Protest Music History: Marvin Gaye to Kendrick Lamar

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Peace.

Greetings, and welcome to another episode of Queue Points podcast.

I'm DJ Sir Daniel.

And my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my governments

as Johnnie Ray Kornegay III.

What's happening, folks?

So I, I was looking at, um, Amanda Seales- Mm-hmm … made a

post, and she was like, "Hey, y'all. You know, this ain't our time to

be on the front line. But so even though we not on the front lines, can

we make some revolutionary music?"

Can we make bops?

And I was like, "Huh." Can we Can we Can we, are we

able to make revolutionary music?

Yeah.

And that was the question.

I was like, you know what?

And then when things happened, I was like, "Jay Ray, we gotta talk about-

Yeah … um, what has happened." In our lifetime we've witnessed, what, one,

two, three, maybe about three wars now.

We had the- Yeah … the, the, the, the, the Gulf Co- The Gulf War- The Gulf War

the Afghanistan War.

Mm-hmm.

And now this.

And now this, uh, occupation or- Yeah … or they're calling

it a conflict i- with Iran.

Mm-hmm.

Um, but yeah, so we witnessed some stuff.

We witnessed the fallout.

You know, of course 9/11 was a- Mm-hmm … huge deal that pushed us into t- into war.

So we're used to it.

The only difference between us and the boomers, our g- our parents'

generation, is they were, they were w- the answer my friend is blowing in- Yes

they were outside on their guitars and writing songs about freedom.

Yes.

Can we, can we do that?

That's my question this evening.

Are, can we come up with some revolutionary jams?

so

I think the answer, um, to the question is yes, we can.

And even when we look back, right?

So if we go back in time and think of the anthems of, of history.

So when we look at Vietnam, we have, you know, of course Marvin Gaye's

What's Going On?, we have- Mm-hmm

Curtis Mayfield, People Get Ready.

Um, later on we get, you know, an, uh, a Wake Up Everybody, uh, Harold Melvin

& The Blue Notes, all of that stuff.

Mm-hmm.

Right?

Um, and these songs were created, one, as a response, but also out of necessity.

But I do think there is something that made… There's two things that

I think made those things possible.

One, um, the world was different.

People were reading w- the, the, uh, the context for some of the things

that were happening was, um, uh, uh, there was some deeper knowledge.

And even for those folks that didn't have deeper knowledge, right, they

were able to translate the feeling of the people into the songs.

They just had the knowledge to be able to do it.

The other thing, though, and I think this is the biggest thing

It was commercially okay to do.

Like, these songs these songs were also commercially acceptable to create.

So we had come out of the- Yeah … Civil Rights movement and had those songs.

We had, you know, uh, uh, during the, the, the, the, the peace and

love movement of, you know, we had those protest songs, right?

So we had in the '60, the '50s and the '60s, it was just kind of

the music industry was… Protest songs were a part of the engine

that created hits in those eras.

And so you have artists that are like, "Ah, okay, I have something

to say." The record label is like, "Boom, I can make that a hit.

Let's go." Right.

I don't know that record…

So I think the thing that gets in the way now is if you are a major label artist-

Mm-hmm

… Jay Ray: your record label ain't trying to drop a protest song.

You gotta be an indie artist- No … to, in order to drop a protest song, for real.

I think that's actually the bigger thing.

I think commercially, when we're talking about, uh, artists that are, that

are kind of in that commercial, that super, you know, big label space- Yes

there's no room to do it.

No, there's no room, there's no permission.

Actually, and quite frankly, I don't think there's any motivation-

Mm … for not just the label, but for even the artist to do it.

I just beli- I believe that, um, over the past six years, after the civil unrest

we had here in the, during the protests over, um, Mike Bla- Uh, George Floyd

George Floyd.

Mike, mm-hmm.

Uh, Sandra, um- Sandra Bland, yep … Sandra Bland.

That whole everything.

Even starting off with Trayvon.

Mm-hmm.

In that time span, I believe that there was a moment of

There was a moment where people got galvanized and, and, and electrified,

and there was a feeling that this was it, you know, pe- that things were

shifting, people are a- are waking up.

And then, you know, things started getting performative.

Um, corporations got involved.

People, people started getting paid for their,

um, for their performances, for th- And when I say performances, I

mean their performative protesting.

Mm-hmm.

And so it, it, protesting got co-opt, co-opted-

Yes.

Oh,

corporate- … by the industry

… Jay Ray: corporate dow.

You know what I'm saying?

So I feel like, so after that, I think people were like, "Okay, I'm tired

of… This is, there's a burnout here."

There's a awokeness burnout.

