Faith Evans' Faith Turns 30: An R&B Masterpiece

Transcript

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[00:00:00] Disclaimer

Jay Ray: What's up, y'all? Today we're dropping one of our favorite moments from our live archive. If you want the full archive for Queue Points Live, become a member at queuepoints.com. We love y'all. Enjoy the episode. Peace.

[00:00:19] Intro Theme

[00:00:36] Welcome to the Show and Context

Sir Daniel: Greetings, and welcome to another episode of Queue Points podcast. I wish I would remember to take my microphone off mute. I am DJ Sir Daniel.

Jay Ray: And my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my government as Johnnie Ray Kornegay III.

Sir Daniel: So, um, this episode, Jay Ray, we are... We're stirring the pot a little bit. Just a little bit.

Jay Ray: Just a little. And- I think people...

There's probably a lot of people that are tuning in that will probably like, "I, I see this."

Sir Daniel: They never thought about it, and once you, you have a second to think about it, you'll be like, "Huh. You know what? You guys might be onto something." Well, Jay Ray, on August 29th of this year, 2025, that will mark the 30th anniversary of Faith Evans' debut album Faith.

Jay Ray: Wow, so you know what this means?

Sir Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Jay Ray: We are, have officially entered the Bad Boy era, the 30th anniversary of what we really constitute as like the Bad Boy era. So when we think about how Black music made this kind of drastic shift, Mark knows where we're going. Like- Mm-hmm ... it is a drastic shift in the way we saw ourselves, in particular in hip hop, but also in R&B.

Sir Daniel: Yes.

Jay Ray: This marks the 30th anniversary. 1995 would have been when that really started, and that's crazy to me that it's been 30 years since it

Sir Daniel: happened. Listen, I feel blessed that we were around for it and we got to witness it firsthand.

Jay Ray: Yes.

Sir Daniel: So, okay. So as Jay Ray and I typically do, we have these, um, these conversations that turn into these questions that we feel like you all might be interested in and probably never thought about it.

And before I make the statement or ask this question- Mm-hmm ... I want us to be very clear. Both Jay Ray and I are very clear a- that What's the 411 is a, is one, is an iconic album.

Jay Ray: Absolutely. It's

Sir Daniel: quadruple times platinum. It's probably more than that at this point.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: Um, Mary J. Blige is a once in a lifetime artist.

Jay Ray: One of one.

Sir Daniel: She's once in a lifetime artist. She is iconic in, um, on her own.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: And, but I guess the question that we were pondering

[00:03:18] Quick Transition

[00:03:19] The Question: Does Faith Wash What's the 411?

Sir Daniel: as debut albums are concerned- Mm-hmm ... is it just possible, just a little bit- ... is it possible that Faith, Self-titled, by Faith Evans-

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm ...

Sir Daniel: is a better debut album than What's the 411?

That's all. We're just asking. Just-

Jay Ray: Just- ... asking ...

Sir Daniel: just asking

[00:03:43] Breaking Down the Case for Faith

Jay Ray: I have thoughts, Sir Daniel. I have thoughts on this. So I, I think that it's important for us to recognize that Faith came in the shadow of- Mm-hmm ... the, the, the, the watershed moment that was Mary J. Blige's What's the 411, right? Right. Everything about R&B, for men and women, changed with that record.

And I think this question is valid because the same players that created that record, many of them were in the hands of this record. You know, it's coming from the same place, right? You know what I mean?

Sir Daniel: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm. So I am wondering if by the time Faith's debut happens, what we are hearing is the, um, the years' culminations of perfecting this sound.

Sir Daniel: Um, One of the th- thoughts that came across my mind in going over this show was that one of the reasons why Faith is possibly a better debut album than What's the 411 is because universally, it is

[00:05:23] My Life Is the Magnum Opus Argument

Sir Daniel: universally recognized that My Life by Mary J.

Blige is her magnum opus.

Jay Ray: It is. It's her masterpiece.

Sir Daniel: Is the absolute best album to this day. People, bar none, across the board agree that My Life is in fact Mary J. Blige's best album. So if so fact though, it could be, you know, it could be said then that Faith is a better debut album than What's the 411.

