it has some other joints over there, but Limp is kind of the, the alternative label. Um, and that alternative label, quote unquote, signs an artist named Joi, who's literally the princess of the South.

Like Joi [00:28:00] is the, the, the member of the Dungeon family. That's kind of like queen of all things, right? Tennessee Slim. Shout out like for real. So no shade. So many artists that we love literally are doing what Joi was doing in like 1993. Gap. Joi was in Gap ads with the blonde, uh, short Hair. Joi was wearing that top to award shows singing her.

Face off, like she was that groundbreaking. So she releases an album, um, uh, uh, in that period of the pendulum vibe, which includes a song that she wrote called Freedom. Well. That song gets, 'cause Dallas, Austin is a producing for the soundtrack, the, the, the Panthers soundtrack, not Black Panther Panther, [00:29:00] which I think is directed by Mario Van Peebles, if I'm remembering correctly.

And. He pulls that Joi track. So Joi is actually on the song. So you just get to see Joi in the video, but that song transforms into an R&B posse. Cut. But there's something unique about this Sir Daniel, that you reminded me about with this song specifically. So just real.

"Freedom" Featuring R&B All Stars

Jay Ray: So let's talk about freedom as the The posse cut.

Sir Daniel: So freedom, as you said, turns into an R&B posse. Cut. And when I tell you it's the video I can see, I still see the video. To this day, it's black and white. It's a tight closeup on Coco from SWV, and SWV is in the video. Each and every R&B Black R&B female Soloist and group is featured in this video.

If you were on a, even the ones that were on the come up, were [00:30:00] featured in this video. Vanessa Williams, SWV, um, uh uh ooh. Changing Faces,

Jay Ray: faces, Aaliyah, I think was theirs.

Sir Daniel: TLC, any, every, and anybody you can think of is featured in this video. And so the song, the video comes out, the song comes out, and we're like, oh, this is cool.

This is fly. Let's go see Panther. But we're not done in the words, the famous words of KRS when we're not

Jay Ray: We're not done.

Sir Daniel: We're not done yet.

"Freedom" Rap Remix Featuring Hip Hop All Stars

Sir Daniel: They flip this song, this squarely R&B song into a rap posse. Cut and, and it starts off. The funny thing about this, it says all this rappers, but the song is anchored by. Patra

Jay Ray: yeah,

Sir Daniel: who is, who is literally the queen of dancehall music, where dancehall has had its own come up in the early nineties and is now mainstream.

Patra [00:31:00] is leading the pack, is the queen of the pack.

Jay Ray: the pack.

Sir Daniel: Quite frank, quite literally, of, um, female DJs out of Jamaica doing, um, dance hall music in a pop in a mainstream type of way. She anchors this song, but this song features opens up with Queen Latifah

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: who, uh, at this point is the megastar here in the, in the, in the Cut.

Queen Latifah, Yo-Yo, MC Lyte, Nefertiti, who.

Jay Ray: Shout out to Nefertiti.

Sir Daniel: Salt-N-Pepa, and Left Eye. Left Eye, like to your form, to your points earlier is like getting all these looks on these different songs. 'cause she's coming up and, you know, there's all these rumors about her breaking soul. But anyway, this song snaps because not only is it. Very capable MCs on here. The, the beat is stripped down as it has been in all of these songs that we're talking [00:32:00] about has been stripped back so that they can, um, do their rapping thing. Um, but it's also. Very black. It's very, um, speaking to the times, it's speaking to the times of the subject, which is Panther, which a lot of the things that happened in Panther in the sixties is still happening at that time in the nineties.

And we still have to keep bringing these things forward. And so not only are they, they're not even talking about how nice they are on the mic or. How much money they got. There is a very specific and a very intentional message in this song, and these women are speaking to the ills and the plights of the community and how they as women, the, the, the, the, the caretakers, the main caretakers, the people that give birth to the generation are.

Suffering not only at the, it's easy to put it at the hands of black [00:33:00] men, but they're suffering from institutional racism as well. And so they're saying, Hey, listen, I'm, I'm standing next to you, brother. I want to fight with you, which is what the women in Panther did is they fought next to these brothers, and so they brought it to this song.

