The Wop at 40: The Greatest Hip Hop Dance Ever and the Groove of Mid-80s Black Parties

Transcript

The Wop at 40: The Greatest Hip Hop Dance Ever and the Groove of Mid-80s Black Parties

[00:00:00]

Intro Theme

Welcome to the Show

Sir Daniel: Greetings and welcome to another episode of Queue Points podcast. I am DJ Sir Daniel.

Jay Ray: And my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my governments as Johnnie Ray Kornegay III ii.

The Significance of The Wop

Jay Ray: And we're about to dip right into our childhoods because this thing here was a major dance.

And Sir Daniel, to that point, how major is this dance? What's your hot take on the, on the dance, The Wop?

Sir Daniel: So, um, this black history month, um, we are delving into dances, line dances, things that you don't really think about but are very, very important to the culture. And we want to recognize a [00:01:00] hood dance that started in, in the eighties, um, bubbled out of the golden era of rap and hip hop. And I say, I. My opinion is the quintessential hip hop dance move that never gets old.

You can still do it to this day. It's still relevant, it still looks cool, and I might sound, I might sound like an old man saying this, but The Wop is the, is the best hip hop dance. Ever. Yes, I said it. It's the best hip hop dance ever. And I believe it is. So, because there is, there's a simplicity to it, but it just, I think it just looks cool.

I think it looks cool. I think it's, um, it's easy to pick up on. Um, it could be done at various [00:02:00] speeds and, um, you don't have to. It doesn't require a whole lot of aerobic. Um, no, it doesn't require like a whole lot of aerobic, uh, a lot of aerobic, um, movement and, um, power for your body, but still it's effective.

It's, I don't know, I think it just looks cool and it just, and it's just so dope for me to see. I love seeing it in music videos.

Cultural Impact of The Wop

Sir Daniel: And, uh, what did you think of the WP.

Jay Ray: Oh my God, I love The Wop. Um, and I agree with you. I think, uh, from a hip. Culture perspective. There's not a more defining dance for the culture.

Like when you think of hip hop dances. Yeah, there are a ton of them. You could talk about the running man. You could talk about the Peewee Herman. You could talk about the cabbage patch,

but the WP was squarely hip hop and there are a couple of things and I'm curious to know what you [00:03:00] think about this, sir Daniel, but I do think that the WP represents a couple of things.

One. To your point, it is a dance that allows, uh, that also gave hip hop a tempo. For a

period of time, right? So the songs that were created in particular around the time that, that The Wop was popular, kind of had a specific flow so that people

could wop to it. So that's one thing.

But I think the other thing that makes The Wop unique is like black culture.

We love. Nuance, right? So we have a lot of ways to do a thing or say a thing, right? So that we're conveying a message to someone. And The Wop, what I love about it is it can be done. To represent many different things. [00:04:00] So there's like aggressive whopping, there is sensual whopping, there is party time whopping, there is funny games whopping, you know, and all of these are the same dance. Using hands in a certain way, using your head in a certain way. It's like black culture on steroids. It's like, oh, they are battling right now.

Sir Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Jay Ray: they have at a party time. Oh, they really into each other, but they're whopping. It's just all D It's all a different variation.

Sir Daniel: It's, it's all things all at the same time. And that's the beauty of it. And I, I want to throw in there also that The Wop gave men permission to dance. Like, see, there's a, I don't think even then, I don't think, um, those early days of hip hop. Was [00:05:00] aggre was male aggressive? It did have some, you know, machismo to it.

But I think dance is like the wap. You know your hood, dude, you know your, you're a block hugger. He could, he could do the WP but he can have a, a serious. Like, um, snarl on his face and still be cool, still be moving to the beat and, um, and not, and still have a young lady feel like, oh, she can, she can engage him in this dance because he's doing it, but even though he's doing it from a B-boy stance and he's, you know, he's looking assertive, he's looking aggressive while doing it, but it still gave him permission or an outlet to move his body and still.

Retain some, um, masculinity, some, you know, machismo at the same time. So that's why the is everything everywhere, all at one time. The best. That's why it's the.

Jay Ray: That's why it's the best.

Regional Variations of The Wop

Jay Ray: I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm also curious, right, so [00:06:00] hip hop. Ooh. In particular, our era. Um, and y'all, gen Z folks and Gen Alpha let us know what's up in y'all era. 'cause sir, I mean, I'm, we not y'all age, so we don't know kind of what that that's like, but for us was, it was, it was always a flurry of dances, right?

