Dancing Through Black History With Dr. Marcus Borders: Line Dancing, Skating, and Community

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Dancing Through Black History With Dr. Marcus Borders: Line Dancing, Skating, and Community

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[00:00:00]

Intro Theme

Welcome to Queue Points

Sir Daniel: Greetings and welcome to another episode of Queue Points podcast. I am DJ Sir Daniel.

Jay Ray: And my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my government as Johnnie Ray Kornegay III. And Sir Daniel, we are about to put an exclamation point on the conversation we had about line dancing, and I cannot wait to have this discussion.

Sir Daniel: Listen, we all Black History month, we have been dancing up and down your timelines, talking about something that's very important to, uh, the Black community, the culture of being Black in America. And part of that is dancing. And more specifically, we've been talking about line dancing. Now we've had our discussions about the bus stop.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: [00:01:00] We, um, the Chacha slide, those, the songs that go along with them.

Line Dancing Goes Viral

Sir Daniel: And now we are talking about a dance craze that has, it's been around, but more recently it's been, it's taken off and it took a life of its own Over the past summer, summer 24 with the, um, with the boots on the ground movement

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Sir Daniel: specifically, um, Black Americans, um, really went.

Like balls to the wall with this movement of going out into open fields. And you know, there's, there were songs, country songs made up specifically for this line dancing. And now if you listen to any type of radio station, there are actually formats now created for, um, what are they calling it? Um, Southern S Soul.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Sir Daniel: And so it's really had an impact over the culture

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: When we decided to do this series on dancing, uh, there was [00:02:00] immediately, the first name that popped into my head is the name of our guest,

Jay Ray: Yes.

Sir Daniel: because I've known him for years now and he's been along for my journey as a dj, and I've noticed that he's been on a journey of his own,

Jay Ray: Mm.

Sir Daniel: um, as he.

His evolution.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Sir Daniel: Um, and we're gonna talk about that, about his evolution and probably the reason why I was paying so much attention to it and why I think he's an expert to tell us to talk to us about this line dancing movement that we have been, um, experiencing across the land. So I'm gonna let you do the honors Jay Ray and introduce our guests.

Jay Ray: Absolutely y'all.

Meet Dr Marcus Borders

Jay Ray: So Queue Points family, um, we are going to welcome Dr. Marcus Borders to the show. Dr. Marcus Borders is a learning innovation specialist with Ed Farm, where he supports educators and school leaders in designing blended learning, coaching and K 12 computer science experiences. His work centers on [00:03:00] expanding access to high quality technology, learning and ensuring digital equity for the communities he serves.

With a particular passion for elementary educators, educators, students, and adult learners. Borders holds an ed d and an Ed s, uh, in instructional technology from Kennesaw State University University, along with degrees in urban leadership from early childhood education from Georgia State University. A native Atlantan markets can often be found. Outside of work, rolling around one of the city's skating rinks or learning the latest Southern Soul and Trail Ride line Dances Queue Points. Family, it is our absolute pleasure to welcome Dr. Marcus Borders to the show. Marcus was having a man.

Sir Daniel: How you doing?

Marcus Borders: Going on. I'm doing well. How are you guys doing?

Sir Daniel: Fantastic. I am, I'm really happy that [00:04:00] you, first of all, that you decided to do this, um, because it's among the plethora of things that you're doing to, um, to stretch yourself. And, um, I just really enjoy seeing this journey that you've been on, as I stated earlier, um. Marcus has, has witnessed my journey as a dj and I've witnessed his growth as well, because we've known each other for some years now.

Um, Jay Ray, we've had this discussion before about line dancing in particular. Like we, we would talk about the wobble, for instance.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Sir Daniel: And as much as the song kind of, you know, got on my nerves during a certain at at its height, at the height of its popularity, I realized that I had to take myself out of the equation.

And remember that this might be the only opportunity that some people will venture out on a dance floor and engage with the rest of the [00:05:00] crowd.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Introvert on the Dance Floor

Sir Daniel: And I. Would it be, would, is it a stretch, Marcus, to say that you would be one of those people that in the midst of the, of the carrying zone of a party, the club or whatever, is it a stretch to say that you would've been the person that may have played the wall for the majority of the time that you were there until you heard a line dancing song?

Marcus Borders: That is absolutely correct, uh, from the bits of my introverted soul. Um. That's how it starts. I love to dance. I was not the, um, you know, back in the day that your parents would say, come out here baby and do that dance that you

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Marcus Borders: I was not that kid, but if you leave me to my own devices and you watch me, you might see me, you know, doing

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Marcus Borders: so line dance was a. a way for me to kind of hide within a crowd and enjoy myself. Um, so that's where it kind of taps into the introversion part of me. So yeah, you've witnessed it at your DJ sets over the [00:06:00] years of, you know, I might be just standing talking or, you know, at the bar somewhere, but you play a certain song and I just kind of make a beeline to the dance floor, and even if that song ends and it goes into something else, I might

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Marcus Borders: by right off the dance floor after that.

So, absolutely.

Jay Ray: Wow. You know, that's so brilliant. Now you had to get to that place. So you, you mentioned being an introvert. I too, and people are surprised by that. Am an introvert. I. Completely get lost on the dance floor though. We'll talk about this later. Uh, you probably saw that. I can't, I cannot line dance though.

