The Black Famous Legacy of Teena Marie

Episode Transcript

*DISCLAIMER: Transcripts are created using AI, and may not accurately represent the content exactly as presented. Transcripts are provided as a courtesy to our listeners who require them.

00:00:00
Jay Ray: Hey, what's up good people.

00:00:01
It's Jay Ray, the co host of QPoints.

00:00:03
And I wanted to come to you because there are two really important

00:00:06
ways that you can support our show.

00:00:08
One is by subscribing to it, wherever you listen to, or watch your podcast.

00:00:13
QPoints is pretty much everywhere.

00:00:15
The other thing that you can do is you can visit us on Apple podcasts.

00:00:19
On Spotify and on pod chaser, and you can leave us a star rating,

00:00:24
please rate us five stars because you know, you love Q points and on Apple

00:00:30
podcasts and on pod chaser, you can actually leave us a written review.

00:00:35
It's not required, but it really does help to spread the word about the show and it

00:00:39
helps people to discover it as they're looking for new podcasts to listen to.

00:00:43
We're always appreciative of you supporting QPoints.

00:00:46
We thank you so much for all that you've done for us so far and enjoy the show.

00:01:21
DJ Sir Daniel: Peace and welcome back to another episode of Queue Points podcast.

00:01:24
I am DJ Sir Daniel.

00:01:26
Jay Ray: And my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my government

00:01:30
as Johnny Ray Cornegay, the third, what's happening folks.

00:01:36
DJ Sir Daniel: Y'all Queue Points podcast is the podcast dropping

00:01:39
the needle on black music history.

00:01:41
And this episode is on.

00:01:43
Not unlike the others.

00:01:45
We are about to have a great time with this conversation.

00:01:50
I see people in the comment section already.

00:01:53
People have been hitting us up on the socials have been really

00:01:56
responding to the, the graphics.

00:01:59
And thank you.

00:01:59
Thank you so much for reposting those kinds of things.

00:02:02
I was telling Jerry the other day, I don't get tired.

00:02:06
Of seeing y'all show us some love.

00:02:07
I, you know, I'm just be honest with you.

00:02:09
It does.

00:02:10
It makes me, it makes us feel good.

00:02:12
So please keep doing that.

00:02:14
We, we appreciate it.

00:02:15
We really do.

00:02:17
Jerry, please let the people know how they can see all our social media posts and

00:02:22
all the wonderful things, the graphics and pretty videos that we'd be putting out.

00:02:26
Jay Ray: And merch!

00:02:27
You see how DJ Sir Daniel is wearing the Slow Jams Can Heal Us merch?

00:02:32
I still ain't got my mug.

00:02:33
Child, I don't know why I use my Slow Jams Can Heal Us mug every day.

00:02:40
And I have two of them, but when it's time to do the show,

00:02:43
they're never in this room.

00:02:44
But they're here throughout the day when I'm doing my stuff.

00:02:47
Anyway, Let's start there.

00:02:50
One of the things that you can do is if you're like, listen, I

00:02:53
really love Queue Points and I want to support those brothers.

00:02:56
Go on over and to our store at store.

00:02:59
Queue Points.

00:03:00
com.

00:03:00
That's Q U E U E points.

00:03:03
com.

00:03:04
And you can Buy some merch, including the Slow Jams Can Heal Us line.

00:03:09
We actually have a pride version, two pride versions of Slow Jams Can Heal Us.

00:03:16
So as we're coming up into June to pride month, you can rock some Queue

00:03:18
Points and some, some gear for that.

00:03:21
So that's to help us keep these lights on, right?

00:03:25
If.

00:03:26
You are listening to us.

00:03:28
If you are seeing our faces, that is the most important thing that you can do.

00:03:34
That means you are listening.

00:03:35
You are watching.

00:03:36
It is absolutely free and it is the most important thing.

00:03:40
And if you can do us a solid and hit the subscribe button, wherever you are, or.

00:03:46
And, not and, not or, and share the show with your friends,

00:03:51
your colleagues, your family.

00:03:53
If you really love Queue Points, chances are they will love Queue Points too.

00:03:57
That is also free and you should also join our mailing list.

00:04:01
So if you visit our website, there's the whole pop up so you

00:04:06
could join the mailing list.

00:04:07
You can also join us over on our blog at magazine.

00:04:11
Queue Points.

00:04:12
com and you could get all things Queue Points delivered to you.

00:04:16
We so happy that y'all are here.

00:04:17
Shout us out in the chat to let us know for those that are joining live

00:04:21
Um, let us know where you're joining in from we would love to know.

00:04:24
DJ Sir Daniel: That's right.

00:04:25
Excellent.

00:04:26
so, You know, most of these topics, all of these topics come about when Jerry

00:04:30
and I just get to talking, especially during our, um, our, um, Our Sunday

00:04:34
meetings to talk about the show.

00:04:37
And one of the spur, I guess, splinter meetings or conversations that we were

00:04:42
having while we were talking about cowboy Carter and how, you know, the, the

00:04:47
people are really, but her about Beyonce, this black woman doing country music.

00:04:53
And, you know, she needs to stay in hip hop and R and B and,

00:04:56
you know, stay in your place is basically what they're saying.

00:05:00
Stay, stay over there with all the other black stuff.

00:05:05
I just thought it was so interesting, the dynamics of how when white artists come

00:05:12
on over and dip their toes into, into Blackland, into the, into the, into the

00:05:20
lakes, into the waters of late Minnetonka, and think, you know, and, you know,

00:05:24
And do all the things, you know, they adapt the black scent, you know, start

00:05:29
wearing Jordans, you know, start wearing throwback skirts and, you know, they,

00:05:34
they come over and they have a good time.

