In this episode of Queue Points Podcast, hosts DJ Sir Daniel and Jay Ray explore the legendary career of Teena Marie, discussing her significance in Black music history and her status as a uniquely accepted white artist within the Black community. They share their thoughts on how Teena Marie's work and persona would be received in the current social climate, and reflect on her influence in both R&B and hip-hop. Highlighting her collaboration with Rick James and her ability to maintain authenticity, the hosts provide a nuanced conversation about cultural appreciation versus appropriation, Teena Marie's indelible mark on music, and her lasting legacy as an embraced and celebrated artist.
Listen to “‘Summer Of Soul’ & 90s Music Industry Copycats”: https://qpnt.net/show-8
Topics: #TeenaMarie #BlueEyedSoul #BlackPodcasters #BlackMusic #MusicPodcast
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
*DISCLAIMER: Transcripts are created using AI, and may not accurately represent the content exactly as presented. Transcripts are provided as a courtesy to our listeners who require them.
00:00:00
Jay Ray: Hey, what's up good people.
00:00:01
It's Jay Ray, the co host of QPoints.
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00:01:21
DJ Sir Daniel: Peace and welcome back to another episode of Queue Points podcast.
00:01:24
I am DJ Sir Daniel.
00:01:26
Jay Ray: And my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my government
00:01:30
as Johnny Ray Cornegay, the third, what's happening folks.
00:01:36
DJ Sir Daniel: Y'all Queue Points podcast is the podcast dropping
00:01:39
the needle on black music history.
00:01:41
And this episode is on.
00:01:43
Not unlike the others.
00:01:45
We are about to have a great time with this conversation.
00:01:50
I see people in the comment section already.
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People have been hitting us up on the socials have been really
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responding to the, the graphics.
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And thank you.
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Thank you so much for reposting those kinds of things.
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I was telling Jerry the other day, I don't get tired.
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Of seeing y'all show us some love.
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00:02:26
Jay Ray: And merch!
00:02:27
You see how DJ Sir Daniel is wearing the Slow Jams Can Heal Us merch?
00:02:32
I still ain't got my mug.
00:02:33
Child, I don't know why I use my Slow Jams Can Heal Us mug every day.
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And I have two of them, but when it's time to do the show,
00:02:43
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00:02:44
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Anyway, Let's start there.
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00:04:24
DJ Sir Daniel: That's right.
00:04:25
Excellent.
00:04:26
so, You know, most of these topics, all of these topics come about when Jerry
00:04:30
and I just get to talking, especially during our, um, our, um, Our Sunday
00:04:34
meetings to talk about the show.
00:04:37
And one of the spur, I guess, splinter meetings or conversations that we were
00:04:42
having while we were talking about cowboy Carter and how, you know, the, the
00:04:47
people are really, but her about Beyonce, this black woman doing country music.
00:04:53
And, you know, she needs to stay in hip hop and R and B and,
00:04:56
you know, stay in your place is basically what they're saying.
00:05:00
Stay, stay over there with all the other black stuff.
00:05:05
I just thought it was so interesting, the dynamics of how when white artists come
00:05:12
on over and dip their toes into, into Blackland, into the, into the, into the
00:05:20
lakes, into the waters of late Minnetonka, and think, you know, and, you know,
00:05:24
And do all the things, you know, they adapt the black scent, you know, start
00:05:29
wearing Jordans, you know, start wearing throwback skirts and, you know, they,
00:05:34
they come over and they have a good time.
00:05:36
They, they develop a weed habit all of a sudden, and they just
00:05:40
come over and have a great time.
00:05:42
But here's, but here's the caveat for me.
00:05:45
And I've said this many times on this show, I am not one for giving out
00:05:50
free passes to the, to the cookout.
00:05:52
I, the cookout is not carte blanche for everybody.
00:05:56
For me, if it's, if I'm at the cookout, I'm checking IDs,
00:06:02
how'd you find out about us?
00:06:03
Who sent you here?
00:06:05
You know, who, who did you come with?
00:06:07
All of that stuff.
00:06:08
Jay Ray: Yes.
00:06:09
So it's interesting that you, you, uh, you mentioned this because I think
00:06:15
what those folks who dip their toe.
00:06:18
Over on our side, right?
00:06:20
Also oftentimes end up just leaving and going to do Whatever it is
00:06:26
that they're going to do once they reach their level of success.
00:06:30
We've seen it a million times remember when Justin Timberlake right who just
00:06:36
made R& B albums forever decided you know what I'm going to the woods Now,
00:06:44
I, I'm gonna revisit this record.
00:06:46
Um, Sybar, you know the secret.
00:06:48
I'mma just, I'mma just tell everybody the secret.
00:06:50
You know the secret because I've told you.
00:06:52
I actually like the new Justin Timberlake record.
00:06:55
That's another story.
00:06:57
So I said it out loud.
00:06:59
I feel free now.
00:07:00
That's no longer
00:07:01
DJ Sir Daniel: You come out.
00:07:02
You come out as a,
00:07:04
Jay Ray: I'll
00:07:04
DJ Sir Daniel: as a fan of this Justin record.
00:07:06
Jay Ray: of this just in record and many just in records longer story.
00:07:10
It's a guilty pleasure, but the point is many of these artists, what they do do
00:07:15
is they dip their toe in and then they leave and they go and do something else.