Jay Ray: Yeah. And, and to that point, and I... reason why I wanted you to mention that is because I think it's also important for us to land the fact that, you know, F-

[00:06:04] Faith's Connection to Bad Boy & Mary's My Life

Jay Ray: Faith was newly signed, so newly signed to Bad Boy, right? As My Life was being created, Diddy was off creating Bad Boy, but also still in Mary's, still in the Uptown stuff, right?

Right. So Faith Evans was brought in to work on the My Life record. Mm-hmm. You know what I'm saying? And, and contributing vocals and, like, all of this stuff. I'm sure some writing

Sir Daniel: as

Jay Ray: well.

Sir Daniel: Definitely writing.

Jay Ray: Definitely writing. Yeah, and so I am thinking that- This particular album, what I, what I appreciate about Faith, and I'm glad we're talking about it, 'cause one of the things we were talking about, y'all, is that we don't give the Faith debut no love.

We act like that record wasn't, like- ... an R&B masterpiece, okay? Yes. Like, and that record perfected in many ways all of the things that kind of Mary helped to usher in, but the Faith debut album kind of perfected it. And I think we should note, it's important for us to understand, just like with Mary's My Life record where Chucky Thompson's magic- Mm-hmm

made that record happen, Chucky Thompson's magic also made the Faith record happen, 'cause Faith was like- All over it ... "That's the dude I want to produce my record." Chucky, it was all over that. Shout out to Chucky Thompson. You know, rest in

peace. He was all over that album.

Sir Daniel: And see, here's a couple things that it kind of boils down to, and it, this resonates with a lot of artists in the music industry, people. When we talk about when it comes down to

[00:07:48] Vocal Ability vs. Star Quality

Sir Daniel: vocal ability- Ooh ... versus star quality. Mm-hmm. Now, hear me out. I'm not saying that one of these ladies has one over the other, although, I mean, it's pr- I mean-

it's pretty obvious of, of course Mary J. Blige is globally a bigger- Yeah ... star, a bigger presence, a bigger celebrity, okay? Yeah. Now- Faith Evans, Faith Evans ain't no, ain't no joke. She ain't no punk either. Mm. Right. Faith Evans we know that she came from, she comes from a gospel background. Mm-hmm. So she's got the vocal chops.

Um, Al B. Sure gave her her first shot. Yep. Um, r- as far as the writing- Singing, that mix. Yep ... and singing background. Yep. All of the things. Faith Evans literally was built for creating R&B music, cre- in the creative aspect of making music. Faith Evans was built for it. And then on top of that, she has a, an amazing voice.

Jay Ray: Yeah.

Sir Daniel: Now, I think where things got sticky, of course, and we could talk, we can talk a little history. Oh,

Jay Ray: the ru- oh, the rumor, the rumors.

Sir Daniel: The thing is, is that when you think about the messiest pers-

[00:09:01] The Mary vs. Faith Rivalry & Diddy's Role

Sir Daniel: the messiest person on the planet, it's usually a man. And that man, of course, is Sean "Puffy" Combs. Messy. Every- it's well known that a lot of the friction or even the comparisons between- Mm

Mary and Faith got started because, um, Faith was being molded in the image-

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm ...

Sir Daniel: of Mary J. Blige.

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel: A- and so, and so he, so with that happening, of course, you know, the tabloids like to run with the stories. Of course, there have been, you know, h- historically there have been many, many, many conversations about this, um, this mythological fight that happened- Yes

between Mary and Faith. And, you know, it's been dragged on for years until the women both got to a point where they could speak publicly. Yes. And they speak together and diffuse all the m- the myths about the past that between them. But I mean, you know, the... For all intents and purposes, Jay Ray, the two of them are completely yoked in this, in this game.

They've been, they've been aligned for, since the inception of their careers, and there's nothing that will take that away. They are con- they are going to be linked together forever.

Jay Ray: Oh, absolutely. So sidebar, remember the other messiness that they finally had to quash too was, like, um, there was this rumor back in the day, it was like Faith Evans was vocal coaching Mary J.

Blige. And that's why Mary sounded so good and bla. And it was like, baby, none of that happened. Y'all just, like, talking, making up stuff. Like, it wasn't a thing. I just wanted to... Baby, the rumor mills back in the day when, uh, Faith hit the scene as, like, a solo act was, like, a big deal. Um, and we're gonna talk about a thing that Diddy did To market Faith that I thought was very interesting.