There's, you know, how especially like everybody's on board to protest

and is, is standing in solidarity and blacking out their Instagrams.

All that kind of stuff was happening.

And I just think that after a while people got burnt out with that and just

started minding their own business, especially after the pandemic.

Mm-hmm.

Um, we became a little disjointed with each other.

And then I think, you know, there's a generation that just feels like, "Hey,

I am all about the pleasure principle.

I'm all… I'm not trying to feel all of that.

I wanna, I wanna feel joy.

I wanna ex- I wanna be excited.

I don't wanna think

I just want to…

So all of this is happening right now.

You, you older people are putting us through this, and I really

don't want anything to do with it.

You know, voting sucks, you know.

Mm-hmm.

Everything is, we're deeply unserious.

You know, most of the things are a joke.

But that's a, but we know that's a, um, that's a, a, a mechanism that we have in

place to make, you know, to, to help deal with the things that we're dealing with.

So that's why I believe, back to my, my first point was I don't think

there's any motivation for a lot of artists to do anything that is

revo- what we think is revolutionary.

I do think that some of them, in their own way, feel like speaking up in

their voice, um, being, um, unfiltered, being, uh, just doing things with no

apology, being unapologetic, whether it's being grimy and being ratchet, is

a form of, of protest or revolution in their thinking maybe, in their minds.

Yeah.

And so, and being, and you know, this being, I'm being authentic.

I'm ratchet.

Mm-hmm.

I'm gonna be ratchet.

That's authentic.

That's my form of protest.

Meh, okay.

And that's, I mean, do you, boo.

Yeah.

Um, that's fair.

That's fair.

I, I, I do- Sure.

I do get that this current… You know what I think it is, honestly too?

I think the reason why folks also don't wanna do it, there truly is

something to lose for these folks now.

You know what I mean?

And when I say that, here's what I mean.

If we think about, um, Black music specifically in our, uh, uh, in our, uh,

protest music r- uh, revolution period.

So of course you get it in the '50s, the '60s, and the '70s.

Mm-hmm.

And it continues in the '80s and into the early '90s, right?

During that time, Black music was still heavily, uh, uh, uh, made

by, supported by Black people.

White people were a large part of the audience, and that's why people

got a chance to cross over, right?

'Cause white people is definitely buying the music.

But Black folks was talking to Black folks in the music, right?

For sure.

So if you're talking to your people, you gonna say what your people need

to hear you say, because you t- we talk- we was talking to each other.

Okay.

Now, because as we- We're a mixed

company?

We're a mixed company now.

And now for real, for real, that filter that used to be there where the, the, the,

the big white man who sat up in the office would give the money to the Black dude and

be like, "Go forth and make this," right?

"Do what you gonna do." But the money is filtered down.

But now these artists in this new space, because of just the nature of

the industry, the artist is literally, the boss is that dude, right?

So they're, like, directly tied to that person.

Mm-hmm.

And if that person is like, "Nah, son, that's not what we doing," 'cause, you

know, they, they got BlackSense now.

"That's not what we're doing," it's, there's just no ability to do it.

So yeah, it is- All of that.

And I do get our desire, and this is, I'ma blame, I'ma just, I'ma

say this here is me as a Gen X-er.

Mm-hmm.

I was part of this problem too, of like getting

tired of needing to fight, right?

And- Yeah.

Yeah

… Jay Ray: so if, it's like, okay, well listen, we have fought, fought,

fought, fought, fought, fought, fought.

Let's just enjoy ourselves.

The problem is that thing has now transformed into, uh, misinformation,

disinformation, disinterest, um, be- and, and, and self, and,

and, and protection of self.

Yeah.

Very individualistic, which is what this country likes.

Because we there, we really have to pull ourselves out now and put

ourselves back into community, and we need to be talking to us again.

Mm. Yeah.

It's like, uh, the, it, it's a numbing cream effect.

Mm.

You know, we just, like you said, we've, we've been

satiated by the money that has been made that was floating around.

We've got everything now to distract us.

We've got these phones.

We can distract ourselves with everything on our phone from music

to, to corn, as the kids like

to say.

And it's just, you know… Yeah, I, I just believe that there is a disinterest in-

In reaching out across the table.

There's a disinterest because now, now we're, we're splintered off into

these different groups 'cause, you know, you know, that, that stuff

that's happen- that's happening to them immigrants and, you know, I

ain't… That ain't our business.

I'm b- I'm Black.

I'm a foundational Black American, so that ain't my f- that ain't my business.

Now we're, we're splintered off into these different sub- subsets of Black people.