00:07:20
The unique thing though, about the artists that we're talking
00:07:23
about tonight, Sir Daniel
00:07:25
DJ Sir Daniel: Mm hmm.
00:07:26
Jay Ray: is She just dove in and stayed and kept swimming on this side
00:07:37
DJ Sir Daniel: And she became what is known as Black Famous.
00:07:41
She is very So I guess, J.
00:07:45
Rey, okay, what is your definition of Black Famous?
00:07:48
Jay Ray: black famous is an individual who is pretty much universally famous
00:07:57
famous among black folks, just generally across generations, but you literally
00:08:06
can talk to people outside of black culture that have no idea who they are.
00:08:11
And meanwhile, you're like, how could you not know who insert artist
00:08:16
here is that to me is black famous.
00:08:19
What about for you?
00:08:21
DJ Sir Daniel: No, I, your definition is perfect.
00:08:24
I don't have anything to add on to that because, and there's only, I will say
00:08:28
there's only a handful of people like
00:08:30
Jay Ray: Yep.
00:08:31
DJ Sir Daniel: There's only a handful of people like that.
00:08:32
And, um, Yeah, when I think of like Gary Owens, you know, comedian, literally
00:08:40
the probably him being on the Wendy Williams show is probably like exposed
00:08:44
him to more white people than he's ever been exposed to as a comedian.
00:08:48
But of course, he got his start in the.
00:08:50
The black clubs, you got to start on BET and let's, you know, the artists that
00:08:55
we're speaking about featuring on the show, of course, is none other than Mr.
00:09:01
Miss white chocolate soul herself, Teena Marie and Tina, like Jerry said, Teena
00:09:07
Marie has the distinction of standing 10 toes on big business and staying
00:09:13
in the lane of being black famous.
00:09:17
And, you know, we're just going to have a conversation about that.
00:09:19
Like Queue Points.
00:09:21
always does.
00:09:23
Jay Ray: Real quick, Sir Daniel.
00:09:25
Um, I think we also, this is Tina, of course, Teena Marie would be the
00:09:31
person that would be this person.
00:09:33
Teena Marie is the first white artist that we featured on Queue
00:09:40
Points in our over 100 shows.
00:09:43
We've never featured on Queue Points a white artist.
00:09:50
DJ Sir Daniel: That is true.
00:09:50
Because, well, I mean, you know, Queue Points, we, we center blackness,
00:09:54
we center black music history.
00:09:57
But of course, Teena Marie is one of those anomalies that has come in, came in on a
00:10:04
black label, got signed to a black label.
00:10:07
Famous label
00:10:09
Jay Ray: Mm-Hmm.
00:10:10
DJ Sir Daniel: and continued and doubled down and did the work.
00:10:14
And I think that might be the key to her staying power.
00:10:18
But Jerry, I think you should just break it down for, you know, the young people
00:10:22
that might be tuning in and we appreciate you for listening while you listen to
00:10:26
the uncles, the uncles over here, talk about all this old hip, all this old R
00:10:30
and B and music stuff, but just break it down for them about Teena Marie.
00:10:35
And, um, who she is, we know, you know, some of her music, but take it away,
00:10:39
Jay Ray: Yeah.
00:10:40
So, um, Teena Marie, to your earlier point, sir Daniel is kind of an anomaly.
00:10:45
So let me just make something perfectly clear.
00:10:48
Teena Marie's birth name is Mary Christine Brockert.
00:10:54
I wanna say it again.
00:10:55
Teena Marie's birth name, is Mary Christine Brockert.
00:11:02
She is definitely a, she was definitely a white woman.
00:11:05
Okay.
00:11:05
Let's be
00:11:07
DJ Sir Daniel: very
00:11:08
Jay Ray: clear about it, right.
00:11:10
So, of course, she began singing at a very young age, um, as the, I went
00:11:17
back and I watched the, her unsung and, um, Harry Belafonte and Dale
00:11:23
was like the first thing that she remembers singing as a child, which
00:11:27
apparently embarrassed her mother.
00:11:29
It was apparently very embarrassing to have little Mary Christine.
00:11:34
DJ Sir Daniel: Yeah.
00:11:34
Cause that's a, that's a work song,
00:11:36
Jay Ray: Right, right, right, right.
00:11:38
Exactly right to have singing the song so born in Santa Monica, California, um,
00:11:46
spent all of her time, of course, um, in California and began as a singer, but
00:11:54
also Teena Marie has the distinction of being a multi instrumentalist, right?
00:11:58
So.
00:11:59
As she began to kind of, uh, develop as a musician, she formed bands because
00:12:06
that's the thing that people did like, and we talk about that a lot on this
00:12:09
show, Sir Daniel, the importance of bands
00:12:13
DJ Sir Daniel: Absolutely.
00:12:13
Jay Ray: you, and what you learn, right?
00:12:15
So she, of course, um, formed a number of bands, uh, before, uh,
00:12:21
kind of capturing the ear of Berry Gordy and Motown, um, in the 1970s.
00:12:29
And what I think is really important.
00:12:33
I think there's a couple of things, um, that set Tina up.
00:12:38
Um, And it's contextual.
00:12:41
I don't have any hard research on this, but I think these are important things
00:12:44
to keep in mind by 19 by the late 1970s.
00:12:51
Um, as Tina is preparing to release her debut album.
00:12:55
Um, Motown has been in L.
00:12:58
A.