I know the wobble and I know the electric slide. The rest of it, I get confused. I I don't know which way to go. Whatever. We'll talk about that later in a minute though.

Marcus Borders: Okay. Okay,

Cars and Early Dance Roots

Jay Ray: I'm really curious about, so you had two passions that if you look at your social media, like it comes up Line dancing. What was your journey [00:07:00] that, especially as an introvert?

Like how did you get to, to these passions?

Marcus Borders: so cars is really easy. Um, I'm an only child, and so I can name specifically my aunt. She was the one who got me into it, uh, when I was a baby. She had an 84 Corvette.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Marcus Borders: and I just, it

Jay Ray: Was that the one with the, with the, with the, with the, the handle that went down in the thing. It might have been a older one.

Marcus Borders: that's the earlier generation. Uh, she had the one with the flip, with the headlights that I didn't, I didn't, I.

Jay Ray: It's okay.

Marcus Borders: Well, hers was the one that, uh, the headlights rotated over and flipped up at the same

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Marcus Borders: Um, so that, and along with my dad buying me the hot wheels and the matchbox cars, that was a way for us to bond. And so I've loved cars, um, ever since. So you can

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Marcus Borders: a car show at least once a month or doing something involving cars. I'm gonna add something in there that kind of leads into the line dance piece. Um, but I'm gonna go back [00:08:00] beforehand.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Marcus Borders: and dancing, I, uh, can visualize. My first grade teacher, Ms. Doko, um, every Friday we'd have a fun Friday moment, and this was, I'm telling my age, this was back with Mc Hammer doing the Hammer

Jay Ray: Yeah, absolutely.

Marcus Borders: it wasn't us watching movies or, you know, uh, eating ice cream. That happens sometimes, but you know, she was like, I want y'all to get up and do the hammer. Do the hammer. She would, you know, do it stuff. And, you know, we had these little contests, so that was like my. First time in saying, well, I can do this dance, but do I feel like doing it comfortably in front of people? And then she taught us the electric slide. So this is like in 19 91, 92, and that's when I learned how to do the electric slide. Um, probably didn't do it again until high

Jay Ray: Hmm.

Marcus Borders: was my first time kind of going into like doing line dance with groups of people.

Skating Sparked the Shift

Marcus Borders: Skating is the thing that I want to interject,

Jay Ray: Okay.

Marcus Borders: a passion.

So I love cars, love line dancing, but I probably would not be line danced or in the spaces that I've entered over the last almost year, if it was, uh, was [00:09:00] not for skating and that's, I could talk to y'all all day about it, but just. It started in the, during the pandemic, um, I probably had no business being down at Cascade in the skating rink because, uh, business, most businesses were closed.

But summer of 2020 is when I got out of the house and decided to roller skate, and I have not stopped since.

Jay Ray: Wow.

Marcus Borders: have not missed a week of skating. Um. since that. So this can go from three days a week to six days a week.

Jay Ray: Wow.

Marcus Borders: to skate in Atlanta. And that's how I became comfortable going to a lot of the events, uh, for line dancing because a lot of my folks who skate, I will look on Instagram, you know, scroll through my phone, like they're at this club, they're at this by there having the time of their lives. Um, and I innately love line dancing. And so being in that space of being comfortable with others that I was already familiar with made it easy for me just to pull up to these spots.

Jay Ray: Wow.

Sir Daniel: And so I, I'm hearing, I'm hearing the freedom in your voice that you feel [00:10:00] in these spaces and the, the, the sense of liberation that a lot of us experience and when it comes to music.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: Like, I don't know if you've seen, there's a clip that I always pull that I like to post of Jay Ray for his birthday of him at, uh, one of the house in the, well not house, in the park, but one of the, um, Vivi house music celebrations at that will go down at the park and Jay Ray is in his world, he's.

He is getting it. He don't know. He's, he's doing the things right. And same thing goes with, like, if I'm in the middle of a set of something that I really, really enjoy playing and I'm, I'm singing along and singing to the top of my lungs and Marcus is skating and you know, now he's skating backwards. I've seen you, he's skating backwards and, and crisscrossing and all the things and the line dancing.

Talked to us also about.

Finding Freedom and Community

Sir Daniel: The freedom you [00:11:00] expressed, but talk to us about the community that you've, um, encountered and that you've become a part of as a result of engaging in these, um, in these classes and these, these groups that encourage the skating and the dancing.

Marcus Borders: Yeah, absolutely. So it's become important for. Me to, I wouldn't say that I isolate myself. I don't think that I do that. I'm always doing something out in the world, even, you know, in on an introverted level. So I don't shy away from being engaged in the world, but I do crave connectedness. And so pulling skating along, I mentioned kind of the grew and the pe, the groups and the people that I would see skating in those clubs or taking those line dance classes. think my level of discernment is important here to mention that. It allowed me to trust those people, to befriend them or to have some connectedness with them to say, Hey, it's okay if I just show up

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Marcus Borders: and, you know, [00:12:00] just pop up alongside even, you know, we are not the best of friends or the closest, we are at best really good acquaintances in these public spaces. Um, because I have to, skating and line dancing, I have to have a level of safety there, and I think that's where

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Marcus Borders: when I'm skating doing my thing, you literally disappear into the music line. Dancing can be like that as well, um, in the sense that if you're around familiar faces or at least if not even familiar faces, people who are doing the same thing. Psychologically, I have, I haven't looked into the science of what that

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Marcus Borders: but there's an air of freedom that comes about. Hitting the same move

Jay Ray: Yes,

Marcus Borders: or don't let you know a dance or something, and you're, you know, let's just say it's supposed to be step to the left. You know, a lot of people will step to the left and spin and then hit

Jay Ray: yes.

