The Quiet Storm Era & the Decline of R&B: Amani Roberts on What We Lost

Greetings and welcome to another episode of Queue Points podcast.

I am DJ Sir Daniel.

And my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my government

as Johnnie Ray Kornegay III.

And um, sir Daniel, we are about to combine two things that we really love.

We're about to combine books and we're about to combine R&B, and

that is just magical with our guest.

what I love about our show, Jay Ray, is that for the

amount of years that we've been doing this show, we are slowly but surely

collecting our tribe and our guest.

This next gentleman is definitely a part of the Queue Points tribe

because not only is he a DJ.

He is also a professor of, um, of music, modern music, specifically

R&B music, and he's an author.

But I am so excited for our Queue Points listeners

to get to know Amani Roberts.

Absolutely y'all, so.

Listen, Amani Roberts is an award-winning music business professor,

internationally renowned speaker, professional DJ and USA today

bestselling author of The Quiet Storm.

A historical and cultural analysis of the power, passion, and pain of R&B

groups who educates music professionals on making better business decisions.

As a professional speaker for thousands worldwide, Amani has left an indelible

mark on audiences by combining music history, innovative technology.

And business education to spread knowledge on the business of music.

Throughout his illustrious career and hospitality in music, Amani has

trust, has been trusted by industry giants, such as chart metric.

Berklee College of Music and Yahoo Music.

His collaborations with these organizations, along with his master's

in music business education from Berklee College of Music, his education

at Scratch Academy, Los Angeles, and Howard University, where he earned a

Bachelor's of Business Administration and Hospitality Management underscore

his credibility and expertise.

Widely recognized as an authority in his field.

Amani Roberts leverages his education, his extensive experience and

education to provide the ability to see different solutions to problems

that have been hidden in plain sight.

His innovative approach combined with a deep understanding of the industry,

positions him as the go-to expert for music education in the ever.

Evolving music business landscape, and that has never been truer in

this moment, but Queue Points family.

Welcome, Amani Roberts to the show.

What's up sir?

What's up?

What's up?

Thank you for having me.

it's a pleasure to meet you Amani.

And no, seriously, I just wanna start off the bat because you are a DJ.

Um, you know, it feels like every single day I can't go a day.

On our, uh, social media and not see some real or some clip

from other DJ professionals.

Um, just discussing the certain things that are happening within

our industry, within our craft.

And it makes me wonder, you know, what do you feel like is the one of the most

pressing issues for DJs at this time?

I think because the bar to DJing is so low, anyone can buy

a controller, anyone can go on their computer and DJ, you know it, the noise.

There's a lot of noise.

And I think the ability to read a crowd is not something you can

learn by watching a YouTube video.

You can't learn that by DJing online, whether you'd be on, you know,

some of the streaming platforms.

And I think that that's the most pressing need, the ability to read a room.

And I would say number two is how to do a proper opening set.

What I learned being in hospitality is kind of the back of the house.

Like, you know, we show up to a bar, a convention, a venue we set up, we go.

But what I learned in hospitality is I work behind, I, I work behind the scenes.

So I've been rolling tables, I've been a bartender.

I've been a server.

So we understand everything that's involved.

So we have a certain amount of respect for the work that people have to do.

'cause they have to show up early, they gotta set up, they gotta serve

the people, they gotta stay late.

So that's not an easy job.

And whatever I can do to make it easy for them as a DJ, I'll try to do that.

Could be as simple as playing some music that they like during the

set so they can kind of vibe to it.

It can be keeping an eye out, so if there's certain guests that

are giving the staff a hard time.

You know, you kind of there as a, as a backup cycling during your set,

cycling the bar so that people who are on the dance floor can still show

the bartender love and get drinks.

Community is important and I met a lot of those people when

I took a course at Scratch Academy.

And I understand that you, um, did the same.

What was your experience like, um, going to the Scratch Academy and tell us

about your community, your DJ community.