00:12:58
for at least eight years or so, since the early 1970s.
00:13:03
They are changing.
00:13:04
So, Motown had even released I Was Born This Way.
00:13:09
Motown has The Commodores now.
00:13:11
Motown has Rick James now, right?
00:13:13
This Motown sound that is ingrained in the DNA of a Black culture
00:13:18
was changing in the late 1970s.
00:13:19
This Motown sound that is ingrained in the DNA of a Black culture
00:13:23
was changing in the late 1970s.
00:13:25
And also black folks were experiencing, um, uh, a bit of a heyday, right?
00:13:34
So this is post civil rights.
00:13:37
Disco is churning.
00:13:38
Folks is making a coin.
00:13:40
You know, we got black movie stars and black everything, right?
00:13:43
We got black mayors around the country.
00:13:46
Um, and so Teena Marie Enters, uh, our popular music lexicon at a time
00:13:55
when there was room for her, right?
00:13:58
There was room for this white woman to who we didn't know was white at first.
00:14:04
Cause of course Motown hit her y'all Motown hit her picture.
00:14:10
Wasn't on the
00:14:10
DJ Sir Daniel: what they did, what other labels were doing
00:14:15
back in the race record days.
00:14:17
They, instead of putting the artists on the cover, they did
00:14:21
some very abstract art and had her eyes in the clouds and whatnot.
00:14:26
So you didn't, didn't know they weren't releasing like, um, Those headshots,
00:14:32
Jay Ray: hmm.
00:14:33
DJ Sir Daniel: headshots.
00:14:34
They probably only released them to people that needed to know like the, um, the
00:14:37
radio stations and whatnot, but I'm sure she wasn't on the cover of like Tiger
00:14:41
beat magazine or anything like that.
00:14:44
Jay Ray: no.
00:14:44
Right.
00:14:45
So.
00:14:46
She comes and she emerges with this first album and people really not knowing
00:14:53
what this woman even sounded like, only knowing that this song was jamming.
00:14:58
It had Rick James on it.
00:15:00
I'm a sucker for your love.
00:15:01
We getting into it.
00:15:03
And, uh, I think it's also important for us to underscore as we jump into this
00:15:07
conversation that we likely would not be talking about Teena Marie had Rick
00:15:14
James not swooped her up and said to Mr.
00:15:19
Gordy, I want to work with that little white girl.
00:15:22
I want to work with her, right?
00:15:25
We would not be having this Teena Marie conversation as talented as she was.
00:15:29
It was that Rick James sauce at the beginning that.
00:15:35
Allowed us to be introduced to her.
00:15:39
DJ Sir Daniel: Well, that's the power of the black co sign, right?
00:15:41
The black co sign is what.
00:15:45
You know, to your earlier point made Justin Timberlake
00:15:50
popular in black households.
00:15:53
Oh, that white boy can dance, that white boy can sing.
00:15:55
He can play the piano.
00:15:59
you know, it's the cosign that, who had a really dope cosign?
00:16:05
Um, Mm.
00:16:07
You know, Madonna had her co sign from Sheik from now, now Rogers.
00:16:13
Um, there's plenty, plenty of artists that got a co sign from, you know,
00:16:19
if we talk about, we're going to talk about this later, but we could talk
00:16:22
about people, um, rappers like Terry B and, um, Vanilla Ice didn't have
00:16:28
one, but the Young Black Teenagers.
00:16:31
And just to say that the co sign Is a very for the community and that's why I that's
00:16:38
why I have such a visceral reaction to these cookout questions and and why and
00:16:44
why do you think Jerry we are just so open and willing to allow somebody that to, in
00:16:51
my opinion, is able sometimes is able to mimic, you know, Um, flavor, um, to mimic
00:16:59
blackness, to mimic the singing, because, you know, we're, we can be dramatic.
00:17:04
We can be very performative, uh, in our performances.
00:17:10
And sometimes that I feel like people feel like they can parody that and
00:17:14
they can make a mockery of it and get some type of recognition for that.
00:17:20
Okay.
00:17:21
Jay Ray: I agree with that.
00:17:22
I also, I also wonder if because blackness has been so demonized that we appreciate
00:17:42
when someone outside of the culture sees us and wants to be part of it.
00:17:51
Right.
00:17:53
I think that's, and I'm literally, I've only been, um, as I was getting
00:17:58
ready for this show, kind of like wondering what that is, knowing that
00:18:01
this was going to be part of it.
00:18:02
But I do wonder if that's the case where we're willing to like invite you in
00:18:08
because you see us, you are here with us.
00:18:12
And, um, you doing it like we do it and other and, and feeling like other,
00:18:19
the world doesn't see us like that.
00:18:23
Um, and I think we've gotten more sophisticated and recognizing when
00:18:30
people are doing it and there are being performative and when people are
00:18:34
doing it because it's who they are.
00:18:37
And that's why I think Teena Marie is actually unique because.
00:18:42
This was just what she was doing in all the times she
00:18:47
could have done something else.
00:18:50
And Barry Gordy even said in the unsung, like Tina was like really talented.
00:18:54
She could have kind of done whatever she wanted to do.
00:18:58
This was the lane.
00:18:59
Like I'm a stay in this R and B, this soul R and B lane.
00:19:03
This is what I'm going to do.
00:19:04
And so let's go tapestry.
00:19:07
It's
00:19:08
DJ Sir Daniel: is what she loved.