So the first, I guess, big hip hop dance that I remember was the Peewee Herman.

Um, so the Peewee Herman was kind of like the first big dance that I remember and Right,

and the WP kind of came in. Um, I, I would love to know too, there's no documented history on who was the first person to like do a WP.

Clearly it's, it's clearly tied to New York historically, but like how it came to be is interesting. I'm wondering if Eric B and Rakim, [00:07:00] um, had something that, that sound of the way Rakim was producing had something that kind of gave it this like thing. I don't know. But what we do know is that it's the 40th anniversary of w it 1986 w it came out now.

I got who it later. So you were in New York at the time, so

I didn't hear who it until maybe a decade later after it came out. Um, what was that like? Because that came out and then was like, it was like a, a fork, a a, a dividing line. Like the whop is a thing.

Historical Context and Evolution

Sir Daniel: Yeah, so WPP it by one BFAs, um, an Mc outta Harlem, um, which kind of. So it kind of lends to this whole, did it come from Harlem? Because I do, even though BFAs was the first, and to [00:08:00] what, to my knowledge, the only rapper to, to. To name a song after the dance, that particular dance called the wpp it. So, but when you look back at, um, say a Dougie Fresh, Dougie fresh is all the way to heaven.

The the, the girls were dancing, they were doing the wap real heavy in that video. And, um, that, that tempo that you were speaking of, that, that particular, you know, 98. 99 BPMs with the, I don't know how to explain this, this sound effect, but it was very present in a lot of Dougie Fresh and Herbie Love pro love bug productions.

But it was that,

Jay Ray: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That is, uh, that is a, a, uh, a, that thing. A, a, not a shaker, but

you would, the metal, it was the, the, the mechanical version of

that. I can't remember. I think it was called a shaker actually. So, yeah. Yeah.

Sir Daniel: [00:09:00] So that, I think when you heard that particular sound effect, that instrument, I think that led to, it kind of automatically made you feel like, oh, I got, I could do a, a stern WA to this because the metal shaker is in fact being played in that record. Um, but yeah, I think BFAs goes down in history is probably the only person to lend.

To give to, to, to give a record to that, to that dance, or to produce a record around that dance. And there's, and when you think about it, there's not a whole lot of records dedicated to those dances. You have the wpp it, um, wpp, it, you have, uh, the Peewee Herman. You do have

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: s uh, Smurf's Revenge, which is dedicated to the Smurf.

But, um. Any of the other dancers, like the Running Man was so popular, the Roger Rabbit. Um. Some people call it the crab, and that's [00:10:00] another thing we could talk about how these dances traveled around before, because they traveled before we had the internet and before we had YouTube. So those dances got around, but we don't know how.

Well we kind, I can think, I can theorize how they got around to different regions of the country, but then the dancers will always take on different names in different regions of the country and there would be some variations on it as, um. Because you taught me that there was a DC version of the

Jay Ray: It is, there's a very, um, unique version of the wp

Sir Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Jay Ray: um, ca It's the DC wp essentially, it,

Sir Daniel: demonstrate.

Jay Ray: I, okay, so for the people who are watching, for the people who are listening, y'all need to come to the video version and wa and watch. But I remember the DC WP. As being very, um, upper body heavy, whereas [00:11:00] the New York wp, 'cause there was a distinction,

right?

The New York WP was Head shoulders, but it was very head focused and you could add hands in there.

The DC wop was upper body hand focus where it was like a wave and you went to the side. Back and forth, double time, da da. So it's very similar. It's just that my head is not, come to the video. My head isn't moving right.

But my, my upper body is moving and I'm, I'm like not into it. You know, so that's what I remember the DC WP as being DC people. Let me know if I'm off, but when I was a kid, we called that the DC

Sir Daniel: DC one. And it's so funny because when you demonstrated that for me the first time, I immediately thought, well, that looks like the, a [00:12:00] variation on the cabbage

Jay Ray: It does.

Sir Daniel: that there's a vari that's a variation on

Jay Ray: It is, right? 'cause the car, right? Yep.