Yeah, scratch Academy.

Um, you know, not to be cliche, but it was rather life changing,

you know, because it depends.

You need to have good people around you.

I

had a really close friend, Josh.

He, he, you know, one of my close friends in life, he went there first.

He came back and said, you know, Amani, I think you should go there.

'cause I was learning how to DJ at the time.

He said, I think it can help you become a better DJ.

And so if you have people around you that you trust, I said,

oh, if you recommend, I went.

So I went.

So Scratch was like the strong foundation.

Um, and then my community, like I'm talking with a lot of DJs

across the world, you know, the.

Only one of the few blessings of Twitch is I got to network and,

um, meet a lot of DJs during the pandemic through Twitch or whatever.

So I know people all over the world.

Currently in Vegas, we have a pretty tight community.

Actually, a bunch of us are working on this nonprofit now, camp Spinoff.

It's a DJ camp for kids music production camp for kids over the summer.

We used to have it before the pandemic, then we stopped and now our director,

Tina t DJ, Tina t, she's doing it again.

So I got a pretty tight community through that and just doing other gigs across

the world, like I can pretty much know a DJ in every city, every major city.

So that's my community.

Um, yeah.

Yeah.

And that's how we roll.

I love hearing these stories.

First of all, I love two, that two Js two DJs get the opportunity to like connect.

that community building is so critical and.

With the work that you've done over time, Amani, it's really interesting

because you did go ahead and write this really important book,

which does several things, right?

Of course you talk about your passion around R&B and sharing that, but you

also get into the business of the music,

which are, which sometimes gets left behind.

Like people either stick to one or the other.

And what your book does is it blends the two.

Um.

I want, we wanna hop into the book for, for a bit because, um,

there's so much here and I wanna read a quote actually from the

Okay.

Okay.

So we have to talk more about the Telecommunications Act of 1996.

So we're in the 30th anniversary of, of that right now.

But in that chapter, you say this, towards the end, the popular songs will

get the most ear traffic, and this drives up the value of an advertising spot.

Therefore, the radio stations are playing for the advertisers,

not for the listeners R&B group.

Singing about love and heartbreak does not fit the typical ad spots outside

of those for online dating companies.

I wanna, I want you to expound because, no, I think it's so important to, to

call out the thing because when we talk about R&B music, all three of us

have stories about the songs we heard.

How they were being played, et cetera.

But so much of that before 1996 was locally handled, the DJs doing this.

So I really do want you to talk about how this telecommunications

act really did aid in a lot of ways with the decline of R&B over time.

Um, yeah.

If you could, you could

wax poetic a little bit with us.

Yeah, the Telecommunications Act of 1996, it

was supposed to diversify radio.

It was supposed to make it make it easier for people to buy

radio stations, get on the air.

All the local radio stations, it had the exact opposite impact.

You had iHeart Media, town, square Media, and Cumulus Media buy up all

the radio stations domestically, and then they went to playlisting

And playlisting is the thing that really, really hurts local acts.

If we think about where you are, TLC got big locally in Atlanta first.

Boys, men got big locally in Philadelphia.

First, think about the group shy.

I heard them first on WPGC.

95.5 had a show called DC Home Jams.

They played them first, then they got to be astronomic and big.

Houston Destiny Child was big in Houston.

First we can list city by city and the groups and everything, but what that

act did is it took away local radio's, power audience, and when they go to

playlisting, you could be in Atlanta, you could be in Vegas, you could be

in Chicago, you could be in Seattle.

You're generally going to hear the same songs on popular radio that

you would, if we think back to like.

Early nineties, mid nineties, you would hear like R&B groups on main radio,

you would hear them on main radio, for example.

I remember I did this during my research, which was a lot.

There was a week in 1997 in July where 12 of the top 20 billboard, hot 100 hits.

This is the main charts that include all genres.

Were from R&B groups,

12, and that's RB groups over pop, rock, country, everything.