Marcus Borders: You're adding your own thing to it. So whatever the science and psychology behind that is, is what kind of speaks to that freedom. Is, is, is you knowing that you can kind of do something and mimic it and continue it. [00:13:00] Wanna potentially other people in to do it as well.

Classes Across Generations

Sir Daniel: Jay Ray, lemme ask, I I I have a quick follow up question. I'm sorry. So when you, when you began to involve yourself in these groups, one, um, is it an interra, interracial? Is it an intergenerational experience? And if it is an intergenerational experience, what shocked you the most about. The, uh, the young people that were getting involved or, you know, what, what, what did you find most surprising about the people that you would meet at these groups?

Marcus Borders: So speaking to the classes, uh, there's one particular class that I, uh, went to, um, shout out to DJ Trell Tsunami. Um, his classes were free. I'm very particular about high. Taught things, especially when it involves movement in my body. I was that way with skating and so went to one class, trusted how he, he taught the content is very much kind of hit quit and then we have a good time afterwards. Um, so I [00:14:00] appreciated that space. Um, the intergenerational piece, I'm trying to think of the actual classes themselves. I would say we would range from. Mid twenties, you know, low twenties, probably up into the sixties. And it's really every, it is like a, it's a family oriented environment.

Jay Ray: Hmm

Marcus Borders: Um, down to the dj.

You know, you come once or twice, not once or twice a week, but you know, multiple times, you know, he's walking around, dapping you up and giving you a high five, shaking your hand because he's familiar with you. You see the same faces, whether this is Ms. I'm just throwing out a name here. Ms. Jones, who might be 64,

Jay Ray: mm-hmm.

Marcus Borders: Hey baby, how you doing?

You know, are, you know, she might try to teach you something or you may try to teach her something, or you got the, you know, the younger ones who are teaching new dances. That's another beautiful thing is I've had experiences where DJ has set the stage for. A lot of the line dance groups and crews are the individuals to come up and say, Hey, we have this new line dance.

Let's teach the class. And he allows them to teach the class. So that's spanned [00:15:00] across ages as well. Um, so I think it is, I think about it being like a holiday, like the a Memorial Day celebration, 4th of July, and you have your aunties and your cousins all in the same space. And again, they span from being 18 years old to 58 years old, and we're all just there to have a good time.

Sir Daniel: I love that.

Jay Ray: You know, what's coming up for me, and I don't, I don't think there's a, a question in this, but what I'm feeling as you are reflecting is that. And this is really, science of it is really, I think, it feels like it's just kind of like Black culture, like the soul of who we are in so many ways.

'cause what I'm hearing from you is like, no, we going to put our own flavor on a thing and when we get together, like that idea of all of us being together doing the same thing. At the same [00:16:00] time lifts us up. I have this great story, it's a dance related story. Um, I was at, uh, uh, Tambo, which I don't know that they still do Tambo in, in Atlanta.

I know that Stan Zeff does some things, but, um, oh, shoot. Who was the dj? Um, I can't remember who the DJ was at the moment, but what I do know is this, um. We were all together. There's 200, 300 of us on the dance floor at the same time. And um, the song that was playing is a song called Kill. It's called, um, it's a take on thriller.

It's like a remix, but it's like a house remix of it. And this song is playing. Everybody's getting their life and the DJ. Without warning, in Prince's controversy. And this moment happened where the room left the like literally we all jumped at the same [00:17:00] time because it was the downbeat of the song.

And then it was the upbeat of like controversy, just like slamming in. We all jumped. I will never forget just that moment of us like. Oh, oh, we're doing this. We're together now we're, we're family.

'Cause then I know that you see when somebody steps to the left and they do a spin, you like, oh, I see that. I see that. Can I do that? Yes. Gimme a minute. I'm gonna do it next.

Marcus Borders: Yeah, definitely. That's, that's the biggest thing. And so physically I try to cater to my mobility. It's like that with skating. So I, when people talk, ask me about skating, I. Tell them I can skate. Now, I'm not aging myself in saying that I'm old, but I'll use the example of like, I'm like a classic Lincoln or a classic Cadillac.

I'm slow off the line, but once I go, I'm, I can be fast and I'm smooth, but don't, I'm not out there doing back flips. I'm not doing splits. Um, so the same thing with line dancing. There are very few dances that I'll get out there and really [00:18:00] add my own spin to it. I kind of do the, what some we call extra just because I,

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Marcus Borders: I don't want to end up in the hospital.

Jay Ray: Yes.