Sir Daniel: isolate your arms, but your, your torso is moving from left to right and like you said, you could double time and bring it back and bring it around and, oh,

Jay Ray: little bit of the snake in there too, like,

Sir Daniel: Little bit of snake. Yes. So sidebar, um, preparing for the show, uh, Jay Ray. I wanted to show Jay Ray this video that I know he had never seen.

Jay Ray: oh my God.

Sir Daniel: out. Shout out to r and b, um, legends from, where were they from? Sand Bernardino.

Jay Ray: Yeah. Somewhere in Cali.

Sir Daniel: Sam, somewhere in Cali's, um, a a all female r and b group called New Choice and their debut single called Cold Stupid, which the name alone lets you know that it's, it's, it's so 1986.

Jay Ray: Yes.

Sir Daniel: So 1986, but when I tell you I [00:13:00] get my life every time I watch that video, because they did every single hip hop dance at a what appeared to be a frat party, and which featured actual fraternity and sorority members in the music

Jay Ray: all, all of them represented. The whole MPHC was part of this video.

Sir Daniel: And when I new choice was doing the cabbage patch, they were doing the wat they were doing the snake. Everything you can imagine was in that v. Young people listening. If you want to see, and maybe we should put this in our,

Jay Ray: We were in the description.

Sir Daniel: Yeah, in the description, if you want to see, get a picture of what those old school dances really looked like, because I know we get nostalgic and you hear people say, do a old school dance, and most of the time they do stuff that they've seen Bobby Brown doing, which is phenomenal.

However.

Jay Ray: Yes.

Sir Daniel: Y'all got to see what it, y'all have to see what it really, how it really went down in [00:14:00] 86 before it got really polished and commercialized, because then choreographers got ahold of it. Like your Paula Abduls, you mentioned the snake.

Jay Ray: The snake. Yep.

Sir Daniel: Paula Abdul brought the snake and um. The variations of hip hop dances to Janet Jackson and to whoever she was choreographing for.

And those were mainstream artists. And so, um, there was one other point I wanted to make. Oh yes. Another video y'all should look at is the original version of Mc Hammers. Let's get it started. It's not the glossy

Jay Ray: Glo, not the

glossy version where he's on stage.

Sir Daniel: No, this one they did at a underground club. You could tell somebody's handheld VHS recorder recorded it.

They were wearing all troop, these troop sweatsuits, and it was the hardest dancing you could ever imagine. Mc hammer. 3, 5, 7 backing him up. I think you [00:15:00] need to watch that just to get a taste of the essence of what it was like. And that's the, that's Oakland, that's way on the West Coast. So again, when we were talking about how these dances travel, uh, from state to state and region to region, I'm thinking it was due to the tours.

The tours and, and the, the, the hip hop dance. The hip hop artists doing their, um, the routines on stage. And like you said, each state would do their own variation and put their own flavor on it.

Jay Ray: Yeah. Yes, I agree. I also, Ooh, this is gonna be a provocative point too, but I think this could be part of it as well. Black people in particular

Sir Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Jay Ray: have. Stuff in our DNA that we just be doing. Right? And it is crazy when you listen [00:16:00] to certain songs, how it just makes you want to kind of do a particular movement.

You don't know that that movement. Is something that somebody is doing somewhere else. But, um, Eric B for President is the song that keeps running through my head. 'cause I heavily associate that song with The Wop just because of the way it flows. All of that and. I can imagine that someone in New York, in Philly, in dc, in Los Angeles, in Detroit, would hear that song and be like, boom, boom, boom, boom.

You know what I'm saying? Like, they would just start doing something

automatically because the the rhythm. And the, the, the, the way that song kind of sits in your body makes you do a certain movement. So I do think it's the tours. I do think it's that. I also think it might be some DNA in black [00:17:00] folks and too.

The Role of Music Videos

Jay Ray: The other thing is music videos were happening at the time lower budget. 'cause I went and I found the WPP IT video only for this. I had only heard the song. I had never even sought out to do the video. So I'm like, oh well lemme see if there was a video, there is something on YouTube where somebody took a camera to their tv.

Sir Daniel: Yes, that was the only recorded it off of a v hs.

Jay Ray: Exactly. So I finally saw the whopping video. Oh my God. Can we talk about the fun? Like, and I was too young to experience it in that way, right? Like if I was, 'cause in 86, I'm nine. You know what I'm saying? I am doing these dances at, at kitty parties. You know what I'm saying? It's fun, but it's, it's kid fun.