00:05:36
They, they develop a weed habit all of a sudden, and they just

00:05:40
come over and have a great time.

00:05:42
But here's, but here's the caveat for me.

00:05:45
And I've said this many times on this show, I am not one for giving out

00:05:50
free passes to the, to the cookout.

00:05:52
I, the cookout is not carte blanche for everybody.

00:05:56
For me, if it's, if I'm at the cookout, I'm checking IDs,

00:06:02
how'd you find out about us?

00:06:03
Who sent you here?

00:06:05
You know, who, who did you come with?

00:06:07
All of that stuff.

00:06:08
Jay Ray: Yes.

00:06:09
So it's interesting that you, you, uh, you mentioned this because I think

00:06:15
what those folks who dip their toe.

00:06:18
Over on our side, right?

00:06:20
Also oftentimes end up just leaving and going to do Whatever it is

00:06:26
that they're going to do once they reach their level of success.

00:06:30
We've seen it a million times remember when Justin Timberlake right who just

00:06:36
made R& B albums forever decided you know what I'm going to the woods Now,

00:06:44
I, I'm gonna revisit this record.

00:06:46
Um, Sybar, you know the secret.

00:06:48
I'mma just, I'mma just tell everybody the secret.

00:06:50
You know the secret because I've told you.

00:06:52
I actually like the new Justin Timberlake record.

00:06:55
That's another story.

00:06:57
So I said it out loud.

00:06:59
I feel free now.

00:07:00
That's no longer

00:07:01
DJ Sir Daniel: You come out.

00:07:02
You come out as a,

00:07:04
Jay Ray: I'll

00:07:04
DJ Sir Daniel: as a fan of this Justin record.

00:07:06
Jay Ray: of this just in record and many just in records longer story.

00:07:10
It's a guilty pleasure, but the point is many of these artists, what they do do

00:07:15
is they dip their toe in and then they leave and they go and do something else.

00:07:20
The unique thing though, about the artists that we're talking

00:07:23
about tonight, Sir Daniel

00:07:25
DJ Sir Daniel: Mm hmm.

00:07:26
Jay Ray: is She just dove in and stayed and kept swimming on this side

00:07:37
DJ Sir Daniel: And she became what is known as Black Famous.

00:07:41
She is very So I guess, J.

00:07:45
Rey, okay, what is your definition of Black Famous?

00:07:48
Jay Ray: black famous is an individual who is pretty much universally famous

00:07:57
famous among black folks, just generally across generations, but you literally

00:08:06
can talk to people outside of black culture that have no idea who they are.

00:08:11
And meanwhile, you're like, how could you not know who insert artist

00:08:16
here is that to me is black famous.

00:08:19
What about for you?

00:08:21
DJ Sir Daniel: No, I, your definition is perfect.

00:08:24
I don't have anything to add on to that because, and there's only, I will say

00:08:28
there's only a handful of people like

00:08:30
Jay Ray: Yep.

00:08:31
DJ Sir Daniel: There's only a handful of people like that.

00:08:32
And, um, Yeah, when I think of like Gary Owens, you know, comedian, literally

00:08:40
the probably him being on the Wendy Williams show is probably like exposed

00:08:44
him to more white people than he's ever been exposed to as a comedian.

00:08:48
But of course, he got his start in the.

00:08:50
The black clubs, you got to start on BET and let's, you know, the artists that

00:08:55
we're speaking about featuring on the show, of course, is none other than Mr.

00:09:01
Miss white chocolate soul herself, Teena Marie and Tina, like Jerry said, Teena

00:09:07
Marie has the distinction of standing 10 toes on big business and staying

00:09:13
in the lane of being black famous.

00:09:17
And, you know, we're just going to have a conversation about that.

00:09:19
Like Queue Points.

00:09:21
always does.

00:09:23
Jay Ray: Real quick, Sir Daniel.

00:09:25
Um, I think we also, this is Tina, of course, Teena Marie would be the

00:09:31
person that would be this person.

00:09:33
Teena Marie is the first white artist that we featured on Queue

00:09:40
Points in our over 100 shows.

00:09:43
We've never featured on Queue Points a white artist.

00:09:50
DJ Sir Daniel: That is true.

00:09:50
Because, well, I mean, you know, Queue Points, we, we center blackness,

00:09:54
we center black music history.

00:09:57
But of course, Teena Marie is one of those anomalies that has come in, came in on a

00:10:04
black label, got signed to a black label.

00:10:07
Famous label

00:10:09
Jay Ray: Mm-Hmm.

00:10:10
DJ Sir Daniel: and continued and doubled down and did the work.

00:10:14
And I think that might be the key to her staying power.

00:10:18
But Jerry, I think you should just break it down for, you know, the young people

00:10:22
that might be tuning in and we appreciate you for listening while you listen to

00:10:26
the uncles, the uncles over here, talk about all this old hip, all this old R

00:10:30
and B and music stuff, but just break it down for them about Teena Marie.

00:10:35
And, um, who she is, we know, you know, some of her music, but take it away,

00:10:39
Jay Ray: Yeah.

00:10:40
So, um, Teena Marie, to your earlier point, sir Daniel is kind of an anomaly.

00:10:45
So let me just make something perfectly clear.

00:10:48
Teena Marie's birth name is Mary Christine Brockert.

00:10:54
I wanna say it again.

00:10:55
Teena Marie's birth name, is Mary Christine Brockert.

00:11:02
She is definitely a, she was definitely a white woman.

00:11:05
Okay.

00:11:05
Let's be

00:11:07
DJ Sir Daniel: very

00:11:08
Jay Ray: clear about it, right.