Marcus Borders: my ankles, I trust my knees, but the times when I'm am able to add that extra flavor of flare and or I can catch and it fits into my rhythm,

Jay Ray: Hmm.

Marcus Borders: a magical feeling I feel like that is what. Is baked into that freedom that I've been speaking about and kind of the comradery aspect of it.

I'll even give you an example of last night's experience of me line dancing. Um, they'll place, uh, like it's one of the, uh. Line dance is called Chugga Chug. I can't think of the name of the song that it's played to, but that's the dance

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Marcus Borders: Me. And this wasn't the only one you were hear, it's it's, it's like juveniles back that ass up

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Marcus Borders: where you, you know, dance floor and you'll see people just run to the floor

Jay Ray: Yes.

Marcus Borders: So. Depending on the line dances, it could be maybe five folks just kind of standing around, maybe doing a little dance. You play a certain song and you see 50 people come from all directions and they either feel the floor or they get up in a line [00:19:00] and we just all, it starts all in sync. It's like a little snake motion.

Jay Ray: Wow.

Sir Daniel: Wow. Talk to I, I, listen, I believe it. I I can see it in the people's faces.

Atlanta Energy and Joy

Sir Daniel: Talk to us about how Atlanta. The room

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: you are, you know, clearly you are Atlanta through and through. How does Atlanta show up for you? Exactly. How does Atlanta show up in spaces like this with you and what is Atlanta's, how has Atlanta been an influence on you and in the way that you approach, not just line dancing, but your love of music and you know, how you approach that area of your life?

Marcus Borders: So I think, I haven't done the studies of it to see its origins and things of that nature, but. Baked into line dancing in Southern soul. So I think it's inherent that being a southern boy, a man of the south, that I. [00:20:00] Love doing line dances because it's kind of a part of the culture there. Um, I won't say that I bake Atlanta directly into it, but it's there.

I'm trying to think of some moments where I've heard a little bit of Atlanta bass. Um, I think the DJ aspect of it is what kind of caters to it, because I noticed the, um, between the few DJs that I've experienced with line dancing. I've seen them outside of that space in their different formats and they couldn't go toe to toe.

It feels like it's 1995 during Freaknik, um, based on the music that they play. me and music and Atlanta will go hand in hand during skating. Skating is inherently Atlanta. Um, all day, every day I'll watch things on threads, Instagram, um, and Facebook. You'll see someone pop up and say, I wanna get back into skating.

And they live in the Midwest, somewhere where there's a rink maybe three hours away. And you might get an experience there. Atlanta, I can literally skate in multiple rinks seven days a week and not repeat the same rink and [00:21:00] have a likelihood of hearing a very good dj. And so for me, when I think of the musical aspect of it, I think of the DJs knowing the, uh. Again, we could talk for hours about skating, but within that aspect of there are different, uh, components and different styles like a TL riding and a TL stepping where you would hear certain Atlanta music

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Marcus Borders: with it. I think of movie a TL and what the skating movie, what, uh, that meant to the culture.

That is the truth. I tell anybody any night, if you go skate at Cascade on a Sunday night, you're gonna feel like you're in the, uh, the set of a TL because it really is like that. So. I can't say that I've really seen Atlanta itself break out in it, but I have seen its growth and I think the growth as far as the access to be able to line dance, trying to bring it back full circle, um. Has happened because of our political climate. Early on, Adrian, you mentioned how around 2024, um, it was kind of this [00:22:00] resurgence of it,

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Marcus Borders: think it has been amplified because of the last couple of years of just our political and social climate that we've been experiencing. And you will see the memes of, you know, chaos is happening in Washington

Jay Ray: Yes. Yeah,

Marcus Borders: enough to go to the grill.

Jay Ray: we,

Marcus Borders: We gonna

Jay Ray: we gonna get our joy somewhere.

Marcus Borders: And that's where I think being that Atlanta is, uh, I still call Atlanta a Black city.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Marcus Borders: Um, you've seen a prevalence of the line dances pop up. There's not, um, to the point where I try not to stray outside of my norm of where, of, of the parties that I go to because it will probably become overwhelming for me to keep up with the line dance crews, the groups, the DJs, and where they're partying.

I try to stick to what I know

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Marcus Borders: can get lost in it. It's just, um. I don't wanna call it a saturation of it, but the growth has really boomed, and I think it's because of the type of city that Atlanta is.

Jay Ray: Oh, oh.

What Makes a Good Groove

Jay Ray: There's so many questions in that, but, um, the first question I do want to ask, because [00:23:00] I think this is, you have alluded to this actually several times as you talk about both skating and line dancing from your perspective. Um, I'm a beat drop kind of dude. So like there are songs that just appeal to me, like I know if I like a song like, pretty quickly For you, what makes a good song to skate to and to line dance to?

Like what do you, what do you, what is that for you?

Marcus Borders: Okay. For me, skating, I am a slow set person, so I gave that metaphor of

Jay Ray: Hmm.

Marcus Borders: kind of, you know. I'm a cruiser. I skate smoothly. I'm not

Jay Ray: Yeah, yeah,

Marcus Borders: lot. Um, yeah, so, and I'm also a nineties r and BI, I say aficionado or connoisseur, uh, for the most part. And so you give me some Johnny Gill, some Keith sweat,

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Marcus Borders: some,

Sir Daniel: Some cut close.