If you have never heard it, if you have never watched a video, do yourself a favor. I'm pretty certain you'll be able to, we'll be linking these videos. To this, um, conversation. You gotta open, you gotta, um, hip yourself to, um, to freedom On the Panther soundtrack, um, originally produced by Dallas Austin, but there's a fly, fly ass Diamond D remix as well that um, really brings it to you.

And so this song, I think was the perfect way to round out this conversation about. Posse cuts by none, by nothing but women MCs, it, it, they exist. Y'all, they really do exist, and you just have to go and find them.

Jay Ray: Yeah, and, and, and I think not [00:34:00] only do these songs exist, we've talked about this before on the show, but I think one of the things that this underscores specifically is that women in hip hop have a history of when they get together. It's uplifting, right? They are really trying to send a message to society.

To the black community that, to your point you mentioned like that, that caretaking right to the community that they're caretaking for, to the men that they're often in relationship with that are also like struggling. Um, but also recognizing that like, yo, I'm with my sis and we are about to like body this thing together.

Like there is. This beautiful ability to embody the hard and soft that I've always found in women MCs, [00:35:00] that's completely unique. Men typically have to do one thing, whereas the women can be like, ah, I can walk this line a little bit. I could be a little bit of this, and a little bit of that. And all of these posse cuts, I think, uh uh uh uh, show that where you get all of these different vibes.

But to your point, at this point in time. And this is a very specific point in time. These women had to, they had to, they had to show up and, and prove, 'cause you had to rap then.

Why Posse Cuts Faded

Jay Ray: Before we get outta here, sir Daniel, I do want to ask a question. You, you mentioned this earlier, that we were gonna talk about this.

Why do you think this doesn't happen today? From your perspective? Why don't we have more women posse cuts or just posse cuts in general? 'cause quite frankly, you either in the crew. Or you not, or we not doing it together? I, we do see a little bit of it, but not really.

Sir Daniel: Yeah. It's, um, there are [00:36:00] multiple factors as to why these things don't happen anymore, specifically with women. Um, there's always been, for whatever reason, this weird fear, uh. Especially from the industry standpoint, this has been weird fear of having the women play with each other on the same, on the same track, or just in general?

They typically kept, especially in hip hop, if you listen to interviews, a lot of the women will tell you they kept the, the women separat. They kept them separated on tours. They kept them a away from each other. They kept them. It's, it's so weird when you think about it, like they'll talk about being sequestered to their tour buses and their hotel rooms and not being able to, to socialize with each other, except when, you know, I think it might've been Queen Latifah was like, nah, I'm, you know.

Me and Monie are hanging out. And then, you know, they, they, they, they hang out with other people on tours and they get to know salt and [00:37:00] pepper, salt and pepper. Talk about this a lot. How they felt alienated, how they felt like nobody liked them, but, and that was by design to, for whatever weird reason the industry wanted to do that.

And then now when we fast forward to, to today, the systematic racism. It's everywhere. Systematic racism is in our music. It's in the boardrooms, it's in the corporations that are take, have taken over hip hop that really don't want any kind of, uh, unity or anything that will cause you to think or, or to have any kind of. Thoughts, period. That could, that could, um, be deemed as something that will spark a revolution, a personal revolution, and a revolution amongst black people specifically. So there are reasons why you don't hear that anymore. There's a reason why Meg Thee Stallion and Nicki Minaj were on a song together, but a couple months down the line, they're beefing.

That's on purpose. That's done on [00:38:00] purpose. That's why you'll only hear Gorilla and a Cardi Gorilla and a Meg, they'll never have it. Or Meg and Cardi, they'll never have more than two on a song. It's a feature. It's all about money. And the so if it's not economically going to make money for them, nobody has interest in putting together posse cuts.

So, um, to, or, or anything that symbolizes unity within the hip hop community.

Jay Ray: You know, it's so interesting 'cause I, I really do think a lot of this, to your point, it does come down to like money. Now I don't know this to be true. Somebody has probably talked about this, but I always got the sense, especially in the nineties, right, people was always jumping on somebody's joint. A lot of them folks ain't had, you know, there wasn't a budget for you to be like, oh, I'm a pay

Brat, you know what I'm saying? To be on the song, unless you, you had the budget like that, but sometimes it's like, no, you my girl. Like, I'm gonna hop on the [00:39:00] song. I'm gonna get my writing credit. It's all good. We just about to do this thing. Right. I do wonder. Go ahead.

