Banjee Boombox Bonus Episode: How the '95 Source Awards Changed Hip-Hop and Atlanta Forever

[00:00:00] 

Sir Daniel: You are listening to the Queue Points podcast, where hip hop lives breathes and booms. I'm DJ Sir Daniel. 

Jay Ray: And my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my governments as Johnnie Ray Kornegay III and Sir Daniel, one of the things that was really important, something really important happened in hip hop history in 1995, which is also the year I graduated from high school, just saying,

Sir Daniel: You just had to rub that in. It's okay. 

Setting the Scene: 1995 Source Awards

Sir Daniel: I graduated two years earlier, but still, let's take it back to August, 1995. Jay Ray at the Paramount Theater at Madison Square Garden. Jay Ray, we're talking about the 1995 source awards. Now, Jay Ray, the [00:01:00] Source Awards is a major, major magazine for hip hop at this point.

Jay Ray: yeah. So this is an interesting time. Um, it, the source to your point is the Bible of hip hop. It's helped us to discover so many artists, but this particular year was really pivotal. So this is the second year of the source

Sir Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Jay Ray: Hip hop is in. Hip hop is basically bicoastal, right? The way that people viewed hip hop is you viewed it from the perspective of New York and Los Angeles, right?

That's kind of the lens that we were in. 

The Tension Between East and West Coast

Jay Ray: But this particular year for August, it was tensions were really, really high.

Sir Daniel: The regional rifts were between artists from different parts of the country in that moment. And so for Salt Npe who are pretty, are pretty well respected at this point, that was such a theme. That was a big deal for them to carry on in that manner. And Andre of course, [00:02:00] has been observing what's happening.

Jay Ray: the energy

Sir Daniel: and the west coast, and it's like, you know what? In this moment he's happy to accept this award because they worked really hard and, but he, but he said something. It's a quotable to this day, this is the moment, 30 years ago, August, 1995, Andre 3000 proclaims. His best, uh, south side voice.

The South got something to say. And Jay Ray, like, can you tell the people what the reactions were at that moment?

Jay Ray: the reactions were, well, so here's the thing. So to that point, right, the setup was people didn't know what to, I don't think people really knew what to think at that moment, right? Two out of the four nominees are not from New York, right?

New York has been lifted up as kind of the center of gravity as it relates to hip hop. [00:03:00] And the fact that this group who was really new, right? They didn't show up until a year before from this place called Atlanta.

Sir Daniel: but Outkast, to your point, was rapping. Rapping.

Jay Ray: They were rapping. Rapping and they, they were about bars and they were from Atlanta and they sounded like they were from Atlanta, and their sound was unique and from Atlanta, so. The room, the reason why out, uh, uh, Andre says this thing is, of course they can feel the tension. One, the people that were presenting them the award didn't even care that they won.

The people that were in the room didn't care that they won. And it was just like, yo, how did, he was really looking them in their face and like, yo, we are here. And the South got something to say and he couldn't have been more, right?

Atlanta's Rise In Hip Hop

Sir Daniel: The reaction to, um, Outkast funny is because New York [00:04:00] kind of liked Jermaine Dupri because Jermaine Dupri had a relationship with New York, you Whodini and through all the, um, old school rappers that he toured with and he's worked with.

Um, and then with the brat, even though she's not from New York, but the brat and working with big. So it's kind of like, but. You know, they, JD is from Atlanta, so it's kind of like, you would think they would've had a little bit of some surplus of love for Atlanta for that. But anyway, I find it so funny that literally like a year later, the 96 Olympics happens and the world turns all of its attention to Atlanta.

The world moves to Atlanta. The same, the same people in that room booing, um, booing, um, Andre and Big Boy actually moved to Atlanta. Oh, I just thought about this. Jay Ray, pepper of Salt and Pepper opened up a boutique right outside of Lenox Small called Hollyhood

Jay Ray: I [00:05:00] remember Hollyhood because when I first came to Atlanta, Hollyhood was still open.