Jay Ray: Yeah. Cut close. Probably is great to skate to.

Marcus Borders: [00:24:00] Some surrender. Some surrender. close. Yeah. You know, who can I run to,

Jay Ray: Okay.

Marcus Borders: maybe that's how the, the Atlanta gets baked into it. A little face, you know,

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Dancing Like A Game

Marcus Borders: You know, I'm thinking about our quiet storm moments. That's, uh, what speaks to me on the skating end, the things that drop, um, for line dancing. It's really almost like a video game for me. It's in the sense of, because. I've done so many, and some of the songs are not necessarily the, um, songs that you will hear often based on their genres or who made the songs. They may not be popular outside of line dancing. So I've lost track of associating a song with a dance.

Sir Daniel: Okay.

Marcus Borders: can I conquer that dance?

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Marcus Borders: a video game. It's can I achieve this? Can I, I saw them do that spin, can I do that spin? Or is there a normal standard way of doing it? So that's how um, the songs kind of hit me or move me. But I will say. There are certain songs, uh, that trigger nostalgia out of [00:25:00] me are, uh, you know, dare I say, there are favorite songs that allow me to really sharpen the knife of my skills, and that's both with skating and line dancing is I will run to the floor, I put my skates on just to see if I can do the same thing, if not better, to that particular song.

Jay Ray: Okay.

What DJs Should Play

Sir Daniel: Let's stay here with music for a second. Talk to me, talk to dj Sir Daniel and, and all of my DJ friends. What do you want us. Outside of the, so we, we know that when you go to these, um, to your group dance, group line dance, um, sessions and skating, we, we know that's what you came for. That's what the DJ is gonna give, talk to the rest of us.

Like in a, in a normal set, what do you want? Us to slide more of those, um, Southern Soul songs in there. Would you, are we playing enough line dances? Are we not playing? Talk to the, [00:26:00] talk to the DJs right now. Mm.

Marcus Borders: Yeah, so I'm thinking about a couple of events in the city that I've been attending over the last few years that are just solely supposed to be about the dancing. Um, not about the sections and all of that. Um, they can be hit or miss. And so for me, I know that I'm looking for if, like, if I go out tonight, it's Friday, and I go out to a club. Um. I just came to dance and

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Marcus Borders: I know I'm not the only one on the,

Sir Daniel: I just.

Marcus Borders: I'm not the only one that's on the dance floor, so I believe in fairness,

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Marcus Borders: we're probably gonna get some sort of contemporary, uh, hop, probably a little throwback to, you know, depending on who they're trying to cater to, they might go as far back as the eighties or the seventies down into the nineties on up.

Transitions And Crowd Reading

Marcus Borders: I don't take me on a haphazard journey. What I mean by that is I can see it with skating and I love, love, love. In Atlanta, our skate, our [00:27:00] skating rinks are spoiled with a lot of the DJs that we have. 'cause they do their crafts well. But I can pull up to a session and I can know when that DJ is trying to experiment versus trying to. F Skating is a very tough crowd to

Sir Daniel: Okay.

Marcus Borders: play a skating session like you do a club session. So there are certain moments, like after a slow set, you expect to do a slow walk or something a little faster after that long. To answer your question, Adrian, cater to your audience and be very careful with your transitions. Make them make sense. What I mean by that is there's a, I think, a very good and effective DJ kind of like. Johnny, what you mentioned as far as that experience of like the crowd

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Marcus Borders: up, that is a, to me, a rare moment that a DJ holds that power. Meaning that they may have sprinkled in a little bit of e experimentation, but they knew that they had the crowd based off of their reaction.

So don't be stale. Watch your audience. I think that's the key in [00:28:00] DJing is to watch your audience and to kind of shift as needed. Be, uh, going back be, when I say be careful with those transitions, I'm thinking about Apple's latest update where they try to call themselves to be like a mixer and they put like 45 seconds over the last song to match the BPM. I don't want to hear, I don't want to know halfway through the first song that I'm listening to, oh, they're getting ready to play juvenile. They're

Jay Ray: Right.

Marcus Borders: to play this because you have slowly trickled that other song in there. Just, just let the story breathe, let the music breathe. I think that's the best suggestion is let the music breathe.

Jay Ray: Mm.

Sir Daniel: Thank you for that

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Sir Daniel: in the communities. Yes. Thank you for that.

Jay Ray: Yeah, you said a word in there too, like, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's some, there's, there's some good ministry

Sir Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Jay Ray: you just said.

Sir Daniel: Transitions are so important.

Jay Ray: yes.

Hardest Line Dance Learned

Jay Ray: Um, so now, okay, so talk to me now, as a person who loves to dance, right?

Marcus Borders: Yeah.

Jay Ray: Um, it [00:29:00] has rhythm and could do all the, and could do the things, but line dancing, literally bog, like often boggles my brain. Ooh, before I ask this question, pause, is there a line dance that was hard for you to learn before we talk about me?