And now

Black, now, now Black folks th- that are, uh, descendants of

slaves- Mm-hmm … now you have the foundational Black Americans, and

then you have all the… And it's like we keep dividing ourselves more.

Yep.

That's what the system wants us to do.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

And so when that's happening, it w- then we can't agree on music, and

then everybody has their own, you know, wants to listen to what they

wanna listen to, and it's, you know.

Yeah.

Now, I see in the, um, in the chat that we have, um, let's see, uh, Mark and Leah-

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm … have made some suggestions about who could sing.

I saw Ledisi.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

I saw Fantasia.

Mm-hmm.

And there was somebody else.

Ledisi- I said John Legend … Fantasia, and John Legend could create

something anthemic and beautiful.

I agree.

You know, they've recent… Well, John Legend was most recently

on that, um, the Glory song.

That sounded very, you know- Mm-hmm

protesty.

And oh, here's what I was thinking.

This is what I wanted to say.

You mentioned, um- radio and the record labels and whatnot.

Mm-hmm.

I could d- distinctly, even with radio, there was an opportunity on ra-

different radio stations for an Arrested Development to be played- Yes … for,

um, Public Enemy's records to be played.

Mm-hmm.

And that's when, um, Black radio specifically still had a, had local-

Yeah … hooks, had local, um, gravitas in, in this, in their prospective cities.

If you look and see, most of these radio stations are owned by huge corporations.

Yep, and their-

There is-

… Jay Ray: format is standard

… Sir Daniel: standard.

There is nothing, and when I tell you there is nothing, um, grassroots

about it, there's nothing…

They try to stay a little bit local, you know, have some local flavor,

but anything that's too radical or revolutionary does not have any s-

any room on these radio stations in the programming, and it's called

programming for a purpose, for a reason.

Mm-hmm.

And programming for any of that, anything that will make you wake up or wanna

question what is being fed to you.

So know that as well.

Hmm.

Um, so true.

So I, I, I do want to lift up, I'm glad that people put

those artists in, in the chat.

Mm-hmm.

Um, I do wanna lift up the fact that, uh, Roby has been killing it, so

we had two protest songs in a row.

Yeah.

He just dropped Pride, uh, for Black History Month, um, and then Change

in twen- at the end of 2024, which was co-written with him and Donny.

Um- Mm-hmm … so, and there's, so there's an appetite, right?

And, and folks, so I think this is the beautiful thing.

We definitely showing love to our indie artists who do-

For

sure … they have the ability, they ha- you know, they're

not, they're able to do this because of where they sit in the industry.

Mm-hmm.

And so I think that's another thing to continue to champion as well is for our

indie artists, you have some more freedom where you can play a little bit more,

and because of the way the industry is now and the way things are set up, you

could drop a protest song as a "white label" quote, unquote on a streaming

platform and just promote it on the back end and, and do whatever it is that you

need to do, but there's opportunity.

I wanted to also mention that- While there, from a commercial standpoint,

while there aren't as many- Mm-hmm … um, revolutionary songs, there have been some.

We talk about Kendrick Lamar's Alright.

Yes.

Um, To Pimp a Butterfly realistically is, like, a protest album, right?

Uh, and so that record, um-

Yeah, um, what's his name?

Um, Danny Glover.

Danny Glover.

Donald Glo-

Donald Glover … Don-

Donald Glover.

Yes, Donald Glover- Danny Glover … with This Is America.

This Is America.

Danny Glover.

Danny Glover, Lethal Weapon.

Um-

Yes,

he- Mister was protesting, Mister was protesting too.

Right.

Um- That was him running and dancing in that, in that garage.

But anyway- I don't wanna… Sorry for distracting you, Jerry.

Go ahead.

Go ahead.

Well, Janelle Monáe, we talked about this, uh, in getting ready for this show.

Mm-hmm.

Um, that Hell You Talkin' Bout?

where, you know- Hell You Talkin' Bout?

Yeah, there was, like, a 2013 version, and then Wondaland as a crew did, like,

a 2015 version, right, as an update.

Um, uh, Lil Baby has a joint that Lil Baby did.

Who?

I don't know any Lil Baby song.

But I do know this song, and he did the Bigger Picture in, uh, back in 2020.

Mm-hmm.

You know, H.E.R., where is H.E.R.?

I know she's acting.

She was just in, she was in The Color Purple and doing stuff like that.

H.E.R. had a joint- Right

the I Can't Breathe thing.

Um-

Yeah.

Yeah, so there- Yeah, that, all of that was really- … have been songs.

Yeah.

All of that was really, it was nice.

It, it was part of the moment.

It was very-

Yeah, but here's the thing, so I'm- Uh-huh … wondering this, so

this is a question, Sir Daniel, to you.