You fast forward 10 years later, 14 of the top 20 were hip hop.

But you could see how it shifted because then hip hop got to

be on popular radio and then.

What we really kind of ties with the point about advertisers don't really

wanna be advertising, talk about love and heartbreak is EDM Music.

EDM Music is kind of up tempo talking about partying and

life is good.

Bright things, bright things, you know, RB music can talk about some, you know, dark

things, heartbreak, you know, loss, pain.

So they chose to kind of flock to that for the advertising.

So that helped EDM music grow.

So it just was not appealing.

It is not appealing for some advertisers on popular radio

stations to really support.

So, you know, the advertisers go to where the money shifts.

What I couldn't include in the book due to editing and just some things is

if you look at the board of directors from all three of those companies.

You will see two people that look like us out of 36, I wanna say, I think

out of 36 on the board of directors.

And, you know, those are the people that de that dictate

the mission of the companies.

And if there are only two people that look like us, we, they,

people aren't gonna understand.

They're not gonna understand.

And so that's my long waxing poetic about that quote that you got.

No, that is absolutely critical.

And, um, I, I, uh, have told Sir Daniel this story, um, before I visited

Atlanta for the first time in 1997.

Right.

And I remember coming to Atlanta and my mind being blown about, I

was literally listening to radio and hearing no one that I knew.

And I was literally asking, so it was my, my friend's sister

who was driving us around.

I'm like, who's this?

And she was like, oh my god, that's witch doctor.

Who's that?

And then she was just like running off people.

'cause everybody that came on the radio, number one, that quality was together.

Those songs were unique to the area.

And my mind got blown.

And then of course I returned to Atlanta a a decade later.

And I'm hearing what I'm hearing in Philly.

In Atlanta and I'm like, when I first came here, that was not true.

I didn't hear any of what I heard at home

Yeah.

It really truly did make a difference.

And, and, and I wanna, I wanna hop into radio for us for a second because.

I listen to the radio every day.

There's never a a, a, there's never a day when the radio doesn't play at some point.

And I think people kind of minimize the power of radio, but I'm like, no.

You hear radio throughout your day, no matter what happens.

You describe in your book, right.

Like waiting for a song.

We know this, right?

We've all done it.

We're making a tape.

Remember, in the eighties when we was

young, we had to make a tape,

and so we are waiting on pause.

And I used to get mad because I hated when the word, like I didn't like that, so I

needed to start it earlier than the song.

So you had to anticipate things.

Right.

You described that, that anticipation that you experienced as a young

person sitting near the radio, waiting for the DJ to play.

You mentioned New Edition specifically.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh yeah.

And, when we think about this moment that we're in.

Sometimes the DJs aren't even from where you are, right?

Because the show that's playing is it is.

So it's not possible to build the same kinds of relationships

with our music and with our DJs.

From your perspective, what do you think we lose when we lost,

when that kind of disappeared?

away.

Yeah.

Yeah, because now shows are syndicated, so you could be listening to someone

and they're playing in every city, which is good for the particularly DJ, but

unfortunately it's not good for the local.

So just we we're losing out local acts, you're losing the ability.

One of my dream jobs is I'm a slow jam radio DJ, like Melvin

Lindsay, the quiet storm,

WHUR.

You call up, you call up, you say, I wanna make a dedication to whomever

you're recording or whatever.

I want you to play this song.

And then they play the song.

And then maybe you call up three weeks later and say, and

so you have a relationship.

Works and that's, that's different now also.

It's just, you could be able to hear rare cuts more so when you're listening

to these shows and that's missing.

So for example, I discovered Phyllis Hyman by listening to the Quiet Storm,

WHUR.

And that song, old Friend,

they would never play that song on the radio.

But that's how I discovered it.

You know, I think I discovered Shy Light's, old Girl from that show.

So it just, it, it, I wanna say the proper word is like ho harmonized.

I hope I'm saying it right,

but it just waters.