00:19:09
This is what she felt comfortable with.
00:19:11
Um, and her influences were there.
00:19:14
And yes, and like, in that same unsung, Teena Marie looked like, Okay, if
00:19:19
you all are familiar with the Carole King, album cover, um, tapestry.
00:19:28
Absolutely.
00:19:29
Tina.
00:19:30
That's what Teena Marie looked like a very kind of crunchy granola, you
00:19:35
know, the, the pup, the puffed out wavy hair, you know, pair of bell
00:19:39
bottoms, real kind of granola, but which is par for the course for that.
00:19:44
Decade.
00:19:45
It was the late sixties, early seventies, and that's what she looked like.
00:19:49
And, but she was making the music to your point.
00:19:51
Like Barry Gordon was like, nah, she's dope.
00:19:53
She she's really churning out all these songs and hits.
00:19:57
She's churning them out by herself because she's a fully developed artist,
00:20:03
writer, composer, all of that stuff.
00:20:06
But, um, you know, to the point.
00:20:09
If Rick James wanted to work with her, Rick James gave her
00:20:12
this sauce and swagged her out.
00:20:14
Because by the time she got on American Bandstand and Soul Train specifically,
00:20:20
you know, mama was had on her, her skinny disco pants and a glittery top
00:20:26
and was like, you know, popping and doing the latest dances and whatnot, because
00:20:30
I'm sure she got a little training.
00:20:32
Jay Ray: Yes, you know, so one of the things I'm sure was very
00:20:37
clear to Motown is that this woman cannot go into these spaces.
00:20:43
Motown is all about selling a record, right?
00:20:46
Um, this woman cannot go into these spaces and choke, right?
00:20:50
She gotta be ready to go into these spaces and perform.
00:20:54
So I agree.
00:20:55
I'm sure there was very much a lot of preparation.
00:21:00
I am certain That Rick was part of a lot of that training.
00:21:07
You know what I'm saying?
00:21:08
Um, because she just had to be able to do it.
00:21:12
And if you're gonna hit the road and go out on the road with Rick James
00:21:15
in the Stone City Band, try by fire.
00:21:19
I can't imagine.
00:21:21
DJ Sir Daniel: It requires, it requires some toughness.
00:21:23
It really does, especially the women, because at that point, the women
00:21:28
were really just backup singers.
00:21:31
And, you know, they're for eye candy and for, you know, jump offs for
00:21:36
afterwards, but she's in the forefront.
00:21:40
So to your point, she's got to show and prove like, Oh no, I'm here.
00:21:44
And you know, sometimes black crowds can be really tough, you know, Apollo style.
00:21:49
So her first goal is to win over each crowd.
00:21:53
And clearly she was able to do that.
00:21:55
And And I just think it's so funny.
00:21:58
I still think about the cosign and, you know, being adaptable to, to black
00:22:03
culture, to, to, to black sense and to, to speaking, it reminds me of that airplane
00:22:09
movie from the eighties airplane, where.
00:22:13
Where the, there's two black gentlemen flying on the plane and this, the
00:22:18
flight attendant is trying her hardest to understand what he's saying because
00:22:22
he's feeling sick and he needs help.
00:22:25
And the flight attendant is just like, I want to help, but I just
00:22:28
don't understand what he's saying.
00:22:30
And then the mother from Lever to Beaver, Barbara Billingsley leans
00:22:36
over to the flight attendant.
00:22:38
Excuse me.
00:22:40
Maybe I can help.
00:22:41
I speak jive and it is the funniest, you know, it's wrong, but it's
00:22:48
still funny at the same time.
00:22:50
Cause she's something, what it is, black.
00:22:52
What going on?
00:22:53
I was coming some say and never, he's like, all right, Hey,
00:22:57
little mama, cut me some slack.
00:22:58
My mom, you know, la la la la.
00:23:00
And then the funniest thing at the end is like, he's like,
00:23:04
man, little mama, go ahead on.
00:23:05
I don't need your help.
00:23:06
And she's like, Chump don't want no help.
00:23:09
Chump don't get no help.
00:23:11
Jive Turkey.
00:23:13
Foolishness!
00:23:14
Jay Ray: Airplane.
00:23:16
Oh my God, this movie could not happen in
00:23:19
DJ Sir Daniel: In 2024.
00:23:20
Jay Ray: 2024.
00:23:22
It, it, listen, we can laugh now.
00:23:25
I haven't seen airplane in years.
00:23:28
I actually, I would probably still laugh.
00:23:29
It was, it was, I remember it being really funny.
00:23:31
It would probably still be really funny.
00:23:33
But, um.
00:23:35
To that point right so in even just thinking about Tina and even
00:23:39
her musical trajectory, right?
00:23:41
So you get these first two albums?
00:23:45
One album one is written and produced by Rick James.
00:23:48
So Rick James is all over it.
00:23:50
I'm just a sucker for your love Deja vu is on that record though.
00:23:54
I've been here before baby.
00:23:56
That's song.
00:23:57
That's a song song, right and then There's an interesting so Tina
00:24:03
is having to do this thing where it's like every year there's an
00:24:06
album So then eight so that's 79.
00:24:09
Do you have 80?
00:24:10
With lady t lady t is produced by richard rudolph husband of minnie
00:24:15
riperton father of maya rudolph um and Motown hires richard rudolph.