So we are gonna get into that in a second. But two things about them being equally, about them being yoked and like together. Um, even when you... I had forgotten about this until I was preparing for the show, and I know that I mentioned it to you. I was like, "Oh, I forgot that Mary and her sister co-wrote Falling in Love with Faith on the record."

And I don't know how I forgot this because this version of Love Don't Live Here Anymore is an amazing version featuring Mary and Faith together. This thing is produced by, uh, Prince Charles Alexander and them. Mm-hmm. This version of that song is solid. Forgot it, forgot it happened.

Sir Daniel: Right. And that's, that's a shame.

Mm. But, um, yeah, like you were saying, they-

[00:11:45] Transition

[00:11:51] Diddy's Artist Rollout Formula

Sir Daniel: I want you to talk about the, the, the Diddy, um, what- ... the Diddy formula that he was doing. 'Cause if I'm, I'm thinking it's the, um, how do you say? The, the, the, the, the, the face being kind of obscured, that kind of, the kind of look.

Because for a long time we didn't know what Faith looked like. If you can remember-

Jay Ray: Yeah ...

Sir Daniel: they, all of the, all of the records that were put out, of course, were in these very generic, um, vinyl-

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm ...

Sir Daniel: um, s- uh, vinyl sleeves. Um, if the pictures came out, when that one picture came out of the album, it was an obscure picture- Right

and it was just like Faith's mouth.

Jay Ray: Yes.

Sir Daniel: And so, which is along kind of what, um, the, what's for, the 411 album cover is- Was very- ... is like Mary wearing that Glamour Shots hat- Yep. ... and pulled it over her, pulled it over her eyes, and you could barely- And it

Jay Ray: was very shadowy.

Sir Daniel: Yeah, exactly. And which is, which is a, a very, at the time, a very Diddy, formulaic- Mm-hmm

way of introducing artists to the public. So a- am I, am I in the ballpark or, with your theory?

Jay Ray: No. No, but you're, but we're, I mean, all of this is, is, is together, right? Mm-hmm. So I don't know, and I'm sure Faith has talked about this, I didn't research it before this conversation, um, because I didn't think about it as I was getting into this, but here is what I was thinking of.

I was thinking about this.

Sir Daniel: Mm. Oh, oh, yes, yes. Yeah.

Jay Ray: So Biggie... And so Faith is coming out. And, and so I think, um, I think, um,

[00:13:31] The Biggie & Faith Vibe Cover Moment

Jay Ray: You Still Love Me came out in, like, June. Um-

Sir Daniel: Yes, it was a summertime joint ...

Jay Ray: so it was the summertime. This was definitely a summertime record. And we then get to see what Faith Evans looks like, right?

So we, we hear the song, we get to see what Faith Evans looks like, and then all of a sudden we realize, like, oh, she's m- she got married to The Notorious B.I.G.? That's a, that's a thing.

Sir Daniel: Who was, who was sizzling-

Jay Ray: Who is red hot ... cooking right now. His album is a year, like, a year old. He is the biggest thing in hip hop.

He is that dude. And so this Vibe cover happens, and I had forgotten that this is how this was set up. Yeah. So this came out in October. There's actually two separate stories. So Diddy is just masterful. There's literally two separate stories. There's a Biggie story, and there's a Faith story, which actually, shout out to Emil Wilbekin.

Emil Wilbekin wrote the Faith story. And but they're, uh, they're photographed together, but they're, they literally have probably a smooth 10 pages of the magazine because there's the Biggie side of it, and there's the Faith side of it. And I was just like, "That, that Diddy, that Sean 'Puffy' Combs-

Sir Daniel: He who shall not be named

Jay Ray: he who shall not be named, knew how to like roll out th- an artist. And so now you have his, his, his big artist on his label, and now his premier vocalist, and they are also a married couple. Oh, and by the way, they also have projects out. It was just like-

Sir Daniel: Yeah. You know what? You're absolutely right. That machine, that was a well-oiled machine at the time- Mm

because poor Craig Mack, you know, God rest his soul- ... was caught up in this, you know, you got Biggie's fiery hot right now. And he was hot too for a second. Then- Oh my

Jay Ray: God, yeah ...