Sir Daniel: It was still open. And so it's so funny, literally how the tables turned in that moment in just a little, a little under a year, Outkast and the Dungeon family broke through and they continued to stay true to themselves and laid down a foundation of, all right, y'all.

Y'all are welcome to the city. You are welcome to our home. We got some rules around here. Take your shoes off at the door. Enjoy this food. Definitely enjoy this mo music. Enjoy the booty shaking at the strip club. But we got some rules around here. We already have our own scene, like I mentioned. We have Soso def who is again, um, the, the, the pioneer.

Then we have LaFace.

Jay Ray: Yep.

Sir Daniel: And of course you have organized noise, which is Outkast home, and the dungeon family's home for production and music. And literally, Jay Ray, after that, Atlanta [00:06:00] changed the sound of not just Atlanta, but of the world.

Jay Ray: Absolutely. Truly. Uh, the moment, uh, that we talk about today when we talk about Atlanta influences everything, um, really was birthed in 1995. Um, and so to Sir Daniel's point. You have all of these things happening around LaFace. So of course, TLC becomes the biggest thing going. We get the birth of Goodie Mob and "Soul Food" happening, right?

Um, coming out of the dungeon family as well. But what is so beautiful about Atlanta at the uh, uh, coming out of this is, you know, of course you get ti, you get ludicrous, you get lujan, you get the trap movement that is coming from

Sir Daniel: era.

Jay Ray: the crunk era of Atlanta. So of the, of the, of hip hop. All of this is.

Able to be possible because of what [00:07:00] happened in 1995. And Atlanta, from that point forward, um, has not only been a place where many of us, including myself, have called home. You know what I mean? We call Atlanta. Yeah, we call Atlanta home. But Atlanta has continued to produce, um, artists that we, that we revere.

So we're talking about folks like future, we're talking about folks like the Migo. So we're talking about folks like Lotto. All of these folks are coming out of Atlanta, and Atlanta is still producing, uh, really, really quality and talented hip hop to this day. So it's a whole thing. That legacy is like crazy.

I.

Sir Daniel: And you know, that moment, like you said, it wasn't just about Outkast, but it really was about how a city was going to present itself to the world as a world-class, city, major hub, and what that meant for the future [00:08:00] of music. But what ca at what cost though?

Jay Ray: Mm.

Sir Daniel: What are the things that had to happen in order for the city to be on top like that?

Is it still on top? Is it still the blackest city in the country? These questions and more?

Jay Ray: These, you know, and, and of course Atlanta is also, especially as it relates to, you know, the stuff that we're doing here at Banjee Boombox, you know, Atlanta is also the queer me, the black queer Mecca. Um, but is that even true anymore? You know what I mean? Like,

Sir Daniel: You know.

Jay Ray: um, but I, I do, so I think a question, um, as well.

Sir Daniel, for us to just kind of ponder in this moment as we reflect on Atlanta, our love for the city, um, how it has evolved is, um, you know, what if Outkast didn't win? Like, what does that, what does that look like? Like, I, I can't even imagine what that would look like if Outkast didn't [00:09:00] win.

Sir Daniel: I, you know, I honestly can't either. Um, it's just one of those things that you, if you are a believer in fate and destiny, it's just one of those things that was set in stone before any of us even got here, because I can't see. You know, no shade to Cleveland, Ohio, but I can't see, you know, Ohio being the hub of blackness of, you know, Ohio Cleveland influences everything.

It doesn't even sound, it don't even sound right saying that, and again, that's no shade to Cleveland. Thank you to Bone Thugs and Harmony for their contributions to, to, to rap music and to the culture of hip hop. But I, I think it was the right. The right time in the right from the right city. I just think it was preordained.