Marcus Borders: Yeah. so line dancing is like math

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Marcus Borders: I, even though I have an educational background, math is not my strong suit. And so my brain literally does this when I see dances for the first time, and I just kind of stand on the side like, Um, so I feel you on that. Uh, miss Tamias, the Tamia Shuffle.

Sir Daniel: Oh.

Jay Ray: baby, I saw that thing happen and I was like, now,

Sir Daniel: People, hell, there are people that that gives people hell to do a lot of times to, and that's like, that song is like, what, six years old now?

Marcus Borders: The song. The song is the, okay, so the song and the dance are actually old.[00:30:00]

Sir Daniel: Yeah.

Marcus Borders: I can go back. So I grew up, uh, my, um, mom has a, a friend, family friend. Their family's from Detroit, so they have all the stepping and everything.

Jay Ray: Yo, Midwest love, love, lover, stepping in the line day.

Marcus Borders: So I was at her birthday party. It was I think her 50th, and this was, I'm aging her, which. I'm having a brain

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Marcus Borders: Uh, this was probably back in 2014, maybe 2015, and I watched her and her family, they queued up to me as, um, can't get enough. And they were just out there shuffling and it just looked, you just, it looks like they were just snapping their fingers. That's just how simple it looked to them.

And I'm like, I will fall over everybody and knock everybody down if I try it. So. Fast, forward to, I guess, that resurgence that we were talking about earlier.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Marcus Borders: of 23 or

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Marcus Borders: and I was like, I'm tired of hearing this song at the club or at the bar. At the baby shower at the wedding, and I just have to sit on the side.

I won't end on it. [00:31:00] And it took me about y'all, it took me about a year and a half to

Jay Ray: Mm. Mm-hmm.

Marcus Borders: Um, and I think I'm segueing into

Jay Ray: Yeah. Yeah.

Marcus Borders: as far as

Jay Ray: Like how? Like how would I do it? Yeah.

Practice By Messing Up

Marcus Borders: I'm gonna keep bridging skating into it, that one of the keys to skating well is to skate horribly. First is

Jay Ray: Ooh,

Marcus Borders: with falling.

Jay Ray: you better. You better preach.

Marcus Borders: with line dancing, with line dancing, I had to be okay with. on people's toes or standing kind of off to the side so that I'm not, I'm, I'm tall, so I have a decent wing span. If I'm in the middle doing all of that, I'm going, I am gonna knock some people

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: Yeah. Yeah.

Marcus Borders: being okay with not looking like you have it together because a few things are going to happen. Re reputa, uh. Repetition is going to kick in and you, it's gonna become muscle memory and depending on how you learn, that's important for me because I don't learn by people saying, do it like I do it. But someone could possibly come over to you and show and who's watching you. 'cause nine times outta 10, somebody's [00:32:00] watching you mess up. They're gonna say, oh, step slowly like this. Instead of doing it fast like that. The way that I picked up the Tamia shuffle, there's um, an Instagram reel. And I to watch, uh, several examples, but this gentleman, he basically chopped and screwed the dance.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: All the way down.

Marcus Borders: and it was like a light bulb clicked, and ever since summer again, I think it was summer 23, I had it ever since, and it was just fine tuning and going back to what I said earlier, every time it happened last night and it's actually getting the Tamia shuffle is becoming one of 'em. Within the line dance, trail ride culture of kind of one of like the easy ones

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Marcus Borders: everybody knows it. And so last night when I heard it, I ran to the floor because there was my opportunity to sharpen my skills and to make sure that I still had it. And this is after this point, two or three years of just continuously doing it. So that's, that's how I got it, was. Looking awful in the beginning

Jay Ray: Yeah.[00:33:00]

Marcus Borders: saying, excuse me, I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. 'cause you bumped into somebody, you went, left when you should have went right. Um, kind of laughing it off, hoping that you didn't offend anybody. And then after a while, you, you realize that spin that you, that was confusing.

You got it. Or you realize you're not tripping over your feet, uh, like you were before.

Jay Ray: So you actually did, you have so eloquently, I'm sure, explained my hesitation. I do not like. I'm okay with messing up. That's okay. But I. When I'm dancing on the dance floor, I actually have, uh, I create my own circle around myself and I work very hard 'cause I'm a big guy. So I worked very hard to not encroach on anyone's space, right?

So I stay in my space. And the idea of line dancing yes, is if I go in the wrong direction or I spin or they're coming at me, or I come at them and I hit them, I immediately shut down. And I like want to go and like [00:34:00] cry in a corner. And you're like, no, give it a second. Like part of it's part of the experience. That's why I don't skate either. You also explain why I don't skate. I fell one time and it was like, oh, you gotta fall. Like get up and do it again. I'm like,

Marcus Borders: called

Jay Ray: no, I'm going to eat pizza.

Sir Daniel: Yeah, that whole, I, I'm at the age where I'm just like, I don't know.

Learning To Fall Safely

Sir Daniel: That fall especially falling on your wrist. Oh, especially, yeah. I think I think about it because I, I use my hands so much,

Jay Ray: Oh

Sir Daniel: the turntables and everything that falling and, 'cause I know immediately when you fall, the first defense is to put your hands out, to brace your, to break a fall or to brace yourself forth.

Marcus Borders: Supposed

Sir Daniel: They say you're not supposed to do that.