00:11:10
So, of course, she began singing at a very young age, um, as the, I went

00:11:17
back and I watched the, her unsung and, um, Harry Belafonte and Dale

00:11:23
was like the first thing that she remembers singing as a child, which

00:11:27
apparently embarrassed her mother.

00:11:29
It was apparently very embarrassing to have little Mary Christine.

00:11:34
DJ Sir Daniel: Yeah.

00:11:34
Cause that's a, that's a work song,

00:11:36
Jay Ray: Right, right, right, right.

00:11:38
Exactly right to have singing the song so born in Santa Monica, California, um,

00:11:46
spent all of her time, of course, um, in California and began as a singer, but

00:11:54
also Teena Marie has the distinction of being a multi instrumentalist, right?

00:11:58
So.

00:11:59
As she began to kind of, uh, develop as a musician, she formed bands because

00:12:06
that's the thing that people did like, and we talk about that a lot on this

00:12:09
show, Sir Daniel, the importance of bands

00:12:13
DJ Sir Daniel: Absolutely.

00:12:13
Jay Ray: you, and what you learn, right?

00:12:15
So she, of course, um, formed a number of bands, uh, before, uh,

00:12:21
kind of capturing the ear of Berry Gordy and Motown, um, in the 1970s.

00:12:29
And what I think is really important.

00:12:33
I think there's a couple of things, um, that set Tina up.

00:12:38
Um, And it's contextual.

00:12:41
I don't have any hard research on this, but I think these are important things

00:12:44
to keep in mind by 19 by the late 1970s.

00:12:51
Um, as Tina is preparing to release her debut album.

00:12:55
Um, Motown has been in L.

00:12:58
A.

00:12:58
for at least eight years or so, since the early 1970s.

00:13:03
They are changing.

00:13:04
So, Motown had even released I Was Born This Way.

00:13:09
Motown has The Commodores now.

00:13:11
Motown has Rick James now, right?

00:13:13
This Motown sound that is ingrained in the DNA of a Black culture

00:13:18
was changing in the late 1970s.

00:13:19
This Motown sound that is ingrained in the DNA of a Black culture

00:13:23
was changing in the late 1970s.

00:13:25
And also black folks were experiencing, um, uh, a bit of a heyday, right?

00:13:34
So this is post civil rights.

00:13:37
Disco is churning.

00:13:38
Folks is making a coin.

00:13:40
You know, we got black movie stars and black everything, right?

00:13:43
We got black mayors around the country.

00:13:46
Um, and so Teena Marie Enters, uh, our popular music lexicon at a time

00:13:55
when there was room for her, right?

00:13:58
There was room for this white woman to who we didn't know was white at first.

00:14:04
Cause of course Motown hit her y'all Motown hit her picture.

00:14:10
Wasn't on the

00:14:10
DJ Sir Daniel: what they did, what other labels were doing

00:14:15
back in the race record days.

00:14:17
They, instead of putting the artists on the cover, they did

00:14:21
some very abstract art and had her eyes in the clouds and whatnot.

00:14:26
So you didn't, didn't know they weren't releasing like, um, Those headshots,

00:14:32
Jay Ray: hmm.

00:14:33
DJ Sir Daniel: headshots.

00:14:34
They probably only released them to people that needed to know like the, um, the

00:14:37
radio stations and whatnot, but I'm sure she wasn't on the cover of like Tiger

00:14:41
beat magazine or anything like that.

00:14:44
Jay Ray: no.

00:14:44
Right.

00:14:45
So.

00:14:46
She comes and she emerges with this first album and people really not knowing

00:14:53
what this woman even sounded like, only knowing that this song was jamming.

00:14:58
It had Rick James on it.

00:15:00
I'm a sucker for your love.

00:15:01
We getting into it.

00:15:03
And, uh, I think it's also important for us to underscore as we jump into this

00:15:07
conversation that we likely would not be talking about Teena Marie had Rick

00:15:14
James not swooped her up and said to Mr.

00:15:19
Gordy, I want to work with that little white girl.

00:15:22
I want to work with her, right?

00:15:25
We would not be having this Teena Marie conversation as talented as she was.

00:15:29
It was that Rick James sauce at the beginning that.

00:15:35
Allowed us to be introduced to her.

00:15:39
DJ Sir Daniel: Well, that's the power of the black co sign, right?

00:15:41
The black co sign is what.

00:15:45
You know, to your earlier point made Justin Timberlake

00:15:50
popular in black households.

00:15:53
Oh, that white boy can dance, that white boy can sing.

00:15:55
He can play the piano.

00:15:59
you know, it's the cosign that, who had a really dope cosign?

00:16:05
Um, Mm.

00:16:07
You know, Madonna had her co sign from Sheik from now, now Rogers.

00:16:13
Um, there's plenty, plenty of artists that got a co sign from, you know,

00:16:19
if we talk about, we're going to talk about this later, but we could talk

00:16:22
about people, um, rappers like Terry B and, um, Vanilla Ice didn't have

00:16:28
one, but the Young Black Teenagers.

00:16:31
And just to say that the co sign Is a very for the community and that's why I that's

00:16:38
why I have such a visceral reaction to these cookout questions and and why and

00:16:44
why do you think Jerry we are just so open and willing to allow somebody that to, in

00:16:51
my opinion, is able sometimes is able to mimic, you know, Um, flavor, um, to mimic

00:16:59
blackness, to mimic the singing, because, you know, we're, we can be dramatic.

00:17:04
We can be very performative, uh, in our performances.

00:17:10
And sometimes that I feel like people feel like they can parody that and

00:17:14
they can make a mockery of it and get some type of recognition for that.

00:17:20
Okay.

00:17:21
Jay Ray: I agree with that.