Okay.

Because I also think this is the problem, and when we started,

um, and I think Leah said this in the chat, you know, people could read…

Uh, no, it might have been Mark.

People could read and understand context.

Um-

Mm-hmm

… Jay Ray: and we're now in a hashtag society.

So the reason- Mm-hmm … why these songs were able to be made, right, was

because there was, like, a hashtag.

It was like- Yes … you know what I'm saying?

I can't breathe.

Okay, I can do a song, you know what I mean?

Like, related to that.

And because that's the way people's ti- uh, uh, this thing.

That's the way their attention span works.

Mm-hmm.

You know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

So my question to you, Sir Daniel, is- Is that okay too?

Like, uh, do we need a both/and where we get this kinda like piecemeal

where you getting a little bit at le- you know what I'm saying?

At least it's not nothing.

Or do- Yeah … or do we need something more?

What are your thoughts?

Um, I think because I don't think you can recreate

it now because it's been done.

Mm-hmm.

And I don't think that they'll f- I don't think

they're gonna fall for it again.

Okay.

Uh, I think people are very much… You know, there's a, there's a level of

cynicism that has grown amongst us where even, even younger people are super, super

cynical, and there is a optimism that does not exist, or at least I haven't seen it.

Mm-hmm.

Whereas there were, you know, in the before times, you

know, there was a lot of optimism.

There was, you know, reason to live.

Now it just feels like we just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Mm-hmm.

And so I don't know, I think we might see a, you know, party like

it's 1999 attitude more so now.

Hmm.

And you know who I'm really disappointed in?

Who?

I'm disappointed in a lot of gospel artists.

Oof.

I'm disappointed, gospel, not for nothing, gospel really could

be- It could be … like could be standing on people's necks right now.

Yes.

But y'all wanted to go for that, what is that?

That CCM money- Yeah, yeah, yeah … and that CCM crowd, and so we know you not

gonna ruffle any feathers because your, your- I know where the money's coming from

your

mammy,

y- your mammy and your pappy and your sky daddy are over the

ones that are pa- you know, giving you those large amounts of money.

And so you can't protesting because protestings, that's not of God.

That's out of order.

And- Mm. You know, and, uh, and praising your Blackness is, is wrong.

Yeah, okay, so that, so that's, I think that's why we're not seeing

or getting anything from the gospel community either, and that's a shame.

Because if you look at the pa- Mahalia Jackson- Sing down … was

singing her face off for the movement.

You know?

Yeah.

And she was gospel, but she knew that this wa- this ain't right.

She was singing for her people and singing- Mm-hmm … for

freedom, for real, for real.

And so I think it's, it's really disappointing across

the boards, across the genres.

Um, there are literally people are going to have to, I don't know, just

stage their own mini protests, I guess, or just do really, really small

things without expecting a whole lot of fanfare or a, a whole lot of thanks.

Just really- Yeah … doing things from, that are innately Wanting

change, that's gonna have- Yeah

that's gonna have to suffice for now.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Um, and I mean, honestly, I think that's all we can expect, uh, from folks, um,

at this point, uh, uh, because, because of the way things have been set up.

I do hope that we are able to roll back, um, some of this, uh, some of this apathy.

Mm-hmm.

I do hope that people begin to reconnect with culture, reconnect

with community, um, in a way, um…

Yeah, 'cause, uh, uh, along these same lines, right, Mark is, uh, in the, in

the, uh, chat here mentioning, you know, Black folks denouncing D9 orgs, talking

about they demonic and all of this.

And I'm like- … oh my God, there's like all of this stuff that's just

happening, and I do wonder if we're at the inflection point where it either

is going to go in a direction that is going to, to move us forward and, or,

or we stay where we are and get worse.

The reason why I got excited is because I don't wanna forget, and I think

this is important too, I don't know why we haven't learned this by now in

2026, the only way forward is together

The only way forward is together.

Now get rid of them fools.

Now it's okay that the fools- … the fools don't have to come, right?

Mm-hmm.

And there's always some fools.

But y'all be putting people in the fool category that don't

need to be in the fool category.

They all right.

They need to come, okay?

So we have to do this thing, and we have to do it together.

There's no other way.

And when I say together, I mean together together.

Baby, scooping up everybody.

Come on.

We gotta… It's the only way that this thing is gonna change.

It's the

only way.

I agree with you, Jay Ray.

I, you know, I want some of that sunshine.

I want s- that, that positive aura that you're giving off right now,

and I hope it is in- infectious to everybody, and that we do feel

like we can feel like that again.