Jay Ray: I absolutely agree. And to that point, sir, Daniel, I do think given props to. [00:10:00] I don't know who was on the voting. I don't know how, you know that decision was made. 'cause typically it's like people get to vote and decide, like, you know what I'm saying? Who gets the, the, the award and sitting. There's a lot we could say about the source, especially how it ended up turning and changing and all of that.

But they got this right. They got it right because Andre and Big Boy literally put Hip hop and Atlanta on its back and took us to the future. I can't see a more right moment in that. But speaking of the legacy though, we can't, we can't talk about the legacy of the 95 uh, Source Awards though, and not talk about something else.

Really

Sir Daniel: Oh, oh, oh. Listen,

Jay Ray: That happened that night.

Sir Daniel: listen. I, so when we decided we were gonna talk about this, my first inclination was to talk about this [00:11:00] particular moment, but you made a very good point of why, of why we need to pick up Atlanta Big up Outkast in this, um, episode, but. 

Lil' Kim's Breakout Performance

Sir Daniel: We cannot talk about this, the 1995 source awards without mentioning one.

Kimberly Jones, the breakout star from a group from Brooklyn called Junior Mafia. And I mean, j Lemme quickly just set the scene. For those of you who weren't there to see in person or who didn't see on Pay-Per-View Kids, there was a thing called pay-per-view. We had to pay to see this, but, um, this is Big's Mo Big is a solidified, is a, as a juggernaut at this point in hip hop.

He the, his song, one More Chance Around the Summer, like Big is a bonafide superstar and he's getting his crew, his crew is eating now because he's gotten them a record deal and they formed a group called, um, junior Mafia. You've got little Cs, you've got, um, [00:12:00] uh, all the other members of

Jay Ray: I gonna say, oh my.

Sir Daniel: Mafia, uh, that their names just really escape me right now, but it's little Cs and Lil Kim.

Jay Ray: Oh,

Sir Daniel: goes by? Big Mama, AKA, the Lieutenant and Lil Kim has been burning through the summertime also on two hits player's, Anthem

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: and Get money. Well get Money is about to blow up right after this point. So June, so not only does Big come out and rock his song with his producer all up in the video, dancing on the stage next to him, bopping side to side, big comes and does his thing, but he does what any good.

Mentor does. He brings his proteges out and they, their song players Anthem is just the hit of the summer. And so the crowd is, is moving along, moving along with little C's, doing his part. And, um, big does his [00:13:00] verse. And then,

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Sir Daniel: then Jay Ray, the moment we were all waiting for, that door opened up

Jay Ray: And the crowd.

Sir Daniel: She looks about this big. I'm putting my index and thumb together to show you how Lil Kim. Looks about as big as, uh, uh, entice as my mother would say, a piece of rice on the television. But yo, when she comes out, that posture is not to be played with Jay Ray. She's cuffing the mic and she's roaring, she's beasting on the microphone.

I used to pack Maxine Cadillacs. Now I

Jay Ray: the crowd is losing it.

Sir Daniel: I mean, losing it. Excuse me, y'all. I'm getting excited here. And she's, she's wearing, she don't look like how she sounds. She's got, she's wearing a French Tuck

Jay Ray: Yep.

Sir Daniel: hairstyle. She's wearing like this little negligee black, black negligee, some high heels, some [00:14:00] jewelry, and she's coming out and she's beasting on everybody.

She's. Roasting all the fellas that are with her. I mean, clearing them out. And in that moment she, I think that is the moment she solidified herself as a bonafide superstar. At that moment, people were talk people. Yes. People were talking about Snoop Dogg and his antics. People were talking about Outkast and their antics, but people were for sure talking about Lil Kim, which actually leads. Excuse me, y'all. Which actually leads to why we are here

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Sir Daniel: at Banjee Boombox. it wasn't for Lil Kim becoming a mul, I mean a multi genre, uh, just a huge superstar, she lent her voice or she became the face of. Hip hop that bridged the [00:15:00] gap between the hip hop community and the, and the queer community.