00:17:22
I also, I also wonder if because blackness has been so demonized that we appreciate

00:17:42
when someone outside of the culture sees us and wants to be part of it.

00:17:51
Right.

00:17:53
I think that's, and I'm literally, I've only been, um, as I was getting

00:17:58
ready for this show, kind of like wondering what that is, knowing that

00:18:01
this was going to be part of it.

00:18:02
But I do wonder if that's the case where we're willing to like invite you in

00:18:08
because you see us, you are here with us.

00:18:12
And, um, you doing it like we do it and other and, and feeling like other,

00:18:19
the world doesn't see us like that.

00:18:23
Um, and I think we've gotten more sophisticated and recognizing when

00:18:30
people are doing it and there are being performative and when people are

00:18:34
doing it because it's who they are.

00:18:37
And that's why I think Teena Marie is actually unique because.

00:18:42
This was just what she was doing in all the times she

00:18:47
could have done something else.

00:18:50
And Barry Gordy even said in the unsung, like Tina was like really talented.

00:18:54
She could have kind of done whatever she wanted to do.

00:18:58
This was the lane.

00:18:59
Like I'm a stay in this R and B, this soul R and B lane.

00:19:03
This is what I'm going to do.

00:19:04
And so let's go tapestry.

00:19:07
It's

00:19:08
DJ Sir Daniel: is what she loved.

00:19:09
This is what she felt comfortable with.

00:19:11
Um, and her influences were there.

00:19:14
And yes, and like, in that same unsung, Teena Marie looked like, Okay, if

00:19:19
you all are familiar with the Carole King, album cover, um, tapestry.

00:19:28
Absolutely.

00:19:29
Tina.

00:19:30
That's what Teena Marie looked like a very kind of crunchy granola, you

00:19:35
know, the, the pup, the puffed out wavy hair, you know, pair of bell

00:19:39
bottoms, real kind of granola, but which is par for the course for that.

00:19:44
Decade.

00:19:45
It was the late sixties, early seventies, and that's what she looked like.

00:19:49
And, but she was making the music to your point.

00:19:51
Like Barry Gordon was like, nah, she's dope.

00:19:53
She she's really churning out all these songs and hits.

00:19:57
She's churning them out by herself because she's a fully developed artist,

00:20:03
writer, composer, all of that stuff.

00:20:06
But, um, you know, to the point.

00:20:09
If Rick James wanted to work with her, Rick James gave her

00:20:12
this sauce and swagged her out.

00:20:14
Because by the time she got on American Bandstand and Soul Train specifically,

00:20:20
you know, mama was had on her, her skinny disco pants and a glittery top

00:20:26
and was like, you know, popping and doing the latest dances and whatnot, because

00:20:30
I'm sure she got a little training.

00:20:32
Jay Ray: Yes, you know, so one of the things I'm sure was very

00:20:37
clear to Motown is that this woman cannot go into these spaces.

00:20:43
Motown is all about selling a record, right?

00:20:46
Um, this woman cannot go into these spaces and choke, right?

00:20:50
She gotta be ready to go into these spaces and perform.

00:20:54
So I agree.

00:20:55
I'm sure there was very much a lot of preparation.

00:21:00
I am certain That Rick was part of a lot of that training.

00:21:07
You know what I'm saying?

00:21:08
Um, because she just had to be able to do it.

00:21:12
And if you're gonna hit the road and go out on the road with Rick James

00:21:15
in the Stone City Band, try by fire.

00:21:19
I can't imagine.

00:21:21
DJ Sir Daniel: It requires, it requires some toughness.

00:21:23
It really does, especially the women, because at that point, the women

00:21:28
were really just backup singers.

00:21:31
And, you know, they're for eye candy and for, you know, jump offs for

00:21:36
afterwards, but she's in the forefront.

00:21:40
So to your point, she's got to show and prove like, Oh no, I'm here.

00:21:44
And you know, sometimes black crowds can be really tough, you know, Apollo style.

00:21:49
So her first goal is to win over each crowd.

00:21:53
And clearly she was able to do that.

00:21:55
And And I just think it's so funny.

00:21:58
I still think about the cosign and, you know, being adaptable to, to black

00:22:03
culture, to, to, to black sense and to, to speaking, it reminds me of that airplane

00:22:09
movie from the eighties airplane, where.

00:22:13
Where the, there's two black gentlemen flying on the plane and this, the

00:22:18
flight attendant is trying her hardest to understand what he's saying because

00:22:22
he's feeling sick and he needs help.

00:22:25
And the flight attendant is just like, I want to help, but I just

00:22:28
don't understand what he's saying.

00:22:30
And then the mother from Lever to Beaver, Barbara Billingsley leans

00:22:36
over to the flight attendant.

00:22:38
Excuse me.

00:22:40
Maybe I can help.

00:22:41
I speak jive and it is the funniest, you know, it's wrong, but it's

00:22:48
still funny at the same time.

00:22:50
Cause she's something, what it is, black.

00:22:52
What going on?

00:22:53
I was coming some say and never, he's like, all right, Hey,

00:22:57
little mama, cut me some slack.

00:22:58
My mom, you know, la la la la.

00:23:00
And then the funniest thing at the end is like, he's like,

00:23:04
man, little mama, go ahead on.

00:23:05
I don't need your help.

00:23:06
And she's like, Chump don't want no help.

00:23:09
Chump don't get no help.

00:23:11
Jive Turkey.

00:23:13
Foolishness!

00:23:14
Jay Ray: Airplane.

00:23:16
Oh my God, this movie could not happen in

00:23:19
DJ Sir Daniel: In 2024.

00:23:20
Jay Ray: 2024.