You know, it waters down the music that you're exposed to.

So then you lose out on finding the rare cuts.

Like you would hear Jodeci come and talk to me, but you might hear Jodeci,

you and I, that's my favorite song.

So, you know, they would play that on the quiet storm, but on the main race

they'd play just come and talk to you.

So you lose out on some of the rare cuts.

Think about all the rare cuts that you would hear.

So it really dumbs down the listener base 'cause they're only

exposed to a same set of songs.

That's what's missing.

And, and also including like the personalization and just the relationship,

like you knew, okay, 7:00 PM you're gonna hear Smokey Robinson, quiet

storm and you're gonna hear you.

You could, you could hang on that till midnight.

It's coming.

If you wanna call in, you could call in.

And I just think that that's missing and it's just unfortunate.

so I, I've, I still work in terrestrial radio, so everything, so

right now you preaching to the choir, I, this has been, this has been part of my

life for years as somebody that grew up listening to radio and now working in it.

And I will tell you there was a sweet spot where.

Uh, we still had that magic of the connection between the listeners

and the, the on air personalities.

And it's, you know, this, the, the, the, the, the cluster that I work

at now, because there's like four.

Four radio stations underneath our CL cluster.

Um, still kind of maintains that here in Atlanta because it is just one of those

stations that's just been around long enough to where you can still do that.

But I Amani, I'm feeling like one.

The, the culture and the soul has been gutted out of, of our music and radio.

I think it's, I think it was, it's been gutted and I think

it's been gutted on purpose.

Hmm.

Um, I feel like, to your point earlier, for monetary reasons,

of course, and people trying to sell ads and whatnot, but I also can't

help but feel like there is a parallel between what's happening with the

music and radio in general and what's happening now with our voting rights.

everything, like I really do feel like there is.

A, a, a concerted effort to erase everything.

Um, do, do you feel that, do you p, have you peeped that?

Is that something that's come up on your radar?

Well, what do, what do I say?

They may hate us, but they sure love the culture, you know,

I love.

and so and so.

So I say that I think, you know.

Songs are much shorter, songs are

less complex.

So they're kinda like dumbing, dumbing things down.

You know, try, try, they, they can try to erase things.

But the way the world is now, we definitely will.

I mean for we had like the underground railroad way back in the day, we

can definitely be creative and keep things alive, you know, it's just

that in the public it looks like they're era things, but there are

ways, there are people working.

I'm confident I have faith, but I will say like.

If you look at like, some of the songs, and I don't, I'm not like, you know,

angry old man, get off my lawn, but, but you know, if you just look at some

of the songs nowadays that are really, really popular, they're pretty basic.

They're, I interpolating a past hit.

So it's like we've just lost the courage to really do something different.

However, there are some artists.

That will release music that's different and I found that

radio is late to catch onto it.

I take, so one time I was DJing a wedding and they requested "Booed Up" by Ella Mae.

And this was the one time I put a song on and the entire wedding

was singing along and dancing.

Now that's a hit.

Now radio was very, very, very

late in picking up that song to play it on popular

radio.

It was more popular online, and this is pre pandemic, and so I just think

that radio is late and that song.

Not that complex, but still a good song.

Now, every once in a while we'll get a song that comes out that's

R&B that is kind of complex.

Like if you look at Kalani's Hit Folded.

Now that's a deep, that's a heavy song right there.

There's a lot going on in

true, that's a true R&B song.

You know?

So you have like that.

Um, if you think back to the early two thousands, I love

tanks, so maybe I deserve.

They don't really make those kind of songs that have subtle message.

Like a lot of times nowadays we just overt, we just

tell you we, we wanna have happen in a song.

You know,

think about back in the day they thought, they thought Prince was

crazy and he was being a little calm.

They thought Rick James, they thought Rick James was off the chain and

he was talking about Mary Jane.

Nowadays they just talk, they say whatever they wanna say.