00:24:23
So done working with rick.
00:24:25
We're gonna hire richard and then richard is like I mean You Sure, but this,
00:24:32
this woman don't need our help, right?
00:24:35
DJ Sir Daniel: She's got
00:24:36
Jay Ray: She could do this on her own, just let her fly.
00:24:39
And it's that third album, Irons in the Fire, where Sir
00:24:46
Daniel, I need your love, man.
00:24:50
Listen.
00:24:52
And we.
00:24:52
Young love is on there.
00:24:55
We then fully understand what's possible.
00:24:59
And that record was written and produced by Teena Marie.
00:25:03
Um, and she plays a bunch of stuff.
00:25:05
She writes, you know, all the stuff she produces, the whole thing.
00:25:09
Um, her band is Ozone, which was like a huge, uh, important
00:25:16
backing band at Motown.
00:25:17
So she has like this crack band.
00:25:21
She is writing these songs and producing them, and it's the first time that she
00:25:26
kind of branches out and we get to hear what a Teena Marie song sounds like.
00:25:32
Do, do, do.
00:25:34
DJ Sir Daniel: And so, and this is where the show improved comes in because
00:25:39
now you've got songs that have entered the lexicon, the black lexicon of.
00:25:47
Music.
00:25:48
You become, she has become a part of our lives because you throw on
00:25:53
square biz, specifically square biz.
00:25:57
I don't, I don't know what it is.
00:25:58
I think it's the horns.
00:26:00
It sounds very celebratory.
00:26:03
And I don't know.
00:26:04
It's just funky, it's just funky, it's a funky record, and it just has that
00:26:09
stick to itiveness that the culture, the community, will not let that song go.
00:26:15
Jay Ray: Yeah, no, I agree, you know square biz and I just thought about this
00:26:19
Square biz is one of those unique songs that has you kind of fall into it because
00:26:24
you know, she gives you the way And it
00:26:29
DJ Sir Daniel: attention right at the beginning.
00:26:30
Jay Ray: and it rides into the groove and you got all of that.
00:26:35
So I feel like, but you're right in the stick to itiveness of square biz
00:26:42
because that song of all the Teena Marie songs, and it's not even her
00:26:46
biggest hit, but it's her most enduring classic where across generations,
00:26:53
so Daniel, when you and I were, um, At uh, Jeremy Avalon's party.
00:26:58
DJ Sir Daniel: Absolutely.
00:26:59
Jay Ray: high key disco in Atlanta.
00:27:01
You, we're seeing your uncle, me, Uncle J Rand, Uncle Sir Daniel is up in here.
00:27:07
Just the oldest.
00:27:07
We are, we are here.
00:27:10
We're the oldest brothers up in here, right?
00:27:12
But these young people are getting it to square
00:27:15
DJ Sir Daniel: The young people were throwing down to square biz,
00:27:19
and I don't even think I don't even know that they have a real concept
00:27:24
of they don't have the concept.
00:27:26
They don't have the background of square biz and what those
00:27:31
parties, what it means to parties.
00:27:33
But what it was is that it's just this.
00:27:36
Sonically, it's just a great song and it's a great groove and they, regardless
00:27:42
of how old you are, it pulls you in.
00:27:45
And that's exactly, that's the hallmark of a great song and great music.
00:27:49
And we, yes, Jay Ray and I witnessed it.
00:27:52
And funny enough, you bring that up.
00:27:54
I wonder.
00:27:56
But those same young people, because, you know, young people can be really critical.
00:28:00
And I wonder if Teena Marie was a 2020s artist that was coming out,
00:28:07
would people be so open to embrace her?
00:28:11
Would she be considered problematic, trying to appropriate, you
00:28:16
know, is she a culture vulture?
00:28:18
I'm wondering, would she be readily accepted today as say she was back then?
00:28:24
I
00:28:26
Jay Ray: You know, you know, that is a really good question.
00:28:29
And honestly,
00:28:33
I don't know that an artist like Teena Marie could even make it today.
00:28:37
I don't know that there's room for, I don't know that she could get out
00:28:44
the gate is what I'm really saying.
00:28:46
Like, I don't know that with all of that talent.
00:28:52
I don't know that she could get really far.
00:28:54
She might get a first album.
00:28:56
Hell, she might even get a second album.
00:29:00
But I don't know that we have the
00:29:06
Back then, yeah, Bandwidth, back then, there was room.
00:29:11
Like, there was an opportunity to give people a chance.
00:29:14
And I think we're fortunate that we were able to get her when we did,
00:29:20
because yeah, just, I don't know.
00:29:22
And I'm curious to know with folks, for those that are joining
00:29:24
us live, uh, what, what are your, what are your thoughts on that?
00:29:28
Could Teena Marie, uh, an artist like that even work today?
00:29:34
I don't know that there's an appetite for, for two things.
00:29:39
One, the style of music and the heavy instrumentation, right?
00:29:43
Cause these songs are composed.
00:29:46
Um, but also to your point, like just the white woman in black culture,
00:29:52
steeped in black culture in that way.
00:29:55
I think it would be a hard pill to swallow from a, um, from a, from a
00:30:00
musical perspective, because is there.
00:30:02
Today who we've tried it.
00:30:07
We tried it with Iggy Azalea.
00:30:08
It didn't work out.
00:30:10
DJ Sir Daniel: we?