00:23:22
It, it, listen, we can laugh now.

00:23:25
I haven't seen airplane in years.

00:23:28
I actually, I would probably still laugh.

00:23:29
It was, it was, I remember it being really funny.

00:23:31
It would probably still be really funny.

00:23:33
But, um.

00:23:35
To that point right so in even just thinking about Tina and even

00:23:39
her musical trajectory, right?

00:23:41
So you get these first two albums?

00:23:45
One album one is written and produced by Rick James.

00:23:48
So Rick James is all over it.

00:23:50
I'm just a sucker for your love Deja vu is on that record though.

00:23:54
I've been here before baby.

00:23:56
That's song.

00:23:57
That's a song song, right and then There's an interesting so Tina

00:24:03
is having to do this thing where it's like every year there's an

00:24:06
album So then eight so that's 79.

00:24:09
Do you have 80?

00:24:10
With lady t lady t is produced by richard rudolph husband of minnie

00:24:15
riperton father of maya rudolph um and Motown hires richard rudolph.

00:24:23
So done working with rick.

00:24:25
We're gonna hire richard and then richard is like I mean You Sure, but this,

00:24:32
this woman don't need our help, right?

00:24:35
DJ Sir Daniel: She's got

00:24:36
Jay Ray: She could do this on her own, just let her fly.

00:24:39
And it's that third album, Irons in the Fire, where Sir

00:24:46
Daniel, I need your love, man.

00:24:50
Listen.

00:24:52
And we.

00:24:52
Young love is on there.

00:24:55
We then fully understand what's possible.

00:24:59
And that record was written and produced by Teena Marie.

00:25:03
Um, and she plays a bunch of stuff.

00:25:05
She writes, you know, all the stuff she produces, the whole thing.

00:25:09
Um, her band is Ozone, which was like a huge, uh, important

00:25:16
backing band at Motown.

00:25:17
So she has like this crack band.

00:25:21
She is writing these songs and producing them, and it's the first time that she

00:25:26
kind of branches out and we get to hear what a Teena Marie song sounds like.

00:25:32
Do, do, do.

00:25:34
DJ Sir Daniel: And so, and this is where the show improved comes in because

00:25:39
now you've got songs that have entered the lexicon, the black lexicon of.

00:25:47
Music.

00:25:48
You become, she has become a part of our lives because you throw on

00:25:53
square biz, specifically square biz.

00:25:57
I don't, I don't know what it is.

00:25:58
I think it's the horns.

00:26:00
It sounds very celebratory.

00:26:03
And I don't know.

00:26:04
It's just funky, it's just funky, it's a funky record, and it just has that

00:26:09
stick to itiveness that the culture, the community, will not let that song go.

00:26:15
Jay Ray: Yeah, no, I agree, you know square biz and I just thought about this

00:26:19
Square biz is one of those unique songs that has you kind of fall into it because

00:26:24
you know, she gives you the way And it

00:26:29
DJ Sir Daniel: attention right at the beginning.

00:26:30
Jay Ray: and it rides into the groove and you got all of that.

00:26:35
So I feel like, but you're right in the stick to itiveness of square biz

00:26:42
because that song of all the Teena Marie songs, and it's not even her

00:26:46
biggest hit, but it's her most enduring classic where across generations,

00:26:53
so Daniel, when you and I were, um, At uh, Jeremy Avalon's party.

00:26:58
DJ Sir Daniel: Absolutely.

00:26:59
Jay Ray: high key disco in Atlanta.

00:27:01
You, we're seeing your uncle, me, Uncle J Rand, Uncle Sir Daniel is up in here.

00:27:07
Just the oldest.

00:27:07
We are, we are here.

00:27:10
We're the oldest brothers up in here, right?

00:27:12
But these young people are getting it to square

00:27:15
DJ Sir Daniel: The young people were throwing down to square biz,

00:27:19
and I don't even think I don't even know that they have a real concept

00:27:24
of they don't have the concept.

00:27:26
They don't have the background of square biz and what those

00:27:31
parties, what it means to parties.

00:27:33
But what it was is that it's just this.

00:27:36
Sonically, it's just a great song and it's a great groove and they, regardless

00:27:42
of how old you are, it pulls you in.

00:27:45
And that's exactly, that's the hallmark of a great song and great music.

00:27:49
And we, yes, Jay Ray and I witnessed it.

00:27:52
And funny enough, you bring that up.

00:27:54
I wonder.

00:27:56
But those same young people, because, you know, young people can be really critical.

00:28:00
And I wonder if Teena Marie was a 2020s artist that was coming out,

00:28:07
would people be so open to embrace her?

00:28:11
Would she be considered problematic, trying to appropriate, you

00:28:16
know, is she a culture vulture?

00:28:18
I'm wondering, would she be readily accepted today as say she was back then?

00:28:24
I

00:28:26
Jay Ray: You know, you know, that is a really good question.

00:28:29
And honestly,

00:28:33
I don't know that an artist like Teena Marie could even make it today.

00:28:37
I don't know that there's room for, I don't know that she could get out

00:28:44
the gate is what I'm really saying.

00:28:46
Like, I don't know that with all of that talent.

00:28:52
I don't know that she could get really far.

00:28:54
She might get a first album.

00:28:56
Hell, she might even get a second album.

00:29:00
But I don't know that we have the

00:29:06
Back then, yeah, Bandwidth, back then, there was room.

00:29:11
Like, there was an opportunity to give people a chance.

00:29:14
And I think we're fortunate that we were able to get her when we did,

00:29:20
because yeah, just, I don't know.

00:29:22
And I'm curious to know with folks, for those that are joining

00:29:24
us live, uh, what, what are your, what are your thoughts on that?