So, but I think that goes to.

It's just being dumbed down, like what happened to the subtlety, what

happened to, you know, metaphors and, and hinting, but not saying

it that adds to the complexity.

So that's my, my long story, but I don't think, like, I understand, we, we have

serious issues with the voting rights.

They, they hate the people, they love the culture.

I still think there'll be ways.

For us to kind of get around or work through that.

We just don't see it yet.

Because if we compare today to what people went through in the

sixties, it's not night and day.

So

we just have to recapture some of that, uh, cleverness and courage and just

strength that was happening in the fifties and sixties to apply to today's era.

So that, that's kinda what I'm saying.

But really with the songs now, like.

Sexual healing.

Marvin Gaye, like, they'll certainly do a song that that interpols it,

but to have the lyrics that were in that song, it's just different now.

It's just different.

Yeah, everything is sped up, um, chopped up.

They'll take a phrase and chop it up and repeat it over and over and give it

a bouncier beat and you know, I get it.

That's cute.

Especially now for TikTok and things like that, I think.

Jay Ray, I think there's a lot of bravery that's missing.

I, you know, program, program directors, program directors were like, and

music directors were revered, you

know, at a point they were revered.

P, there was music days at the radio station.

Tuesdays was was our music day and you saw all the a andrs coming through the

street rep. Everybody would come through handful of CDs wanting everybody to get

a CD so they can hear what's new, what the new artists has been working on.

And the program directors were a lot, to your point earlier,

Amani Amani about pulling.

Album cuts and putting that into rotation.

There's just not, there's no break.

Sometimes there's just no bravery or their hands are tied now they

really can't.

Like you said that that corporate umbrella that you work under

Yeah.

really has you, you know, like tied up and can't make

a whole lot of decisions or, or break records like they used to.

So

it's, and I think that's why people are relying heavily now on.

You know, internet, radio.

That's why we, DJs are important when we do our live streams.

Shout out to new content to lj, you know, putting on his, that mix show

that he does, and we can get on there and we play any and everything

and people absolutely love it.

I have the pleasure.

I still work with, um, Joyce Littel, who is our,

our quiet storm maven here in Atlanta.

She is the queen of the quiet storm.

Just recently, she was asked to host the, um, a brand, a party.

It's not, brand new been around for a minute called slow drag,

and they play nothing.

They started out playing nothing but, um, seventies slow jams.

But when, um, they asked Joyce for.

Atlanta 4 0 4 day, um, festivity.

They, they expanded it to eighties and nineties.

And let me tell you something, there is still power to the slow jam.

There is still power to the slow jam.

And this is why I know where Ken.

Queue Points we have.

We've had a campaign called Slow Jams Can Heal us for a couple

years now because we still believe in the power of the Slow Jam.

And your book is called The Quiet Storm and just like.

Tell us where people can get the book, but I kind of, I want to

know like just off the top of your head, your five favorite slow jams.

Because Jay, we, we did a show where we, we, our listeners know

there's a difference between a ballad

and a

slow Jane.

Yes.

so they know.

So are we want to hear your slow jam favorites your picks.

Okay.

You can get the book at Amazon, any platform you order books, or you can go to

the quiet storm book.com and order a copy.

I sign it, send it to you.

Top five.

Slow jams.

Ooh.

Okay.

Because I have such respect and I feel this group doesn't get the

amount of credit they deserve.

I'm gonna say Slow Jam.

Number one is gonna be between the sheets.

The Isley Brothers.

The Isley Brothers, only group in history to have hits in six straight decades from

the fifties, sixties, seventies, eight.

That is amazing.

And it doesn't get talked about enough.

Okay?

So that slow jam number one.

Um, slow jam number two.

Can you stand the Rain New Edition?

I mean, you know, just like, woo.

On a perfect day.

But don't let me try to ing here, except that's one, two,

the, that's slow jam number two.

Um.

You know, I'm a big Tina Marie fan.