00:30:11
Jay Ray: Well, we didn't
00:30:12
DJ Sir Daniel: I don't know if that, that's kind of, that's
00:30:14
apples to kiwis right there.
00:30:16
I don't know about that, about Iggy Azalea.
00:30:19
That's not the first comparison you want to
00:30:21
Jay Ray: Right, so maybe not Iggy, you know, you love that freestyle sir.
00:30:26
Daniel when she was up there
00:30:27
DJ Sir Daniel: Please stop that.
00:30:28
Stop it right now.
00:30:32
Because, like, even, uh, even like, um, you can't even compare.
00:30:36
You can't compare her to Madonna.
00:30:37
That's because they can't almost came around around the
00:30:40
Jay Ray: They're very similar time frames
00:30:42
DJ Sir Daniel: yeah.
00:30:44
I don't know who they're Alicia.
00:30:47
Well, yeah, that's going to be, that's a, that's a hard comparison.
00:30:51
Again, anybody in the chat that's watching this live, let us know what you're, if
00:30:55
you think there's anybody that could compare to a Teena Marie today, or
00:31:00
whether or not you believe Teena Marie, as we know her could make it as an
00:31:06
artist in the 20, in the twenties, the roaring twenties and the way music is.
00:31:12
presented and, um, but also in this climate of people, you know,
00:31:18
safeguarding and, and, um, policing blackness, um, and black culture and
00:31:24
calling out appropriation at any time that when they see it, cause you know,
00:31:29
with social media, oh, it's going to be, it'll probably be a rap for her.
00:31:33
The first time she comes out with her hair, with her hair tightly coiled like
00:31:36
that and wearing some cockleshells, it's probably going to be a rap for her.
00:31:41
Like, who is that?
00:31:42
And what is she trying
00:31:42
Jay Ray: what is she trying?
00:31:43
I absolutely agree and um, even just thinking of the songs themselves So I
00:31:49
think less so since we were on square biz, I think we stay with that record,
00:31:54
which is her fourth album It must be magic which has square biz on it,
00:31:59
which also has My favorite Teena Marie song on it, which is portuguese love
00:32:06
DJ Sir Daniel: Hmm.
00:32:08
Jay Ray: Which was which was it a single?
00:32:11
I think it was the last single from the record, but it's really just a quiet
00:32:15
storm staple And even just thinking about that song right where she's
00:32:22
singing about this night She fell in love in Portugal with which without
00:32:27
which with possibly a man of Portuguese background I I Even that song is so funny.
00:32:35
I'm like, I don't even know if that could happen today, right?
00:32:37
Could we do Portuguese love?
00:32:40
DJ Sir Daniel: Could we even do that?
00:32:42
She's lucky.
00:32:44
We're lucky that she was around and came around in the time frame, the
00:32:48
time span that she did, because she was allowed to cook as an artist
00:32:52
and to, and had the freedom that we would allow people to back then.
00:32:57
But yeah, nowadays, I don't know.
00:32:59
And even sometimes like I, I, I give it up for Teena Marie.
00:33:03
I enjoy her music as well.
00:33:05
As she's.
00:33:06
meant a lot to hip hop, but sometimes those vocals, and I
00:33:12
think we can say this here on cue
00:33:14
Jay Ray: We can
00:33:15
DJ Sir Daniel: those vocals, they, you know, there were some times when
00:33:19
I was like, Hmm, you know, you know, there was a little trail in her voice
00:33:24
at times and it was, it was doing, it was doing a lot sometimes, but I
00:33:29
think, I think the earnestly in which she was singing and the lyrics mama
00:33:35
could, she could paint a picture.
00:33:38
She definitely could.
00:33:39
And I think that that is her saving grace and all of her other talents,
00:33:44
of course, are the saving grace.
00:33:47
So I think we kind of kind of look past some of those little shrilly moments
00:33:51
that she would have, and that's okay.
00:33:53
Because all of, even artists that we love, or black artists, there's some
00:33:57
black artists, and I'm not gonna name names, but they, they have given us some
00:34:01
questionable vocal, uh, performances.
00:34:04
But we love them down.
00:34:06
We dare anybody to say anything about, you know, auntie or uncle.
00:34:10
We love them down.
00:34:11
And that's that
00:34:12
Jay Ray: Yeah.
00:34:13
And I think the thing to keep in mind, even cause as I was revisiting
00:34:18
Tina's catalog, You know, I had to remember that also as a vocal stylist.
00:34:29
DJ Sir Daniel: A song
00:34:30
Jay Ray: A song stylist.
00:34:32
had a unique delivery, right?
00:34:35
Her, her, her voice.
00:34:36
There's not another voice like that.
00:34:39
You know what I'm saying?
00:34:40
Like it was a unique delivery.
00:34:43
And fortunately, to your point, it.
00:34:48
It arrived at a period of time where, um, the combination of the
00:34:53
lyrics, the musicality, and all of those things gave it room to
00:34:58
be able to like move a little bit.
00:35:01
And, I mean, from a storytelling perspective, Um, I mean, listen,
00:35:06
she wrote Casanova Brown about Rick James, about this man who had all
00:35:12
of these women around, but she was still in love with this person.
00:35:16
So she writes this song about a person that is a superstar that we all know and
00:35:24
releases it and it becomes its own hit.
00:35:28
That's not to be messed with.
00:35:31
DJ Sir Daniel: it isn't, and you know, to her.