00:29:28
Could Teena Marie, uh, an artist like that even work today?

00:29:34
I don't know that there's an appetite for, for two things.

00:29:39
One, the style of music and the heavy instrumentation, right?

00:29:43
Cause these songs are composed.

00:29:46
Um, but also to your point, like just the white woman in black culture,

00:29:52
steeped in black culture in that way.

00:29:55
I think it would be a hard pill to swallow from a, um, from a, from a

00:30:00
musical perspective, because is there.

00:30:02
Today who we've tried it.

00:30:07
We tried it with Iggy Azalea.

00:30:08
It didn't work out.

00:30:10
DJ Sir Daniel: we?

00:30:11
Jay Ray: Well, we didn't

00:30:12
DJ Sir Daniel: I don't know if that, that's kind of, that's

00:30:14
apples to kiwis right there.

00:30:16
I don't know about that, about Iggy Azalea.

00:30:19
That's not the first comparison you want to

00:30:21
Jay Ray: Right, so maybe not Iggy, you know, you love that freestyle sir.

00:30:26
Daniel when she was up there

00:30:27
DJ Sir Daniel: Please stop that.

00:30:28
Stop it right now.

00:30:32
Because, like, even, uh, even like, um, you can't even compare.

00:30:36
You can't compare her to Madonna.

00:30:37
That's because they can't almost came around around the

00:30:40
Jay Ray: They're very similar time frames

00:30:42
DJ Sir Daniel: yeah.

00:30:44
I don't know who they're Alicia.

00:30:47
Well, yeah, that's going to be, that's a, that's a hard comparison.

00:30:51
Again, anybody in the chat that's watching this live, let us know what you're, if

00:30:55
you think there's anybody that could compare to a Teena Marie today, or

00:31:00
whether or not you believe Teena Marie, as we know her could make it as an

00:31:06
artist in the 20, in the twenties, the roaring twenties and the way music is.

00:31:12
presented and, um, but also in this climate of people, you know,

00:31:18
safeguarding and, and, um, policing blackness, um, and black culture and

00:31:24
calling out appropriation at any time that when they see it, cause you know,

00:31:29
with social media, oh, it's going to be, it'll probably be a rap for her.

00:31:33
The first time she comes out with her hair, with her hair tightly coiled like

00:31:36
that and wearing some cockleshells, it's probably going to be a rap for her.

00:31:41
Like, who is that?

00:31:42
And what is she trying

00:31:42
Jay Ray: what is she trying?

00:31:43
I absolutely agree and um, even just thinking of the songs themselves So I

00:31:49
think less so since we were on square biz, I think we stay with that record,

00:31:54
which is her fourth album It must be magic which has square biz on it,

00:31:59
which also has My favorite Teena Marie song on it, which is portuguese love

00:32:06
DJ Sir Daniel: Hmm.

00:32:08
Jay Ray: Which was which was it a single?

00:32:11
I think it was the last single from the record, but it's really just a quiet

00:32:15
storm staple And even just thinking about that song right where she's

00:32:22
singing about this night She fell in love in Portugal with which without

00:32:27
which with possibly a man of Portuguese background I I Even that song is so funny.

00:32:35
I'm like, I don't even know if that could happen today, right?

00:32:37
Could we do Portuguese love?

00:32:40
DJ Sir Daniel: Could we even do that?

00:32:42
She's lucky.

00:32:44
We're lucky that she was around and came around in the time frame, the

00:32:48
time span that she did, because she was allowed to cook as an artist

00:32:52
and to, and had the freedom that we would allow people to back then.

00:32:57
But yeah, nowadays, I don't know.

00:32:59
And even sometimes like I, I, I give it up for Teena Marie.

00:33:03
I enjoy her music as well.

00:33:05
As she's.

00:33:06
meant a lot to hip hop, but sometimes those vocals, and I

00:33:12
think we can say this here on cue

00:33:14
Jay Ray: We can

00:33:15
DJ Sir Daniel: those vocals, they, you know, there were some times when

00:33:19
I was like, Hmm, you know, you know, there was a little trail in her voice

00:33:24
at times and it was, it was doing, it was doing a lot sometimes, but I

00:33:29
think, I think the earnestly in which she was singing and the lyrics mama

00:33:35
could, she could paint a picture.

00:33:38
She definitely could.

00:33:39
And I think that that is her saving grace and all of her other talents,

00:33:44
of course, are the saving grace.

00:33:47
So I think we kind of kind of look past some of those little shrilly moments

00:33:51
that she would have, and that's okay.

00:33:53
Because all of, even artists that we love, or black artists, there's some

00:33:57
black artists, and I'm not gonna name names, but they, they have given us some

00:34:01
questionable vocal, uh, performances.

00:34:04
But we love them down.

00:34:06
We dare anybody to say anything about, you know, auntie or uncle.

00:34:10
We love them down.

00:34:11
And that's that

00:34:12
Jay Ray: Yeah.

00:34:13
And I think the thing to keep in mind, even cause as I was revisiting

00:34:18
Tina's catalog, You know, I had to remember that also as a vocal stylist.

00:34:29
DJ Sir Daniel: A song

00:34:30
Jay Ray: A song stylist.

00:34:32
had a unique delivery, right?

00:34:35
Her, her, her voice.

00:34:36
There's not another voice like that.

00:34:39
You know what I'm saying?

00:34:40
Like it was a unique delivery.

00:34:43
And fortunately, to your point, it.

00:34:48
It arrived at a period of time where, um, the combination of the

00:34:53
lyrics, the musicality, and all of those things gave it room to

00:34:58
be able to like move a little bit.