Sir Daniel: No. I go, no, finish your thought because I can't, I almost, I can't believe we almost forgot this, but Go ahead. Finish your thought. I'm gonna write it down.

Jay Ray: I think so much of the, the issue comes down to just like playing economics of just like, I can't afford to pay so and so to, to be on the song because they this big and they cost this much, you know what I'm saying? To be a feature, you know what I'm saying? On the song and, and all of that.

And there's just that, that the love is missing, you know, of just like, no, I think, I think they dope. And they need to, and I need to be on a song with them. Let's make that happen. Like how do we make happen that I'm on a song with them because they dope and me and them being dope together need to do something right.

Um, so my hope is that in this new, uh, in the, in the era that we're more marching into [00:40:00] that, that just that love and that respect comes back for somebody else's craft. And it's just like. That Unity. I just want to see that again, the fact that we have a song in history that includes Lil Kim and Foxy on the same song, and unfortunately it's the only one because y'all, this almost turned into a project.

Can you imagine what that shit would've done had that turned into a project with those two on it? But we didn't get that. That's okay. But we got the no one else remix.

Sir Daniel: Remix. So listen, let's stop, let's, let's stay on love for a second.

Erykah Badu - "Love of My Life Worldwide" featuring Queen Latifah, Angie Stone, and Bahamadia

Sir Daniel: I can't believe we almost forgot the "Love of My Life"

Jay Ray: Oh, crap. Angie Stone, Queen Latifah

Sir Daniel: Angie Stone and Bahamadia.

Jay Ray: Yo, and that is so fun. [00:41:00] Listen.

Sir Daniel: 2003. It's, it is really paying homage to, to Angie Stone's, um, groundbreaking group, The Sequence. Ha, how could we have forgotten that? Because it's a, it's an homage to, um, "Funk You Up", which was their, which was their big, big hit. Single. So shout out to Erykah Badu for gathering Queen Latifah and Angie Stone and Bahamadia on the same track, uh, for the love of my life.

Remix. I can't believe we almost forgot that because that, and then they took that on tour. The Sugar Water Festival. We could have had more of those. To your point about, we almost had the Thelma and Louise record, but Kim and Fox Brown, who knows what that could have turned into. You know, the, the, they had white people had Lilith fear.

Who knows what black people, black women could have had if there was a little more love

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: [00:42:00] and a little less systematic racism pumped into the industry.

Jay Ray: Yeah, so the Sugar Water Festival, Queen Latifah, Erykah Badu, Jill Scott, who was coming up, Jill Scott wasn't the Jill Scott we know today. Then, um, and Flo Tree was on that tour. There was so many amazing women. So, yes. What could have been so w.

Sir Daniel: have had it all.

Jay Ray: Could have had it all. And I think giving, um, hopefully y'all have listened to Queue Points and if there are any music folks listening to this, give the women their time to shine together.

Like just let 'em loose on, on the thing. See what comes outta that thing thing. 'cause something dopes gonna come out of it.

Final Thanks Sign Off

Jay Ray: But we thank y'all because hanging out with us as we reminisced about for Women's History Month on, uh, posse Cuts, uh, in hip hop featuring the ladies, just all the ladies on it. Um.

Subscribe. Visit our website at [00:43:00] queuepoints.com. Um, and where there you can check out all of the classic episodes of Queue Points. Um, make sure that wherever you're listening to us, if you can see us, if you can hear us subscribe there, share the show with your friends, family, colleagues, become a member. If you become a member, you can see some, we talked about some stuff, some exclusive stuff that we're gonna have over on the website.

So if you become a member. You can see some of that exclusive stuff that we have on the website and you can watch all of our, um, our Queue Points live. So we go live every Thursday at 8:00 PM Um, if you can't see it, cool, because what you can do is become a member. You can watch all of our lives. These are completely different shows and a shop, our store at store.queuepoints.com and check us out on Substack where we have some more dope stuff over there.

We appreciate y'all. We love y'all.

Sir Daniel: We absolutely do and like I always say in this life, you have a choice. You can either pick up the needle or you could let the record play. I am DJ Sir Daniel.

Jay Ray: My name is Jay Ray Young.[00:44:00]

Sir Daniel: And this has been Queue Points podcast, dropping the needle on black music history. We will see you on the next go round. And do the ladies run this?

Jay Ray: Hell

Sir Daniel: yeah.

Jay Ray: Yeah. Peace y'all!

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