Marcus Borders: I fell, uh, not Tuesday this week, but Tuesday of last week. I have, uh, I'm not gonna show up, but a bandaid right here because when I was learning how to skate, I messed my elbows up. But one of the things about falling and paying those wood taxes is you have to learn how to fall.

And so if you [00:35:00] know you're gonna fall, you have to just kind of lean into it. I think the only thing that you should brace when you fall is your head and as far as stiffening up so it doesn't hit the floor, but everything else just kind of collapsed almost. Um, I. was something I was gonna mention as far as the dance Oh. Classes.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Marcus Borders: So, I felt the same sense of, I'll say embarrassment and fear of encroaching on people's because you see their freedom and their

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Marcus Borders: wanna mess that up. And to be honest, you can tell that you know the aunties, you will piss them off sometimes when you go left, they'll just kind of, alright.

Jay Ray: It's like spades to them.

Marcus Borders: You'll get

Sir Daniel: Oh, perfect.

Marcus Borders: too.

Sir Daniel: Yep.

Marcus Borders: been moved out of the way before. Um.

Sir Daniel: Get it from this table.

Classes Build Confidence

Marcus Borders: Yeah, that's where the classes came in at, uh, DJ Trail. Tsunami made the analog, and not just him, because there's, um, locked and loaded, that's another crew. They've hosted classes too, is those spaces being created that made it safe,

Jay Ray: Mm.

Marcus Borders: um, to mess up because it was kind of a low effort [00:36:00] environment to where, Hey, I'm gonna teach y'all all of these dances.

They know their craft. Not only are they effective as a dj, but they're effective as an educator. And like I. I keep shouting him out because he created that space so that I didn't have to tap into all of my other, I call them isms. My

Jay Ray: Hmm.

Marcus Borders: as far as being social, um, to worry about encroaching and infringing on people's environments, he made it safe enough for me to come in there, um, to where he's not embarrassing you.

If you mess up, are the, the people who are part of the crowd are not embarrassing you or making you feel a way because you didn't get a step.

Jay Ray: Hmm.

Marcus Borders: and he's giving you feedback on. How to correct something and he or he picks up, like he, he'll make a joke about the advanced crew. You know, they're doing the spins and the kicks when all you, all you're just supposed to do is clap your hands and

Jay Ray: Right.

Marcus Borders: we don't have time for that.

That's the AP version. Let's do it the regular way first so that everyone can pick it up. So that's really what. Um, made me comfortable, um, to go to like the club settings to where all they're [00:37:00] doing is just dancing.

Sir Daniel: Okay.

Marcus Borders: stand to the side

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Marcus Borders: what I've als, um, and kind of observe or what I've learned, learned or more so noticed is, again, can't, I can't tell you the, the name of the dance, can't tell you the name of the song, but most line dances and trail ride experiences have like the same seven to 10 steps. You know, it's, it's same combination, of movements just packaged differently for each song and probably at a different speed. And I noticed that I can pick up a dance that I didn't. I know just by watching the crowd, so long as it's not allowed to hopping and spinning, and I can jump in and get it pretty well the first time.

Now beforehand, before I started the classes last summer, I wouldn't have been able to do that.

Sir Daniel: Wow.

Protect Your Safe Spaces

Sir Daniel: You know, as we, as we begin to wrap up, what's coming to mind for me, what I'm interested to hear from you, Marcus, is I'm hearing a, a philosophy. I. For life. [00:38:00] So I want to hear from you, what has this experience, from the roller skating to the line dancing, what kind of philosophy have you developed for your life, where you are right now and where you want to go for the rest of your life?

What have you developed as your philosophy, your mantra, um, moving forward that dancing has taught you?

Marcus Borders: Keep your safe spaces sacred. Protect them. Um, going, you know, I, I've been taught, I've been married, I've been married to skating in this conversation. Um, and that's be because of how important it is to me to, and I mentioned as far as keeping it sacred or, or keeping, keeping it sanctity safe, uh, because I will schedule my day around. My ability to skate or I will schedule my ability around to go line dance. Meaning that if someone's like, Hey, can we meet at this time? Oh no, I have class at this time. Or, you know, I'm not inflexible about it, but I [00:39:00] will make sure that people know my patterns to the, uh, to the point, to know he's probably out line dancing or he's probably out skating. Um, your work will try to encroach or infringe on those things. And so I prioritize it. Um, we don't have even have enough time for me to dig deep into what. Both line dance and skating do for me emotionally, mentally, spiritually, and physically. And so that's why I think I put the umbrella term of protecting it above all of that because of how important it is to me, of what it does for me on a social level of me navigating, trying to meet new people.

Um, trying to come out of my shell in certain ways. Dancing overall allows me to shine in that way because a lot of people, if they don't know me, they'll look at me as, um. They'll pick up my introversion, but they'll think that I'm meek and mild-mannered, but I kind of light up on a dance floor, on the dance floor.

And that's, um, I like for that aspect of myself, um, which skating does as well. I like for that aspect of myself to be [00:40:00] seen publicly so that I'm not just looked at as quiet, meek, mild-mannered, Marcus.

Jay Ray: Hmm. Wow.