I'm a big Tina Marie fan.

Dear lover, dear lover.

Woo.

Imagine if someone were to write a song like that nowadays.

Did you?

She said, dear, just, oh my

goodness.

Like that song right

I hope this letter find you did baby listen.

come on now.

I mean, it's hard to do top five.

Okay.

I'm thinking, I'm thinking let's get to like the nineties.

Whoa.

Okay.

I do think I'll give Usher credit.

You got it bad.

Like that one right there.

That one right there.

You got it bad.

That's good.

I'm, I can go, I can't date five, but I'm gonna stop at five.

But like, SWV, like, ooh.

Oh my goodness.

which one?

I'm like, ooh.

Woo.

Weak.

This is the power.

This is why we be telling people this is the power of these songs.

We talk about this, uh, we've talked about this on the show where,

uh, these songs I was using, I statement gave me language, right?

So it taught you.

How this emotion felt, and then you start to realize like, oh, that's

what they were singing about.

That's what that song really means,

And it's okay.

Like it's okay.

to sing about love and heartbreak nowadays.

People are scared.

They don't wanna talk about it 'cause you know, we too stoic or whatever.

It's okay to put yourself out there and be like, you know what?

I love you and I'm sad that you're not here.

I miss you climax.

I miss you.

Like all these, these, all these emotions.

It's okay.

Like, um, people are more, as you said, you said this early on, people were

more courageous in the art that they shared and sing about back in the day.

Nowadays we're too cool, most of us to take.

Think about it or whatever.

So when we hear a song like Folded, we're

like, oh, oh.

She's like, oh, I got your clothes folded.

baby.

I Got Your Clothes.

Fold It and it's, it's not too cold.

I'm like, oh, that's, it's not too cold.

I'm like, okay, I like this.

Carrying on.

yes.

wrote

just wish it was longer.

So think about like, think about like, I wish it was longer.

So one of my favorite favorite musicians in life, Babyface.

So if you look at like, where will you go?

You have the prelude, you have, where will you go?

Who's gonna love you?

Like I do.

You have the whole song, good, four or five minutes, and

then you have the Postlude.

What happened to those?

You know, we could

use that on the answer machines and.

you think back, it just, it just shows you the power.

It just shows you the power of this.

We would make tapes.

Of 90 minutes of songs front and back, we would meticulously make

nowadays you could just do a playlist.

No,

no, no, no, no.

We're gonna make a tape, we're gonna blend it in, we're

gonna add special things, and then we're gonna give it to someone.

Man, Amani, this is, you are an absolute joy.

Congratulations and thank you for

writing this book.

So for everybody who is tuning in, make sure that you head to any of the

platforms and order the quiet storm, a historical and cultural analysis of

power, passion, and pain of R&B groups.

This music is so important and, and the, the, the stories and the history.

Of how this music has moved through.

Time is important, and Amani does all of that in the book Amani.

Where can folks connect with you on social media?

Where can they find

Yes, so I always love to direct people to my

website, amani experience.com.

If you're in the music business and you need some advice, you wanna have

a call, amani experience.com/call, and then my socials are at Amani

experience on like the platforms.

So just reach out to me, tell me where you found you or met me

and let's have a conversation.

Absolutely love it.

Y'all.

Queue Points family.

Thank you so much for, uh, tuning in.

If you can see our faces or hear our voices, hit the subscribe button.

Make sure that you subscribe to Amani.

So go and follow Amani on social media, and most importantly, go and by the book.

Thank you.

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We appreciate y'all.

We love y'all.

We absolutely do, and like I say, in every episode

in this life, you have a choice.

You can either pick up the needle or you could let the record play.

I am DJ Sir Daniel.

And my name is Jay Ray, and that is Amani Roberts.

Y'all.

And this is Queue Points podcast, dropping the

needle on black music history.

We will see you on the next go round.

Peace y'all.

Peace, y'all.