Sir Daniel: he was on fire at first, and then Big came along and kinda took the spotlight. And then to add more pressure, you got an R&B, the next R&B queen- Mm-hmm

um, come along and drops a very solid, solid R&B album that summer of 1995 because radio picked on, picked up on it so fast. Um, it was mid-tempo, so all the- Yes ... DJs were w-

Jay Ray: You could do the, you, there was the head nod that you could do. The- Back in the day, everything was a head nod.

Sir Daniel: It was a head nod, and all the DJs were blending the records.

I mean, she was fi- she was on fire on the mixtape scene. Mm-hmm. So it was just magnificent. It was a, like you said, it was a master class and a rollout for this particular album. And so y- you know, you couldn't go anywhere without seeing the Snipes of the, the, um, this Faith album. Mm-hmm. Who is Faith? Yes. You know, they- Yes

they used to love doing that. They, yep. Who is Faith? Who is this person? And find out, you know. And this was a lovely setup for, for Bad Boy Records. Yeah. It was an awesome time to be a Bad Boy artist. Well, only because there was like- Little did we know ... three, there was only three people at the time- Right.

on the label, and it was all good. And it, not for nothing, all three, these two women, not only are they linked professionally- But they both share, they both share like a, a, a, a nice amount of dubious- ... you know, kind of shady, shady things that have, you know, marred their careers over the years. Lord have mercy.

And they've all worked with the same amount, same people.

Jay Ray: Exactly.

Sir Daniel: Both Faith and Mary have worked with Whitney Houston, you know, have stood on the stage with Aretha. All the big divas that you can think of, they've all worked with them. Kelly Price, everybody. Yeah. And so when you're good, you're just good.

When you're a great vocalist, and you're a songwriter, and you know what to- and you're down to earth-

Jay Ray: Yeah ...

Sir Daniel: you can do those things.

Jay Ray: Yeah. I think that when we reflect on the Faith Evans record, you said something really important, and I wanna hammer this home for us.

[00:17:44] Quick Transition

[00:17:45] Faith as a Pure R&B Album vs. What's the 411

Jay Ray: It was a squarely R&B album. I feel like with the m- I feel like with What's the 411?,

too, um, what attracted us to that record is how hip hop it sounded, right? Right. Even though it was an R&B album, it felt very hip hop, um, in terms of the samples that they used, et cetera. Whereas Faith did that too, but I think the magic of Chucky Thompson was Chucky understood- Like, how to make the melodies kind of like sweet- Yeah

in a way. So you might have, like, a hard underscore or a hard sample under it, but Checky- Chucky understood how to put, um, these beautiful keys on top of things to make it just like a c- what R&B sounded like and what R&B needed. So I feel like as we're talking about this album, um, that's the thing to remember, is it was like- Yeah

it's a classic R&... It's now a classic R&B record.

Sir Daniel: So what I also remember about this is that Faith was a album that even our parents could get into.

Jay Ray: Ab, they could rock with Faith Evans.

Sir Daniel: Whereas What's the 411 had that parental advisory sticker on it.

Jay Ray: Yep.

Sir Daniel: Yep. Mary had a couple rappers on there dropping- Yes

you know-

Jay Ray: Grand Puba ... verses ... Mary was rapping on the, the,

Sir Daniel: the record. Mary was rapping on there. So, you know, she, she, Mary faced a lot of criticism.

Jay Ray: She did. But- Remember with the, the look and everything.

Sir Daniel: Yeah. It was like, okay, you know, what is she, is she going to, is she a hip hop artist? Is she R&B? You know, she took a chance, and that chance paid off.

Mm-hmm. Um, but and, and in her defense also, um, What's the 411 has three years on Faith. Absolutely. So Faith as an artist, um, constructing her debut album to be strictly R&B, in her defense was like, "Nah, you know, Mary got the hip hop thing covered. Yes, I've got, my beats have s- there's some beats in this, some swing to the records that are on here, but I'm going to bring you all a fully formed, a R&B album with a 1995 sensibility."

Jay Ray: Mm. 30 years, y'all.

Sir Daniel: 30 years ago. Do you understand? That's a lot of- That's a lot of pump it up hair jam and spray- ... and prom hairdos that, you know, that was going on. We went through, you know, straight back cornrows and- Yeah ... high top fades and everything to these records. So that's why they mean something to us.