Sir Daniel: Thank you for sharing that.

Jay Ray: Thank you man.

Passing The Culture Down

Jay Ray: Um, so many things, uh, so I I, I, I think you have already primed and hopefully Marcus you will come back 'cause, okay. So Sir Daniel and I have an idea.

Marcus Borders: Uhhuh.

Jay Ray: hope you'll come back in person because you gonna have to teach me and the other cute points crew how to line dance something.

But we can also have this conversation because you actually picked up on something that was like, oh my gosh, I want to go here, but we do not have time to go here, but I want us to go here. And I think doing it in person, potentially in Atlanta would be a great way to have this conversation and continue it because. What you are describing is, I think, so important to, uh, Black folks communicating [00:41:00] and continuing to like be able to have these conversations. And these are languages, these dances, these experiences are languages that we can carry forward into the future. And I don't want us to lose it.

And that's why I'm like child, now I gotta line dance child because I gotta be part of the conversation and I have to teach it to, now I gotta teach the stuff to my little cousins. They gotta know.

Marcus Borders: And I think that goes back to the earlier question of the age aspect

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Marcus Borders: that's the beautiful thing is the resurgence of it pulled in the teenagers. I have my cousin, he's in college now. He turns, uh. He's either 18, he's 18 or 19,

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Marcus Borders: uh, he's seen me line dance at a wedding before and he will send us videos of him practicing. Um, so knowing that the kids are doing, I go to an elementary school and play certain songs and you

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Marcus Borders: babies just light up. So it is. Definitely a tradition [00:42:00] that's passed down and it's very interesting. Social media helps, but it is very interesting to see how these things continue on down to the newer dances.

All the way back to the electric slide are all the other cultural dances that we've had historically over the last several decades.

Jay Ray: Man.

Where To Take Classes

Jay Ray: so, uh, Marcus, if there is someone who is listening to this conversation and they're in Atlanta and they're like, I want to take a class, where would you send them off risk?

Marcus Borders: So they need to check out DJ Trael Tsunami page. Phenomenal dj. Um, kind of, uh, I won't put a placement on his format because he's like, he does every type of, um, music genre aspect as far as his format. But DJ Trael, T-R-A-E-L Tsunami, T-S-U-N-A-M-I, um, he hosts classes, um, even if he's not hosting a class, come out to his, his, uh. sets in his nights. Um, I was there last night. Um, it's a great, great spot. Another DJ that I know will host classes, or at [00:43:00] least he DJs at classes, and you can follow their social media platforms to see the flyers, is, uh, DJ Soufside, so DJ, S-O-U-F-S-I-D-E, DJ Soufside.

Jay Ray: Awesome. Ah,

Sir Daniel: I love that.

Jay Ray: connect with you?

Sir Daniel: Yes.

Marcus Borders: Social media, we're talking about the fun stuff. So, uh, just connect with me on Instagram. Instagram is still my place of choice, um, @quietasitskept. So Q-U-I-E-T-A-S-I-T-S-K-E-P-T.

Sir Daniel: There it is.

Final Thanks And Sign Off

Sir Daniel: Listen, thank you so much for sharing this part of your life with the Queue Points audience. Um, as I stated, this is a part of what we do. We celebrate Black music history and there's no music. There's nobody there to make dance, and this is all part of, it's just part of the bloodline of what this country is ingrained with.

Jay Ray: [00:44:00] Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: part of the bloodline, you know, from, I see them, they do line dances in the continent.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: do line dances all over the diaspora on the different islands, and you can't tell me that it's not passed down. Through our blood, our bloodlines. So thank you so much for sharing that with us and for helping us round out this Black History Month and um, you know, taking Queue Points on another adventure.

And just thank you. Thank you for being a friend. Borders.

Jay Ray: for being a friend.

Marcus Borders: forward to this conversation and glad to just share the joy that I get from, from being Black. That's just really what it is.

Sir Daniel: That's it.

Jay Ray: Oh my goodness, y'all, thank y'all so much for hanging out with us. If you can see all three of our faces and you can hear our voices, make sure that you subscribe wherever you are. Tell your friends, tell your family, tell your colleagues, because if you enjoy Queue Points, chances are they will enjoy Queue Points as well.

And it's a great free way. To, uh, support the show. Another way that you can support the show is by becoming [00:45:00] a member. You can visit our website at queuepoints.com become a member and you get some PS if you become a paid member of the show. And you can listen to all of our episodes. We have, we are coming up.

We are so close to 250 episodes. It's crazy. Sir Daniel, we are getting so close.

Sir Daniel: We are line dancing our way to.

Jay Ray: My goodness. And so y'all can check out all of those episodes. You can check us out on Substack. You can um, shop our store at store.queuepoints.com. We appreciate y'all and we love y'all.

Sir Daniel: It is. Like I say, in every episode in this life, you have a choice. You can either pick up the needle or you could let the record play. I am Sir Daniel.

Jay Ray: And my name is Jay Ray

Sir Daniel: That

Jay Ray: Dr. Marcus Borders.

Sir Daniel: and this has been Queue Points podcast, dropping the needle on Black music history. We will see you on the next go round. Now two steps to the left.

Jay Ray: Peace, y'all.

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