00:35:01
And, I mean, from a storytelling perspective, Um, I mean, listen,

00:35:06
she wrote Casanova Brown about Rick James, about this man who had all

00:35:12
of these women around, but she was still in love with this person.

00:35:16
So she writes this song about a person that is a superstar that we all know and

00:35:24
releases it and it becomes its own hit.

00:35:28
That's not to be messed with.

00:35:31
DJ Sir Daniel: it isn't, and you know, to her.

00:35:34
to her credit, she was able to hang with Rick on possibly the biggest song that

00:35:39
they're both a part of, and that's Fire and Desire, because they didn't, and

00:35:44
now, and in all honesty, Rick has some questionable moments, some questionable

00:35:48
vocal, vocal moments on that song as well, but it's still a classic.

00:35:53
It's still a karaoke, you know, you kill a karaoke with that one.

00:35:57
It's a great duet is dramatic as hell.

00:36:01
So it checks off all the boxes that people, you know, that people go

00:36:05
up for, for a song and what makes it a classic and she hung with him.

00:36:10
And when, and their live performances is really what sells it, you know,

00:36:15
the, and the drama is there, you know, the backs turn to each other and the

00:36:20
singing to each other, you can't, you know, you can't fake all of that.

00:36:25
You, you really have to really believe in yourself and believe in.

00:36:30
the song and still and have some type of relationship with the person

00:36:35
that you are having that duet with.

00:36:37
And so you can't fake any of that.

00:36:40
And I think that is the crux of what we're saying on Queue Points

00:36:44
is that Tina is an anomaly in the sense that she never faked anything.

00:36:51
She was always true to her, you know, to her love for the community.

00:36:56
And I think that's what kept her, um, in.

00:37:01
In the graces of the black community, like when she passed away, I think if,

00:37:08
and I might get some flack for this, if they were still doing those paintings of,

00:37:13
um, Jesus, Martin Luther King, Malcolm X and JFK, those kind of paintings

00:37:19
that were always in black households and have all the montage of all the

00:37:24
black people that have passed away.

00:37:25
Teena Marie is.

00:37:27
Definitely in one of those paintings and that you find in black households paying

00:37:32
homage to all of our fallen, um, heroes.

00:37:36
She's definitely in there.

00:37:38
Jay Ray: That tickles me so

00:37:40
DJ Sir Daniel: You know what I'm talking about?

00:37:42
Y'all know exactly the paintings.

00:37:43
If I promise you, we can go to a flea market right now and find one of those

00:37:48
instead of the, um, the last supper with Jesus and his apostles is going

00:37:52
to be the, a table full of black artists and Teena Marie at the table.

00:37:58
Um, replicating the last supper.

00:38:01
It's come on.

00:38:02
It's just what we do.

00:38:04
Jay Ray: You know what?

00:38:05
I receive that.

00:38:06
I absolutely do.

00:38:08
And I think, yeah, to your point, you know, of this, this artist being just like

00:38:13
a one of one artist where even in those times, even when she felt, even when her

00:38:18
style of music kind of fell out of favor.

00:38:22
the, in the early 1990s and, and I didn't realize this at the time,

00:38:27
but when I rewatched the unsung, she talked about the fact that she, like,

00:38:30
I chose to step away because, you know, I had a child, I was a new mom.

00:38:37
I wanted to be a mom and having a record deal would mean I need to record.

00:38:41
It would mean I need to tour and it would mean.

00:38:43
I had to be away from my daughter and I didn't want to do that and I respect it.

00:38:48
Um, two notes, Sir Daniel.

00:38:51
First note is, um, Passion Play by Teena Marie needs to be on streaming services.

00:38:57
Okay.

00:38:58
Shout out to Tina's daughter and her and her family.

00:39:02
If we could get that on streaming services for the folks, I see Carlton in the chat.

00:39:06
If I know Carlton, I know Carlton has Passion

00:39:09
DJ Sir Daniel: probably has a copy

00:39:10
Jay Ray: Carlton probably has a copy.

00:39:12
So, um, shout out to that album, which was her independent 94 record.

00:39:20
The look at Carlton in the chat.

00:39:22
I had that CD, of

00:39:23
DJ Sir Daniel: See, we, we know.

00:39:26
Jay Ray: The last thing I wanted to, um, mention, um, was.

00:39:33
There's a parallel I think to the Snoop conversation that we had late last year

00:39:40
in Teena Marie her her her last well two of her last three albums were on cash

00:39:47
money, which I remember at the time being very weird but then Those records just

00:39:56
sounded like Teena Marie records, like they didn't, they sounded nothing like

00:40:00
what Cash Money was doing because they were written and produced by Teena Marie.

00:40:05
So she was essentially just doing 2000s, Teena Marie songs.

00:40:10
And I appreciate that so much that I'm sure baby and them was just happy

00:40:16
to have Teena Marie on the label.

00:40:18
DJ Sir Daniel: Right.

00:40:19
Jay Ray: But this idea of Teena Marie doing the Southern reset.

00:40:24
Right, because it had been 94 Passion Play comes out, uh, look, the Danya comes

00:40:31
out in like 2005, you know what I'm 2006.

00:40:35
So it had been over a decade and she was able to do that in the South.

00:40:40
And then her final record was on stacks after they re kind of started

00:40:44
that label, which is again, another Southern label, um, where Teena Marie.

00:40:50
Was able to still be Teena Marie, but do it in the South and be able

00:40:56
to have Smokey Robinson, guesting on two songs on the Sapphire record.

00:41:02
Nobody was like doing Smokey Robinson as a featured artist in 2007 or whatever.

00:41:10
And Sapphire is a beautiful bridge building record.

00:41:14
So.