It wasn't until Kim came on the scene and queer promoters were, were like, Kim, can you, would you come out to the, um, to the paradox? Would you come out to the the Octagon when you come to the clubs in New York and, and show some love to your fans? They love you, and when she gets there, the audience is showing her nothing but love.

And then Lil Kim realizes. Oh, I've got a, a strong fan base with the queer community, with the black queer community, and then she branches out.

The Impact of the 1995 Source Awards

Sir Daniel: Of course, she crosses over, but it's in that moment where Kim actually is part of the reason why there can be a Banjee Boombox where queer artists have a home and can express themselves through hip hop because.

You know, because a Lil Kim found acceptance and found her voice. And here's another thing that actually, um, Kim. Kim, [00:16:00] Kim, and a lot of female rappers can, um, credit to the to the queer community. The queer community has given female rappers an extended life.

Jay Ray: Absolutely.

Sir Daniel: I mean, if we wanna think about it, not only record sales, but we're talking about.

Appearances, walkthroughs, pride, events. A lot of your favorite female rappers may not have been able to eat if it was not for a pride event or for some queer club, for some gay club. Wanting them to come through and do a walkthrough at the drag show, whatever, to show some love to their fans. So I think, you know.

Just another reason why the 1995 Source Awards really changed the landscape of not only Atlanta,

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: but just hip hop in general, and how we as a community all come [00:17:00] together at these different intersections.

Jay Ray: Yeah. Um, so this is also just reiterating, this is why it's important that, uh, platforms like Vane Boombox exist. One, giving folks like us, you know, podcasters who love music, love history, and love to have these conversations and opportunity to get in front of folks in real life. You know what I mean?

Outside of these, these microphones, and talk to them and touch them and really talk about the love that we all share. But giving void or giving platforms for musicians to be able to perform and just providing a place where. Queer folks in particular, queer folks of color can come and be together and have a cultural experience that is elevated and curated lovingly for them.

Right? So, listen, we absolutely, as crazy as the 95 Source [00:18:00] Awards was, y'all were not even scratching the surface on how crazy that night was. It allowed us to, um, fall in love. For those of us that didn't know, uh, Dre and Big Boy allowed us to fall in love with them, allowed us to fall in love with Lil Kim.

Um, and, and truly serves as a, as a, a, a source, uh, a a truly one of the most trans A source, uh,

Sir Daniel: see what you did there.

Jay Ray: know what I mean?

Sir Daniel: what you did there.

Jay Ray: Truly one of the most transformative nights in hip hop history. There are these moments in hip hop history that become kind of here's what the future holds and the 95 source awards, uh, and everything that happened that night became that.

Conclusion and Call to Action

Jay Ray: So, um, thank y'all for just being interested in tuning in for us, uh, and this episode here at Banjee Boombox and keep supporting. Platforms like Banjee Boombox. Make [00:19:00] sure if there's opportunities to donate, donate. If there's opportunities to share information about upcoming events, share them. That costs you nothing, right?

Because we need platforms like this to exist. So shout out to the Banjee Boombox team, dj, Mary Mac, DJ Liquid, and everybody else for, um, having this really, really dope platform for us to be able to show up and, and talk about stuff like this. This is dope.

Sir Daniel: Absolutely Source 1995 Source Awards, A pivotal moment. We want you to be pivotal partners with us. Thank you. We want you to stop by the table. Scan that QR code, keep the conversation going with Queue Points. You know, we love you. We your boys. So we want you to love us and follow us at at Queue Points.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: in to where black music lives.

Atlanta, we see you and we love you. So please enjoy yourself the rest of the evening here [00:20:00] at Banjee Boombox. And uh, don't forget, leave that review.

Jay Ray: Leave the review

Sir Daniel: know what to do, please. Okay,

Jay Ray: Peace y'all. Thank you.

Closing Theme