00:35:34
to her credit, she was able to hang with Rick on possibly the biggest song that
00:35:39
they're both a part of, and that's Fire and Desire, because they didn't, and
00:35:44
now, and in all honesty, Rick has some questionable moments, some questionable
00:35:48
vocal, vocal moments on that song as well, but it's still a classic.
00:35:53
It's still a karaoke, you know, you kill a karaoke with that one.
00:35:57
It's a great duet is dramatic as hell.
00:36:01
So it checks off all the boxes that people, you know, that people go
00:36:05
up for, for a song and what makes it a classic and she hung with him.
00:36:10
And when, and their live performances is really what sells it, you know,
00:36:15
the, and the drama is there, you know, the backs turn to each other and the
00:36:20
singing to each other, you can't, you know, you can't fake all of that.
00:36:25
You, you really have to really believe in yourself and believe in.
00:36:30
the song and still and have some type of relationship with the person
00:36:35
that you are having that duet with.
00:36:37
And so you can't fake any of that.
00:36:40
And I think that is the crux of what we're saying on Queue Points
00:36:44
is that Tina is an anomaly in the sense that she never faked anything.
00:36:51
She was always true to her, you know, to her love for the community.
00:36:56
And I think that's what kept her, um, in.
00:37:01
In the graces of the black community, like when she passed away, I think if,
00:37:08
and I might get some flack for this, if they were still doing those paintings of,
00:37:13
um, Jesus, Martin Luther King, Malcolm X and JFK, those kind of paintings
00:37:19
that were always in black households and have all the montage of all the
00:37:24
black people that have passed away.
00:37:25
Teena Marie is.
00:37:27
Definitely in one of those paintings and that you find in black households paying
00:37:32
homage to all of our fallen, um, heroes.
00:37:36
She's definitely in there.
00:37:38
Jay Ray: That tickles me so
00:37:40
DJ Sir Daniel: You know what I'm talking about?
00:37:42
Y'all know exactly the paintings.
00:37:43
If I promise you, we can go to a flea market right now and find one of those
00:37:48
instead of the, um, the last supper with Jesus and his apostles is going
00:37:52
to be the, a table full of black artists and Teena Marie at the table.
00:37:58
Um, replicating the last supper.
00:38:01
It's come on.
00:38:02
It's just what we do.
00:38:04
Jay Ray: You know what?
00:38:05
I receive that.
00:38:06
I absolutely do.
00:38:08
And I think, yeah, to your point, you know, of this, this artist being just like
00:38:13
a one of one artist where even in those times, even when she felt, even when her
00:38:18
style of music kind of fell out of favor.
00:38:22
the, in the early 1990s and, and I didn't realize this at the time,
00:38:27
but when I rewatched the unsung, she talked about the fact that she, like,
00:38:30
I chose to step away because, you know, I had a child, I was a new mom.
00:38:37
I wanted to be a mom and having a record deal would mean I need to record.
00:38:41
It would mean I need to tour and it would mean.
00:38:43
I had to be away from my daughter and I didn't want to do that and I respect it.
00:38:48
Um, two notes, Sir Daniel.
00:38:51
First note is, um, Passion Play by Teena Marie needs to be on streaming services.
00:38:57
Okay.
00:38:58
Shout out to Tina's daughter and her and her family.
00:39:02
If we could get that on streaming services for the folks, I see Carlton in the chat.
00:39:06
If I know Carlton, I know Carlton has Passion
00:39:09
DJ Sir Daniel: probably has a copy
00:39:10
Jay Ray: Carlton probably has a copy.
00:39:12
So, um, shout out to that album, which was her independent 94 record.
00:39:20
The look at Carlton in the chat.
00:39:22
I had that CD, of
00:39:23
DJ Sir Daniel: See, we, we know.
00:39:26
Jay Ray: The last thing I wanted to, um, mention, um, was.
00:39:33
There's a parallel I think to the Snoop conversation that we had late last year
00:39:40
in Teena Marie her her her last well two of her last three albums were on cash
00:39:47
money, which I remember at the time being very weird but then Those records just
00:39:56
sounded like Teena Marie records, like they didn't, they sounded nothing like
00:40:00
what Cash Money was doing because they were written and produced by Teena Marie.
00:40:05
So she was essentially just doing 2000s, Teena Marie songs.
00:40:10
And I appreciate that so much that I'm sure baby and them was just happy
00:40:16
to have Teena Marie on the label.
00:40:18
DJ Sir Daniel: Right.
00:40:19
Jay Ray: But this idea of Teena Marie doing the Southern reset.
00:40:24
Right, because it had been 94 Passion Play comes out, uh, look, the Danya comes
00:40:31
out in like 2005, you know what I'm 2006.
00:40:35
So it had been over a decade and she was able to do that in the South.
00:40:40
And then her final record was on stacks after they re kind of started
00:40:44
that label, which is again, another Southern label, um, where Teena Marie.
00:40:50
Was able to still be Teena Marie, but do it in the South and be able
00:40:56
to have Smokey Robinson, guesting on two songs on the Sapphire record.
00:41:02
Nobody was like doing Smokey Robinson as a featured artist in 2007 or whatever.
00:41:10
And Sapphire is a beautiful bridge building record.
00:41:14
So.