00:41:16
Saying all this to say, as she even fell kind of back and that style of

00:41:23
music that she did fell out of favor, when she got down to the South in the

00:41:28
early 2000s, she still was committed to doing Teena Marie stuff, even in

00:41:35
a modern way, which is really dope.

00:41:38
DJ Sir Daniel: Well, and I think she was given, um, Room and the platform to do

00:41:45
that because you, to your point, being signed to cash money, baby slimming

00:41:52
them, those are all Gen Xers, right?

00:41:55
Those are all people that were reared and raised on square biz on

00:42:01
behind the groove on fire and desire.

00:42:03
So we meaning the black community have an allegiance.

00:42:09
To those, to those, to that music and because you have created this

00:42:13
art that is longstanding and, um, means something to the community,

00:42:19
they're like, Oh, it's a no brainer.

00:42:20
We're going to sign, uh, Teena Marie.

00:42:23
And because Teena Marie is one of those people that embraced hip hop.

00:42:27
Hip hop embraced her back.

00:42:29
I mean, if you think about it, think about how, how connected

00:42:33
Teena Marie is to hip hop history.

00:42:36
Listen to, if you listen to Sierra's one, two step and Missy spits her rhyme.

00:42:41
What rhyme is Missy spitting?

00:42:42
She's spitting her own version of Tina's rap on square biz.

00:42:48
I'm five, one, four, four, four, four, four, four, four, four, four, four, four.

00:42:51
You know, she's doing that.

00:42:53
And that's a, that's a nod to Teena Marie.

00:42:55
And before that.

00:42:58
Um, the Fuji's biggest comeback record is Fuji La, which is an

00:43:05
interpolation of Oh la la, oh la la.

00:43:09
And so again, there's a lot of, of tying Teena Marie into, into hip hop.

00:43:16
And as we're growing up, because by that time we are in our early.

00:43:20
Late teens, early twenties, and still Teena Marie is, uh,

00:43:25
is omnipresent in our lives.

00:43:28
And we can't forget, of course, Firm Biz, the Firm, Nas, Foxy Brown,

00:43:32
and AZ, and Cormega come together to form this super hip hop group.

00:43:36
And right out the box, they came out with Firm Biz, which is a direct

00:43:41
sample and interpolation of Square Biz.

00:43:44
So again, her, because of her Loyalty and, and honesty and truthfulness to

00:43:54
the art and to herself that reads to us.

00:43:59
And I think that's why she has so much staying power and was able to, to be

00:44:05
black famous for so long, still be, um, uh, invited to the BET awards and, you

00:44:12
know, get to, you know, God bless them, get to have that last performance with

00:44:16
Rick James and, you know, and still be.

00:44:20
A viable part of the culture and not be and not be called

00:44:25
out for trying to fake the funk.

00:44:28
Jay Ray: Man, that's real talk.

00:44:30
Um, yeah, Teena Marie, definitely a one of one.

00:44:34
There is not another before and not another sense in particular when we

00:44:42
talk about folks outside of black culture doing this kind of thing.

00:44:48
Um, and listen.

00:44:51
The bops are for real like you just Teena Marie has a catalog full of

00:44:57
bops Even on those last three records, which I I would and they're available.

00:45:02
So go listen to la dania sapphire and congo square um They're

00:45:09
really really they're like team.

00:45:10
They're Really solid Teena Marie records where she was still writing

00:45:15
and producing and doing all the things just Nobody else like her

00:45:20
DJ Sir Daniel: I had a great time on this conversation because I

00:45:22
knew we were going to have fun.

00:45:24
And we love everybody that has come through and has stuck around for

00:45:28
this conversation the whole time.

00:45:30
So thank you for that.

00:45:31
Thank you for joining us.

00:45:32
But before we get up out of here, Jay Ray, please let the people

00:45:34
know, the people that have just joined us, let them know who we are.

00:45:39
What we get on and where they get it

00:45:42
Jay Ray: Yeah, so thank you all so much for just tuning into Queue

00:45:46
Points and hanging out with us.

00:45:48
If you want that shirt that Sir Daniel has on, that is our

00:45:51
Slow Jams Can Heal Us shirt.

00:45:52
If you visit the Queue Points store, we have that and many other things.

00:45:57
Mugs and bags and the whole thing that you can check out in the store.

00:46:01
So we highly encourage you to Go over there.

00:46:03
It helps to keep these lights on.

00:46:05
You see how we're, we're illuminated and how we are sound good.

00:46:09
That helps us to do all of those things.

00:46:11
So you could do that over there.

00:46:13
Um, but if you can hear us, if you can see us, you are doing the first

00:46:17
amazing thing and that is tuning in.

00:46:19
So hit subscribe wherever you are.

00:46:21
Tell your friends, family, colleagues about the show.

00:46:23
Cause if you love it, they will love it too.

00:46:26
Sign up for our newsletter at Queue Points.

00:46:28
com.

00:46:28
That's Q U E U E points.

00:46:30
com.

00:46:31
And, um, also visit our magazine.

00:46:34
That's magazine.

00:46:36
Queue Points.

00:46:37
com and stay in touch with all things Queue Points.

00:46:42
DJ Sir Daniel: that about does it.

00:46:43
I love it.

00:46:44
Listen, in this life, you have a choice.

00:46:47
You can either pick up the needle or you can let the record play.

00:46:50
I am warm and peaceful DJ, sir, Daniel,

00:46:55
Jay Ray: And I am Starchild Jay Ray.

00:47:00
DJ Sir Daniel: and this is Queue Points podcast, dropping the

00:47:04
needle on black music history.

00:47:07
Thank you so much.

00:47:08
And we will see you on the next go round.

00:47:09
Peace.

00:47:10
Jay Ray: Peace y'all.