And I'm start- So while we were having this discussion, I could not help but

think of some of the attempts that have been made over the more recent years.

And I'd mentioned, um, 9/11.

Yes.

Do you all remember this all-star tribute remake of What's Going

On that featured such s- the song stylings of Britney Spears, Jessica

Simpson, Justin Timberlake, uh, O-Town, I'm sure, 98 Degrees.

Any, any and everybody you could think of hopped on this remake of What's Going On.

And remember in the video everybody was wearing blindfolds?

Yes.

Was it the f- was it the f- the flag, or it just had

something across it that, I don't know if it said freedom or something.

But, uh, yeah, those moments, although they were wild and they fall, um,

I don't know where they fall in the annals of, of music history.

But it does, it did give me a chuckle in some ways.

It gave me a chuckle.

It distracted us for a moment.

Um, you know, we pulled out… What color were the f- the ribbons we were wearing?

Were they yellow?

I think we were wearing

yellow ribbons.

I don't remember.

What was the 9/11 ribbons?

Oh, I can look this up on the internets.

Um-

' Sir Daniel: Cause we lo- Listen, guys.

Is, is it time to bring out ribbons again?

We need to bring out ribbons.

'Cause we love the ribbons.

I'm tired.

The, like- I'm telling all the artists.

Like, when you go into these award shows, HIV is real.

I need y'all to be wearing your red ribbons.

Y'all out here playing.

Um- Wear a ri-

Tie a yellow ribbon around-

Oh, did 9/11 have…

No.

Okay.

So 9/11.

Oh, I remember this.

Um, I'ma, I'ma, I'ma share my screen really quick.

Hold on.

Uh, this is what… I typed in 9/11 in the, in the machine,

in the Google machine.

Mm-hmm.

And it said, and h- here's what it's showing me Can we see it yet?

Hold on.

We can't see it yet.

It's turning on.

There it is.

So I remember this one, the We Will Not Forget- Ah, yes

um, situation.

We will not forget.

That's it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah.

That's it.

And King of the Dance Floor is in the chat, and he said that was spearheaded

by Lee Blake, the co-founder of Red Hot.

Ah, y- listen, we love Red Hot.

Thank you so much, uh, Steven.

That's Steven Hicks, y'all.

Mm-hmm.

If y'all don't know who Steven is.

The Steven Hicks.

The Steven Hicks, um, who wrote a great piece about the history of Red Hot.

So definitely just Google Steven and Google Red Hot and you'll

be able to read Steven's work.

But we need the, the idea of that… So because that was something that

would at least, for me, signal as a kid, because, you know, as

a kid, you, the symbols matter.

Okay.

Yeah.

So I remember seeing the red ribbon and being like, "Everybody has that on. What

does that mean? Oh, that's- Mm … HIV awareness," AIDS awareness at the time.

"Oh, if my favorite artist has that pin on and they're raising awareness, I should

be aware of this too." Like, there's so much influence that artists have.

And I'm not saying that you got to write op-eds in The New York Times.

But where do you stand?

I think everybody is afraid of being perceived as

preachy, woke, um, judgmental.

Um, people are afraid of being canceled.

Mm-hmm.

And we all know that cancellation is… That's fake.

That's made up anymore.

That's fake.

That doesn't work anymore.

People get canceled and, you know, go on a redemption tour the next morning.

Look- Look at, look at Tyra Banks.

Tyra Banks is see- is now being seen everywhere now.

She's being dragged to hell, but people, she's still making appearances and

is going to capitalize off of that.

So I think that if you are so inclined and if you do feel some, a calling

on your spirit to say something, you should say something if you,

especially if you have the platform for

it.

Absolutely.

Y'all, thank y'all so much for, um, hanging out as we

wanted to talk about that.

Um- Yeah … but we definitely need this.

Artists, uh, when you listen to this, share this with your favorite indie

artists and let them know Queue Points wanna hear your protest, uh, songs.

We need your protest jams.

We will…

Hey, 'cause we can make this decision, Sir Daniel, because-

Uh-huh … we're an independent podcast.

We can put those videos right in a broadcast of Queue Points.

We want your protest songs, and we will put them in the broadcast.

Send them over.

Let your folks know.

Subscribe wherever you are.

Share the show with your friends, family, colleagues, because if you

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We appreciate y'all, and we love y'all.

We absolutely do, and like I say every week, in

this life, you have a choice.

You can either pick up the needle, or you can let the record play.

I'm DJ Sir Daniel.

My name is Jay Ray, y'all.

And this has been Queue Points podcast, dropping

the needle on Black music history.

We will see you on the next go-round.

Make beats, not war.

Yes.

Peace, y'all.