00:41:16
Saying all this to say, as she even fell kind of back and that style of
00:41:23
music that she did fell out of favor, when she got down to the South in the
00:41:28
early 2000s, she still was committed to doing Teena Marie stuff, even in
00:41:35
a modern way, which is really dope.
00:41:38
DJ Sir Daniel: Well, and I think she was given, um, Room and the platform to do
00:41:45
that because you, to your point, being signed to cash money, baby slimming
00:41:52
them, those are all Gen Xers, right?
00:41:55
Those are all people that were reared and raised on square biz on
00:42:01
behind the groove on fire and desire.
00:42:03
So we meaning the black community have an allegiance.
00:42:09
To those, to those, to that music and because you have created this
00:42:13
art that is longstanding and, um, means something to the community,
00:42:19
they're like, Oh, it's a no brainer.
00:42:20
We're going to sign, uh, Teena Marie.
00:42:23
And because Teena Marie is one of those people that embraced hip hop.
00:42:27
Hip hop embraced her back.
00:42:29
I mean, if you think about it, think about how, how connected
00:42:33
Teena Marie is to hip hop history.
00:42:36
Listen to, if you listen to Sierra's one, two step and Missy spits her rhyme.
00:42:41
What rhyme is Missy spitting?
00:42:42
She's spitting her own version of Tina's rap on square biz.
00:42:48
I'm five, one, four, four, four, four, four, four, four, four, four, four, four.
00:42:51
You know, she's doing that.
00:42:53
And that's a, that's a nod to Teena Marie.
00:42:55
And before that.
00:42:58
Um, the Fuji's biggest comeback record is Fuji La, which is an
00:43:05
interpolation of Oh la la, oh la la.
00:43:09
And so again, there's a lot of, of tying Teena Marie into, into hip hop.
00:43:16
And as we're growing up, because by that time we are in our early.
00:43:20
Late teens, early twenties, and still Teena Marie is, uh,
00:43:25
is omnipresent in our lives.
00:43:28
And we can't forget, of course, Firm Biz, the Firm, Nas, Foxy Brown,
00:43:32
and AZ, and Cormega come together to form this super hip hop group.
00:43:36
And right out the box, they came out with Firm Biz, which is a direct
00:43:41
sample and interpolation of Square Biz.
00:43:44
So again, her, because of her Loyalty and, and honesty and truthfulness to
00:43:54
the art and to herself that reads to us.
00:43:59
And I think that's why she has so much staying power and was able to, to be
00:44:05
black famous for so long, still be, um, uh, invited to the BET awards and, you
00:44:12
know, get to, you know, God bless them, get to have that last performance with
00:44:16
Rick James and, you know, and still be.
00:44:20
A viable part of the culture and not be and not be called
00:44:25
out for trying to fake the funk.
00:44:28
Jay Ray: Man, that's real talk.
00:44:30
Um, yeah, Teena Marie, definitely a one of one.
00:44:34
There is not another before and not another sense in particular when we
00:44:42
talk about folks outside of black culture doing this kind of thing.
00:44:48
Um, and listen.
00:44:51
The bops are for real like you just Teena Marie has a catalog full of
00:44:57
bops Even on those last three records, which I I would and they're available.
00:45:02
So go listen to la dania sapphire and congo square um They're
00:45:09
really really they're like team.
00:45:10
They're Really solid Teena Marie records where she was still writing
00:45:15
and producing and doing all the things just Nobody else like her
00:45:20
DJ Sir Daniel: I had a great time on this conversation because I
00:45:22
knew we were going to have fun.
00:45:24
And we love everybody that has come through and has stuck around for
00:45:28
this conversation the whole time.
00:45:30
So thank you for that.
00:45:31
Thank you for joining us.
00:45:32
But before we get up out of here, Jay Ray, please let the people
00:45:34
know, the people that have just joined us, let them know who we are.
00:45:39
What we get on and where they get it
00:45:42
Jay Ray: Yeah, so thank you all so much for just tuning into Queue
00:45:46
Points and hanging out with us.
00:45:48
If you want that shirt that Sir Daniel has on, that is our
00:45:51
Slow Jams Can Heal Us shirt.
00:45:52
If you visit the Queue Points store, we have that and many other things.
00:45:57
Mugs and bags and the whole thing that you can check out in the store.
00:46:01
So we highly encourage you to Go over there.
00:46:03
It helps to keep these lights on.
00:46:05
You see how we're, we're illuminated and how we are sound good.
00:46:09
That helps us to do all of those things.
00:46:11
So you could do that over there.
00:46:13
Um, but if you can hear us, if you can see us, you are doing the first
00:46:17
amazing thing and that is tuning in.
00:46:19
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00:46:23
Cause if you love it, they will love it too.
00:46:26
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00:46:28
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That's Q U E U E points.
00:46:30
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00:46:31
And, um, also visit our magazine.
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00:46:42
DJ Sir Daniel: that about does it.
00:46:43
I love it.
00:46:44
Listen, in this life, you have a choice.
00:46:47
You can either pick up the needle or you can let the record play.
00:46:50
I am warm and peaceful DJ, sir, Daniel,
00:46:55
Jay Ray: And I am Starchild Jay Ray.
00:47:00
DJ Sir Daniel: and this is Queue Points podcast, dropping the
00:47:04
needle on black music history.
00:47:07
Thank you so much.
00:47:08
And we will see you on the next go round.
00:47:09
Peace.
00:47:10
Jay Ray: Peace y'all.