Jay Ray: Faith has, we just, we already mentioned one earlier, has a classic remake in Love Don't Live Here Anymore featuring Mary. W- but there's another slow ja- Sir Daniel, that is so deep in, like, the slow jam cannon. It's in the hymn books.

It's in the hymn- It's in the hymn books ... this is how you make a slow jam. There is a song on that record, um, as well

Sir Daniel: Are we-

Jay Ray: Yeah, you, we can talk about Soon As I Get Home

Sir Daniel: Listen,

[00:21:01] Deep Dive: Soon As I Get Home

Sir Daniel: Soon As I Get Home is... You know how important Soon As I Get Home is? Soon As I Get Home is so important that they can make a parody song of it for, on a, as a gospel song.

Jay Ray: Yes.

Sir Daniel: Um, just it's in that canon, it's a quiet storm fixture. It gave language to women, especially Black women, um, about who are dealing, you know, they're dealing with this newfound sense of independence. It's the '90s. Mm-hmm. You know, they feel... They're being seen, they feel seen. Um, people are taking them seriously.

They're making a lot more money in most cases- Yes ... than Black men. Mm-hmm. And so black women are sh- struggling with this balance of, of being breadwinners-

Jay Ray: Yes ...

Sir Daniel: in their own lives, but also being soft enough to maintain relationships or to attract relationships to them. And so whereas, you know, where Mary is, is giving us, you know, her tomboy fits, and she's bopping, and she's- Mm-hmm

but she's still singing a sweet melody, you have the ladies also now have Faith-

Jay Ray: Mm-hmm ...

Sir Daniel: who is, who is completely softened, who is, you know, got the, the, the hair, the, the look, the whole look that's going on that would be attractive to both men and women. Mm-hmm. Women want to imitate it, men want to be with a woman like that.

She's light-skinned. All the things that work for her. All

Jay Ray: the things, especially in the '90s.

Sir Daniel: In the '90s. All the things that could work for you as a female or female artist in the '90s. Mm-hmm. And so her gently singing this, this, this yearning- Mm ... ballad o- you know, over a very simplistic, it's very simplistic.

Jay Ray: Yes.

Sir Daniel: There's not a whole lot going on in this song. It's just her, the melody, and some strings and keyboard, and that's it.

Jay Ray: That's it.

Sir Daniel: And you've been sucked into this, to this melody of Faith saying, "Listen."

Jay Ray: Just so you know-

Sir Daniel: It's on ... just so you know. It's on. It's on in the song.

Jay Ray: Jam. So listen, I think, where I think we've landed though, Sir Daniel, which is really interesting- Mm-hmm ... throughout this conversation, because I've been watching the chat, um, is- There's definitely love for What's the 411 that's like, you know, no, What's the 411, but there's a whole lot of love for people like...

But Faith, though-

Sir Daniel: Yes ...

Jay Ray: Faith perfected that thing.

[00:23:41] Transition​

[00:23:48] Verdict and Reactions

Sir Daniel: you know, we just wanted to pose the question to y'all. We ain't trying to start... I know y'all already think that we, that we, we have some type of vendetta against Mary. We do not. We

Jay Ray: love Mary.

Sir Daniel: We do not. We love Mary, but these are the types of conversations that we have here on, um, on Queue Points podcast, because that's what we can do.

We have these intelligent conversations about things that mean, are meaningful to us.

Jay Ray: Subscribe to us. Share the show with your friends, family, colleagues. If you love Queue Points, chances are they will love Queue Points as well.

I was at a doctor's appointment with my mom earlier, and she was like, "How are things going? I was listening to your podcast." See? You know what I mean? The doctor talking about she was checking out Queue Points. Mm. It's a lovely thing, so check us out. Um, so go ahead over to our website, queuepoints.com.

There you can listen to, like, all of our classic episodes of Queue Points and do more stuff over there, incu- including reading our blog and last but not least, you can shop our store at store.queuepoints.com and get yourself some fresh gear.

Sir Daniel: 2025.

Perfection. Listen, like I always say, in this life, you have a choice. You can either pick up the needle, or you can let the record play. I'm DJ Sir Daniel.

Jay Ray: My name is Jay Ray, y'all.

Sir Daniel: And this has been Queue Points podcast, dropping the needle on Black music history. We will see you on the next go round. Peace.

[00:25:07] Outro Theme