I would've loved to be at the teen clubs, so by the time I start going to the teen club, the WIP is already done, so this is [00:18:00] 91. I'm at the teen clubs. We're running manning

and cabbage patching and doing all of this other stuff that I wasn't doing The Wop for real. So it looked. So fun just looking at the fashions,

the girls and the hair, the asymmetrical and the dudes with their troop on and their hats, and I'm like, ah, what a time.

Sir Daniel: So I think the takeaway then is.

The Genetic Code of Dance

Sir Daniel: Like everything else, The Wop and all the dances that became formulated off of Golden Era hip hop music was something natural because it was genetically coded within us, and there was something about the music that unlocked. That within us, within that generation to create those dances.

Because I said the same could be said about all the [00:19:00] dances that our, our parents, you know, did, where they were, um, doing the, not the jitter bug, but the, the mashed potato and

Jay Ray: and the, mashed potatoes. Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: and all of those dances, and they were, they were having the time of their lives too. So I think, so then there's something to say that the music unlocks a code within us.

That we all have, and it just changes from generation to generation.

Jay Ray: man. And, and, and, Ooh, I love that you talked about this, that code, because I do think. That's the part about where the music is today. That's the scary

part, right? Because if the musicians don't tap into that code, producers be knowing, right? Be like. Mm, if I drop this, if I drop this high hat just like this, they're not going to be able to resist it.

Or if this base does just this [00:20:00] thing at this time, it is going to do something right. If we lose those recipes, I, I think, you know, that's the scary part. We

lose that, that access to the code that brings us the joy. To the thing, right? So I've been telling my brother this forever. I've been fee, I've never said this to you.

I've, over the last years, last three or four years, I've been fee for a party that is a time traveling kind of party.

Sir Daniel: Mm.

Jay Ray: Uh, because shuffled up so heatwave, uh, uh, by Martha and the Vandellas shuffled up one day and I was like, this thing goes so hard. Right. Or Edwin Stars, you know, 25 miles, right? And I'm like, this song goes so hard.

I want to dance to it with other people and have that experience. [00:21:00] But I also want to hear. Songs from the Golden Era, you know what I'm saying? I also want to hear House. I also want to hear all these things, these code unlocking songs. I want to hear them and I want to dance to them.

Sir Daniel: I will say this, um, you can find PLA parties like that. I think what you will have to do is it'll typically be like a vinyl experience party, because most vinyl parties are open format and you definitely go on. Different journeys, uh, when it comes to vinyl selectors, and that's why it's so important that spaces are made for vinyl selectors are, and parties are curated for those experiences because J you're not the only one.

I, I'm willing to bet d Sedonas that somebody's watching or listening to this would be right up there in that party with you. And so

Jay Ray: Doing the twist and The Wop and

Sir Daniel: Yeah. You know [00:22:00] to when James, we hear James Brown going,

Jay Ray: baby a.

Sir Daniel: let that code be in.

Jay Ray: Mmm, all day y'all.

Conclusion and Call to Action

Jay Ray: Thank you so much for tuning in As we talk about The Wop, we're having such a good time for Black History Month just talking about dances and what they mean, uh, for the culture. But, uh, subscribe to the show. If you could see our faces and hear our voices, we would love it. If you subscribe, share the show with your friends, family, and colleagues.

It is absolutely free, but it helps us to be able to grow. This thing that we are doing here at Queue Points, these conversations. So if you dug this, share it right, subscribe, make subscribe to the show in that way for free, but also become a member. So becoming a member helps us to keep the lights on and Queue Points, land, and keeps us being able to do this show.

And you can subscribe by visiting our website at Queue Points dot [00:23:00] com. Also on our website, you could check out our entire archive of shows. Uh, check out our substack. We got a lot of uh, dope stuff over there on Substack. And shop our store@store.queuepoints.com. We appreciate y'all. We love y'all.

Sir Daniel: We absolutely do. And what do I say? After every show in this life, you have a choice. You can either pick up the needle or. You could let the record play. I am DJ Sir Daniel,

Jay Ray: And my name is Jay Ray, y'all.

Sir Daniel: and this has been Q Point's podcast, dropping the needle on black music history. We will see you on the next go round.

Jay Ray: Peace y'all.

Outro Theme

[00:24:00]